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Total Votes : 4 |
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| inresponse |
![]() Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 3:39 am |
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Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 162
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--- description ---
An aggressive new Selesnya deck, with playtesting reports and matchup advice.
--- end description ---
Guilds seem to be all the rage lately, and why shouldn’t they be? Each guild comes cusom built with a strategy to fit any player’s needs. Dimir has milling, Golgari has dredge, boros has fast, efficient beats and w/g has...
Saprolings?
How do you make a deck around that? It clearly has to be tribal, and there’s no fun in that, it’s too "Invasion" block.
However, saprolings aren’t the only thing this powerful guild can do, there’s plenty more. The other strong aspect of the selesna guild is its efficient creatures like Watchwolf and Loxodon Heirarch. These undercosted beatsticks prove that Selesnya can do more than make little 1/1 trees. Here’s a sample decklist I built, before any testing:
Creatures(22):
4 Loxodon Heirarch
4 Watchwolf
4 Selesnya Guildmage
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Iwamori of the Open Fist
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
Other Spells(15):
4 Fists of Ironwood
3 Moldervine Cloak
4 Devouring Light
4 Umezawa’s Jitte
Lands(23)
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Okina, Temple to the Grandfathers
4 Temple Garden
4 Brushland
7 Forest
6 Plains
This first draft performed well enough, but lacked in strength. There was a great early game that rivaled R/W’s speed when you drew a watchwolf and any of your big creatures. However, it lacked an early game otherwise. I would keep drawing cloaks, Devouring Lights, and large creatures in the first few turns. Also, against the control decks, I was struggling in the late game. There just weren’t enough creatures to do the work after they established control, and Iwamori would often give them a Kokusho, a Meloku, or a Keiga. Luckily, there were solutions. For the early game, I took a hint from r/w weenie and went with Lantern Kami. For those painful control matches, I found a surprise Might of Oaks could really do some damage, as well as Vitu-Ghazi, the City Tree, because it made creatures every turn that were easy to remove, but didn’t cost any cards.
After all my tuning was done, I ended with this build:
Creatures(24):
4 Llanowar Elves
3 Isamaru, Hound of Konda
4 Lantern Kami
4 Watchwolf
4 Gnarled Mass
3 Loxodon Heirarch
2 Iwamori of the Open Fist
Other Spells(13):
4 Fists of Ironwood
3 Might of Oaks
3 Moldervine Cloak
3 Faith’s Fetters
Lands(23):
4 Vitu-Ghazi, the City Tree
4 Temple Garden
4 Brushland
1 Okina, Temple to Grandfathers
1 Eiganjo Castle
1 Mikokoro, Center of the Sea
4 Plains
4 Forest
I have yet to try this deck out in an FNM, but when I do, I will post results. So far in non-tournament testing it has done well. The addition of Mikokoro and Vitu-Ghazi add a strong late game that can change games around. Gnarled Mass keeps the deck on the aggressive and fixes the mana curve quite well. As a bonus, neither it or Lantern Kami can be hit by Rend Flesh, one of the major removal spells used by black right now. remember that when choosing which creature to put your Moldervine Cloak or Fists of Ironwood on.
Two key changes are the inclusion of Faith’s Fetters over Devouring Light and the total drop of Umezawa’s Jitte. I like Faith’s Fetters because it is strong against R/W and MonoW weenie decks, giving you that extra lifeboost they don’t have while taking out a creature. Or, it can function as a Double-Jitte killer and force your opponent to have two Jittes or enchantment removal. Since just about noone plays enchantment removal in their main deck, they won’t be able to kill your fetters before you can kill their jitte in some ther way. Dropping Jitte from this deck is a metagame choice. If your field is mostly control, they will have cards to deal with Jitte like Fetters, shatter, or Naturalize. Not playing Jittes leaves you less vulnerable to this tactic and stengthens your chances against control. However, against agro decks your jittes can be the key to victory, and so can theirs. Without this extra way to remove theirs, you could be in serious trouble early on. I recommend at least 3 jittes in the board for the agro matches.
The sideboard has a lot of options. Naturalize is an obvious choice against Jitte, Anthem, and Moldervine Cloak, but there are many other choices too. An extra Faith’s Fetters against dragons and Meloku, Iwamoris and the 4th heirarch for weenie. But it is important to remember the obscure decks that often make a showing, but are hard to deal with if the appropriate sideboard tools aren’t possessed. Right now, the leading "Rogue" decks are Battle of Wits and Enduring Ideal. Both are enchantment based and both take a huge hit from Cleanfall or Tempest of Light (oops, i can’t remember if this is legal =P).
One option I’d like to leave you with is Glare of Subdual and Scatter the Seeds. Bringing these in against other aggressive decks can put an end to any thought they have of attacking. Also, this provides an answer to Jitte noone will be expecting. Jitte your creature? I’ll just tap it in the beginning of combat step...
Thanks for your time and your vote, if you have any questions about why I did not include some cards or chose certain cards over others, please direct questions to svgtech@gmail.com, or post below! You can also reach me at that email for deck help or any magic-related advice. You can ask for advice on other subjects as well, but I can’t say I’ll be of much help, especially if it’s girls... =(
Enjoy cardflopping,
Inresponse |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
![]() Posted: Sat Nov 26, 2005 6:31 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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A couple issues:
1) I just wrote an article about this kind of deck before you published this one. No offense, but I felt I gave a complete analysis of the deck, including a sideboard and what to sideboard in against common matchups, and your article could have used something similar.
2) Land choices- you shouldn't need quite so much pain from lands, and some of the legendaries aren't always needed. Normal plains and forests are just more consistant.
3) Gnarled mass- Obviously, you wish 8 copies of watchwolf could be played. The problem is, they can't! Substitues don't cut it, so you should try another angle. Try maybe glorious anthem or something.
4) you can beat agro, but what about control? This deck seems to be vulnerable to any sort of late-game combo, and without any buff cards beyond jitte, I don't know how fast you can end the game.
Good things- 1) I just love might of oaks, it completely slipped my mind.
2) Pretty well written- you definately know what you're talking about.
Good luck with that deck of yours! |
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| Guest |
![]() Posted: Sun Nov 27, 2005 5:09 pm |
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You did give a complete analysis of your deck, but I felt your conclusions were incorrect and your build subpar. I feel a sideboard the sideboard for this deck can change buy preference and, more importantly, by metagame, so I did not include a finished version. I did however clearly outline obvious choices and suggested ideas for dealing with decks that could be expected.
My land choices cause so much pain because I believe it is more important to have the correct color of mana in the early game, something difficult to attain with basic lands. Also, because of the five lands which produce colorless in this deck, it is more important to have more versatililty and consistency of color producing lands.
Watchwolf is a strong card and gnarled mass is generally weaker. However, it is not too uncommon to be color screwed on your second or third turn, and then it is very useful to have a 3/3 that can still be played with only one color of mana. Also, This card fits the curve of the deck and will often be no worse than Watchwolf. If you play an elf on turn 1, gnarled mass is better then watchwolf on turn 2 because of it's spirit status. You lose no mana in playing it unless you have another elf to play on turn 2. Watchwolf is generally better, but the gnarled mass has definite benefits, and is a good creature by itself, having a strong cost to power ratio. Just because there is a stronger creature in the environment doesn't mean good options shouldn't be played. I felt that glorious anthem wasn't strong enough without a large num,ber of saprolings, especially since I would usually rather be playing a creature than dropping the anthem.
I addressed control quite extensively, and even described the changes to my land base made specifically to handle it. On the Jitte issue, I said that in many cases it will slow you down in the control match-ups, where you waste a turn and a card playing and equipping just to have it removed before combat damage resolves. Also, agro decks have been winning without jitte for a very long time. Many of today's standard WW builds do not even play jitte, instead favoring suppression field to stop opposing jittes. The jitte issue is one that can be debated forever, and no one conclusion will be reached. The card is too powerful in general and has warped the metagame. |
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| T2_Fr33K |
![]() Posted: Mon Nov 28, 2005 9:15 pm |
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Joined: 28 Nov 2005
Posts: 32
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| Noticed you commented on the other selensya about lack of creatures, but you have less.... *awkward pause* |
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| inresponse |
![]() Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2005 12:22 am |
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Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 162
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his creauture count is lower. I have vitu-ghazi and fists of ironwood. Also, my creatures count as threats.
Please test this before you even compare it to the other decklist. The results are stupidly one-sided when compared. |
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| physcosick |
![]() Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 5:07 pm |
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Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 229
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| Compared to other articles, I like this one. As far as the deck goes, it isn't terrible. I think you need to focus a little more since you are running Faith Fetters in an aggro deck, fetters is a control card and does not really belong. I don't really like the Iwamori in the deck since there are a lot, and i mean a lot, but it is up to you really. And i guess it is also a meta game choice....... but I think you need to reconsider that. But it is a good card so I am not about to hold it agianst you or anything, just change those things, and you will have a decent deck. Other then the open fist, I really like your creature choices. Many people dont like Gnarled Mass... cough cough..... but I think it is awesome but it just hasn't been taken advantage of. I also like you choice of power ups, Might of Oaks is awesome..... as long as it has the Urza art..... GIANT SQUIRRELS!!!.... or the flavor of 8th..... not sure about the flavor in 9th.... your land base seems decent too.... good job. |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
![]() Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 6:40 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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| Assuming this is intended to be any sort of competitive agro (I'm pretty sure) you must run four, at LEASt 3 to have a chance to win. Anthem may help all those saprolings as well, and maybe that threatening llanowar elf thats so much more threatening than mine. |
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| physcosick |
![]() Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2005 7:32 pm |
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Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 229
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Elf just opens the doors for turn 2-3 plays. It is good to have it as an option but too many seem to be a waste of a card since late game you want to be drawing threats.
Elf is a threat...... its the best creature in standard...... when equiped to the jitte.
Glorius Anthem isn't needed.... I think his main objective is to just play beaters without wasting a turn and a draw to pump up the ones he already has.... he could be doing better things with his mana and turns... and draws. |
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