Sam, Faithful Companion abuse

[Kralik]

So in an earlier thread, it was understood that with The One Ring, The Binding Ring, you can add the two burdens and look at your draw deck to play a ring that isn't there. Adding the burdens can be useful for various reasons, plus you get to shuffle your deck.

So here's a thought: Can you use Sam, Faithful Companion to "try" to play Bill the Pony even if there is no copy of him in your deck? I'm thinking of the free shuffle here, and I have an idea, but I'm not spilling the beans yet.

[Thranduil]

It's a little bit confusing because Sam's ability has no cost/effect divide, but I would suspect that his ability is all effect and therefore you can.

Thranduil

[Elessar's Socks]

*LOL*, that brings to mind the old debates with Forewarned. "Just let me draw the card I want! " / "Just keep shuffling... "

Once is fine, but if you intend to do it repeatedly, I think it'd fall under the loop rule--meaning you'd effectively get only one shuffle (the rest being treated as having happened).

[TheJord]

I think there is a cost/effect divide but its a strange one

Cost - Play Bill the Pony from your draw deck
Effect - Play Bill the Pony from your draw deck

Its the only feasible outlay.

[Kralik]

Once is fine, but if you intend to do it repeatedly, I think it'd fall under the loop rule--meaning you'd effectively get only one shuffle (the rest being treated as having happened).

Once per turn is enough if it's allowed...

Cost - Play Bill the Pony from your draw deck
Effect - Play Bill the Pony from your draw deck

Maybe:
Cost - Play Bill the Pony from your draw deck [to...]
Effect - do nothing?

[Elessar's Socks]

As I see it, Sam's special ability simply does not have a cost (the rulebook does use "If a card or special ability has a cost...").

[Thranduil]

If it was a cost, then you could only do it if you had Bill the Pony in your draw deck. But a cost with no effect doesn't make any sense - certainly less sense than an effect without a cost. So I suspect ES is right - you can do it infinitely many times, but to save time you just do it once.

Thranduil

[Alazzar]

This is actually a question that came up way back when Mines of Moria came out -- people wondered what would happen if you tried to use the Bridge of Khazad-dum to play the Balrog from your deck, but couldn't find the Balrog in there.

As a result, there's actually a section in the comprehensive rules document (page 11) that says, "There is no penalty if you don't find (or choose not to play) a card you are looking for in your draw deck."

So, yeah.  You can use Sam as much as you'd like.  =P



UPDATE:  I was just about to hit the Post button, but I decided to read up on the section on Loops in the comprehensive rulebook first.  Strangely enough, Sam is actually the example they use in this section:

"If a loop contains one or more optional actions and one player controls them all, that player chooses a number. The loop is treated as repeating that number of times, or until another player intervenes with his own action, whichever comes first.

A player wishes to repeatedly use the ability of Sam, Faithful Companion ("Fellowship: Play Bill the Pony from your draw deck."). He chooses a number of times this action will take place. The action is treated as repeating that number of times unless another player intervenes with a different action."