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Total Votes : 6 |
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| Ilvaldi |
![]() Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 6:53 pm |
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Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 59
Location:
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Quote: Of course, Fetters "kind" of equals Spree+Holy Day (just in essence, anyway, since it means stopping boring artifacts and living a little more), and this SB would mean having 2 cards instead of 1 to do this, but it would make the deck cheaper (so you could burn more and faster) and surprising.
Quote: Drop the fetters plz. Doesn’t belong in this deck, not even in the sideboard.
Quote: Is 22 lands a bit much for this deck?
7 plains is way, way too much for this deck, considering that its about 80%+ red.
You’ll have more than a few mana problems here
Quote: To Ilvaldi: yes, I do remember that deck at regionals. It was a U/W ideal deck that beat you in the 4-0 round, the deck that started your tanking. The thing is- your deck was playing some absurd amount of removal... (4 reciprocate, 4 devouring light, 4 wrath of god etc) and less burn than mine. Mine would be fast enough to actually damage to his head, so a 6th turn ideal won’t really hurt much.
Musco: Although I’m not a psychologist or anything, I believe that every time I played a fetter on my opponent’s jitte, my opponent would say, "hmm, oh dear. f***." Why? Because he has another jitte in his hand. If the fetter were instead a shattering spree, my opponent would gleefully play his second jitte and I’d say, "hmm, oh dear. f***." fetter basically reduces the need for jitte kill, as well any other legendary permanents (boseju, isamaru, kumano) from double to only single. Thus, you are open for more possibilities to play things in your deck. Not to mention, fetters is capable of stopping the unstoppable (ex: I fetter the moldervine cloaked watchwolf rather than destroy moldervine cloak)
The First: (see explanation above), If Grail fails to bring his WoG on time, the fetters will be his life support/stall method to give himself the extra time he needs to kill his opponent.
Arbitrary: If agree with everyone who posted on Grail’s WoG needs. However, If you all are going to piss and moan about it, I suggest you take into consideration: WoG is the only spell in Grail’s deck that has double colors in its converted mana cost. When Grail GETS his WoG, he’ll have to PLAY his WoG. When he drops down a WoG, his death is timely reset to be scheduled possibly within the next 3 turns (most likely due to a lower life total). This is enough time to burn his opponent to death, or drop a fetter or helix to recuperate loss of life from the onslaught.
Grail: Actually the match you’re talking about was when I was 4-1. No, he did not ideal for the mask. He played it. That situation was the equivalent of dropping a WoG on ten different zoo creatures. (see article on me at the regionals). I agree with everyone else that WoG is your life depending card. If at any reason you can’t play it in a zoo match, you’re screwed. However, I wouldn’t worry. From all of the games I played at JSS and Regionals, there were only three games in which I didn’t draw any one of my 4 WoGs in a 60 card R/W deck. |
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| The First |
![]() Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 8:08 pm |
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Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 195
Location: Anderlecht, Belgium
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Quote: Musco: Although I’m not a psychologist or anything, I believe that every time I played a fetter on my opponent’s jitte, my opponent would say, "hmm, oh dear. f***." Why? Because he has another jitte in his hand. If the fetter were instead a shattering spree, my opponent would gleefully play his second jitte and I’d say, "hmm, oh dear. f***." fetter basically reduces the need for jitte kill, as well any other legendary permanents (boseju, isamaru, kumano) from double to only single. Thus, you are open for more possibilities to play things in your deck. Not to mention, fetters is capable of stopping the unstoppable (ex: I fetter the moldervine cloaked watchwolf rather than destroy moldervine cloak)
The First: (see explanation above), If Grail fails to bring his WoG on time, the fetters will be his life support/stall method to give himself the extra time he needs to kill his opponent.
This is a burn deck. If there’s a Jitte, burn/destroy all/equipped creature(s) or Spree the Jitte. You can’t afford to "mess" around with a Jitte out. My Wur control deck uses the Fetters to control certain permanents(for instance Jitte  ). However, any white aggro deck like zoo or Orzhov can and should play with Koala. My control deck can handle that. Very risky to solve problems with Fetters in an "aggro" deck like this though. It’ll lose you 1 turn and push you into a more defensive mode.
Why is Glacial Ray better than Guerrilla Tactics? Simple. You can splice it on a Lava Spike to gain "some" card advantage, if you ever get the two cards toghether. Otherwise, there is little to no difference between them. Unless discard is popular in your meta.
Yes, Demonfire. Uncounterable, unpreventable and removes the creature from the game (if used on a creature). I’m not saying that you need to play 4 Demonfires, that would be a bit too many. But I found that adding 2 x-spell burn cards in a deck, makes you somehow feel confortable. What if you suddenly have to face a 5/5 flyer? The Demonfire can take him out for you. It can win you the game during late game...
Anyway, I never played a burn deck (be it only burn or burn and creatures) without a decent x-spell and I never regretted that decision. |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
![]() Posted: Wed May 31, 2006 9:56 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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If I’m up against a 5/5 flyer,
1) It’s a dragon legend which has an effect of sorts upon death
2) It costs 6 mana
3) I should be able to kill them and ignore their scaly pets. I’d rather just burn them to head instead of waste 5+ burn damage on one creature.
Why is Tactics better than ray? Simple. I want to play lava spike turn one. I have better things to do turn three (like flames of the blood hand and char) than splice and miss a one drop. The other thing is even if discard is only in 20% of the meta, that 20% will cause me problems. With tactics, a single tactics turns 0 burn damage into 4 at no mana cost, which basically makes me beat any deck with shrieking grotesque and/or ravenous rats.
Was it the 4-1 round? I remember in the 4-0 there was the enduring ideal guy who pulled mask, two form of the dragon, privileged position etc. (I think he pulled a mask anyway, I know he got the other stuffs)
I still say demonfire isn’t practical. It seems everybody wants me to spontaneously generate land by cutting the count and having 6 mana left for a demon fire. That simply isn’t very likely.
As for calculations for Wrath... I seem to have been out of stats for too long. I’ll figure it out tomorrow sometime unless you’d like to post how you found it. And anyway, as long as it’s over half, it’s easily worth being there, and I’m very confident it IS over half, be it by ten or twenty percent. |
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| The First |
![]() Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:09 am |
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Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 195
Location: Anderlecht, Belgium
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La_Sin_Grail wrote:
If I’m up against a 5/5 flyer,
1) It’s a dragon legend which has an effect of sorts upon death
2) It costs 6 mana
3) I should be able to kill them and ignore their scaly pets. I’d rather just burn them to head instead of waste 5+ burn damage on one creature.
Rathi Dragon and Rumbling Slum (even though they don’t see that much play) are 5/5 creatures as well for only 4 mana. And then, you didn’t even see my Graft deck
Anyway, if you don’t like Demonfire, great. Don’t put it in. A card needs to fit someone’s playing style. 
Quote:
Why is Tactics better than ray? Simple. I want to play lava spike turn one. I have better things to do turn three (like flames of the blood hand and char) than splice and miss a one drop. The other thing is even if discard is only in 20% of the meta, that 20% will cause me problems. With tactics, a single tactics turns 0 burn damage into 4 at no mana cost, which basically makes me beat any deck with shrieking grotesque and/or ravenous rats.
 I’m sorry. I think I forgot to quote that part (or to add a smiley). Someone stated that the Ray was better and you -I think- asked why. The "simple" was kinda sarcastic and meant in a minimalistic way. I just gave a possible reason that isn’t much of a reason. Glacial Ray isn’t that bad but I think that there isn’t much difference between the two cards. I would probably take the Tactics as well unless you add other arcane spells (but there aren’t any other good red arcane spells, no need to look).
I think that WoG is a good addition to this deck. It allows you to beat Zoo or Gruul with only 1 card (and yes, I forgot, it can also kill a 5/5 flyer  ). You just need to test wheter you get the two white mana in time. |
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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 5:06 pm |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2434
Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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| As I said before, I study Law, so I don’t quite care for math, you know... However, there is PROBABLY more than a 50 % chance of drawing a Wrath by turn 4. See, it goes like this: 4 in 60 cards means 2 in 30 and 1 in 15, so you’d have a 1/15 chance of drawing a Wrath AS YOUR FIRST CARD. But you draw a second one, and there’s one less card in the deck, so this means you now would have a 4/59 chance. This goes on until you draw your eleventh card, by turn four, and THEN you add all those chances together to get the final total, but since this is REALLY lame and I don’t have a calculator on me right now, I won’t do it... |
| I don't like YOU. |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
![]() Posted: Thu Jun 01, 2006 8:04 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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That’s not quite right. If it were, there would be no possible way to avoid drawing wrath in 14 cards.
In any case, yea, I think it’s a little over half, but I’m done with thinking in school for this year, so I refuse to do it out of the home when I can avoid it. Doesn’t really matter that much anyway. |
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| Guest |
![]() Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:25 pm |
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... read the philosophy of fire. it’s 2 percard.
how can you attend regionals without knowing about the most basic principles of magic? |
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| Cobra |
![]() Posted: Fri Jun 02, 2006 5:53 pm |
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
Posts: 1202
Location: Austin, TX, USA
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If you must be so rude, Inresponse, at least have the stones to log in so that the people you’re insulting can properly respond.
I don’t suppose there’s any chance we can get your old personality back, the one that posted all sorts of great stuff and argued logically instead of slinging mud?  |
| http://cobracards.com -- Web's best deals on Trading Card Games. |
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| Ilvaldi |
![]() Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 11:35 am |
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Joined: 06 Dec 2005
Posts: 59
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Quote: ... read the philosophy of fire. it’s 2 percard.
how can you attend regionals without knowing about the most basic principles of magic?
I don’t know who you are, but red decks have only one philosophy with fire:
Burn as much and as fast as possible.
Why must you choose to stay at a 2 percard level when you can jump to 3. If there is a sufficient amount of cheap 4 percard spells, then why not jump to that? In the end, 2 percard, 3percard, and etc. is not the philosophy of red. The real philosophy is to play the most efficient burn as possible.
How would I know this? Do I have an experience that backs up my words?
I play a red deck that can deal 40 damage within 12 turns, 20 on average of 5 turns, and, if I have a God hand, 20 damage in 4 turns. This deck also wins in a 5 person multiplayer FFA. Not to mention, it rivals w/ an illegal version of rav affinity. All the burn (creatures count as burn too) in this deck deals more than 3.
I also have tinkered with this deck for more than a year now in order to perfect its burn capacity.
Grail attended to regionals w/ an aggro deck. Thus, he could not be allowed to play any play mistakes. Don’t criticize him as a newb about his knowledge on gameplays and strategies, he knows what he is doing. |
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| Guest |
![]() Posted: Sat Jun 03, 2006 12:42 pm |
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I figured the account was banned. besides, any random should now the basic ideas behind this kind of stuff if they can win an article contest on it.
the philosiphy of fire is an article written by mike flores. 3 damage per card is impossible in the first place, since you have lands. unless you played only expensive cards, you would never be able to create that average number. read the article, then tell me I don’t know what I’m talking about.
playing an agro deck gives you less chances to screw up, but it does not mean you don’t have the opportunity. No matter what deck you play, you can always screw up a game. How did he do at his regionals?
P.S. I’ve played with Ilvaldi’s burn deck, and it does have a very nice burn average (although he didn’t mention the jets and shocks). It still has ball lightning, blistering firecat, and basically a ton of 3-4 damage burn spells. And it really does work with ease. |
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