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| Hedgehog81 |
![]() Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:44 am |
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Joined: 08 May 2007
Posts: 104
Location: Italy
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CarpeGuitarrem wrote:
...Elven Armaments-Not overpowered at all. As Bib mentioned, the only archery worth playing in Standard is  archery. And we’ve got Suzerain of Harad to dump those armaments. Not to mention the fact that it cripples any sort of archery that the Elfies have. Which means they have to revert to Telepath...
Suzerain?  you mean Mumak Rider ? |
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| Apopatos |
![]() Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:54 am |
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Joined: 10 Mar 2007
Posts: 629
Location: Hellas
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After all, elves use to add many tokens, they rarely choke the shadow player’s hand. By having no archery at all, Galadriel is gonna have a rough time...
It’s fair! |
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| sickofpalantirs |
![]() Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 6:17 am |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 7750
Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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| interesting. but even you agreed that several of the cards needed erratra. I too ha trouble figuring out why EA is so good. |
 Sop's haves/ top wants
(mm)"SoP: you will always be the Official CC Spammer in my heart"
"DáinIronfoot"
Spammers really are amazing creatures. You can learn all there is to know about their ways in a month. And yet, after a hundred years, they can still surprise you.  |
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| Anvar |
![]() Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 7:21 am |
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Joined: 28 Jun 2006
Posts: 251
Location:
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Elven Armaments is a broken card. No single card should shut out an entire phase without any effort whatsoever. Saruman’s Snows was X-listed for similar reasons. Let me give some reasons why Elven Armaments are so bad:
1] If you are playing an archery deck and I play Elven Armaments on turn 1, your Shadow side has just become useless. Unless your FP can win the race, you will lose the game, and I can double or triple every site.
2] Not only that, but the game has just become completely unfun, as half your deck does nothing.
3] Yes, you can pack anti-possession cards, but now every archery deck will have to run at least 4 to be competitive, since Elven decks can run 4 Armaments. This dilutes their main theme, and will make them less powerful.
4] The only top tier archery deck may be Evil Men, but let us not forget the casual gamer who sits down to play with his latest Moria/Isengard archery deck. He sees Elven Armaments hit the table and realises his deck now does nothing. Do you think he will play LotR again?
5] No single card should completely crush ANY strategy. If a card said "No players can control sites", that would also be a broken card.
Anvar |
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| FortunesRazor |
![]() Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 11:14 am |
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Joined: 19 Apr 2007
Posts: 181
Location: IN
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That’s why Elven Armaments should make the free peoples archery total 0 and unable to be added to and not allow for archery special events
and should make the shadow archery total negative one. Not deny it to them. |
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| PorterTroll |
![]() Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 11:24 am |
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Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 1193
Location: not sure yet
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| I completely and totally agree with Anvar. This card is not only poorly designed, but it has the potential to shut down EVERY form of archery deck you can throw at it with realative simplicity. It will be simply thrown into every elven based (or even a deck with only one unique elven companion) for flawless protection against archery. One posession skips the archery phase? And theres not even an option of discarding it or having to exert to activate it or anything! These new T&D cards burn me up. D simply doesn’t care enough to give an effort anymore. |
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| Foresight |
![]() Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 11:29 am |
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Joined: 06 Feb 2007
Posts: 557
Location: Cedar Rapids, IA
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Anvar wrote: Elven Armaments is a broken card. No single card should shut out an entire phase without any effort whatsoever. Saruman’s Snows was X-listed for similar reasons. Let me give some reasons why Elven Armaments are so bad:
1] If you are playing an archery deck and I play Elven Armaments on turn 1, your Shadow side has just become useless. Unless your FP can win the race, you will lose the game, and I can double or triple every site.
2] Not only that, but the game has just become completely unfun, as half your deck does nothing.
3] Yes, you can pack anti-possession cards, but now every archery deck will have to run at least 4 to be competitive, since Elven decks can run 4 Armaments. This dilutes their main theme, and will make them less powerful.
4] The only top tier archery deck may be Evil Men, but let us not forget the casual gamer who sits down to play with his latest Moria/Isengard archery deck. He sees Elven Armaments hit the table and realises his deck now does nothing. Do you think he will play LotR again?
5] No single card should completely crush ANY strategy. If a card said "No players can control sites", that would also be a broken card.
Anvar
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| In his eyes was the look of a hunted beast seeking some gap in the ring of his enemies. |
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| sickofpalantirs |
![]() Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 12:36 pm |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 7750
Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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oh I see thank you for explaining it to me. That makes sense to me  |
Sop's haves/ top wants
(mm)"SoP: you will always be the Official CC Spammer in my heart"
"DáinIronfoot"
Spammers really are amazing creatures. You can learn all there is to know about their ways in a month. And yet, after a hundred years, they can still surprise you. |
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| CarpeGuitarrem |
![]() Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 1:35 pm |
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 3361
Location: Franciscan University of Steubenville
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Anvar wrote: Elven Armaments is a broken card. No single card should shut out an entire phase without any effort whatsoever. Saruman’s Snows was X-listed for similar reasons.
Interesting thought, but it doesn’t compute. Check out all of the following cards...
spies of saruman
anduin wilderland
what are we waiting for?
blood of numenor
the balrog, durin’s bane
cave troll’s chain
fill with fear
hillman horde
An interesting thing to note is that in almost all of the cases, which phase is skipped? Archery. And yet none of these cards were X-ed. Saruman’s Snows was X-ed because it skipped the skirmish phase, which is much more universal than the archery phase. If we’re going to X EA because it skips a phase, why don’t we X all of these cards as well?
I know that most of these are Shadow cards. Even so, what you’re saying about crushing a Shadow strategy also applies to the Shadow crushing a Free Peoples strategy. No Freeps archery? There went Aragorn’s Bow, Ranger’s Longbow and your Elf archery. Did you want to use Riddermark Javelin to take potshots at a couple minions? Tough luck. |
| "ok, change of plans. the Cobracards christmas party is coming to my house, and we’re gunna teach FM how to hunt." (mm) |
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| PorterTroll |
![]() Posted: Tue May 22, 2007 3:02 pm |
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Joined: 23 Jun 2006
Posts: 1193
Location: not sure yet
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Each of those cards can only be used to cancel one phase at most, and they each come with their own detrimental cost.
Elven Armaments, however, is not stopping archery while you can spot the balrog or while you control however many sites, it is stopping archery ALL TOGETHER.
Basically, one copy of this sucker in an elf deck (or even a deck with just a commonly used elf, say, Legolas?) will make it altogether invulnerable to any shape or fashion of any shadow archery. Its simply not fair.
Anduin wilderland is a site so it’s effect is only in play for one turn, and seeing as how it is not a shadows site, it can’t be abused.
What are we waiting for? has a catch, the shadow player can aviod the cancellation of their shadow phase if they want to.
The Balrog, Durin’s bane aside from the fact that nobody uses this card, is fair due to the fact that when you play it you must also discard all other minions.
Spies of Saruman plays on one site so it’s affect on phase skipping is limited.
Ummm...The cave troll’s chain has no effect that cancels a phase without the consent of the free peoples player, and seeing as how it is a shadow card, with it you can never simply decide to skip the phase without consulting your opponent.
Blood of numenor is discarded in the regroup phase so its abilities are limited.
Fill with fear only skips the archery phase when you can spot the balrog, and honestly, how often is that?
Hillman horde can only skip the archery phase while it is on the field and while you control two sites.
Of all of these examples you provided, none have the sheer power to simply cancel a phase for more that one turn, that is, except for elven armaments. |
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