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| Author |
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Who is Tom?
| Vala |
| [ 2 ] 10% |
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| Powerful Elf |
| [ 0 ] 0% |
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| Something else |
| [ 18 ] 90% |
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Total Votes : 20 |
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| Celebrimbor |
![]() Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:11 pm |
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Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 953
Location: UNKNOWN
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You ever wondered exactly who Tom Bombadil actually was? The hints, all drawn from the FOTR book, show that he is some kind of really old person.
A Vala? It’s possible he would belong to the order of the Valar, as it is said, "before creation, Tom was there."
A really powerful Elf. C’mon, could actually see Frodo when he made himself invisible with the Ring.
Besides these two possibilities, I wouldn’t know.
What do you think? |
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| Celebrimbor |
![]() Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:16 pm |
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Joined: 12 Sep 2006
Posts: 953
Location: UNKNOWN
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I voted some kind of Vala. What else could he be? After all, Elves didn’t exist before the creation of middle-earth.
Anyone there? |
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| Glamdring |
![]() Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:20 pm |
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 575
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| I’d vote Vala since he was "before creation." |
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| BattleWarg |
![]() Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:26 pm |
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Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 579
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Celebrimbor wrote: I voted some kind of Vala. What else could he be? After all, Elves didn’t exist before the creation of middle-earth.
Anyone there?
It’s been up 5 minutes...
Anyway, I’ve seen a number of discussions on this... While possible that he’s one of the Valar, we’d have to ask who. I don’t remember exactly where I saw it, but there’s only one that would make much of any sense - Aule. (based on partner = Goldberry)
I’ll admit I’m not great with the ancient history of Middle-earth, but there are some clues within LotR alone, though. If we assume that neither Bombadil nor Treebeard lied, then Tom is not alive or Treebeard is not aware of Tom (either is possible).
Further, Tom would have been there before even the trees and plants (another suggestion was that he was a nature spirit of a sort).
Thinking on it, he may be on the same order as Caradhras, a spirit of the world itself.
Note that not only was he able to see Frodo while he wore the Ring (who else could? In Hobbit or LotR) - possibly it was bright enough, but from Tom’s reaction it wasn’t just the shadow. Further, he was able to wear the Ring without becoming invisible (who else didn’t) - indicating that he was most likely quite powerful (and there’s little to make us doubt that), but there’s a more interesting part than that. The ring turned invisible by itself while he held it. Even Sauron didn’t do that, although assuming it’s that similar, Galadriel and Gandalf (Elrond, too?) did - so that may have just been a show of power on Sauron’s part. |
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| bobtheorc |
![]() Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:30 pm |
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Joined: 19 Mar 2006
Posts: 1218
Location: Wow, its hot in Iowa
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| bibfortuna25 |
![]() Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 9:38 pm |
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Joined: 05 Apr 2006
Posts: 615
Location: Springfield, OR
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| Tom is a Maia. |
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| BattleWarg |
![]() Posted: Wed Jun 06, 2007 10:01 pm |
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Joined: 11 Feb 2007
Posts: 579
Location:
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Yeah, that’s why people dislike frames...
On subject, it does answer it.
Tom Bombadil is...
An Enigma.  (See Tolkien’s quote) |
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| corvus |
![]() Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 12:26 am |
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Joined: 13 Oct 2006
Posts: 1696
Location: Roaming, but dangerous!!!
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bibfortuna25 wrote: Tom is a Maia.
Or is he? Why not a Vala? |
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| BattleWarg |
![]() Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 2:18 am |
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Joined: 11 Feb 2007
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Well, let’s start at the top...
Illuvatar?
J.R.R. Tolkien wrote: ’There is no embodiment of the One, of God, who indeed remains remote, outside the World, and only directly accessible to the Valar or Rulers.’
So... no.
Valar?
Tom Bombadil wrote: ’Eldest, that’s what I am... Tom remembers the first raindrop and the first acorn... He knew the dark under the stars when it was fearless - before the Dark Lord came from Outside.’
It is fairly safe to assume "The Dark Lord" to be Sauron or Melkor. Assuming Sauron, it’s completely possible. Melkor, however...
Book of Lost Tales wrote: ’Now swiftly as they fared, Melko was there before them...’
(refering to Manwe/Varda, the first Valar to enter Arda)
So, if all the (other) Valar came after Manwe and Varda, and Melkor beat those two, and Tom was in Arda before Melkor, he can’t be a Valar.
Maiar?
J.R.R. Tolkien wrote: ’The power of the Ring over all concerned, even the Wizards or Emissaries, is not a delusion - but it is not the whole picture, even of the then state and content of that part of the Universe.’
Fellowship of the Ring wrote: ’Then Tom put the Ring round the end of his little finger and held it up to the candlelight... There was no sign of Tom disappearing!’
Now, there are a number of Maiar in Middle-earth that we know: The Wizards (Alatar, Gandalf, Saruman, Radagast, Pallando) - we have no information on Alatar or Pallando, but Gandalf and Saruman are both strongly affected (Saruman without even coming in close contact with the ring), while Radagast doesn’t seem to be that moved by it. Sauron - he was affected, although in mostly intended ways. The Balrog of Moria - as far as we know, he wasn’t affected, however, we might ask what drew his attention...
So, it’s possible, although nothing says specifically...
An Elf?
Tom Bombadil wrote: ’When the Elves passed westward, Tom was here already...’
Doubtful, then, for the same reasons it’s doubtful that he’s a Valar (and in the same thing, if you can find a way that he could be an Elf, he could be a Valar)
Something else?
Silmarillion wrote: ’...in majesty they are peers, surpassing beyond compare all others, whether of the Valar and the Maiar, or of any other order that Ilúvatar has sent into Eä.’
Book of Lost Tales wrote: ’...brownies, fays, pixies, leprawns, and what else are they not called, for their number is very great... they were born before the world and are older than its oldest, and are not of it, but laugh at it much...’
Well, the first indicates that there’s something else of the same rank as, or better than, the Valar and Maiar.
The second does seem to indicate Tom, older than the oldest (Treebeard) in the world, and laughing at the world (Ring).
As a side note, another research (that Encyclopedia of Arda links to) that looks to be helpful is here. |
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| macheteman |
![]() Posted: Thu Jun 07, 2007 7:31 am |
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Joined: 07 Dec 2006
Posts: 1200
Location: The Jungle
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| from what i’ve read, and that isn’t a lot. i just assumed he was some sort of Driad. a spirit of the trees. but that could be all wrong. |
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