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| corvus |
![]() Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 5:02 am |
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| My opponent plays wood elves or elvish pioneer. But i use counterspell on it effectively. Does the creature manage to activate its land-fetching ability before it goes to the discard pile? |
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| physcosick |
![]() Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:45 pm |
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Whenever a spell (or ability) is played (activated or triggered), it goes on a semi-complicated, imaginary place called "the stack". So he plays the wood elves and it goes onto the stack. Once the spell resolves from the stack, it comes into play, but before it goes onto the stack there is a priority rule. because it’s his turn he will have first priority. So he plays his card, then he has a chance to respond to his own card, if he doesn’t he passes priority to you, this is when you play your counterspell. Your spell goes onto the stack, on top of his wood elves. Priority will then manage it’s way back to your opponent, if he has nothing else to do, the stack will slowly start to resolve. The top card on the stack is always first to resolve, in this case your counterspell. It resolves and the wood elves is countered and goes from the stack to the graveyard. No where in this process does the wood elves make it near enough to the board to where it constitutes as "coming into play".
So no, if you counter a spell, it’s triggered abilities upon coming into play do not occur. |
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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:46 pm |
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Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
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As a simpler (but not entirely accurate, so more of a shortcut) way, when he plays Wood Elves, it’s still a spell (and that’s why you CAN counter creatures like Giant Solifuge, because the CREATURE is untargetable, but the spell that summons it is not), so if you counter it, it never became a creature, and, of course, it never came into play. Now, another question for our gurus, ’cause I’m totally lost on this one:
An opponent tries no initiate the Saffi Eriksdotter + Soul Warden combo, and I respond targetting the same creature his Saffi targeted, but with an Adarkar Valkyrie. Now, the Valkyrie’s ability specifically says the creature comes back to play UNDER MY CONTROL, while Saffi’s ability only brings it back to play, so whoever owned it, gets it. Since both those abilities targeted the same creature, what happens? I get control of the creature, and Saffi merely enforces that it WILL come back to play? Or is my ability "countered"? Kind of a tough one, I think... |
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| corvus |
![]() Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 6:05 am |
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| As per the stack thingy, i would say that the player who played his ability last gets the creature. Then the stack starts "uncompiling" (or discompiling or whatever) and that last ability is the first one to take place. Then, the creature comes into this guy’s control and the ability that was played first (and is performed last) never finds its target. Just my 2C, but i guess it also depends on the wording of each action... |
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| Cobra |
![]() Posted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 2:05 pm |
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Here’s my interpretation:
Both Saffi Eriksdotter and Adarkar Valkyrie are used while the third creature is still alive and well; they each create a triggered ability that hangs around for the rest of the turn.
When that other creature goes to the graveyard, both abilities are triggered at the same time. The active player (the player whose turn it is) puts his ability on the stack, followed by the inactive player. So the inactive player’s ability resolves first and brings the creature back into play. As corvus mentioned, this leaves the other player’s ability without a target, since the creature can’t be returned to play if it’s already in play.
If this is correct, then the answer to your question will depend on whose turn it is. You’ll want to make the combo go off during your opponent’s turn, so that your triggered ability resolves first and the opposing Valkyrie can be ignored. |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
![]() Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 5:36 pm |
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I’m not sure you’re allowed to target saffi with itself. I would actually bet you can’t because the moment you sacrifice saffi, he’s no longer a creature, but a creature card.
This is why the combo decks I’ve seen use crypt champion to reanimate saffi, then sac saffi for champion etc. to initiate the infinite loop. |
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| physcosick |
![]() Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:01 pm |
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| You cant because the sacing is part of it’s cost. Meaning that it goes to the graveyard before it’s ability resolves. That means when the ability resolves, the card is already in the graveyard. So since Saffi reads when it goes to the grave, or next time (not sure) it’s already gone so it doesn’t matter... u just sacced a creature. |
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| La_Sin_Grail |
![]() Posted: Wed Feb 07, 2007 7:54 pm |
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Yeah, that’s what I was saying, only in easier terms to understand. Thanks for clearing that up.
Grail |
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| Felipe Musco |
![]() Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 11:26 am |
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| He had two Saffis... |
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| Cobra |
![]() Posted: Thu Feb 08, 2007 12:25 pm |
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Joined: 12 Jul 2005
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Felipe Musco wrote: He had two Saffis...
Saffi is Legendary. |
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