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DáinIronfoot
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 11:40 am
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4594 Location: Beltsville, MD, USA
I think it DOES make sense since these specific rangers were part of the Grey Company. However, at least for the companion ranger, perhaps make the return conditional on spotting another ranger or Wraith or something, lest he be splashed into unintended decks and easily pulled back when needed.
Best regards, Dáin, Vice Aftokrator of the Chosen Ones

Check out Lasting Alliances, The Road Ahead, and Ages of Middle-earth, three of my five dream card sets that make up Wars of the Ring. Oh, and I have a trade list now!

Also, if you're into DCs or RPGs (or even if you're not!), check out Realms of Middle-earth, the sequel to CG's "DC Adventure", Realms of the North!
Anvar
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:19 pm
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 251 Location:
Wow, high praise indeed there from the Lemony one. Thanks alot. Some amendments made to the cards above.

In terms of flavour, I would capture the essence of Return in different ways for different cards. With the Dead Men of Dunharrow it obviously suggests that they cannot die. With the Grey Company, the flavour is more along the lines of coming back to help Aragorn in his time of need - hence return mixed with desperation.

Finally, rounding off the Gondor culture, at least for the time being, I have three cards that have almost nothing to do with anything you have seen so far but are built around the theme of death.

Introducing a new loaded keyword: Tomb.
Some keywords are meant to be flexible and fit on a whole range of cards (Toil is a good example). Some are much more limited in scope. This is a keyword that is limited to a cycle (albeit a large one) of cards and aims to tie them all together making them easier to grasp. It means:

Tomb (Cards stacked here count as being in the dead pile. If discarded, place all stacked cards in the dead pile).


2 •Tomb of the Stewards Gondor
Condition • Support Area
Tomb (Cards stacked here count as being in the dead pile. If discarded, place all stacked cards in the dead pile).
When you play this, stack a Gondor companion here from your discard or dead pile.
Response: If a possession borne by a Gondor Man is about to be discarded, you may spot a card stacked here and add a threat to prevent it.
"Their slow feet echoed as they walked down, down, until at last they came to the Silent Street, Rath Dinen..."

3 •Tomb of the Kings Gondor
Condition • Support Area
Tomb (Cards stacked here count as being in the dead pile. If discarded, place all stacked cards in the dead pile).
When you play this, stack a Gondor companion here from your discard or dead pile.
Each time the fellowship moves, you may spot a card stacked here and two Gondor Men to discard a minion.


And a very different sort of companion from those that have come before:

2 •Denethor, Driven to Madness Gondor
Companion • Man
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 2
Fellowship: If this card is in your discard pile, remove it from the game to heal a Gondor Man.
While this card is in your dead pile, each Gondor Man gains “Return - 3” and “Desperation -while you have no cards in your draw deck this companion is enduring 1”.
"’Better to burn sooner than late, for burn we must. Go back to your bonfire! And I? I shall go to my pyre.’"


That should tide you lot over the weekend. More cards on Monday.

Anvar
Last edited by Anvar on Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:49 am; edited 4 times in totalCheck out my dream card set - The Paths of the Dead.
DáinIronfoot
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 12:32 pm
Joined: 12 Jan 2007 Posts: 4594 Location: Beltsville, MD, USA
Anvar wrote:
Introducing a new loaded keyword: Tomb.
Some keywords are meant to be flexible and fit on a whole range of cards (Toil is a good example). Some are much more limited in scope. This is a keyword that is limited to a cycle (albeit a large one) of cards and aims to tie them all together making them easier to grasp. It means:

Tomb (Cards stacked here count as being in the dead pile. If discarded, place all stacked cards in the dead pile).

I’ve seen that concept before...somewhere. Can’t remember where now. d'oh! Always thought it was a neat idea if done right.

Anvar wrote:
2 •Tomb of the Stewards Gondor
Condition • Support Area
Tomb (Cards stacked here count as being in the dead pile. If discarded, place all stacked cards in the dead pile).
When you play this, stack a Gondor companion here from your discard or dead pile.
Response: If a possession borne by a Gondor Man is about to be discarded, you may spot a card stacked here and exert that Man to prevent it.
"Their slow feet echoed as they walked down, down, until at last they came to the Silent Street, Rath Dinen..."

You missed a certain bolding...I’ll let you find it. Smile Nifty otherwise.

Anvar wrote:
3 •Tomb of the Kings Gondor
Condition • Support Area
Tomb (Cards stacked here count as being in the dead pile. If discarded, place all stacked cards in the dead pile).
When you play this, stack a Gondor companion here from your discard or dead pile.
When the fellowship moves you may spot a card stacked here and exert a Gondor Man to discard a minion.

Need a comma after "moves", but again, this is good other than that.

Anvar wrote:
2 •Denethor, Driven to Madness Gondor
Companion • Man
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 5
Fellowship: If this card is in your discard pile, remove it from the game to heal a Gondor Man.
While this card is in your dead pile, each Gondor Man gains “Return - 2” and “Desperation - enduring 1”.
"’Better to burn sooner than late, for burn we must. Go back to your bonfire! And I? I shall go to my pyre.’"

I think Return - 3 would be better, as that’s darned powerful. Alternatively, you MIGHT be able to leave it as is if you reduce his resistance to something like 2 or 1 (or even 0), making him risky against certain Shadow decks while he’s in play.
Best regards, Dáin, Vice Aftokrator of the Chosen Ones

Check out Lasting Alliances, The Road Ahead, and Ages of Middle-earth, three of my five dream card sets that make up Wars of the Ring. Oh, and I have a trade list now!

Also, if you're into DCs or RPGs (or even if you're not!), check out Realms of Middle-earth, the sequel to CG's "DC Adventure", Realms of the North!
sickofpalantirs
Posted: Fri Apr 11, 2008 2:21 pm
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 7750 Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
Anvar wrote:



2 •Tomb of the Stewards Gondor
Condition • Support Area
Tomb (Cards stacked here count as being in the dead pile. If discarded, place all stacked cards in the dead pile).
When you play this, stack a Gondor companion here from your discard or dead pile.
Response: If a possession borne by a Gondor Man is about to be discarded, you may spot a card stacked here and exert that Man to prevent it.
"Their slow feet echoed as they walked down, down, until at last they came to the Silent Street, Rath Dinen..."
GP for italics...Ok I guess

3 •Tomb of the Kings Gondor
Condition • Support Area
Tomb (Cards stacked here count as being in the dead pile. If discarded, place all stacked cards in the dead pile).
When you play this, stack a Gondor companion here from your discard or dead pile.
When the fellowship moves, you may spot a card stacked here and exert a Gondor Man to discard a minion.
shouldn’t it be Each time the fellowship moves? I can never remember..

2 •Denethor, Driven to Madness Gondor
Companion • Man
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 2
Fellowship: If this card is in your discard pile, remove it from the game to heal a Gondor Man.
While this card is in your dead pile, each Gondor Man gains “Return - 3” and “Desperation - enduring 1”.
"’Better to burn sooner than late, for burn we must. Go back to your bonfire! And I? I shall go to my pyre.’"

interesting...I have to say I like it but it is balanced? I think ti would be very fitting if he had 1 resistance, like Isildur...
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"DáinIronfoot"
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Thranduil
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 8:41 am
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 2256 Location:
Anvar wrote:
2 •Tomb of the Stewards Gondor
Condition • Support Area
Tomb (Cards stacked here count as being in the dead pile. If discarded, place all stacked cards in the dead pile).
When you play this, stack a Gondor companion here from your discard or dead pile.
Response: If a possession borne by a Gondor Man is about to be discarded, you may spot a card stacked here and exert that Man to prevent it.
"Their slow feet echoed as they walked down, down, until at last they came to the Silent Street, Rath Dinen..."

3 •Tomb of the Kings Gondor
Condition • Support Area
Tomb (Cards stacked here count as being in the dead pile. If discarded, place all stacked cards in the dead pile).
When you play this, stack a Gondor companion here from your discard or dead pile.
When the fellowship moves, you may spot a card stacked here and exert a Gondor Man to discard a minion.

2 questions:

1) Is there a way to stack more guys on tombs?

2) Is there a way to manipulate cards that are stacked on tombs - discarding them for benefit, etc.?

If not, both cards look a bit overcosted for their benefits. And ’each time’ is a better wording for when the fellowship moves.

Anvar wrote:
2 •Denethor, Driven to Madness Gondor
Companion • Man
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 2
Fellowship: If this card is in your discard pile, remove it from the game to heal a Gondor Man.
While this card is in your dead pile, each Gondor Man gains “Return - 3” and “Desperation - enduring 1”.
"’Better to burn sooner than late, for burn we must. Go back to your bonfire! And I? I shall go to my pyre.’"

I thought desperation was only a callout keyword. Don’t you have to say ’If you have no cards in your draw deck...’?

DI’s suggestions are good, though.

Thranduil
'We do what we do because of who we are. If we did otherwise, we would not be ourselves.'
- Dream of the Endless

Check out my block based on The Hobbit, my remake of Age's End, and the Fall of Eregion
Vote for your favourite Bilbo, Retired Adventurer(V)
Anvar
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:24 am
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 251 Location:
Thranduil wrote:


1) Is there a way to stack more guys on tombs?

2) Is there a way to manipulate cards that are stacked on tombs - discarding them for benefit, etc.?

If not, both cards look a bit overcosted for their benefits. And ’each time’ is a better wording for when the fellowship moves.


Do you think so? As permanent bonuses they seemed alright to me. Currently, I don’t intend to have many ways of interacting with Tombs, though Dwarves obviously have their own methods from other sets (I might make some more for them on this theme). The thing to consider with the Gondor tombs is the card Muster of the Dead, which allows you not to count dead Wraiths as dead.

You can also entomb my version of Denethor, getting him easily into the Dead pile from the discard pile.

Other cards edited.

Anvar
Check out my dream card set - The Paths of the Dead.
Thranduil
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:44 am
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 2256 Location:
Anvar wrote:
Do you think so? As permanent bonuses they seemed alright to me.

My problem is made clear if you first consider them as conditions without Tomb or stacking or anything, just they’re basic abilities. 2 condition that protects your possessions at the high cost of an exertion is probably alright, but a 3 cost unique condition that discards minions in the regroup phase at the same high cost doesn’t seem quite worth it to me. Now factor in the fact that you have to have a companion in your dead or discard pile to trigger this ability and both conditions become underpowered.

Anvar wrote:
The thing to consider with the Gondor tombs is the card Muster of the Dead, which allows you not to count dead Wraiths as dead.

Even then. And regardless, these cards help Gondor Men not Wraiths.

Anvar wrote:
You can also entomb my version of Denethor, getting him easily into the Dead pile from the discard pile.

That’s true, but his bonuses aren’t great (or rather, are only amazing if you trigger desperation).

Also, I have a question. Can Denethor’s ability affect Gondor Men in the discard pile, or do such permanent bonuses apply only to characters in play?

Thranduil
'We do what we do because of who we are. If we did otherwise, we would not be ourselves.'
- Dream of the Endless

Check out my block based on The Hobbit, my remake of Age's End, and the Fall of Eregion
Vote for your favourite Bilbo, Retired Adventurer(V)
Anvar
Posted: Sun Apr 13, 2008 9:53 am
Joined: 28 Jun 2006 Posts: 251 Location:
Point taken. Tomb of Stewards now only requires you to add a threat, while Tomb of Kings has only a spotting requirement (since Gondor is king of regroup discard).

Thranduil wrote:

Also, I have a question. Can Denethor’s ability affect Gondor Men in the discard pile, or do such permanent bonuses apply only to characters in play?


Good question. I’m not sure in general if this is true (for example, if you have Brand in play are Gandalf men in the discard pile strength +1?) in most cases it doesn’t matter. Since Return only works in the discard pile however, this has to work on cards in the discard pile. If the rules currently don’t allow it, then the rules could be bent for Return.

Anvar
Check out my dream card set - The Paths of the Dead.
lem0nhead
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:22 am
Joined: 02 Apr 2007 Posts: 2981 Location: Blood Island
Anvar wrote:


2 •Tomb of the Stewards Gondor
Condition • Support Area
Tomb (Cards stacked here count as being in the dead pile. If discarded, place all stacked cards in the dead pile).
When you play this, stack a Gondor companion here from your discard or dead pile.
Response: If a possession borne by a Gondor Man is about to be discarded, you may spot a card stacked here and add a threat to prevent it.
"Their slow feet echoed as they walked down, down, until at last they came to the Silent Street, Rath Dinen..."

Erm ok. Little bit odd but seems balanced enough.

3 •Tomb of the Kings Gondor
Condition • Support Area
Tomb (Cards stacked here count as being in the dead pile. If discarded, place all stacked cards in the dead pile).
When you play this, stack a Gondor companion here from your discard or dead pile.
Each time the fellowship moves, you may spot a card stacked here and two Gondor Men to discard a minion.

One minor point is why would you stack one from your discard and effectively increase the dead pile by one when you could remove 1 from the dead pile? Ok if you havent killed someone yes, but its risky otherwise. The card itself is nice.

2 •Denethor, Driven to Madness Gondor
Companion • Man
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 2
Fellowship: If this card is in your discard pile, remove it from the game to heal a Gondor Man.
While this card is in your dead pile, each Gondor Man gains “Return - 3” and “Desperation -while you have no cards in your draw deck this companion is enduring 1”.
"’Better to burn sooner than late, for burn we must. Go back to your bonfire! And I? I shall go to my pyre.’"

Crazy. Balanced but crazy for sure. Makes my head hurt slightly.

Anvar
Ban shampoo, demand real poo.
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Thranduil
Posted: Mon Apr 14, 2008 6:45 am
Joined: 01 May 2007 Posts: 2256 Location:
lem0nhead wrote:
One minor point is why would you stack one from your discard and effectively increase the dead pile by one when you could remove 1 from the dead pile? Ok if you havent killed someone yes, but its risky otherwise. The card itself is nice.

1) Denethor you want in your dead pile so you can move him there straight from your discard pile.

2) With Muster of the Dead, Wraiths in the dead pile don’t count to the rule of 9.

Thranduil
'We do what we do because of who we are. If we did otherwise, we would not be ourselves.'
- Dream of the Endless

Check out my block based on The Hobbit, my remake of Age's End, and the Fall of Eregion
Vote for your favourite Bilbo, Retired Adventurer(V)

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