Ferny Frost Attack

[chompers]

There are two main strategies I employ in my FOTR Block decks if I know I'm facing Ferny/Frost:

1) Run as fast as I can. I refuse to give my opponent time to set up his combo when I know his minions post little threat to me individually.

2) Sam. Sam. Sam. My main FOTR block deck starts Sam -- the bane of Ferny/Frost decks. I usually kill him off around Site 4-5 normally but against this deck I never kill him off. Ever. Not only does your opponent have to set up his combo quickly (because you are obviously double moving every time) but now he has to flawlessly execute it not once, but twice in order to win.

Most players who have advanced past the beginner level employ these (or similar) strategies when facing this deck type, which is why you don't see many Ferny/Frost decks win consistently. It's just to easy to recognize.

Could you bluff? Pretend you have a Ferny Frost deck by stocking a few cards and playing them early, get your opponent to run - then hit them with the real stuff. I guess Sting and Glamdring once in play really prevent this - but i like the idea of a good bluff in cards.

[MuadDib85]

No Business of Ours could help stop Sting and Glamdring ruining the bluff.

[chompers]

it's an interesting deck - i like that it brings to life some cards that may never normally see play

No Business of Ours is a good call for bluffing

[albatross]

I just thought that Sam would cause big issues to this deck. A Promise, O Elbereth and There and back again as well. I would have to use Ferny twice vs Sam. Adding Helpless and Nazgul would make me include too many different cards. Seems like Saruman's Power is essential. I'll add Saruman as well, if I can assign an Uruk to a Strength -2 Sam, he could die.

I wanna stay at 33 cards max. I'm thinking about using Spies of Saruman instead of the Isengard Orcs.

To counter Secret Sentinels, I'll put Legolas and The White Arrow of Lorien in my fellowship.

I built this deck back in the day.  I brought it to 1 tournament and went 3-2.  In one game I killed Frodo and Sam.  I used Spies of Saruman rather than the Isengard Orcs.  Also Tower Assasin to deal with Dreary.  This was all before the Rule of 4 though, so my Fellowship was based entirely around card drawing. 

[Todd]

This is the version my friends and I played. Contrary to popular opinion, this is a very solid combo deck. We put a lot of playtesting into it, and I think it was the optimal design. It does take quite a bit of practice and skill to play correctly though. The fellowship is basic card-drawing mania with expendable companions.

Frodo, Reluctant Adventurer
The One Ring, Isildur's Bane
Gandalf, The Grey Pilgrim x4
Aragorn, Ranger of the North
Boromir, Lord of Gondor
Sam, Proper Poet
Gimli, Dwarf of Erebor
Legolas, Greenleaf
Elrond, Lord of Rivendell x4
Thrarin, Dwarven Smith
Ottar, Man of Laketown
Albert Dreary, Entertainer from Bree
Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
Narya
Gandalf's Staff
Glamdring
Sting
Hobbit Stealth x4
A Wizard Is Never Late x4
His First Serious Check x2
Questions That Need Answering
Sleep, Caradhras

Saruman, Servant Of The Eye x4
Isengard Smith x4
Isengard Warrior x4
Isengard Worker
Tower Assassin x2
Bill Ferny, Swarthy Sneering Fellow x3
A Fell Voice On The Air x3
Saruman's Frost x2
Saruman's Snows x2
Saruman's Power x2
Spies of Saruman
Hollowing of Isengard
Trapped And Alone
No Business Of Ours
The Palantir Of Orthanc
Isengard Axe

The Prancing Pony
Midgewater Marshes
House Of Elrond
Pass Of Caradhras
The Bridge Of Khazad-Dum
Galadriel's Glade
Anduin Confluence
Gates Of Argonath
Slopes Of Amon Hen

It has an answer for everything. Yes, Sam was the main thing we had to worry about, but it was not too hard to pull the combo off twice, if necessary. However it rarely was, as Sam was almost always a throw away companion. I can't believe the number of times people would sacrifice Sam at site three, just because they didn't want him. In fact, we often considered using The Green Dragon just to get people to pull Sam early. The last thing we wanted to see was Sam come out late. If Sam came out after site six, that was usually game over. There generally wouldn't be enough time to pull it off twice at that point. But it really wasn't necessary. We just didn't lose to Sam much. Instead we actually tended to bid two, or even three, but chose to go second, just to make sure The Green Dragon didn't get played.

Almost every time I'd beat someone with this deck, they'd think I just got lucky and would make some comment about how some card in their deck would break the combo. They never realized how well planned out this deck was. It really does have an answer for everything (everything you're likely to face in competition anyway). The biggest disadvantage this deck has is it often has to be played very smartly. It's easy to screw up the combo by exerting the wrong minion. You have to make smart decisions about what you need to hold onto. You have to be very familiar with every option the deck has and what to do in every situation. For example, I played this deck in the Fellowship Block Day 1 qualifier for the 2004 World Championships. I went 3-2, but both loses were because I made a mistake. I went into the last round at 3-1 and would have finished in the top four if I had won. It came down to site 9 and I had most of the combo together. I spent several minutes trying to figure out how to make it work, but I couldn't see it. I conceded, my opponent and I continued to chat about it, and about three minutes after I conceded I figured out how I could have won. But I was not a great player and I would sometimes make mistakes like that. I failed though, not the deck. That's what I get for playing a complicated deck that I hadn't really practiced with in about two years.

Most of the credit for the build goes to my two friends and teammates, who were both better players than I was. Jeff Jacobs was the one of us that initially worked at perfecting the Ferny-Frost concept. He kept working at it when we thought it was just a gimmicky deck. Peter Leiher really tightened the deck up and made it more consistent. He was also the best player (by far) of our group. He finished in 12th place at the 2002 World Championships with this deck, which he played all three days. So clearly he was winning against top decks and top players, who were surely aware of what he was up to, yet they still weren't able to stop it. So it certainly is a viable deck. It just requires a lot of skill to play consistently well.

[ununtrium]

Now this is what I call a perfect post to reboot an old topic. I will test you deck right away. Many thanks indeed, because since reading the initial posts, I was always racking my brains how to build a consistent deck indead of a bluff deck. Well done, sir! Have a

[Todd]

Thanks! No problem. Have fun with it. If you have any questions, ask here and I'll try to remember the answer. It has been a long time since I've thought about this deck.

[ramolnar]

This is the best build I've seen of this deck. Isengard Smith and Isengard Warrior are huge helps, making this a lot better than the version during Mines of Moria. I hadn't thought of A Fell Voice on the Air, which makes it a lot easier to play the weather conditions.

I'm wondering why you play 33 cards, particularly when a couple are very marginal - Isengard Axe, in particular. Why Isengard Worker over Isengard Shaman? Also, why only one Palantir? That's the easiest way to kill one of the key counters - Secret Sentinels.

What about the tough matchups - Promise Hobbits and Horn of Boromir? You can get everything to work against A Promise, but the timing is rough. I'm guessing - against Horn you have to Palantir away Secret Sentinels?
The problem for me has been self-destruction. You can beat a good Gandalf deck that uses Albert Dreary, but if your two Tower Assassins are on the bottom they'll make 4 double moves easily. You can beat Horn, but only through Palantir or Anduin Confluence. Lots of tournaments back then only rewarded the "winner", and a deck that self-destructs once out of 6 games would knock you out. In a format where 6-2 gets through, or 4-1, it looks a lot better.

[Todd]

I'll admit that there are a couple of cards, like the Axe that I can't remember exactly why we had them in there. I do remember discussing the Axe a lot, and remember the consensus was to keep it, but I probably don't remember all the reasons for doing so. I believe the main reason for the Axe was the extra twilight. Choke was very common in that environment and against a good choke deck, we would often find ourselves one twilight short. I think the Axe and the Hollowing of Isengard were there primarily to deal with choke.

As to why 33, card count wasn't a big concern. The Fellowship cycled so well that we could easily deck-out if we weren't careful. But in most cases we didn't care. We really thought of this shadow side as a toolbox. i.e. everything we might need was in there, it was just a matter of identifying what we would need and then going to get it. Sometimes things would come together for a site 4 win, but typically we wouldn't be ready until site 6 (can't do it at site 5, though I won't say that didn't occasionally happen by accident.  ). We just cycled like crazy until we had all the necessary shadow cards in hand. It typically would be an all in-hand combo.

Re: Secret Sentinels: Palantir could be used, but in general if we saw Sentinels, we just waited for Anduin Confluence or Gates of Argonath.

Re: Isengard Worker: He was chosen purely for the extra exertion. Against choke, we'd sometimes be short an exertion. Shaman was in and out of that slot at various times. We just decided we like the Worker a little better.

Re: Horn of Boromir: The horn itself was not at all a concern. Isengard Smith took care of that.

Re: A Promise: Things like A Promise and O Elbereth! Gilthoniel! were taken care of by Saruman's Power.

Most opponents would double move every time, because our shadow side seemed so pathetic. That was normal for us, it was not a concern. It guaranteed us enough twilight to play everything we needed. The deck cycled so well, we would usually deck-out by site 9.

[Cw0rk]

Nice post Todd. Maybe the reason you had Isengard Axe was to make it easier to overwelm Sam using Saruman to assign an orc?

[Todd]

That probably was a justification for it. Which reminds me, I forgot to mention that Saruman, Servant of the Eye was a great way to git rid of Sam.

Also, don't forget that His First Serious Check, Sting and Glamdring can all help out the shadow side as well. Everyone would always forget to use Sting and Glamdring, but they can help out a lot with this deck. It's nice to know if the person is holding a Secret Sentinels, and then HFSC can maybe get rid of it. That was another reason we felt one Palantir was enough.