Broken Token

[Kralik]

Those who have played this deck think that it is broken, but I prefer to think that I'm just clever. I currently have it paired with Corsair for certain cycling / discard playing reasons, but you may find a better way. Now just don't use it against me! Card numbers are tight, but it works (35 total each side):

FREEPS:
Galadriel, Bearer of Wisdom
The One Ring, The Ring of Rings

1x 14R2 • Elladan, Son of Elrond (starting)
1x 14R3 • Elrohir, Son of Elrond (starting)
4x 18R12 • Gil-galad, High King of the Noldor
2x 18R11 • Galadriel's Silver Ewer
2x 15U16 • Gift of the Evenstar, Blessed Light
1x 18R7 • Celebring, Elven-smith
3x 18U8 Elven Armaments
2x 13R10 • Asfaloth, Swift Blossom
2x 7U15 • Ancient Blade
2x 13C13 Crashing Cavalry
2x 7C23 Into the West
3x 7R24 Leaving Forever
2x 11U26 • Uncertain Future
4x 7C29 Still Needed
4x 7C30 Uncertain Paths

SHADOW:
3x 8R51 • Castamir of Umbar
3x 10C37 Corsair Boatswain
2x 10R38 Corsair Brute
3x 8C54 Corsair Freebooter
4x 8R57 Corsair Marauder
3x 8C58 Corsair Plunderer
3x 10U39 Corsair Ruffian
4x 8C50 Black Sails of Umbar
1x 8U59 Corsair War Galley
2x 8R65 Ships of Great Draught
3x 10R46 Quelled
4x 8C66 Wind That Sped Ships

Basics:
You must get a few cards in play for this to work, and play it a bit by ear until you do. Namely, these are Galadriel's Silver Ewer, Gift of the Evenstar, Blessed Light, and of course, Gil-galad, High King of the Noldor. You can survive OK without the Ewer if you get Uncertain Future, but the latter is much easier for your opponent to discard.

Full Rundown:
*Celebring, ES helps with getting artifacts outs; Elven Armaments is a good all-around booster that helps vs. archery.
*Gil-galad takes Elvents into hand during Manuever.
*Elvents and twin bros both are powerful and add tokens. Overwhelm minions, unless they are fierce.
*Asfaloth, Swift Blossom heals with tokens. Overwhelm fierce minions on second skirmish.
*Recycle Still Needed if you don't have Gil-galad and Into the West yet (or if you want it with Leaving Forever).
*REGROUP MADNESS:

• Remove threats with Into the West and Still Needed (play Uncertain Paths later to shuffle it back in). Exert bearer of Asfaloth SB (usually Elrohir for me) or Galadriel.
• Discard opponent's conditions with Leaving Forever.
• Discard surviving minions with Ancient Blade.
• Set up Crashing Cavalry safeguard.
• Use Leaving Forever to draw (almost) as many cards as you wish to either move again or set up your shadow.
• Use Gift of the Evenstar, Blessed Light to play Uncertain Future, use Uncertain Future twice, then use Uncertain Future to play Leaving Forever. Leaving Forever discards Uncertain Future, recycle. This nets you two tokens for every ONE on the Gift of the Evenstar, BL. OR, if you want a 3-for-1, just use all three tokens and discard Uncertain Future during Manuever.

Once you have the setup you need, you'll be putting out very little twilight (if any) in the Fellowship phase. Discard extra copies of conditions you want to play during regroup if you have them in discard already (one use for Corsair Plunderer in my shadow pair). After everything you want is in discard, your doubling ability is very high. Facing an opponent's discard deck may actually help your cause!

Let me know your thoughts.

[Elrohir]

Hey, another one using leaving forever! Yes, it makes fun. Well, I do not think that it is broken..but it is a very strong combo.
My deck is another type. I will write it later...

[Kralik]

It's not really "unlimited combo" broken, but it may be a tad OP. It's self-sustaining!

[Elrohir]

Yes, there are other cards that discard minions in regroup.

Drawing cards like Move this way or the horn deck are same "near broken".

Long live the elves! Long live the elves!

[MR. Lurtzy]

I've used a deck very similiar to this one, though leaving forever is a very interesting addition that I may want to consider.

[Kralik]

Ah, Elrohir figured out a way to make it "truly" broken, but I'll leave it to him to announce if he wants.

[Elrohir]

Well, we should hope, our opponent will never play foot of mount doom. This makes the excessive strategy a bit ... weak.

[Elessar's Socks]

Ooh... interesting choice using Elladan and Elrohir. The Leaving Forever decks I've seen have been spamming Elven Marksmanship to give 10+ archery a site. I'll have to playtest this puppy.

[Pepin The Breve]

  Yeah, pretty annoying this elven deck if you ask me 

  There are some evil ways of shutting him down with some sitepath manipulation and there are always some nasty shadows that do their tricks even before skirmishes. But this Gil-Ga.. i mean...deck pretty much discard all conditions, remove all threats, heal all companions and overwhelm one or two minions with tons of event you get back adding threats. I always foun the regroup hability of the new Gil pretty OP (yeah, the maneuver too) but that was almost like fruity loops.

  Of course there are some ways to kill it, but i don't like the idea to make an deck specific to kill another (like i had to back in the Lady Redeemed days) or you will just sit and watch while your shadow strategy goes to the thin. Or maybe you got lucky and kill Gil at site 2 with some nasty evil combo before he evens get a chance of doing his tricks.

   Anyway, i must say that even i don't like in some way i have to admit is a nice deck! Maybe i'm just a little sad for being completely butchered by Gil and his twin grandsons   

   The good thing is that it motivates me to try harder some standard deck that is actually good.

[Kralik]

Well, we should hope, our opponent will never play foot of mount doom. This makes the excessive strategy a bit ... weak.

It would crimp it for a turn, but shouldn't be too bad. You only need one Leaving Forever in discard, and you could play Still Needed to your draw deck.

[Kralik]

A change that may be better:

Take out Ancient Blade, and use:

4x Still Needed
3x Uncertain Paths
3x Fleet-footed

I'm not so sure Ancient Blade is as useful as all that, since it would require 2 regroup actions to use (and by that point, your opponent has had a chance for theirs). Leaving Forever as good as reconciles your hand, and with more Elvents (and especially Fleet-footed) you shouldn't be seeing too many minions in regroup.

EDIT: Perhaps pair with a site-control shadow and Fleet-footed will be awesome! Imagine 7x Elvents stacked on your deck, 1 goes to bottom for Into the West, and you draw 6 for double move with Leaving Forever. Then 3 Uncertain Paths with Gil-Galad... mmmmmmm....

[flash]

i don't think that this deck is broken...only OP imho...there are certain ways to destroy it...maybe i will try them when i face kralik again...

[Kralik]

i don't think that this deck is broken...only OP imho...there are certain ways to destroy it...maybe i will try them when i face kralik again...

Flash beat me by running with his Freeps, but the deck does perform much better now that I added Asfaloth SB for healing.

[Gil-Estel]

EDIT: Perhaps pair with a site-control shadow and Fleet-footed will be awesome! Imagine 7x Elvents stacked on your deck, 1 goes to bottom for Into the West, and you draw 6 for double move with Leaving Forever. Then 3 Uncertain Paths with Gil-Galad... mmmmmmm....

But I'm pretty sure you can't spot sites you have in your supportarea that you have controlled in your shadow phase...Sorry

[Pepin The Breve]

   I'm sure that we have some shadows that just tottaly kills elven tokens, but that's only 10% of the shadows. So that's why i hate soo much the New Gil-Galad and Silver Ewer cause decks like this force you to play some kinds of decks. Anyway, i will stick with my old Standard decks and try to make a decent one... 

[Gil-Estel]

Saruman's Power!!!!!! 1 card to kill them all!

[Pepin The Breve]

Saruman's Power!!!!!! 1 card to kill them all!

  Indeed my favorite card! But in standard thing get's complicated...

[Kralik]

But I'm pretty sure you can't spot sites you have in your supportarea that you have controlled in your shadow phase...Sorry

Ah, good point! I thought it said "your support area." Well, then, it makes it a welcome addition to my deck AGAINST site control!

Saruman's Power!!!!!! 1 card to kill them all!

Doesn't work against artifacts... one thing I like about Broken Token is that it is impervious to condition discard. Who cares if they are discarded?! Aside from Crashing Cavalry none of them are needed until they are played in regroup. The bane of my deck is of course, Grond, HotU.

[Gil-Estel]

ai, you have tokens on your artifact...evil knievel!

[Olorin]

Saruman's Power!!!!!! 1 card to kill them all!

sure? --> only expanded, not standard!

ai, you have tokens on your artifact...evil knievel!

ah!

As you can see there is NO WAY to stop those elves... if Gil-Galad were X-listed you could have a little chance... but with him...
no, there is no way... You only need a good elven deck and run... your shadow don't need to kill because no one can kill you... unless your opponent is faster and has got move limit +X and your shadow don't kill him...
reasons for this statement?

1.) Elves are the strongest companions with the highest vitality and the highest resistance
2.) Elves are the companions with the best game text or special ability --> Elven companions are the best companions
3.) They have so much impossible to discard artifacts... (Hobbits got Scouring, o.k.)
4.) you cannot really get rid off elven conditions due to Gil-Galad
5.) They heal more than they can get wounds
6.) They remove threats better than anyone else
7.) They discard conditions better than anyone else (some shadows need those conditons otherwise they do not work)
8.) They are the only fellowship who can play real archery

The Elves were very strong before Gil-Galad High-King of the Noldor or Namarie came out - now THEY ARE broken - the whole culture!

Once got a token on an elven artifact and gil-galad is in play... there is no chance to do anything against it...

But I have got an idea:
Errata:
Namarie:
- must be unique
- At the start of the maneuver phase you may remove TWO token to discard a condition

Gil-Galad, High-King of the Noldor
- Maneuver: ...
- At the start of the regroup phase you may remove TWO token to play a condition from your discard pile

Then it would be balanced and infinite loops could be avoided.

[Olorin]

Please remind, that the Elves got with Galadriel a very strong ringbearer without set back like Gimli or Faramir, for instance.
Please remind, that the Elves got with Silver Ewer a very, very powerful card in addtion to that strong ringbearer... and reinforce therefere a lot of token!!!

[Kralik]

But I have got an idea:
Errata:
Namarie:
- must be unique
- At the start of the maneuver phase you may remove TWO token to discard a condition

Gil-Galad, High-King of the Noldor
- Maneuver: ...
- At the start of the regroup phase you may remove TWO token to play a condition from your discard pile

Then it would be balanced and infinite loops could be avoided.

Neither of those ideas would be too bad, actually. But as it is Gilly already got errata'd by Decipher, so they (in their infinite wisdom) must have decided that he's OK!

[Gil-Estel]

You do not need to remind me of the power of the Elves...well I guess bookwise it is only logic to have a strong Elfen-culture.

[Olorin]

But I have got an idea:
Errata:
Namarie:
- must be unique
- At the start of the maneuver phase you may remove TWO token to discard a condition

Gil-Galad, High-King of the Noldor
- Maneuver: ...
- At the start of the regroup phase you may remove TWO token to play a condition from your discard pile

Then it would be balanced and infinite loops could be avoided.

Neither of those ideas would be too bad, actually. But as it is Gilly already got errata'd by Decipher, so they (in their infinite wisdom) must have decided that he's OK!

...in their infinite wisdom... 

[Olorin]

You do not need to remind me of the power of the Elves...well I guess bookwise it is only logic to have a strong Elfen-culture.

yeah... and why not? why should the elves not be strong? - there is actually no reason for it... but:

normally, weaker companions should get a strong ability (like Jarnsmid remove up to 2 burdens or the librian 18C... makes each Gandy men strength +2, etc.)
but what I do not understand is, why do the Elves get such a high strength and in addition to that so strong abilities like Gil-Galad... etc.
well, I don't say that Jarnsmid and Gil-Galad should be at the same level (a poor man vs. a powerful elven high-king)... but I hope that you understand what I mean...
...and in addtion to that... they get such powerful artifacts... right, artifacts and not conditons which can be discarded (though due to gily even this is not possible)... and so on... and further on... etc. the elves are now just to strong... that's it.
...and I also mentioned two things which make it more "balanced"
I mean each - nearly each - culture got very strong cards in the newer sets... but the elves... I remember the European Championship in Berlin 2007
Elven Armaments had no errata, frenzy of arrows had no errata... guess why those very very strong and really broken elves did never lose against archery decks?
I mean... sometimes I thought, it would have been better if Decipher never had made T&D.

[Gil-Estel]

you think? I totally agree with you, think of all the artifacts and than the strong Gil Galad, oh wait, let's put Aiglos onto him....hmmm, a 15 strength elf...brrr....

[Olorin]

you think? I totally agree with you, think of all the artifacts and than the strong Gil Galad, oh wait, let's put Aiglos onto him....hmmm, a 15 strength elf...brrr....

it's good to see that others also think some way the same...

[King89]

a 15 strength gil-galad doesn't makes me feel frightened, even my elendil is better.
it's more the nasty ability of him and the fact, that he becomes strong as #$&*@!! and not only him: all the other elves too. it isn't funny to see my troll of cirith gorgor with strenth 18+ gets OVERWHELMED by galadriel... and fellas: i'm not talking about the forarmed deck or any other strange strategy in expanded, it's STANDART fomat! 

edit: plus removing treats, plus healing, plus conditiondiscard, plus cycling and drawing cards, plus getting everything back and so on....

[Elrohir]

  ....  ...  ...    

[Olorin]

a 15 strength gil-galad doesn't makes me feel frightened, even my elendil is better.
it's more the nasty ability of him and the fact, that he becomes strong as #$&*@!! and not only him: all the other elves too. it isn't funny to see my troll of cirith gorgor with strenth 18+ gets OVERWHELMED by galadriel... and fellas: i'm not talking about the forarmed deck or any other strange strategy in expanded, it's STANDART fomat! 

edit: plus removing treats, plus healing, plus conditiondiscard, plus cycling and drawing cards, plus getting everything back and so on....

yesss! that's exactly the point my friend!

[Elessar's Socks]

Couple of thoughts:

- Maybe start Smeagol and use Dammed Gate-stream / Something Slimy to grab Leaving Forever. The deck only needs one copy, so might as well grab it fast. A second culture is also one more safeguard against a site 2 Dark Horseman. Extra copies of other conditions could also be replaced with Something Slimy, at the risk of DH throwing a spanner in the works.

- Wondering if you can get by with fewer copies of Uncertain Paths. I really like the hefty bonus from Final Shot.

[Kralik]

The Smeagol trick is a good one that I hadn't considered, but I'm not sure it benefits too much, since you replace 2 cards with 2 others. In other words, no extra card slots and now my deck (with no burden removal) requires me to go first.

I think I did try Final Shot once, but since it's not as good as Fleet-footed usually, I took it out. Perhaps I could try 2x Fleet-footed, 2x Uncertain Paths and 2x Final Shot. However, IMO Uncertain Paths is needed to keep Still Needed from getting stuck at the bottom of the deck.

EDIT: I don't think Nertea is too big of a threat, since with all of the Elvents any of the elves, including Galadriel, should be fine taking him on.

[GloinTheDark]

Wow!  Gil-Galad is insane!  I have an elven token deck that uses him.  This is the kind of deck I would play against my friend and he would get upset and complain about how broken the combo is.  I already use Gil-Galad to recycle Leaving Forever, but to discard Uncertain Paths with it and then replay it for 3 more tokens is brilliant! 

Anyway, I still don't have a problem with the Silver Ewer, though.  I suppose it is a card that is thought of as broken because of Gil-Galad's ability to add threats to get a bunch of skirmish events, but again, that is Gil-Galad's fault. 

I'm actually thinking about pulling my Gil-Galad out of my Token deck and putting him in the elvent deck.  If I use threats to pull events back and use Glorfindel to remove threats I'd feel like I wasn't completely abusing him. 

Wasn't there a Gandalf Combo that resulted in some x-list overhaul?  It discarded all of the cards in your opponents deck, healed everybody, discarded all minions, and increased the move limit.

Also, I agree with Olorin.  It should only be allowed AT THE START OF THE REGROUP PHASE which would only allow it once.  It could only happen 7 times in the game and possibly less if you didn't get Gil-Galad soon enough.  Then discarding a token for a condition wouldn't be so bad, but it probably would be better if it were 2 tokens. 

It probably should only allow you to get a skirmish event at the start of the maneuver phase, or add 2 threats instead of one.   Well, regardless, nothing will officially be done about it so whatever.

[Elrohir]

I already use Gil-Galad to recycle Leaving Forever, but to discard Uncertain Paths with it and then replay it for 3 more tokens is brilliant!

I think it is uncertain future, but other cards, like Lothlorien guides and seclusion can discard also FP conditions.

Imagine, Gil-Galad gets Saurons gaze! Other ugly cards are Redhorn pass, Balrog DoM, Unseen Foe, Sting of Shelob and much more...

Why is it broken? You can discard each condition, draw your whole deck and play every condition from your discard pile...
Saruman Power discards each condition, Move this way approaches to drawing your deck!

Saurons might does work also well! Or just kill Gil-Galad, or even better - kill the ringbearer!

[Olorin]

Wow!  Gil-Galad is insane!  I have an elven token deck that uses him.  This is the kind of deck I would play against my friend and he would get upset and complain about how broken the combo is.  I already use Gil-Galad to recycle Leaving Forever, but to discard Uncertain Paths with it and then replay it for 3 more tokens is brilliant! 

Anyway, I still don't have a problem with the Silver Ewer, though.  I suppose it is a card that is thought of as broken because of Gil-Galad's ability to add threats to get a bunch of skirmish events, but again, that is Gil-Galad's fault. 

I'm actually thinking about pulling my Gil-Galad out of my Token deck and putting him in the elvent deck.  If I use threats to pull events back and use Glorfindel to remove threats I'd feel like I wasn't completely abusing him. 

Wasn't there a Gandalf Combo that resulted in some x-list overhaul?  It discarded all of the cards in your opponents deck, healed everybody, discarded all minions, and increased the move limit.

Also, I agree with Olorin.  It should only be allowed AT THE START OF THE REGROUP PHASE which would only allow it once.  It could only happen 7 times in the game and possibly less if you didn't get Gil-Galad soon enough.  Then discarding a token for a condition wouldn't be so bad, but it probably would be better if it were 2 tokens. 

It probably should only allow you to get a skirmish event at the start of the maneuver phase, or add 2 threats instead of one.   Well, regardless, nothing will officially be done about it so whatever.

I wonder if it is possible to contact decipher and they should put Gil-Galad High-king of the Noldor officially onto the X-list? Or at least they should officially legalize my suggested errata.

We all need to consider that there are some so much broken combos possible (and I mean Standard Format only!!!):
ancient bladel
Namarie
leaving forever
gladden homestead
etc.
The Elves play ALL their condtions again and again... you will never get rid of them... but on the other hand they discard ALL the other shadow conditions with Namarie - THIS IS BROKEN
Please stop arguing if Gil-Galad is broken or not. This should not be a matter of question... it's a fact!

I mean Silver Ewer an Glorfindel are already very very powerful cards (nearly broken, but not really).
It is broken like Madril DoO.

@Elrohir: Gil-Galad is a potential Strength 15, Vitality 6 companion - this companion may be killed in theory but hardly to nearly impossible in practise.

I think there is are a lot of ways to play very powerful elven decks - but with Gil-Galad you already won the game (in two ways: he might prevent to make a shadow work or he might do his part to make the elves unstoppable).

[Elrohir]

 
NO, I mean really NO card should be on the x-list! Erratas are far better...

Discarding all shadow conditions hurts, but who cares? A shadow, who can not act without conditions is a bad shadow...
other cultures cancel all skirmishes, others may discards all possesions, and others remove all threats and burdens, I do not understand where the problem is.

And now, please, stop accusing Gil-Galad of being overpowered! My shadows does not fear him, why should anyone else do?

[Kralik]

I wonder if it is possible to contact decipher and they should put Gil-Galad High-king of the Noldor officially onto the X-list? Or at least they should officially legalize my suggested errata.

You have to remember two things:
1) Decipher has already errata'd Gil-Galad, and
2) Decipher does not care about LotR any more.

[GloinTheDark]

Yes, I meant Uncertain Future.

[Imrahil]

wow. I saw that Gil-Galad and I started to drool, but then I looked at some of the other cards in T&D and I realized why I don't play anything beyond Bloodlines.  Too much craziness.

And yes, the high king needs an errata.  What was Decipher doing?!

[TheJord]

He has errata

[Olorin]

wow. I saw that Gil-Galad and I started to drool, but then I looked at some of the other cards in T&D and I realized why I don't play anything beyond Bloodlines.  Too much craziness.

And yes, the high king needs an errata.  What was Decipher doing?!

"What was Decipher doing?!" - that's always also my question...

...and yes, he has an errata... but even now he is broken... I self got a Deck with this Gil-Galad - but only to show that he is broken - even with this ridiculous errata.

[Shakaroz]

FREEPS:
Galadriel, Bearer of Wisdom
The One Ring, The Ring of Rings

1x 14R2 • Elladan, Son of Elrond (starting)
1x 14R3 • Elrohir, Son of Elrond (starting)
4x 18R12 • Gil-galad, High King of the Noldor
2x 18R11 • Galadriel's Silver Ewer
2x 15U16 • Gift of the Evenstar, Blessed Light
1x 18R7 • Celebring, Elven-smith
3x 18U8 Elven Armaments
2x 13R10 • Asfaloth, Swift Blossom
2x 7U15 • Ancient Blade
2x 13C13 Crashing Cavalry
2x 7C23 Into the West
3x 7R24 Leaving Forever
2x 11U26 • Uncertain Future
4x 7C29 Still Needed
4x 7C30 Uncertain Paths

Basics:
You must get a few cards in play for this to work, and play it a bit by ear until you do. Namely, these are Galadriel's Silver Ewer, Gift of the Evenstar, Blessed Light, and of course, Gil-galad, High King of the Noldor. You can survive OK without the Ewer if you get Uncertain Future, but the latter is much easier for your opponent to discard.

Full Rundown:
*Celebring, ES helps with getting artifacts outs; Elven Armaments is a good all-around booster that helps vs. archery.
*Gil-galad takes Elvents into hand during Manuever.
*Elvents and twin bros both are powerful and add tokens. Overwhelm minions, unless they are fierce.
*Asfaloth, Swift Blossom heals with tokens. Overwhelm fierce minions on second skirmish.
*Recycle Still Needed if you don't have Gil-galad and Into the West yet (or if you want it with Leaving Forever).
*REGROUP MADNESS:

• Remove threats with Into the West and Still Needed (play Uncertain Paths later to shuffle it back in). Exert bearer of Asfaloth SB (usually Elrohir for me) or Galadriel.
• Discard opponent's conditions with Leaving Forever.
• Discard surviving minions with Ancient Blade.
• Set up Crashing Cavalry safeguard.
• Use Leaving Forever to draw (almost) as many cards as you wish to either move again or set up your shadow.
• Use Gift of the Evenstar, Blessed Light to play Uncertain Future, use Uncertain Future twice, then use Uncertain Future to play Leaving Forever. Leaving Forever discards Uncertain Future, recycle. This nets you two tokens for every ONE on the Gift of the Evenstar, BL. OR, if you want a 3-for-1, just use all three tokens and discard Uncertain Future during Manuever.

First of all, sorry for the necro. I know this post is old. The reason I am renewing this thread is to ask a couple of questions in relation to how some of the combos in the deck work. I am making different decks on Gemp LotR and this is one of the archetype decks I simply can't ignore. I am basically trying to understand the principles behind all the powerful archetypes of decks and hopefully play test them on Gemp LotR to get a feeling for how the standard format works.

'Use Gift of the Evenstar, Blessed Light to play uncertain future' then, 'use uncertain future to play leaving forever'

How does this work exactly? The wording confuses me and I am not quite sure what the combo actually accomplishes. I understand the last part that surely takes place during the regroup phase where uncertaun future is discarded by leaving forever. I just don't see what the first part does exactly.

I assume this is the combo to add infinite amount of tokens to Gift of the Evenstar, Blessed Light, in order for example Asfaloth,Swift Blossom to heal every companion to full health if a fierce skirmish happens.

Also somewhere in the comment section of this thread it is mentioned: Elrohir found a way to make this deck truly broken. What combo is this?

[Vroengard]

not enough companions anyways, needs 1-2 more. You have no archery so you cant play just 4

Deck is not that strong anyways