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Which theme do I continue with?

Dale and the Kingdom Under the Mountain  
27%
  [ 3 ]  27%
 
The Shire and The Tooks  
0%
  [ 0 ]  0%
 
Smaug  
9%
  [ 1 ]  9%
 
The War of the Dwarves and Orcs  
0%
  [ 0 ]  0%
 
Dol Guldur and the Necromancer  
63%
  [ 7 ]  63%
 

Total Votes : 11
lem0nhead
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 7:48 am
Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 2981 Location: Blood Island
Thranduil wrote:


lem0nhead wrote:
Just bearer or all bearers cards does this apply to?

Just bearer - to apply to all their cards, it would have to say so (like Up My Sleeve in my other DC thread). Why, do you think it’s not good enough then?

I never said it wasnt good enough. Was just wondering.

I Unlocked the ability on the Necklace. Good?

Better.


2 Ancient Axe Dwarven
Artifact • Hand Weapon
Str: +2
Res: +1
Bearer must be a Dwarf.
If bearer is Ring-bound and they do not bear another artifact, discard this card from play.
Each time bearer wins a skirmish, you may exert him to remove a burden.
... a silver-hefted axe in a belt crusted with scarlet stones.
H3 C 1

Dude get rid of the dwarf burden removal right away. Each culture has a balance, you cant make every race a jack of all trades it ruins the meta. Dwarves dont have it and it doesnt make sense to give them burden removal. Its like Gandalf having archer. Its plainly wrong.

2 Bright Helm Dwarven
Artifact • Helm
Res: +2
Bearer must be a Dwarf or Gandalf Man.
If bearer is Ring-bound and they do not bear another artifact, discard this card from play.
Each time bearer is assigned to a skirmish, you may Lock him until the end of the regroup phase to remove a burden.
... studded about the brim with white gems...
H3 C 3

Again remove the burden removal from dwarves and men. Neither have it and never should. make it do something else. Threat removal maybe and its better.

1 Dragon’s Armoury Dwarven
Event • Fellowship
Spot a unique Dwarf and add a threat to play a Dwarven artifact from your draw deck.
They wondered if they were still lying there unharmed in the hall below, the spears that were made for the armies of the great King Bladorthin... shields made for warriors long dead... coats of mail gilded and silvered and impenetrable...
H3 U 5

Fine but why not just add more artifacts instead of this card? Make it cost 0 and remove the threat if you keep it otherwise its not worth the deck space.

0 • Ring of Vengeance, Durin’s Ring Dwarven
Artifact • Ring
Vit: +1
Bearer must be Durin III, Thror, Thrain or Thorin.
Bearer is damage +1 for each wound on him.
Locked: Response: If a Dwarven card is about to be discarded (except by a Free Peoples card), discard this artifact to prevent it.
’... it needs gold to breed gold.’
H3 R 21

Sound. fantastic with battle to the last. Or a honed Very Happy

Thranduil
Ban shampoo, demand real poo.
Popcorn My Trade List and CC References
"Smart guy, especially considering his head is filled with lemon juice and seeds. That boy’s juicy brain is FULL of good stuff" ~ DainIronfoot
"No fair! And all I got was an oily unconscious steward!" ~ Pippin.
"Okay, stop me if you've heard this one. An elf, a man, and a dwarf walk into the Riddermark..." ~ Eomer
Thranduil
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 2:21 pm
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 2256 Location:
elf lvr wrote:
You just LOVE resistance themed cards, don’t you?

Firstly I think it’s an amazing mechanic, and it’s the major theme of Free Peoples cards in the White Council just like corruption is also on the Shadow side.

As to the point about Dwarven burden removal, because they should not be good at it these are the only 2 cards that do it, and very badly at that. However, I felt that, for a resistance strategy to work, they would need some of it, otherwise it just wouldn’t ever been worth it - as soon as you fight the most casual corruption deck, your whole deck falls apart.

Thranduil
'We do what we do because of who we are. If we did otherwise, we would not be ourselves.'
- Dream of the Endless

Check out my block based on The Hobbit, my remake of Age's End, and the Fall of Eregion
Vote for your favourite Bilbo, Retired Adventurer(V)
Anvar
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:12 pm
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 251 Location:
Thranduil wrote:

As to the point about Dwarven burden removal, because they should not be good at it these are the only 2 cards that do it, and very badly at that. However, I felt that, for a resistance strategy to work, they would need some of it, otherwise it just wouldn’t ever been worth it - as soon as you fight the most casual corruption deck, your whole deck falls apart.

Thranduil


I think I agree here. In a set themed about resistance, the Dwarfs should also have a take on it somehow. In the same way that in a Magic set based around the graveyard, all colours get to interact with it, which is normally the preserve of Green and Black.

Just make sure it’s built into the Dwarven core values so that it doesn’t feel totally unprecedented ie. triggers on winning skirmishes, on damage bonuses, on drawing cards, on threats etc.

Anvar
lem0nhead
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 5:49 am
Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 2981 Location: Blood Island
Thranduil wrote:
elf lvr wrote:
You just LOVE resistance themed cards, don’t you?

Firstly I think it’s an amazing mechanic, and it’s the major theme of Free Peoples cards in the White Council just like corruption is also on the Shadow side.

As to the point about Dwarven burden removal, because they should not be good at it these are the only 2 cards that do it, and very badly at that. However, I felt that, for a resistance strategy to work, they would need some of it, otherwise it just wouldn’t ever been worth it - as soon as you fight the most casual corruption deck, your whole deck falls apart.

Thranduil


Thats where youre arguement falls down. Its like saying archery is rubbish, as soon as you come across a deck using spies of saruman or high vantage or riders gear etc... it fails. Thats the point. Thats its weakness. If you play dwarves against non corruption they generally beat the crap out of things. But if they face corruption well bad luck but tough, youre gonna lose. Thats the chance you take you cant have everything in one culture that can beat every deck type, its the random element of what your opponent uses that makes the game fun. Will you face un exertable dunlending against riders of rohan so youll get pwned or will u get high vitality minions thats you can trounce?

Dwarves shouldnt have burden removal, bad or not, it ruins the meta. Thats why they never have had it. Thats why they x-ed fortress never fallen cos rohan shouldnt have condition removal, qoute a decipher employee "because they arent good at it". Dwarves arent good at burdens. Hence those cards are just .... urgh.... Like el said.
Ban shampoo, demand real poo.
Popcorn My Trade List and CC References
"Smart guy, especially considering his head is filled with lemon juice and seeds. That boy’s juicy brain is FULL of good stuff" ~ DainIronfoot
"No fair! And all I got was an oily unconscious steward!" ~ Pippin.
"Okay, stop me if you've heard this one. An elf, a man, and a dwarf walk into the Riddermark..." ~ Eomer
Thranduil
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:14 am
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 2256 Location:
But that’s not what I meant. Obviously, Dwarves are screwed against corruption most of the time, but even 2 or 3 burdens would be enough for this whole strategy to fall apart, and that’s what I meant. Normally Dwarves can do reasonably well against Beasterlings, for example (as long as there aren’t too many polearms) because they have high strength, but even that amount of corruption would render the resistance side useless.

Yes it’s breaking the meta a little, but I broke it in the first set and nobody raised an eyebrow. How is Dwarven burden removal any different from Dwarven threat removal, or Gandalf Men suddenly being good at drawing and cycling cards, or Gandalf suddenly able to discard and replay himself, or your Gondor Wraiths that aren’t enduring? Dwarven resistance is a strategy, and it needs the right cards to be viable.

If it makes anyone feel better, however, I have decided to limit it further.

Thranduil
'We do what we do because of who we are. If we did otherwise, we would not be ourselves.'
- Dream of the Endless

Check out my block based on The Hobbit, my remake of Age's End, and the Fall of Eregion
Vote for your favourite Bilbo, Retired Adventurer(V)
lem0nhead
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:20 am
Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 2981 Location: Blood Island
Thranduil wrote:


Yes it’s breaking the meta a little, but I broke it in the first set and nobody raised an eyebrow. How is Dwarven burden removal any different from Dwarven threat removal, or Gandalf Men suddenly being good at drawing and cycling cards, or Gandalf suddenly able to discard and replay himself, or your Gondor Wraiths that aren’t enduring? Dwarven resistance is a strategy, and it needs the right cards to be viable.

If it makes anyone feel better, however, I have decided to limit it further.

Thranduil


Threat removal is nothing like burden removal. Threats come and go regularly, burdens have a much more drastic affect on the game and should be treated as such, theyre harder to add than threats and are punished better. Comparison is not valid.

As regards gandalf men drawing cards thats just a mechanism, its irrelevant in the scheme of the meta. As is gondor wraiths that arent enduring its a tweak on how to use them it doesnt make them any better at something than the culture is used to and it doesnt give them an advantage they should never have had. And what does it matter how meta breaking the other sets are it still remains that this shouldnt be done in a balanced LOTR TCG world. You might as well make gondor a card that says exert a gondor man to discard a condition. Its wrong.
Ban shampoo, demand real poo.
Popcorn My Trade List and CC References
"Smart guy, especially considering his head is filled with lemon juice and seeds. That boy’s juicy brain is FULL of good stuff" ~ DainIronfoot
"No fair! And all I got was an oily unconscious steward!" ~ Pippin.
"Okay, stop me if you've heard this one. An elf, a man, and a dwarf walk into the Riddermark..." ~ Eomer
Thranduil
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:25 am
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 2256 Location:
But your Wraiths did make them better, because suddenly there were loads of cards that exerted enduring Wraiths as well, which was something they’d never had before on that scale. And how is making a culture good at drawing and cycling cards (that previously was not) not breaking the meta?

Thranduil
'We do what we do because of who we are. If we did otherwise, we would not be ourselves.'
- Dream of the Endless

Check out my block based on The Hobbit, my remake of Age's End, and the Fall of Eregion
Vote for your favourite Bilbo, Retired Adventurer(V)
lem0nhead
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 6:56 am
Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 2981 Location: Blood Island
Yeah but i realised what i had done unintentionally and said that i agreed it made them broke so instead of scrapping them i just said if i were to hypothetically release them id rotate king block. Here youve set out deliberately to do something that breaks a culture.

Card drawing is their entire mechanism for your new guys. There are so many cards that rely on you drawing and cycling that any other mechanism in the deck wouldnt be viable. Its just a twist on the gameplay not a change in their meta. Gandalf men have never had "difficulty" in drawing cards and it doesnt make them broken.

Dwarves have never had burden removal cos theyre so good elsewhere. They shouldnt be able to fight (which is their main strength and purpose obviously) AND also be good at the nitty gritty of things like burdens. Dwarves suck at burdens. And so it should remain.
Ban shampoo, demand real poo.
Popcorn My Trade List and CC References
"Smart guy, especially considering his head is filled with lemon juice and seeds. That boy’s juicy brain is FULL of good stuff" ~ DainIronfoot
"No fair! And all I got was an oily unconscious steward!" ~ Pippin.
"Okay, stop me if you've heard this one. An elf, a man, and a dwarf walk into the Riddermark..." ~ Eomer
Thranduil
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:27 am
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 2256 Location:
lem0nhead wrote:
Card drawing is their entire mechanism for your new guys. There are so many cards that rely on you drawing and cycling that any other mechanism in the deck wouldnt be viable.

In EXACTLY the same way that resistance is the entire mechanism for these guys. That EXACT argument works for the Dwarves just as well.

lem0nhead wrote:
Gandalf men have never had "difficulty" in drawing cards and it doesnt make them broken.

I’ve taken the liberty of listing below every single Gandalf Man card that cycles:

Ottar, Man of Laketown
Barliman Butterbur, Red-Faced Lanlord
Librarian, Keeper of Ancient Texts

Thranduil
'We do what we do because of who we are. If we did otherwise, we would not be ourselves.'
- Dream of the Endless

Check out my block based on The Hobbit, my remake of Age's End, and the Fall of Eregion
Vote for your favourite Bilbo, Retired Adventurer(V)
lem0nhead
Posted: Fri Nov 23, 2007 11:33 am
Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 2981 Location: Blood Island
Rohan men from hunters block mention resistance, like their possession discarding cards doesnt mean rohan get burden removal cos they TOO dont remove burdens, cos they TOO are fighters. Just because youre going for resistance doesnt mean that should have an effect on a cultures abilities to remove burdens.


Thranduil wrote:

lem0nhead wrote:
Gandalf men have never had "difficulty" in drawing cards and it doesnt make them broken.

I’ve taken the liberty of listing below every single Gandalf Man card that cycles:

Ottar, Man of Laketown
Barliman Butterbur, Red-Faced Lanlord
Librarian, Keeper of Ancient Texts

Thranduil


Difficulty in a sense they cant do it cos its not one of their abilites. 3 cards is 3 more than dwarves have had burden removal. Giving gandalf men cycling doesnt break them, as clearly D didnt think so by creating these, it was never a focus but never a drawback. Burdens are a drawback to the dwarf culture. You are bypassing that.
Ban shampoo, demand real poo.
Popcorn My Trade List and CC References
"Smart guy, especially considering his head is filled with lemon juice and seeds. That boy’s juicy brain is FULL of good stuff" ~ DainIronfoot
"No fair! And all I got was an oily unconscious steward!" ~ Pippin.
"Okay, stop me if you've heard this one. An elf, a man, and a dwarf walk into the Riddermark..." ~ Eomer

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