Deceived Wizards (Shadow Only)

[Mythdracon]

A deck build largely stolen off someone on this forum, and tweaked just a bit....

SHADOW (35)
Saruman, Agent of the Dark Lord x4
Alatar Deceived x2
Pallando Deceived x2
Radagast Deceived x2
Grima, Wormtongue
You Do Not Know Fear x2
Uruk Decimator x4
Throne of Isengard x3
Captured by the Ring x4
Gollum, Skulker
Gollum, Threatening Guide
Evil-Smelling Fens x2
Staff of Saruman, Fallen Istar's Stave x2
Defensive Rush x2
Fury of the Evil Army x3

Run with battleground sites and a Gandalf side that benefits from battleground sites.

Any ideas on how to improve it? I know condition removal will slaughter this deck, are there ways around that? Also, possessions for the Uruks to bear (like Isengard Sword, or Isengard Siege Bow, might be good, but I'd need more Uruks for that, no?) I originally put Desert Lord x4 in it (for exertion, to replace Mumak Commander who I do not have a copy of). What say you about putting them in or no?

[Thranduil]

I don't understand what You Do Not Know Pain is doing. The only way you could spot 3 minions in this deck is if you have AotDL with 2 uruk decimators. You definitely need some more minions for that to work, and to use your Isengard Sword s and Isengard Siege Bow s with greatest effect.

If you want to make a bigger deal out of the deceived conditions, you need a lot more minions so that Saruman can keep getting healed, some strength pumps that work for minions like Broken In Defeat and more copies of each of the Deceived Wizards. And throw in A Shadow Rises just for thematic reasons!

Thranduil

[TheJord]

I love DW decks, they are a fun deck, not really any use in a tourny because of condition removal, which there is no way around unfortunately

[Mythdracon]

Hm, I see. So more Uruks? But which ones? A Shadow Rises is a good idea in case I have no minions, I guess. For the healing, what I usually do is exert for Pallando and heal with Defensive Rush at the start of the skirmish.

[Thranduil]

It doesn't really matter which ones. You just want big minions that can win fights to heal Saruman and beat down a fellowship.

Thranduil

[Mythdracon]

But how many more Uruks then? *desires more specifics* I'm only being demanding cuz my friend at college *who's played LOTR for less time than me* ALWAYS beats me. Well, most of the time.

[Thranduil]

The key is to be able to heal Saruman and for that you need to kill companions. It makes sense to do this with minions because Saruman has an ability that can boost them and they're damage +1, so perhaps use a few of those with high strength (like Force of Uruk-Hai, Relentless Uruk, Lurtz etc.) so that they can win and kill. Also useful would be some pumps that you can use for Saruman and your minions like Broken In Defeat to both make it easier to heal Saruman and also to make it easier for him to win a skirmish. You also have some excellent ways of healing minions in there like Defensive Rush and Fury of the Evil army, but then you need some more minions to use them.

I would sacrifice cards like Evil-Smelling Fens and You Do Not Know Fear in favour of some more minions for the above reasons.

Thranduil

[SomeRandomDude]

Lurtzy and Invincible Uruk are always there.

[Elessar's Socks]

I think I'm missing what the four Uruks are doing in here. I'd drop Threatening Guide, too; he can't win skirmishes on his own, and 5 effective copies of Gollum should be enough for the occasional EsF. That's down to 30 cards and a much better chance of drawing whatever you need.

Depending on how things playtest, maybe start switching out Defensive Rush / FotEA for a second Wormtongue (Saruman, really, really has to win) and a third Fallen Istar's Stave.

[Mythdracon]

Which Wormtongue? It seems like there's some disagreement as to what Gollum should do--as Evil Smelling Fens is necessary though, I'd rather keep that in than the Uruk minions since I need Saruman to cycle back more than I need those other Uruks, ultimately, I think.

Does anyone have a sample DW deck they wanna share? That maybe has these recommendations in mind and a cohesive card strat?

[SomeRandomDude]

DW isn't really top tier, because as soon as someone pulls their Namarie, your deck is dead.

That being said, I doubt very many people have a deck like this.

[Mythdracon]

True, it's very vulnerable to condition removal. I want to see someone come up with a strong DW build though--I'm sick of seeing interesting, new builds be unusable against my friends because they use typical deck builds (like Evil Men archery, Uruk site control, etc).

[SomeRandomDude]

I want to see someone come up with a strong DW build though.

There is no such thing. DW decks are inherently weak decks, because of the type of deck they are. A lot of unexplored strategies should be looked into, but DW definitely isn't a competetive deck. It sure is fun though.

Try mm's run deck paired with my dump engine, if that suits your tastes.

But you will always be clobbered by Ithilien Blade. Get used to it.

[Elessar's Socks]

Ah, gotcha. I've been wondering why you'd request strong decks, but often with unusual specifics. Well, you could always pair an offbeat FP/Shadow with something more mundane as backup. For example I think DW should be paired with a running FP anyway, so the strength of the FP can offset the weaknesses of DW.

The Wormtongue is the version of Grima you have listed already. It's practically impossible to get past some companions when their gear is stacked 5 cards high, so if you can't compete with strength pumps, don't play by their rules! Incidentally Wormtongue can cause hand clog which in turn helps your running FP.

[Mythdracon]

Darn. How about a semi-strong DW deck?

Interesting deck link though--I'll look into it. And probably make a copy. =D

[SomeRandomDude]

There is no semi-strong DW. Your deck is as strong as they get. Once your opponent draws Brooding, Namarie, LG, Seclusion or anything else, they're toast.

DW is best tossed into an Isengard deck that's already running Saruman and some way to exert him and Throne of Isengard.

[Mythdracon]

Can you make such an Isengard deck then? 

I guess it'll have Uruks, right?

[Thranduil]

Anvar has a decent DW deck, but he's away. When he gets back, I'll have him post some thoughts here!

Thranduil

[SomeRandomDude]

Can you make such an Isengard deck then? 

I guess it'll have Uruks, right?

Yeah...b/c that how beatdown works kinda...

[Mythdracon]

Ok, sounds good. I really want DW to be fun to play...as in, not by being smashed by Elves. That's not fun.

[SomeRandomDude]

Discussion regarding off-topic decks moved to this thread.

Thanks!
~NB

[Anvar]

I love the deck and don't have much to add.

My personal build is standard and uses Uruk minions for cycling purposes, as there are lots of unique cards that can clog the hand. For that purpose I use Strange Device, Breeding Pit Conscript and Watchman Uruk.

Anvar

[TheJord]

3x *Throne of Isengard (17R39) 
3x *Alatar Deceived (13R78) 
3x *Pallando Deceived (13U79) 
2x *Radagast Deceived (13R80) 
1x Banished (4R139) 
3x Wounded (4R215) 
3x Men Will Fall (4U161) 
3x Where Has Grima Stowed It?(4R214) 
3x *Grima, Wormtongue (4R154) 
3x *Saruman, Of Many Colours (12R54) 
1x *Saruman, Servant Of The Eye (3C69) 
2x *Unferth, Grima's Bodyguard (4C178) 
3x Agents of Orthanc (6R57) 
2x Rohirrim Traitor (6C72)

Quite a fun deck, the Men dont often hurt, but they have some fun tricks. Wounded hurts, Unferth and lots of others means pain lol

[Mythdracon]

Anvar, would you mind sharing your deck build?

Thanks to the Jord for the deck idea. All Isengard seems like it could work, though it would be tricky. I'll certainly try making your deck build in the coming months. Gold and approval to ya!