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TheJord
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 10:44 am
Joined: 16 Feb 2007 Posts: 486 Location: UK
I have always played the following situation this way, this is possibly why I am asking this question.

Boromir + Stewards Legacy + Gondor Bow + Minion with fortification and 2 vitality

I exert Boromir because of the bow. Because exerting Boromir’s comes before the wound off the Bow, I get to exert with Steward’s Legacy as that is when the action triggering Steward’s Legacy occurs.

So, in respect to my original query, as soon as Ferny wins, Grima activates his text, then the outcome of winning the skirmish is resolved.

Sorry to challenge you bib, I am just exploring all angles.
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NBarden
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 12:53 pm
Joined: 28 Dec 2006 Posts: 5468 Location: I don't know...
Doesn’t work the same way, theJord.
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Elessar's Socks
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:26 pm
Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 349 Location:
Nah, I can see what TheJord is getting at. The way I would argue it is that an effect can consist of actions, but the effect itself is not considered an action. Actions could be placing wounds, drawing cards, moving a fellowship, etc., but you can’t say "my next action is an effect." As the rulebook describes, an effect is just a component of an action ("A effect of an action could be...").

If that sounds at all convincing to you, it follows then that the effect isn’t a "required action" (since it’s not an action) that must be resolved before the optional action from Stewards’ Legacy. Whereas placing wounds from winning/losing a skirmish is an action (winning/losing a skirmish isn’t a "cost" followed by an "effect" of placing wounds), and indeed a required one that must be resolved before the optional action from Grima.
AgentDrake
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 2:32 pm
Joined: 01 Apr 2007 Posts: 667 Location: Halfway between eccentric and insane...
Yeah, I think I see what you’re getting at, but I think you’re digging a bit too deep into the semantics, there.

I think that placing wounds are a PART of the minion "winning the skirmish," (this part being triggered by the fact that the minion "won," and therefore triggers the status/procedure of "winning") not an "effect" of the minion winning.

If that makes any sense....
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Elessar's Socks
Posted: Mon Mar 10, 2008 3:22 pm
Joined: 29 Jul 2007 Posts: 349 Location:
The problem with gluing winning/losing a skirmish and wound placement together though is that it might get in the way of other required actions triggered by the same. So if for some reason you wanted to discard a minion with Let Them Come! before the minion takes wounds from the skirmish, I think that can be done.
bibfortuna25
Posted: Tue Mar 11, 2008 3:47 am
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 615 Location: Springfield, OR
And that’s when the Mandatory/Optional rules come into play. Let Them Come is a mandatory action, and so the FP would get to choose whether to place the wound(s) for winning first or to use LTC first.

The timing rules for this game are really quite clear.

Steward’s Legacy works in the scenario described above because Legacy is a response to the exertion. The exertion happens before the wound from the Bow, and therefore, Legacy’s extra exertion will hit the minion before the Bow’s wound will.

Re: Ferny/Grima, placing a wound for winning a skirmish is a mandatory response. All mandatory responses must occur first, with the FP deciding the order if there are multiple mandatory responses. Once all mandatory responses are finished, then optional responses may occur. FP gets the first opportunity to use an optional action, then the Shadow player, and alternating back and forth until neither player has an optional action. Grima’s action is optional, and so he must be used after all mandatory actions.
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MR. Lurtzy
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 2:14 am
Joined: 30 May 2007 Posts: 423 Location: Living with the Governator
So, if I’m reading this correctly, the wounds are placed because they are mandatory actions and then (if possible) the exertions are placed because they are optional actions? That really sucks, but is fair and there really shouldn’t be a change to it, I guess.
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bibfortuna25
Posted: Sat Mar 15, 2008 7:51 pm
Joined: 05 Apr 2006 Posts: 615 Location: Springfield, OR
That is correct. Like I said, the timing rules are quite clear for this game.
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