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Total Votes : 3
Cleston
Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 1:09 pm
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 110 Location: Brasil
--- description ---
Simic starter? Check... Budget? Check... Ready for the experiment. Let evolution begin!
--- end description ---

Hi, I’d like to share this experiment report I’ve found in my room some other day... hope you all like following the research report, and I hope to hear what you would have made the same, or different, what you like or dislike.

Cheers,
Cleston.


RESEARCH REPORT - by SIMIC BUDGETMAGE

GOAL:
evolution must be given to starter simic, so it can provide fun and joyness for budget players in ravnica block enviroment..

REQUIREMENTS:
- U$ 10.00
- one Simic Starter Deck
- criativity
- patience
- fun willingness (main one)

STEPS:
1) examinate the starter deck;
2) study strategy to be taken;
3) buy cards according to budget restrictions and priorities;
4) evaluate experiment along with other guildmembers.
5) have fun


Step 1 - examining Starter Deck:

10 Forest
11 Island
2 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Novijen, Heart of Progress
24 lands
3 Simic Initiate
1 Starved Rusalka
2 Simic Ragworm
1 Indrik Stomphowler
2 Simic Basilisk
1 Protean Hulk
1 Drowned Rusalka
2 Plaxmanta
2 Surveilling Sprite
2 Silkwing Scout
2 Vigean Graftmage
2 Helium Squirter
2 Coiling Oracle
3 Vigean Hydropon
1 Experiment Kraj
1 Simic Guildmage
28 creatures
2 Flash Foliage
2 Thrive
2 Stasis Cell
2 Shielding Plax
8 spells
total 60


research conclusions:
- nice graft features
- initial mana fixing, needs to be taken further
- finisher needed (force them into budget limitations)
- removal needed (bouncing must be considered)
- our leader should come join the experiment as well
- close attention to: Simic Ragworm, Plaxmanta, Coiling Oracle, Simic Guildmage, Shielding Plax, budget rares



Step 2 - strategies to be followed:

- settle board with creatures and nice abilities (most include graft, as inital research pointed)
- mana fix for proper use of those abilities (push coiling oracle, but what else?)
- finish with air beats (Helium Squirter is not enough, needs more here)
- need a form of control. since no removal is available in green, blue will have to fill requirements in this aspect; bouncing seems nice with graft and CIP (comes into play) abilities in general, so there is a clear path for further investigation
- cards that clearly attend to the startegy: Coiling Oracle, Assault Zeppelid, Utopia Sprawl, Peel From Reality, Vigean Hydropon.



Step 3 - buy cards accordingly:

- Coiling Oracle 2 (0.10 each, 0.20 total)
- Momir Vig, Simic Visionary 1 (1.00 each, 1.20 total)
- Simic Ragworm 2 (0.10 each, 1.40 total)
- Vigean Hydropon 1 (0.10 each, 1.50 total)
- Assault Zeppelid 4 (0.40 each, 1.90 total)
- Plaxmanta 2 (0.25 each, 2.40 total)
- Utopia Sprawl 4 (0.10 each, 2.80 total)
- Peel From Reality 4 (0.10 each, 3.20 total)
total cards in cart right now: 20.
total spent right now: U$3.20 (32% of our bugdet limit)

the total pile right now is 80 cards and looks like this, in CC order:
10 Forest
11 Island
2 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Novijen, Heart of Progress
24 lands
3 Simic Initiate
1 Drowned Rusalka
1 Starved Rusalka
4 Plaxmanta
4 Coiling Oracle
1 Simic Guildmage
2 Surveilling Sprite
2 Silkwing Scout
2 Vigean Graftmage
4 Vigean Hydropon
4 Simic Ragworm
4 Assault Zeppelid
2 Helium Squirter
1 Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
1 Indrik Stomphowler
2 Simic Basilisk
1 Experiment Kraj
1 Protean Hulk
40 creatures
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Peel From Reality
2 Flash Foliage
2 Shielding Plax
2 Stasis Cell
2 Thrive
16 spells


cutting until 60 is needed. cutting guidelines:
A) out of strategy
B) casting cost
C) colored mana issues
D) card type proportion (must restore original numbers for strategic reasons)
E) card quality evaluation

first round cuts:
- Simic Guildmage (A, and no auras in final version)
- Surveilling Sprite (A)
- Indrik Stomphowler (A, B)
- Protean Hulk (B)
- Flash Foliage (A, B, D, E)
- Stasis Cell (B, D)
total cards cut first round: 11. 9 to be cut before second round of buyings.

second round of cuts:
- Shielding Plax (B, D)
- Drowned Rusalka (A)
- Starved Rusalka (A, E)
- Simic Basilisk (B, C)
- Vigean Graftmage (E)
- Experiment Kraj (B, C)
total cards cut: 9. zero to be cut before second round of buyings.

deck before second round of buyings:
10 Forest
11 Island
2 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Novijen, Heart of Progress
24 lands
3 Simic Initiate
4 Plaxmanta
4 Coiling Oracle
2 Silkwing Scout
4 Vigean Hydropon
4 Simic Ragworm
4 Assault Zeppelid
2 Helium Squirter
1 Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
28 creatures
4 Utopia Sprawl
4 Peel From Reality
8 spells
60 total


strategy for next round of buyings:
- pick a great win condition (budget priority right now)
- spend the rest of the budget to fill up holes

research conclusions regarding win condition:
- Simic Sky Swallower (SKS) is way too cheap right now for its goodness.
- Cytoplast Root Kin is great, but more expensive than SKS and is not a win condition all by itself
- Cytoplast Manipulator would be worth trying out if budget allowed.
- Cytoshape is fun and cheap. Worth trying.
- there will be a small part of budget dedicated to fill up holes and find interesting cards in color

second round of buyings:
- Simic Sky Swallower 2 (2.50 each, 1.60 left)
- Cytoshape 2 (0.50 each, 0.60 left)
- Simic Initiate 1 (0.10 each, 0.50 left)
- Leafdrake Roost 2 (o.25 each, 0.00 left)

card changes to deck after second round of buyings:
-2 Helium Squirter
-2 Silkwing Scout
-1 Simic Ragworm
-1 Vigean Hydropon
-1 Peel from Reality
+1 Simic Initiate
+2 Simic Sky Swallower
+2 Cytoshape
+2 Leafdrake Roost
-1 Island
+1 Forest



final deck: Simic Experiment
11 Forest
10 Island
2 Simic Growth Chamber
1 Novijen, Heart of Progress
24 lands
4 Simic Initiate
4 Plaxmanta
4 Coiling Oracle
3 Vigean Hydropon
3 Simic Ragworm
4 Assault Zeppelid
1 Momir Vig, Simic Visionary
2 Simic Sky Swallower
25 creatures
4 Utopia Sprawl
3 Peel From Reality
2 Cytoshape
2 Leafdrake Roost
12 spells
60 total


conclusions:
- graft is fun, but it’s a bit expensive to abuse its abilities (though all creatures in starter make for fine sideboards)
- Leafdrake Roost adds another win condition to the deck in locked games.
- few threats can handle Simic Sky Swallower, and once it hits play with some counters on it, opponents will have a hard time... or no time at all.
- Coiling Oracle and Peel From Reality can help make sure SKS hits the table. Nice combination that either provides mana acceleration or provides card advantage. Tempo loss for opponent must be considered as well.
- Cytoshape is fun indeed in a deck that lacks removal. Simic won’t try to kill opposing creatures, it will try to re-engineer them, make them better than opposing original victim. Great trick, can turn game on its own.
- Cobracards offers 4 SKS yet, at a low price. I’ve bought mine already, hehehe. Watch the price of that card go way up as standard goes on.
- a bit more loose budget would allow for great uncommons, which were left for this reason, but are wotrth mentioning: Plaxcaster Frogling, and Trygon Predator are all worth playing. Remand is sold out, unfortunately.
- research report has been fun. hope guildmembers will have lots to discuss on it.

Step 5 - have fun!!!

END REPORT.
Last edited by Cleston on Wed May 10, 2006 2:18 pm; edited 3 times in total- "If I die, your deck will crumble!"
Gandalf (any of them)
Cleston
Posted: Wed May 10, 2006 1:14 pm
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 110 Location: Brasil
hey, as it’s been a while i don’t write, i had no idea of the auto card stuff..... I’ll edit the article ASAP so it can work on every situation, okay?

hiope you enjoy all this report... i better find this budgetmage, wherever he’s gone... Cool i’ll ask him to call his friends Rakdos Budgetmage and Azorius Budgetmage as well, but only if this first piece sounds interesting for all of you.

Cheers,
Cleston.
- "If I die, your deck will crumble!"
Gandalf (any of them)
La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Fri May 12, 2006 5:43 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
Not to be rude, but there hasn’t been a playable seven mana card that doesn’t win the game alone since... um... yeah. There aren’t any. Listing of 7+ mana playable cards (since Saga block):

Akroma, Angel of Wrath
Avatar of Fury/Hope/Might/Will/Woe**
Darksteel Colossus**
Dragon Tyrant**
Palinchron**
Phage The Untouchable
Platinum Angel
Reya, Dawnbringer
Scion of Darkness**
Serra Avatar
Sundering Titan**
Tooth and Nail

** means they don’t really take seven mana. Avatars were played because they can come for two, tyrant was in sneak attack decks, palinchron was infinate mana, Titan and collossus were toothed for, and scion was searched for.

All of the rest were impossibly good. Akroma was practically unkillable, vigilant, and unblockable. Colossus was an 11/11 with indestructable and trample! Phage even has "you win the game" printed on it. Platinum is the exception to winning the game alone because it instead just makes sure you cannot lose. Serra Avatar is FAR bigger than any other creature in the last five years, Tooth was an instant win with mephidross and triskelion.

These were all way better than "SKS". While I agree, he is huge, it will take four swings with him to win the game... I’d much prefer to just play wildfire, wrath of god, kokusho, or yosei for less mana. Keiga in a U/G deck and meloku, too, come before SKS in my book. I think you’ll need some better ways to push damage down than a seventh turn flyer. It’s just too slow.

I understand this is budget, but here’s a little budget U/G

4 Llanowar Elves
4 Sakura-Tribe Elder
4 Wood Elves
2 Jugan (about the same as SKS in price)
4 Assult Zeppelid
4 Moldervine Cloak
4 Simic Ragwurm
4 Ocular Halo
4 Coiling Oracle
4 Utopia Sprawl

22 land.

I think you did a decent job starting from a precon, but there were a few holes and I’m not still sure why you would want to start with a precon anyway. Much better to go to a booster draft and get a large soda or two to boot.
La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:07 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
Looking back on it I sound kind of rude, I’m sorry.

I just don’t particularly like the idea of starting with a precon or building a heavily budgetted deck. For my money, I’d rather just grab one deck that works pretty well and isn’t going to age out too heavily and try to win some tourneys with it.

P.S. Anybody here aside me going to regionals? I’m playing a Zoo build there, and I’ve heard Zoo, Orzhov beats, heartbeat and firemane control will all make big showings. Anybody heard anything else?
The First
Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:45 pm
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 195 Location: Anderlecht, Belgium
I kinda agree with La_Sin_Grail. Precons are bad, very bad. Unless you get a Jitte out of it.

The "SKS", however, can be a real threath in a good Simic Graft deck. The combination of flying and trample is very dangerous. Assault Zeppelids are also scary with a few +1/+1 counters on them.

IMO there are better ways to go budget with this deck though. What about a Ninja of the Deep Hours? Full scale attact, nin-jitsu an unblocked creature and graft him(get tokens from Graft creatures that were going to die in the match-up obviously). Or even better yet: Skarrgan Pit-Skulk is virtually unblockable with a few +1/+1 tokens on him.

Peel From Reality + Ninja of the Deep Hours to return Graft creatures that have only 1 token left, Thrive to add some tokens to (Graft-)creatures and Plaxmanta to protect them all.

just my 2 Cobra ’s

- The First
La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 4:52 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
I like the idea of ninja of DH, very, very good idea. I’m not sure on the skulk, though, how late you’ll want to actually play him...
The First
Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 5:05 pm
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 195 Location: Anderlecht, Belgium
If you somehow can activate his bloodthirst and add 2-3 tokens, he’ll be power 4-5. Most aggro decks won’t be able to block him and he only costs 1 green mana. Against control, you’ll have a few more turns and can get him over 5.

Of course this is pure speculation. I never tried such a deck. I probably will in a few weeks though.
La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Mon May 15, 2006 6:41 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
Yes, but I only see initiates and hydropons as having graft... even if you have both already down AND you activate bloodthirst, you have a turn 4 4/4. Even if that’s unblockable, its still a large price to pay for sacrificing your one-drop and having a useless three drop.
The First
Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 5:41 am
Joined: 07 Oct 2005 Posts: 195 Location: Anderlecht, Belgium
The Hydropons are quite useless indeed. They fit more into a control style deck - with that Graft controller creature(control target creature with a +1/+1 tokens on it as long as this creature remains in play). But even then... Think

The better Grat creatures are the Aquastrand Spider and the Plaxcaster Frogling. The sporeback troll might be useful to (regeneration ability for creatures with +1/+1 counters).

You can also use Novijen to add another counter when the Pit-Skulk comes into play for an extra token (ok, it is more expensive than an initiate, but the land remains in play for later use).

To be honest, I don’t think that Simic will ever become tournament worthy. Yes, they have voidslime. But that’s about it. They aren’t aggro enough (Boros, Gruul, Rakdos), can’t create tempo advantage (Orzhov) & aren’t strong enough to control the board (Azorius). Don’t have cool combos like the Izzet.
Cleston
Posted: Tue May 16, 2006 12:15 pm
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 110 Location: Brasil
La_Sin_Grail wrote:
Looking back on it I sound kind of rude, I’m sorry.

I just don’t particularly like the idea of starting with a precon or building a heavily budgetted deck. For my money, I’d rather just grab one deck that works pretty well and isn’t going to age out too heavily and try to win some tourneys with it.


hey, you didn’t sound rude, keep cool man Cool I’ve had very bad reviews with no explanation at all, and I believe Conor has fixed that in the mean time...

I really enjoy the exercise of building witha precon, but readers don’t seem to like it though... if you go to the first pages of this forum, you’ll see my golgari version too...

In shall move away from it next month... but the real thing about this simis is that i really did it... but this time, i bought all my commons and uncommons from the site without buying the precon... i’ll see how it turns out then.... but i’ve got no real way to trade around here, my community is me and my brother, see? Wink

tks for the reviews... i’ll try this deck as soon as the cards come home and i shall give you guys some feedback... now on to the other comments...
- "If I die, your deck will crumble!"
Gandalf (any of them)

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