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NBarden
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 3:20 pm
Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 5468 Location: I don't know...
In these new Lorwyn cards, there’s a card type called planeswalker.

I notice that they have abilities like...

Lilliana Vess
+1: Target player discards a card.
-2: Search your library for a card, then shuffle your library and put that card on top of it.
-8: Put all creature cards in all graveyards into play under your control.

How do these work? What does +1, -2, and -8 mean?

Confused

Also, they don’t have a typical power/toughness, how do they work? They just have a number where power/toughness usually is. Me confused.

I’ve been interested in making a deck your opponent out deck, and Jace looks perfect, but I have no clue how it works.
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Felipe Musco
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 4:52 pm
Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 2434 Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
Ok, I figured this one would be coming, so let’s start out plain and simple. Lorwyn introduced TWO new card types to the game (ok, one HAD been seen before in ONE card from Future Sight, but anyway...), Planeswalkers and Tribals. Now, Tribal is considered a TYPE of card in and on itself (just read Tarmogoyf’s reminder text if you want to be sure), although you won’t see a card that reads: Tribal. They’ll be (for now) Tribal Sorcery, Tribal Instant or Tribal Enchantment (still no signs of Tribal Artifacts and Tribal Lands, although we may see some in the future). This allows Wizards to assign creature types to such cards, and was mostly created for flavor, so you can have Tarfire, a Tribal Instant - Goblin, in your deck, rather than having just a regular Shock. Why? Well, because this way, any card that says "search your library for a Goblin" or "a Goblin Card" can find this card. Effects such as "Destroy all Goblins in play" will destroy Goblin Enchantments. "Reveal a Goblin card from your hand" will allow you to reveal a Tribal Sorcery - Goblin. So on, so forth. In order to interact with this system, there’s now a keyword called "Changeling", which, put plain and simple, is "having Mistform Ultimus’ ability", which means any card with Changeling will ALWAYS be considered as having all creature types, even if the card is not in play. So, in any of the above examples, you could also find/get/reveal any card with Changeling, be it a creature, Sorcery, etc...
Ok, so this was the easy part. Now, for the "complicated" stuff.
Planeswalkers are ALSO a new type of card (read Tarmogoyf again), so Jace doesn’t read "Legendary Creature - Planeswalker", but rather "Planeswalker - Jace". This means that Planeswalkers are NOT creatures in any way, they’re another type of card like Creature, Land, etc... Planeswalkers, not being creatures, are not subject to summoning sickness, do not tap (unless you can "tap a permanent" and wants to do so for some bizarre reason), nor do they engage in combat like regular creatures do. They can’t be targeted by spells that target creatures. They also do not have power/toughness values, but ONE value, called Loyalty.
The Loyalty value printed on the card is there merely for when you play it, and then it’s ignored. A Planeswalker comes into play with that many Loyalty counters on it. Each of his abilities represents a gain or loss of Loyalty, according to the number stated, as a cost. To use an ability, the Planeswalker has to have at least that many Loyalty counters on it (they can’t have negative Loyalty counters at any time). Once a Planeswalker reaches 0 Loyalty, it’s put into it’s owner graveyard.
You can use Planeswalkers’ abilities at sorcery speed (meaning only during your turn, in one of the main phases, while you have priority and with an empty stack), at a rate of ONE ability per turn. Notice, not one use of each ability, but ONE ACTIVATION TOTAL per turn. Since they do not have summoning sickness, this also means you can activate them the turn they come into play. Their abilities are activated abilities, use the stack and can be responded to normally, for instance, by playing Trickbind or Voidslime in response to Jace’s milling ability... Wink (which will still make him bite the dust if he has exactly that many counters, after all, remember, removing/adding counters is part of the COST, not of the effect).
Similarly to the Legend rule, you can have any number of Planeswalkers out, but if two of them share the same subtype (for instant, two Planeswalker - Jace), they’re both put into it’s owner’s graveyard immediately as a State-Based Effect (meaning you don’t get a chance to respond to it in any way, as the game does not pass priority to the players). This will probably allow for stuff similar to LotR, like having MORE than one type of Jace in the game, although any two Jaces out at the same time WILL "kill" each other.
Planeswalkers ARE spells, and after coming into play they ARE permanents, but as I said before (and I can’t stress this enough), THEY ARE NOT CREATURES. So, you can counter a Planeswalker spell with a Cancel normally, but NOT with a Remove Soul. You CAN destroy a Planeswalker with Vindicate, but NOT with Mortify or Putrefy. You CANNOT aim a Shock at a Planeswalker, since it’s not a "creature or player".
Now, how do I stop Planeswalkers, then?
The active player can, during the Declare Attackers Step, declare which creatures are attacking the defending player, and which ones are attacking which Planeswalker that player controls (yep, combat just got even trickier, although not quite for a LotR player Wink ). The defending player may block them all normally, but if any creature assigned to attack a Planeswalker deals damage (due to trample or not being blocked, for instance), the Planeswalker loses that many Loyalty counters. Since the Loyalty number is NOT power or toughness, Planeswalkers won’t fight back, they won’t damage any creature which damages them in combat. A creature assigned to attack a Planeswalker won’t deal damage to the defending player under any circunstance, even if it has trample and more power than the Planeswalker has Loyalty counters.
Also, so as to not make Shock effects obsolete against them, if any player controls an effect that deals damage to a player, upon resolution of the effect, he may choose to have the damage dealt to one of the Planeswalkers the targeted player controls, making them lose that many Loyalty counters. The controller of a Planeswalker CANNOT choose to direct damage aimed at him to a Planeswalker, only the controller of the direct-damage source may do that, and damage is dealt as a whole, you can’t deal 1 point to a Planeswalker and 1 to a player by playing a Shock, for instance.
I think that’s all there is for Planeswalkers, but if there are any further questions, feel free to ask.

PS: Notice every Planeswalker has one REALLY overpowered ability, but they ALWAYS have a higher cost than they have initial Loyalty, making it tricky to activate, since it means the Planeswalker has to live through a few turns unscathed.
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elf lvr
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 6:20 pm
Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 3065 Location: Rivendell
Again, thanks for the explaination, Felipe. A GP for the mini-artice you wrote there.

Wouldn’t it be awesome to pull a planeswalker in a draft?

I’d die of shock.
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NBarden
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:09 pm
Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 5468 Location: I don't know...
Thanks! That’s cool. As of yet, are there any cards to add loyalty counters?

Anyways, Jace is awesome. Perfect for a deck out deck, especially if you run his ability simultaneously with Liliana. Jace, draw card, Liliana, lose card, nd then when they get big enough, discard 20 cards Twisted Evil. BTW, will Lorwyn become standard legal anytime soon?
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Felipe Musco
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 7:47 pm
Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 2434 Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
Thanks, EL! As for it becoming Standard legal, I’ll have to check, but I believe the rotations are usually scheduled for the following 20th, meaning you’ll still have to wait a bit of time. As for Planeswalkers, I have a spare Chandra for trade it anyone wants. And for pulling one out in a Draft, well, we already have an 8-man scheduled here with the prize pool everyone’s got from the Pre-Release, let’s see how many PWs we open... Twisted Evil

PS: From the top of my head, I can think of only Clockspinning and Doubling Season as cards to add loyalty counters, and since Doubling Season will rotate alongside Ravnica block qhen Lorwyn becomes Standard-legal, I think Clockspinning may be the only card that can do that. IT IS blue and have buyback, on the other hand...
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elf lvr
Posted: Tue Oct 02, 2007 8:45 pm
Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 3065 Location: Rivendell
If you pull a Jace, I’d want it for my UB! Although I just got a lot for that from you.

Actually, ANY of the already spoiled planeswalkers would help one of my decks or one of my friends’.

After Lorwyn gets legal, I think I’m running elves. Do you know if the starter is any good? I’ve got two elvish champions and two coat of arms, so... Twisted Evil

sorry I’m taking this off topic, but seeing as how the question has been answered in full already...
Happy Hunting! Elf Lvr
Winner of Best Personality in the FPCA. Thanks!
Archduke Elf Lvr - Archidoux of the Chosen Ones
AMV Maker In-Training! Check out my newest production, Katsu!- A Diedara Tribute!
And behold, EL declared it good. And there was morning, and there was evening, the first (new) day. ~ DainIronfoot
Felipe Musco
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 10:21 am
Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 2434 Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
I think the best starter is the Kithkin one. Goblins would probably be second, with Elves running up close.
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elf lvr
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:56 pm
Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 3065 Location: Rivendell
My friend may get the goblin one. I’m trying to convince him that Goblins are actually becoming playable. Laughing
Happy Hunting! Elf Lvr
Winner of Best Personality in the FPCA. Thanks!
Archduke Elf Lvr - Archidoux of the Chosen Ones
AMV Maker In-Training! Check out my newest production, Katsu!- A Diedara Tribute!
And behold, EL declared it good. And there was morning, and there was evening, the first (new) day. ~ DainIronfoot
Felipe Musco
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 2:59 pm
Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 2434 Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
Are you serious? Goblins are the ONLY playable aggro-tribal archetype in Vintage (Vial Goblins), Legacy (same) and Extended (Goblin aggro), decks HAVE to devote sideboard space just considering how to fight Goblins! ELVES actually suck! Wink
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elf lvr
Posted: Wed Oct 03, 2007 7:27 pm
Joined: 13 Jun 2006 Posts: 3065 Location: Rivendell
Yeah, but here we’re talking about STANDARD goblins.
Happy Hunting! Elf Lvr
Winner of Best Personality in the FPCA. Thanks!
Archduke Elf Lvr - Archidoux of the Chosen Ones
AMV Maker In-Training! Check out my newest production, Katsu!- A Diedara Tribute!
And behold, EL declared it good. And there was morning, and there was evening, the first (new) day. ~ DainIronfoot

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