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Rate this article!
| 5 (Best) |
| [ 3 ] 37% |
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| 4 |
| [ 1 ] 12% |
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| 3 |
| [ 3 ] 37% |
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| 2 |
| [ 1 ] 12% |
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| 1 (Worst) |
| [ 0 ] 0% |
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Total Votes : 8 |
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| mojo |
![]() Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:31 pm |
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Joined: 09 Aug 2006
Posts: 32
Location: your mom
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| why not put a one of a rumbling slum? he’s a 5/5 body for 4 and he deals damage on upkeep, granted it does it back to you but u have enough life gain to use him as a nice finisher. juast wondering cause he’s always been a staple in all my agro decks with his colors and he survives wildfire. |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
![]() Posted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:47 pm |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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Final Analysis: Incredible maindeck Zoo build with that minor fix. As always, a pleasure to talk decks with you, Felipe.
To above: slum is a powerful card, but it’s somewhat slow. As a 5 turn clock would indicate, it’s usually better to keep the curve lower and use turn four to play burn spells/finishers. Slum, while efficient for it’s cost, is easily chump blocked, and is a large investment. If they fetter slum, you’ve lost a lot more than if they fetter a mauler. |
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| Barry Gibb |
![]() Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:05 am |
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Joined: 27 Jan 2007
Posts: 15
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| Although you didn’t do an original deck and you didn’t have the best analysis of match ups. After just joining this site i feel those are not that important after the votings on my article. This is still a very good article yet not a 5 but def a mid to low 4 for my standards and by the rest of the people a 3. I am not going to be that crucial. I am grading as how i feel it should be. Next time do more about match ups and do relevant decks for those, then i feel you can get actual 5’s for sure. |
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| physcosick |
![]() Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 12:56 am |
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Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 229
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Felipe, you did a good job and you definetly did a lot of work and thought. However, your matchup analysis is lacking. Unlike c3po, i hold that as one of the most important things of a deck. Regardless of if it is meta specific, you still have to test against tier 1 and 2 decks and actually explain. Barry Gibb did that very well.
I was gonna give you a 4 but 2 people gave you fives. Now it was good and I think it deserves a 4 but not a 5 and therefore i can’t move myself to give you anything more then a 3. sorry, i would have given you a 4 based on your hard work, but theres is always next time, best of luck! |
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| inresponse |
![]() Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 2:05 am |
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Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 162
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That is probably one of the worst lists I have ever seen, grail. Nothing against you, but playing 8 anthems is more than any agro deck needs. playing 4 is actually more than any agro deck needs, and playing 19 lands with multiple 3 and 4 drops and no scryb rangers is fewer lands than I would care to play, even with 8 elves.
As to the actual article, I have one very large problem with the deck:
VESUVAAAAAAAAA
I am pretty sure you do not want to be playing this card, since it considerably hurts your mana base by coming into play tapped.
Also, honorable passage is pretty much the best option against dragonstorm, since you are putting a clock on them that is fast enough to bring them to 5 early enough to make your honorable passage relevant. Grail seems to think that dragonstorm goes off on turn 4 every game, but if that were true it would be dominating every single match up.
Slum seems bad at 4 mana.
Oh wait, I just realized I have one more problem with this decklist.
Back around states this year, people were building and playing with zoo, and this is almost exactly similar to their lists. I am sure, besides the split of 1/3 on magus/javilineers and vesuva, someone had this exact same list posted. Actually, Billy Moreno’s states era decklist from the Top8Magic Podcasts is only different by the previous and by the inclusion of a fourth call of the herd.
I wish your list was more original, but this seems more like a primer for an already designed deck. If you had treated it more like a primer I would have been able to give it a much higher rating, but as is it feels like you are taking credit for work you didn’t do, even though I know you probably didn’t get your decklist directly from people in the states era of standard.
Sorry man, but because of the vesuvas and the unoriginal list I think i have to give you a 2. You seem to be doing pretty well this month and I normally really like your articles, so good luck for this and next month! Sorry to do this so last minute.
INRESPONSE HOOOOOOOO! |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
![]() Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 7:30 am |
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Joined: 14 Aug 2005
Posts: 806
Location: Maryland
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Vesuva should duplicate flagstones of trokair to fix the mana base. Just throwing that out there- they go boom and search for a garden and a foundry.
Who’s deck are you talking about, inresponse? He’s got no anthems that I saw...
Grail seems to think that D-storm CAN go off T4. And that if you can win when it does, you have a guaranteed win.
Not that it’s really anybody else’s business, but can’t we leep the rankings at or above the belt (3?) Even though Barry decided my research offends him and let me know it, I still gave him a three for a decent article, and this one qualifies as a decent article. |
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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:07 pm |
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Joined: 18 May 2006
Posts: 2434
Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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| Well, inresponse, sorry if you think I copied the list, I really didn’t. So much that I wasn’t even using Watchwolf (I forgot about it while searching apprentice, and I took Boros as a base, so Soltari Priest was in its place) until LSG reminded me to. Also, well, you claim I changed the one drops, the proportion of Call of the Herd, and most specially, the mana base, and THAT’S what make this build work, and what makes it strong, and not inconsistent as its predecessors. Everyone talks about "Mihara’s Dragonstorm", because it packs storage lands and gigadrowse, but the idea was not originally his, now was it? Also, the article stated clearly that this was a revival of an old archetype, you wouldn’t expect me to "revive" something if it turned out into something entirely new. That’s not reviving, that’s creating a new archetype. I didn’t create an archetype, no I didn’t. But I DID "reraise" a dead archetype, making it competitive, and that IS something to take credit for. Anyway, about Vesuva, LSG pretty much said it, it raises my number of Flagstones. But if I need a color fix, it can copy a Sacred Foundry, or even a Gemstone Mine, so yeah, it’s pretty useful in this build, and it doesn’t REALLY hurt, being played as a 3 of. But other than that, I realize Vesuva is slow, but it serves the purposes of this build just right. |
| I don't like YOU. |
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| inresponse |
![]() Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 1:36 pm |
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Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 162
Location:
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I’m talking about the GW deck you posted after the article grail.
The goal of this deck is to win on turn 4-6. Playing Vesuva makes it impossible to hit your drops at each mana cost every turn. You normally play lions/ape, watchwold/mauler, burn, burn, burn, burn. Your ability to cast these spells on time is significantly decreased when your lands come into play tapped.
You claim a revival of a deck, but you say it is being revived from last rotation, when in fact it is just a deck that was played earlier this season with an unusual split at the 1 drop and a terrible mana base.
Also, giving a two is perfectly justifiable when I believe the article deserves nothing more. I am not going to give the article a 3 when I believe it was far below average on the list and very poorly researched. It’s nothing against Felipe, I happen to think he is one of the best contributors to this site because of his positive attitude. This just seems like an off month where he forgot to do the research his article required. I assume that next month his article will be much better, and I will probably go back to giving him the high ratings I usually do (when I vote at all). |
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| The First |
![]() Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:11 pm |
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Joined: 07 Oct 2005
Posts: 195
Location: Anderlecht, Belgium
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Hmmm... I would also like to give you an opinion. However, I might not be as neutral as I should be. I think that reading an article about Zoo decks is just a waste of time. Hundred of thousands of people probably played it, wrote articles about it and fine tuned it to their meta or have been netdecking it.
I am also quite surprised to see an article about it written in a template that would presume you are playing this as a competitive deck, especially in an environment that has two Wrath of Gods. All control deck either play black or white or will be playing it. Since Damnation is in an expansion set, I would argue that more people will be able to pull them and play them.
Another argument might be the return of Armageddon, be it in another color and 2 mana more expensive; Boom // Bust. I for one, will be creating a deck based on it. Probably with lots of artifacts, maybe chronosavant and WoG. And it can even be combined with Wildfire.
So, I actually doubt it that you "covered" the weaknesses of this deck.
What I also disliked, is to see the Giant Solifuge in sb. Maybe put some in mb. Diss the leylines. They are not worth the trouble.
I do like the Icatian Javelineers in this deck though. They rock. Another card that might be worthwhile in this deck is Bribery. I play it in my Gruul beats and it has almost never let me down. Ok, my Gruul beats might not be perfect at the moment but Bribery is aggressive and has that win-win feeling about it. I also like Keldon Marauders a lot even though Vanishing 3 would have made them playable. Now, I fear that they will be a bit dissappointing.
Anyway, I like the article and the enthusiasm you have about your deck but I fear that Planar Chaos could mean the end for this decktype. |
Great minds bleed alike.
Do not copy media. Support creativity. |
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| physcosick |
![]() Posted: Thu Feb 01, 2007 4:42 pm |
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Joined: 18 Oct 2005
Posts: 229
Location:
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| I’m confused... Bribery is neither R, G, nor W and it’s not even type 2 legal. It was last printed in 8th edition... mind clearing that up for me? |
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