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| CarpeGuitarrem |
![]() Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 3:03 pm |
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 3361
Location: Franciscan University of Steubenville
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Okay, so we’ve heard a lot of talk about how T&D is a "broken set", blah blah blah. And there’s some merit to the claims. And yet, although I can’t claim this set is one of the best out there, it’s certainly not as broken as it’s made out to be. In fact, much of the set could, with just one or two changes, be perfectly balanced. Not even Frenzy of Arrows is an amazingly broken card (especially because of a little rules thing that everyone’s been overlooking). So let’s take a look at the cards that have been listed as "OP" on CobraCards’ Errata List...
Gothmog-Yeah, regroup ability is close to broken combo with Orcish Miscreant. With his warg, he can bear Rider’s Gear (this needs to be changed). But any sort of directed discarding or wounding will tank him immensely. Ithilien Blade kills him off quite handily, as does Eowyn wounding.
Frenzy of Arrows-Not as broken as it seems. If it was +2 for each follower, and no initial archery bonus, plus an  minion spotting requirement, that would be balanced. If you’re running 30 followers *cough*Broken ents*cough*, you deserve 60 archery coming at you! Furthermore, it’s easy to avoid. According to the Hunters rulebook, "While a follower is in your support area, it does not affect the game." So just leave your followers un-transferred, and all that the Shadow gets out of all this is +2 archery for each copy of Frenzy...and after sapping the twilight to transfer Saruman, they probably don’t have much left to pay the  of doing that. I think most people get hung up on potential disaster, and forget about the reality of things.
The Faithful Stone-This does need a limit, otherwise minions can’t fight at all. Or discarding the condition after the ability, that would be balanced.
Elven Armaments-Not overpowered at all. As Bib mentioned, the only archery worth playing in Standard is  archery. And we’ve got Mumak Rider to dump those armaments. Not to mention the fact that it cripples any sort of archery that the Elfies have. Which means they have to revert to Telepath.
Erkenbrand’s Shield-Agreed, this is a severely undercosted card, and for the benefit of all good shadows, it should be limited. Probably remove that fierce skirmish gametext.
Destroyers and Usurpers-The one thing broken about this one is the defender bonus part...because of the zero enforcement and such. Get rid of that, and I’m happy.
Perspective-Okay, this one is incredibly powerful. However, if the card specified three threats, I’d be fine with it. That’s a hefty cost to pay, and the threat limit enforces itself.
I think Whisper in the Dark was also mentioned...if we allow that followers can bear cards, and we limit this card to Freeps followers, and require it to spot a companion, it suddenly becomes less OP and more balanced...because-as I’ve already noted-the follower is not active until it is transferred. So this card’s gametext would only apply after the follower was transferred. (It really should say, "Each time bearer is transferred to a companion", and that would solve all the problems...) |
| Last edited by CarpeGuitarrem on Tue May 22, 2007 1:36 pm; edited 1 time in total"ok, change of plans. the Cobracards christmas party is coming to my house, and we’re gunna teach FM how to hunt." (mm) |
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| FortunesRazor |
![]() Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 3:52 pm |
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Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 181
Location: IN
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Good catch on the Followers! Have a GP.
I love elven armaments, and in standard it is probably not that bad, but in expanded I think it’s a little unfair. But you still have elven event which i think is what this card is designed for. Good weapons for the brothers and Glorfindel and Cirdan.
It should just limit the shadow archery, not completely deny it.
Oh and don’t forget about Faramir. |
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| sdpsc |
![]() Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 3:54 pm |
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Joined: 03 May 2007
Posts: 5
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I don’t think that follower ruling means they can’t be spotted while they’re in your support area, so Frenzy of Arrows would add 2 for each follower in play, whether or not they’re attached at the time, just like the bearer of Meneldor, Misty Mountain Eagle gains strength +1 for each Gandalf culture follower you can spot, attached or not.
Edit: Also, the game text of Meneldor says "to play, spot a (Gandalf) follower." Since (most of the time) no followers will be attached when you play Meneldor (during the fellowship phase), that shows that followers can be spotted for such cards whether or not they are attached. |
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| sperzdechly |
![]() Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 4:07 pm |
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Joined: 05 May 2006
Posts: 131
Location: Warsaw (Poland)
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CG - you’re wrong about Whispers and Frenzy. You can spot a follower in your support area.
Ruling you mentioned says, that follower’s ability doesn’t work, while he/she is in support area.
Example - Uruviel -> site doesn’t gain forest until you transfer her on the companion. But you can spot her to use Frenzy or Meneldor (as sdpsc mentioned).
Moreover, look at the Orkish Assasin. His gametext is a bit different and clearly shows difference in spoting a follower in support area and on the companion. |
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| Thranduil |
![]() Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 4:09 pm |
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Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 2256
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They’re right, I’m afraid. For the most part, when cards are in your discard pile, they don’t affect the game, but they can be spotted. Cards in the dead pile don’t affect the game in any real sense, but they can still be spotted. Followers are still in play, whether they’re transferred or not, and can therefore still be spotted, therefore making Frenzy of Arrows one of the most broken cards ever printed (with the notable exception of the new gothmog, who’s real issue is not his regroup ability, but the fact he has NO CULTURAL ENFORCEMENT WHATSOEVER, and, obviously, Mordor fiend which is by far the most broken card in the game).
Thranduil |
'We do what we do because of who we are. If we did otherwise, we would not be ourselves.'
- Dream of the Endless
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| Apopatos |
![]() Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 4:52 pm |
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Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 629
Location: Hellas
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Thranduil wrote: gothmog, who’s real issue is not his regroup ability, but the fact he has NO CULTURAL ENFORCEMENT WHATSOEVER
Why is so important to be culturally enforcement? Mount Doom’s one isn’t as well and is powerful too! |
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| Celebrimbor |
![]() Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 5:18 pm |
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Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 953
Location: UNKNOWN
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Could somebody PM me and tell me what OP means?
These abbreviations drive me nuts...  |
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Popcorn is not gooey like fat, and also not crunchy like potato chips, but crispy like lettuce which makes it a healthy snack.  |
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| NBarden |
![]() Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:42 pm |
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Joined: 28 Dec 2006
Posts: 5468
Location: I don't know...
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| Foresight |
![]() Posted: Sun May 20, 2007 8:57 pm |
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Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 557
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
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This could be best done as an article.  But you did make some good points there, Carpe. |
| In his eyes was the look of a hunted beast seeking some gap in the ring of his enemies. |
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| Thranduil |
![]() Posted: Mon May 21, 2007 2:19 pm |
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Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 2256
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Apopatos wrote: Thranduil wrote: gothmog, who’s real issue is not his regroup ability, but the fact he has NO CULTURAL ENFORCEMENT WHATSOEVER
Why is so important to be culturally enforcement? Mount Doom’s one isn’t as well and is powerful too!
The fact is, every single deck that wants wounds (which is pretty much every deck) could, and should, pack at least 1 copy of gothmog. Worst comes to worst, he puts 3 wounds on the fellowship, then dies, and that is the absolute worst. In any archery deck, he’s absolutely amazing, simply because he puts three wounds on companions just by being alive.
The mount doom gothmog is also too universal, but only works in a far more specific kind of deck. Any deck could use the new one, but only site control decks would use the old one. Cultural enforcement is essential, otherwise the game gets broken very very quickly, as we’re now seeing. This is also why most TCG’s have penalties for playing cards that are not of your chosen ’culture’. LOTR does, and should, not, but that just means you have to be extra careful when designing cards, and decipher have made little or no attempt to do so in recent sets.
Thranduil |
'We do what we do because of who we are. If we did otherwise, we would not be ourselves.'
- Dream of the Endless
Check out my block based on The Hobbit, my remake of Age's End, and the Fall of Eregion
Vote for your favourite Bilbo, Retired Adventurer(V) |
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