The Shire Countryside (POLL)

[SomeRandomDude]

Okay, here is a poll concerning whether The Shire Countryside or Sorry About Everything should be banned in Austrian format. The results here will be put on the list of rules for the Austrian format and will be considered the accepted variant of TLHH.

Please keep it civil. I will not hesitate to lock the thread if the conversation gets out of hand again. I'm closely monitoring this thread.

With that, I have the poll open for 7 days. Vote!

[Enola]

When I announced that, I supposed that everyone knew this infinite loop,
the game is always running ^^.


You can consider this problem in Movie Block too, by accepting the fact that Decipher didn't know that loop .

[TheJord]

I have voted. TSC is teh borkenz

[Kralik]

Sorry about Everything. TSC isn't broken when only used in sets 1-10, as it would have to be in Austrian format. Keep it as a viable playing option, remove SaE since it's dwarfed by NFFatRoD.

[Kralik]

OK, so here are the specifics on Sorry about Everything:

1) Play Birthday Present and A Light in His Mind.
2) Get Sorry about Everything either in hand or in your discard.

Voila! If you play it right (4 cards in hand), you can repeatedly abuse the initiative loss. Get SaE with a burden, play it to remove 2 burdens.

NOW, every hobbit becomes Sam, Son of Hamfast (who is on the Austrian X-list). Push it further with Frodo, Son of Drogo and every companion with a Frodo signet is also a Son of Hamfast.

With TSC it becomes free, but I think the problem here is in SaE itself. It'd like to hear examples from people on why TSC is "broken" other than this particular loop. Powerful, of course, but it's a condition just like any other that can be easily discarded (no Scouring of the Shire to save it...)

EDIT: To those who voted that "Neither should be banned",  please justify your reasoning!

[thewitchhunter]

EDIT: To those who voted that Neither should be banned,  please justify your reasoning!

So if anyone isn't at your opinion he should be banned? 

Here is why I voted "neither":

I'm no fan of banning cards in particular. The big difference to Sam SOH is, that you need to build a whole deck around this combo to take the benefit. But what exactly is the great benefit, when you're not facing a corruption / burden abusing shadow?

Sam SOH on the other hand is a splash card fitting into nearly any deck (and he would find his way into many decks, if he wouldn't be x-listed...).

[Kralik]

So if anyone isn't at your opinion he should be banned? 

I never said that any user should be banned, I just wanted to know "why" people were voting neither. The problem noted in the other thread is that if neither card is banned, you can heal all companions unlimited times every turn for twilight.

[thewitchhunter]

So if anyone isn't at your opinion he should be banned? 

I never said that any user should be banned, I just wanted to know "why" people were voting neither. The problem noted in the other thread is that if neither card is banned, you can heal all companions unlimited times every turn for twilight.

OK, after reading your post again I think I misread one little word... sorry for this and shame on me ...

[MR. Lurtzy]

If one must be banned, it should be sorry about everything.

[Gerontius]

I think Kralik convinced me, but I don't know if you can change your vote..

[Elrohir]

As I have explained in the other topic about Namarie, I think in Austria Format should no card be banned extra. This means, the Preshadow Standard x-List should contain Sae. So this loop can not appear in Movieblock too.

You can consider this problem in Movie Block too, by accepting the fact that Decipher didn't know that loop .

According to this, Austria Format 1-10 part (Preshadow lists) would take the new rule too. This is far better than to have a secluded Austria, remote MovieBlock and seperated other lists.

[Kralik]

I think Kralik convinced me, but I don't know if you can change your vote..

I'll enable the option just for you.

This means, the Preshadow Standard x-List should contain Sae. So this loop can not appear in Movieblock too.

I would have to agree, but since Movie is (was) defined by Decipher and Austrian is player defined, let's see how this pans out first. If only Decipher has put in a generic rule about loops, lots of cards could have avoided being X-ed.

[Elrohir]

This means, the Preshadow Standard x-List should contain Sae. So this loop can not appear in Movieblock too.

I would have to agree, but since Movie is (was) defined by Decipher and Austrian is player defined, let's see how this pans out first. If only Decipher has put in a generic rule about loops, lots of cards could have avoided being X-ed.

Kralik, Your word is worth much more than Desiphers decisions!

I hoped, we can develope our discussion to an TLHH Comittee.

[Smeagollum]

TSC is not broken. Okay it's a strong card, but there is enough things to do against it. Just think about condition discarding. So, I don't see the reason vor x-ing this card. It is already restricted!

Secondly: About the infinite loop. In this case we could solve it by adding a rule. Make the same rule as rule of four; but then for taking cards from your discardpile.

In addition to this: Cavetroll Keyword and Mountain troll shouls also be limited in my opinion, because you can create tons of twilight and you can get all your minions (from your discardpile) on table.

[Kralik]

Those who say Neither, are you proposing an alternative that doesn't give the Fellowship the ability to completely heal all companions every turn? Consider this as an quick example:

The Shire Countryside (2 or more)
Sorry about Everything
Birthday Present

A Light in His Mind (for burdens and Nenya)
Bilbo, Retired Adventurer (to get discarded conditions back)

Galadriel BoW with:
Answer to All Riddles
Elven Bow
Nenya
Ent Draught
The Splendor of Their Banners

Legolas, Greenleaf (starting) with:
The Tale of Gil-Galad
Ent Draught

Merry, FtS (starting) with:
Hobbit Sword**
Ent Draught

Pippin WoBaS (or any, starting)

Aragorn (Driven by Need or Ranger of the North) with:
Aragorn's Bow
Narsil, BotF
Ent Draught
The Saga of Elendil

Treebeard, Guardian of the Forest
Ent Draught

Off the top of my head, but see what you get! EVERY TURN:

-Up to 10 directed archery wounds + 7 archery
-All threats erased (if needed) or a Defender +? Gorn
-If anything survives archery (minions that cannot take wounds), put them on Treebeard who is strength +10 with Merry and dmg+4 if needed.

Next turn, all of your exertions are healed and you're free to repeat. Remove all burdens as well if you have any.

Shotgun Enquea is not a problem because you will always have enough vitality.

[ephen]

I just realized that this isn't an infinite loop because of the rule of 4, right? you can only use birthday present 4 times a fellowship phase. and for this to be that great its like 12-16 cards in your fellowship half.

[Kralik]

The Rule of 4 applies to drawing cards from your draw deck.

[ephen]

And taking cards into hand right?

[macheteman]

And taking cards into hand right?

not if you are "taking into hand" cards from your discard pile.

[ephen]

I still can't find where it where it specifies that the cards have to be from your draw deck in the rules.

[Kralik]

I still can't find where it where it specifies that the cards have to be from your draw deck in the rules.

Actually, I believe you are right. Here's the quote:

The Rule of 4
Some card effects allow you to draw cards in the
fellowship phase. You cannot draw (or take into
hand) more than 4 cards during your fellowship
phase.
This applies to cards taken into hand by any
means. This does not apply to cards drawn "at
the start of each of your turns."

That does indeed color the discussion a bit... Hmmm...

EDIT: Thanks for pointing that out! I'll have to rethink my vote.

[MR. Lurtzy]

 

[macheteman]

yeah, that would make the whole loop less broken. cool.

[Olorin]

please remind the fact... only cards used 1-10 then... discarding is also possible --> no scouring... no bilbo aged ringbearer, etc.