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sickofpalantirs
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:46 pm
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 7750 Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
no I am incredibly confused
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NBarden
Posted: Wed Apr 11, 2007 6:47 pm
Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 5468 Location: I don't know...
What is the definition of discard? To place in the discard pile. So if a card is placed in the discard pile, it is discarded.
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sperzdechly
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 4:52 am
Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 131 Location: Warsaw (Poland)
Now you changed a topic a bit.

We’re talking about difference in triggering events of "killed" and "discarded". These are two obviously separate cases.

When a card is discarded it is placed in discard pile, when a minion is killed it is placed in discard pile as well - no doubt. Effect is the same, but triggering event is different. Like exert and wound, both effect in placing a wound token, but they’re different.

When Guard is killed it is placed in a discard pile, but it not trigger "discarding" effects, thus it cannot be stack on support area possesion.
sperzdechly
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 6:36 am
Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 131 Location: Warsaw (Poland)
One more example:
7C287 Mordor Guard

If what you say true, when we kill him in skirmish he would be discarded and threaths would be removed.

If what I say is true, when we kill him in skirmish he is placed in a discard pile (but not "discarded") and threats won’t be removed.

Now check it at LOTR on-line and prove me wrong Very Happy
NBarden
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 7:08 am
Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 5468 Location: I don't know...
LotR Online has so many bugs in it that you can’t trust it. They may be right, but I wouldn’t rely on them.

bibfortuna25 wrote:
Being killed is the same as being discarded for minions.
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What if the hokey pokey really IS what its all about? Shocked
As I lay in bed staring at the stars last night, I thought to myself, "where the heck is the ceiling?"
Arrow Spotlight on....Sense of Obligation.
sperzdechly
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 8:31 am
Joined: 05 May 2006 Posts: 131 Location: Warsaw (Poland)
In your opinion bibfortuna25 is more reliable source than LOTRO? In that case we can finish our discussion right now Smile

LOTRO is updated daily and most of the bugs concerning rules is patched in 2 weeks after release. Mordor Guard a is very old card, so its rulling is definitely a proper one. Thousands of players report bugs and keep an eye on every rule, many of them is World Class players, sanctioned tournaments are played at the top level. IMO it is one of the most reliable reference of LOTR TCG rulings.

And belive me - nobody would ever run a top level tournament, and certainly nobody would ever attend it, if LOTRO had so many bugs, you couln’t rely on it.
Felipe Musco
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 11:25 am
Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 2434 Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
AS far as I’m concerned, when a minion is killed, he is killed, not discarded. Cards like What Are They and Ithilien Blade discard minions. When the Free Peoples player stops moving, you discard minions. WHen you activate an ability requiring you to discard a minion, you discard that minion. When the minion loses a skirmish and you place the last wound on it, it’s killed, but since to maintain fairness there’s no dead pile for minions, it’s put in the discard pile. That’s not the same thing. In both cases, the end result is that you put them in the discard pile, but the REASON why you do so IS different. Also, CG asked why cards say "discard from play", and the reason is simple: to avoid confusion as much as possible, since "discard a card" has always been sued for discarding a card from your hand. Some "smart" players could try to activate an ability by discarding a minion from hand (thus not spending twilight for it, and such) in the approppriate phase, thus having "discard from play" written on cards is necessary. Now, I’ve been away from the game for quite some time, and as far as I know, Decipher has been messing up A LOT lately, so I can’t guarantee that there’s no card with just "discard" written on it when it should be "from play", but I can asure you that it shouldn’t say so.
On page 30 of the Black Riders rulebook, where they explain overwhelming, it’s pretty clear that minions ARE killed, just as companions, although they go to the discard pile so you can play them again.
Also, on page 7, where they explain "Killed", they AGAIN make sure to say that characters (meaning allies, minions and companions) are "killed", and then, for rules’ sake, they state that you place dead companions in the dead pile, and dead minions in the discard pile. Again, minions are killed, NOT discarded, when they lose a skirmish and are either wounded to death or overwhelmed.
On page 33, in "Free Peoples player chooses", they state minions are discarded under those circunstances, which is different.
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TheJord
Posted: Thu Apr 12, 2007 12:45 pm
Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 486 Location: UK
http://lotrtcgdb.com/community/viewtopic.php?t=3809

Anyone wanting to discuss this rule issue go hear.

On this deck I love it. Cheap death.
NBarden
Posted: Mon Apr 16, 2007 2:38 pm
Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 5468 Location: I don't know...
I finally got this deck. Geez its nasty. I was really irritating my brother with tons of maneuver actions, gaining 1-2 twilight each time around the loop, then i realized, OOPS! I spot 6 comps and have two pavises out to add to the twilight. Then I started throwing out 10 each cycle. My brother was really mad....and then he got REALLY mad when he found out he had to face 16 minions.
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What if the hokey pokey really IS what its all about? Shocked
As I lay in bed staring at the stars last night, I thought to myself, "where the heck is the ceiling?"
Arrow Spotlight on....Sense of Obligation.
Celebrimbor
Posted: Tue Apr 17, 2007 9:46 pm
Joined: 12 Sep 2006 Posts: 953 Location: UNKNOWN
What’s so cool about the infinite loop that Ithilien Blade can’t hurt it.
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