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| Anonymous Prodigy |
![]() Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 9:33 am |
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 4197
Location: United States
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On the Aragorns: AC’s is good, but I’d like to see a hunter bonus in there... plus, his ability is underpowered. Why exert him when you can just use Pathfinder instead? lem0n’s is neat, but I’d still like to see a hunter bonus. His text is great, though; sort of like No Quicker Path.
On the Frodos: AC’s seems overpowered. Stick a Hobbit Sword or Sting on Frodo, and you need a total of 15 strength to overwhelm him in region 3. lem0n’s is cool; the 11 resistance is nice, and his text gives you bang for your buck with the Ring of Doom.
On the Gandalfs: AC’s would work very well in a Three Hunters deck. lem0n’s is awesome! Compatible with any culture, and the muster is the icing on the cake.
On the Saurons: AC’s is very nice. If played near the end of the game, he would only cost a few twilight. And the "no other minions can be played" really balances it. Well done! lem0n’s seems to be a bit weak. If you’re playing against a small fellowship, you’d still be paying   for only a 23 or 24-strength Sauron. Killer against the Three Hunters with his damage bonus, though.
In review... on the Aragorns, I have to say that it was a draw. I preferred lem0n’s Frodo and Gandalf over AC’s, but AC’s Sauron was very well made.
It was a close decision, but lem0n gets my vote.  |
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| CarpeGuitarrem |
![]() Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:14 pm |
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Joined: 07 Apr 2006
Posts: 3361
Location: Franciscan University of Steubenville
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A very tough call, indeed. Sauron does indeed seem to be the swinging vote, although lem0n’s Gandalf could be abused as noted. Servant of the Secret Fire?
The one thing I don’t like about AC is his Frodo, which just isn’t fair. Still...his Aragorn was brilliant (with Green Dragon Inn, it’s an automatic Well-Traveled).
The thing about the Saurons, is that I can’t see lem0n’s being extremely useful. Three hunters is the only major deck I can recall that uses 4 races.
AC |
| "ok, change of plans. the Cobracards christmas party is coming to my house, and we’re gunna teach FM how to hunt." (mm) |
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| Thranduil |
![]() Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:42 pm |
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Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 2256
Location:
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AnxiousChieftan wrote:  •Aragorn, Longshanks 
Companion • Man
Strength: 8
Vitality: 4
Resistance: 8
Ranger.
While you can spot 2 Hobbit companions, Aragorn is twilight cost -2.
Fellowship: Exert Aragorn twice (or exert Aragorn once and spot 4 Hobbit companions) to play the fellowship’s next site.
First thing to note, I love how you can start with him and Frodo and Sam, but it would have been fantastically cool for his cost to be -1 for each Hobbit you can spot, possibly as his only ability. As he is, I think the fellowship ability could also be regroup without too much troubles, but I like the card.
AnxiousChieftan wrote:  •Frodo, Adventurous Halfling 
Companion • Hobbit
Strength: 3
Vitality: 4
 Resistance: 10
Ring-bearer.
While the fellowship is in region 3, Frodo cannot be overwhelmed unless his strength is tripled.
Apart from being a BA9 card, he’s very interesting, and surprisingly similar in theme to lem0n’s! I might be tempted to say region 2, or sites 6, 7 and 8 or something similar to avoid it, but it’s probably alright. Certainly a nice simple text with some fantastic implications.
AnxiousChieftan wrote: •Gandalf, Steward of Middle-earth 
Companion • Wizard
Strength: 7
Vitality: 4
Resistance: 7
While you can spot 4 Free Peoples cultures, each companion of those cultures is strength +1 and resistance +2.
Skirmish: Exert Gandalf and discard a Free Peoples card from hand to make a companion of the same culture as the discarded card strength +2.
I like the second ability, but I think the first might be too good. If it were just resistance or just strength, I think it would probably fine, or perhaps 5 cultures so you had to have all the fellowship.
AnxiousChieftan wrote: •Sauron, Base Master of Treachery 
Minion • Maia
Strength: 24
Vitality: 5
Site Number: 6
Damage +1. Fierce. Enduring.
When you play Sauron, discard each other minion. Then you may remove from the game X minions from your discard pile to make Sauron’s twilight cost -X.
Other minions may not be played.
This could go through your discard pile shockingly quickly, but I like him - very interesting. Could probably have had damage +2 without too much trouble.
lem0nhead wrote: • Aragorn, Defender of the West
Companion • Man
Strength: 8
Vitality: 4
Resistance: 8
Defender +1.
Each time Aragorn wins a skirmish, you may make another companion strength +1 and resistance +1 until the regroup phase.
Skirmish: Exert Aragorn to make a Man damage +1 until the regroup phase.
"But it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you; stand, Men of the West!"
I think I would have preferred knight instead of defender +1, then making the ability damage or defender in the maneuver/assignment phase, but I really like his first ability.
AnxiousChieftan wrote: • Frodo, Determined Halfling
Companion • Hobbit
Strength: 3
Vitality: 4
Resistance: 11
While wearing the One Ring, Frodo is strength +2.
" I have to destroy it..."
A fantastically cool idea (and certainly justified well), though slightly BA9, and I don’t see the reason for resistance 11.
AnxiousChieftan wrote: • Gandalf, Ally of the Free Peoples
Companion • Wizard
Strength: 7
Vitality: 4
Resistance: 7
Muster.
Skirmish: Exert Gandalf and spot another companion to play a skirmish event of that companion’s culture from your discard pile, it’s twilight cost is -1.
"But all worthy things that are in peril as the world now stands, those are my care..."
I would say this one was more balanced than AC’s, and I like encouraging events, and the muster is a good touch for this card.
AnxiousChieftan wrote: • Sauron, The Abhorred
Minion • Maia
Strength: 20
Vitality: 5
Site: 5
Fierce.
While you can spot 4 different races, Sauron’s twilight cost is -4.
Sauron is strength +1 for each companion you can spot.
Sauron is damage +1 for each free peoples culture you can spot.
"..the only measure that he knows is desire, desire for power..."
A very interesting Sauron, and I like it a lot. A strength 29 damage +5 fierce Sauron against the Fellowship of the Ring is somewhat shocking though, so perhaps some more balance was needed. Nevertheless, as a burrito it’s nice, though I think I would have gone for -1 for each race to keep in with the theme of the other two. This is also the kind of burrito I would have liked to see on a Gandalf, but never mind.
So overall:
Aragorns: I prefer AC’s as an interesting and fresh idea and felt that lem0n’s was perhaps a bit overcomplicated.
Frodos: I think AC’s is probably more balanced, even though it’s a worse at 9, but I like lem0n’s idea, and both are a bit too universally useful, as others pointed out, so no overall swing here.
Gandalfs: I felt that AC’s was probably too powerful and too much like a super-’leader of the company’, so I preferred lem0n’s.
Saurons: Certainly there hasn’t been any solo Sauron so far, and he would absolutely rock against solo Smeagol, if you spend a considerable amount of time discarding minions you can’t play, then play a huge minion for free, but probably not that useful. Lem0n’s goes from terrible to ridiculous as the number of companions increases, the problem I think being that races, Free Peoples cultures and companions are all inherently linked, so he gets very good very quickly. If he was a burrito on the number of FP cultures, he might have been more balanced.
Conclusion: I’m dragging my review out for as long as possible, because I don’t yet know who I’m going to vote for!  It’s unbelievably close, both fantastic entries, but I think I’m going to have to go for lem0n.
Thranduil |
'We do what we do because of who we are. If we did otherwise, we would not be ourselves.'
- Dream of the Endless
Check out my block based on The Hobbit, my remake of Age's End, and the Fall of Eregion
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| Anonymous Prodigy |
![]() Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 1:45 pm |
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 4197
Location: United States
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lem0n has a 4-3 lead, but voting does not end until Saturday. Dáin’s 2-point vote is going to be crucial.  |
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| sickofpalantirs |
![]() Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:25 pm |
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Joined: 23 Mar 2006
Posts: 7750
Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
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I loved both sets of cards, but lem0n’s awesome lore sold me.
AC even if your books were packed up, I assume you have seen the movies enough to remember SOME lines about our heroes. And you can always pull a big D and make up lore. There is no excuse not to have lore.
(except my mother died, I had to copy the cards at the hospital while she was on her deathbed and if I had added lore she would’ve died without me. thats about it  ) JK LOL.
Lem0n. |
 Sop's haves/ top wants
(mm)"SoP: you will always be the Official CC Spammer in my heart"
"DáinIronfoot"
Spammers really are amazing creatures. You can learn all there is to know about their ways in a month. And yet, after a hundred years, they can still surprise you. |
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| Anonymous Prodigy |
![]() Posted: Thu Nov 08, 2007 4:48 pm |
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Joined: 10 Jan 2006
Posts: 4197
Location: United States
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| lem0n’s lead increases to now. If AC doesn’t get Dáin’s 2-pointer, it could prove fatal. |
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| lem0nhead |
![]() Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 6:14 am |
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2981
Location: Blood Island
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Just a little note as people seem to be missing the point to my Sauron. All my following thoughts are based on average gameplay.
I figured most decks play 5 companions, cos of the rule of 5.
I reckon most people play 1 culture if they can match their RB to their companions. If its Rohan or something maybe they play 2 generally.
Apart from 3 hunters its not often you can spot 4 races. You’d probably need to play an orc and something else to spot enough races, cos i engineered it so shadow ones could be spotted, because Sauron is costly enough that if you can get a few other minions out you deserve the reduction.
So i weighed up those stats. On top of the base this makes him fierce 24 strength damage +1 or 2, for the same cost as the lord of the rings but without the enduring. Thats why i think he was balanced when i made him as i put some thought into it. A 3 hunters deck happens to be the only deck he really kicks off and thats just luck if you happen to 1. put him in your deck and 2. be able to play him against somone using that deck. Besides if you run more than 5 companions you deserve the smackdown!
Cheers
P.s. Whats BA9? |
Ban shampoo, demand real poo.
My Trade List and CC References
"Smart guy, especially considering his head is filled with lemon juice and seeds. That boy’s juicy brain is FULL of good stuff" ~ DainIronfoot
"No fair! And all I got was an oily unconscious steward!" ~ Pippin.
"Okay, stop me if you've heard this one. An elf, a man, and a dwarf walk into the Riddermark..." ~ Eomer |
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| Thranduil |
![]() Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:01 am |
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Joined: 01 May 2007
Posts: 2256
Location:
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lem0nhead wrote: Just a little note as people seem to be missing the point to my Sauron. All my following thoughts are based on average gameplay.
I figured most decks play 5 companions, cos of the rule of 5.
I reckon most people play 1 culture if they can match their RB to their companions. If its Rohan or something maybe they play 2 generally.
Apart from 3 hunters its not often you can spot 4 races. You’d probably need to play an orc and something else to spot enough races, cos i engineered it so shadow ones could be spotted, because Sauron is costly enough that if you can get a few other minions out you deserve the reduction.
So i weighed up those stats. On top of the base this makes him fierce 24 strength damage +1 or 2, for the same cost as the lord of the rings but without the enduring. Thats why i think he was balanced when i made him as i put some thought into it. A 3 hunters deck happens to be the only deck he really kicks off and thats just luck if you happen to 1. put him in your deck and 2. be able to play him against somone using that deck. Besides if you run more than 5 companions you deserve the smackdown!
Cheers
P.s. Whats BA9?
Bad at 9.
And I accept that, but I think he gets too good too quickly, because once you add another companion of a different culture, the chances are you have another race as well, reducing his twilight cost, increasing his strength and giving him a damage bonus all at the same time. If they were more unrelated, or a burrito of the number of races/cultures (’While you can spot X cultures... etc.’) then I think it would be more balanced.
Plus, you shouldn’t complain too loudly, as you do happen to winning!
Thranduil |
'We do what we do because of who we are. If we did otherwise, we would not be ourselves.'
- Dream of the Endless
Check out my block based on The Hobbit, my remake of Age's End, and the Fall of Eregion
Vote for your favourite Bilbo, Retired Adventurer(V) |
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| lem0nhead |
![]() Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 7:04 am |
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Joined: 02 Apr 2007
Posts: 2981
Location: Blood Island
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You made that up thats never a real term!
How is explaing my DC a moan? I aint complaining i was just trying to point out i didnt blindly create my Sauron without thought, i took time to balance him, which people seemed to be missing but hey ho it doesnt matter either way i still get a prize 1st or 2nd, im happy! 
Besides, not unexpectedly, AC’s cards are really good and pretty much match mine for thought process and ideas, so i was never under the impression it would be easy. Its turning into a good fight to the death. Hope we get more votes to make it really interesting. |
Ban shampoo, demand real poo.
My Trade List and CC References
"Smart guy, especially considering his head is filled with lemon juice and seeds. That boy’s juicy brain is FULL of good stuff" ~ DainIronfoot
"No fair! And all I got was an oily unconscious steward!" ~ Pippin.
"Okay, stop me if you've heard this one. An elf, a man, and a dwarf walk into the Riddermark..." ~ Eomer |
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| DáinIronfoot |
![]() Posted: Fri Nov 09, 2007 12:33 pm |
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Joined: 12 Jan 2007
Posts: 4594
Location: Beltsville, MD, USA
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Anonymous Prodigy wrote: Thranduil wrote: 
I’m not sure I want that kind of responsibility. Why me?
Thranduil
Because I consider you and Dáin to be the best "not-AC" dream card makers on Cobra Cards.
You all think FAR too much of me.  I’m just a simple DC maker trying to make some fun stuff. Oy.
Anyway, as for voting...toss my vote in with those who said that THIS IS HARD!  Do I HAVE to pick one? Can’t they both win?
Argh. Okay, let’s do this one by one....
ARAGORN.
Love ’em both, but I think lem0n’s is OP due to the easy defender +1. Had it lacked that, it would get my vote, I think. But as is, it overshadows other versions like Ranger of the North and ESPECIALLY Heir of Elendil. Not that AC just gets my vote here by default, because his is the type of Aragorn I think it’s CRIME we didn’t get from Big D.
So, for this one, I have to go AC.
FRODO.
Two nice, simple Frodos...refreshing in these days of crowded cards (including some of my own! ). I have fears that AC’s is OP, as others have noted, but lem0n’s seems a little more powerful than necessary thanks to the 11 resistance. I’d like it much better with 10, but still, lem0n gets my vote here.
GANDALF.
I would LOVE to get my hands on AC’s, but that’s mostly because, again, I think it’s a bit OP. I know 4 FP cultures isn’t an easy task these days, but I know I would certainly risk it if I could make them all strength+1 and resistance +2. Pair this with a few G for Grands, and you’ve got a POWERFUL fellowship. I LOVE lem0n’s, though I have some concerns about this being paired with certain events. All the same, lem0n gets my vote here, too.
SAURON.
Both are pretty specific. I like the rainbow fellowship hate of lem0n’s, but I think that most of the time, he’d be pretty weak compared to other Saurons. He COULD be huge, of course, but unless you’re going up against someone with, say, AC’s Gandalf , he’ll be much weaker than other versions out there. Speaking of AC, I’m not a real big fan of his since an early pull makes him a big hand clogger, but I think are more circumstances (especially near the end of the game) where he’d be the true terror the Lord of the Rings should be. So AC gets my vote here.
See why they should both win? I come up with a TIE!
I know, I know. I have to pick just one. *sigh* Okay...since I felt more convicted about the two cards I voted for from him than I did the two I voted for the OTHER guy, I have to go with...lem0nhead. Jeez, it’s close, though. I hope the eventual second place person gets a card or two out of this also, because they deserve it!  |
Best regards, Dáin, Vice Aftokrator of the Chosen Ones
Check out Lasting Alliances, The Road Ahead, and Ages of Middle-earth, three of my five dream card sets that make up Wars of the Ring. Oh, and I have a trade list now!
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