Gandalf, Bearer of Obligation

[uncle_elrond]

First, I should say that I don't play standard that often, since I don't have anything past set 15.  I'm trying to play it online so I can get a better feel for the newer cards.  I really have tried a Gandalf deck starting Bearer of Obligation and this is what I've come up with:

Gandalf, Bearer of Obligation
The One Ring, Ring of Rings
Brand, King of Dale
Huorn

Jarnsmid, Barding Emissary
Treebeard, Enraged Shepherd
Erland, Dale Counselor
Grimbeorn, Beorning Chieftan x3
Pallando, Far Travelling One x2
Gwaihir, The Windlord
Radagast's Herb Bag x2
Shadowfax, Unequaled Steed
Glamdring, Foe-Hammer x2
Beorning Axe x4
Gandalf's Staff, Ash Staff
Perspective
Watch and Wait
Moment of Respite
All Save One x2
The Flame of Anor x4
Saved from the Fire x4

Emboldened Orc x2
Rallying Orc x3
The Cave Troll of Moria, Savage Menace x3
Watchful Orc x4
Orc Strategist x2
Picket Denizen x4
Prowling Orc x4
The Cave Troll's Hammer, Unwieldy Cudgel x2
Goblin Hordes x4
Unreasonable Choice x2
Strength in Shadows x2
Unforgiving Depths x2

Sites
Abandoned Mine Shaft
Cavern Entrance
Caves of Aglarond
Heights of Isengard
Mithlond
Moria Stairway
Mount Doom
West Gate of Moria
Shores of Nen Hithoel

For the Free Peoples, don't bid.  Burdens are enough trouble as it is.  Burn Huorn to grab Grimbeorn, or Treebeard and some toys for Gandalf.  After that, Saved from the Fire is usually used only if I need something important against a shadow.  Otherwise it's a dump card for Gandalf.  Use Flame of Anor and All Save One to win skirmishes and then remove any burdens with Glamdring or Watch and Wait.  I think this side needs more work because I'm thinking of taking out Moment of Respite and Perspective, but I don't know what would be good replacements.  Probably another Watch and Wait.  Thoughts?

Shadow is pretty standard underground lurkers.  Goblin Hordes is nice because I can get back the minions I ditch with Grimbeorn.  Any ideas?

[TheJord]

You have to, have to, have to, play Shadowfax, Greatest of the Mearas and run some threat removal. This is your only chance with BoO. as a lone culture usually sucks so I run / / as it allows for burden removal from the Hobbits, and mounted support from Rohan.

A possible idea is BoO/ Rangers. I'm still working on that one.

[Witchkingx5]

TheJord is true about that. You know how you can defeat your Freeps easily? Don't play minions Gandalf can defeat and Watch you die. (small hope and the like can be very evil).

As for your Shadow, I don't see many chances to win here. Without Demoralized, Lurker Swarm isn't good enough, as it needs a lot of twilight.

@TheJord: what about something like this:

Gandalf, BoO
Ring of Rings
Erland, Dale Counselor (start)
Gondorian Prowler (1x start) x4
Pippin, WoBaS (start)

2x Madril, LL
2x Halbarad
4x Saved from the Fire
3x Shadowfax, GotM
3x Hearts Raised
2x NFFatRoD
2x Glamdring, Foe-Hammer
4x Ithilien Blade
4x Soldier's Cache
2x Gondorian Merchant

burn Huorn to grab Shadowfax, Saved from the Fire and Glamdring. at the next Site, burn Gondorian Prowler to get Hearts Rised and two other cards you need, depending on the situation. Ithilien Blade could be a possibility, another Hearts Rised, Madril, Halbarad, Soldier's Cache, whatever you need. WoBaS is there for early protection, as you will ad a lot of twilight with Saved from the Fire, and he's also ncie with NFFatRoD. Ask Dain . You could possibly add some Home and Hearth, but I don't think you need it so much.

[King89]

forget about BoO... he is the worsed ringbearer you can ever imagene. sorry, but i saw many of them and no one of them standed long, nor are they fun to play.

[legolas3333]

you'd be better off with powerful guide and running shadowplay/unheeded

[uncle_elrond]

TheJord is true about that. You know how you can defeat your Freeps easily? Don't play minions Gandalf can defeat and Watch you die. (small hope and the like can be very evil).

As for your Shadow, I don't see many chances to win here. Without Demoralized, Lurker Swarm isn't good enough, as it needs a lot of twilight.

@TheJord: what about something like this:

Gandalf, BoO
Ring of Rings
Erland, Dale Counselor (start)
Gondorian Prowler (1x start) x4
Pippin, WoBaS (start)

2x Madril, LL
2x Halbarad
4x Saved from the Fire
3x Shadowfax, GotM
3x Hearts Raised
2x NFFatRoD
2x Glamdring, Foe-Hammer
4x Ithilien Blade
4x Soldier's Cache
2x Gondorian Merchant

burn Huorn to grab Shadowfax, Saved from the Fire and Glamdring. at the next Site, burn Gondorian Prowler to get Hearts Rised and two other cards you need, depending on the situation. Ithilien Blade could be a possibility, another Hearts Rised, Madril, Halbarad, Soldier's Cache, whatever you need. WoBaS is there for early protection, as you will ad a lot of twilight with Saved from the Fire, and he's also ncie with NFFatRoD. Ask Dain . You could possibly add some Home and Hearth, but I don't think you need it so much.

Mainly the reason I wasn't using Shadowfax, GotM was because he can't bear both that and Glamdring.  I'm intrigued by the build you've posted here, but I'm concerned that it doesn't have enough healing.  I don't think Halbarad is enough by himself, so maybe use a couple Have Patience to replace the useless Glamdrings.  The other thing that might make it better is Brooding on Tomorrow for some condition removal.  If you're discarding a lot for Hearts Raised, it should work pretty good.  Also, maybe a Sixth Level or two to get the Caches back.  I think I'll have to try this.  Thanks.

[uncle_elrond]

you'd be better off with powerful guide and running shadowplay/unheeded

I'm trying to work that combo into a different deck

[Witchkingx5]

True, I was just tossing cards together that came to my mind. I forgot about Glamdring, but GotM is just so, really, sooooo good that it's worth dropping Glamdring. And I'd rather say Gondorian Merchant and Brooding on tomorrow working well together. Sixth Level might also work, but don't forget about Madril. I'm not sure about this idea, I found it quite interesting when putting tthose parts together, but still, Bearer of Obligation is the most useless alternate RB, then comes Bilbo.

[uncle_elrond]

True, I was just tossing cards together that came to my mind. I forgot about Glamdring, but GotM is just so, really, sooooo good that it's worth dropping Glamdring. And I'd rather say Gondorian Merchant and Brooding on tomorrow working well together. Sixth Level might also work, but don't forget about Madril. I'm not sure about this idea, I found it quite interesting when putting tthose parts together, but still, Bearer of Obligation is the most useless alternate RB, then comes Bilbo.

Bearer of Obligation is really hard to use, but I wanted to see if he could be used effectively.  Also, my Bilbo Archery deck in Movie block is actually pretty good. 

[Witchkingx5]

You use the classic Consorting With Wizards Combo, right? I don't think this Deck being very competitive, as it dies to any kind of condition discard. You would most likely use any Frodo or Galdriel instead of this, would make a Archery Deck much, much better. Have you played against Gil or ket yet? Maybe when I'll have time, I can play against you on GCCG... that would be fun... 

[uncle_elrond]

You use the classic Consorting With Wizards Combo, right? I don't think this Deck being very competitive, as it dies to any kind of condition discard. You would most likely use any Frodo or Galdriel instead of this, would make a Archery Deck much, much better. Have you played against Gil or ket yet? Maybe when I'll have time, I can play against you on GCCG... that would be fun... 

I usually just build things for fun, not to compete, but it does fairly well.  It has very inconsistent starts, but usually can get over them.  Consorting with Wizards is in there, but it's not my main focus.  I don't think I've played gil or ket (that I know of).  Hey the more games the merrier, I need more practice with these kinds of decks.

[ket_the_jet]

A. I haven't been on GCCG in months and am not hurrying back.

B. I'll never, never play Standard, Expanded, Open, War of the Ring, Hunters, or Austrian even if I do get online sometime.

Fellowship, Towers, Towers Standard, and Movie are what I play (in theory, King Block too, if I want to be more bored than the 38th hour of Monopoly).
-wtk

[legolas3333]

wouldn't king get infinitely more exciting if gondorian captain was allowed?

[Witchkingx5]

sure. Infinite loop forever! Whoever gets first to site 3 wins, which makes the whole thing really interesting.. Resolute Hobbit to bid as much as possible, which gives corruption deck a chance... would be a nice experiment.

[rubbercarp]

I have a Gandalf, BoO deck.
I don't think it's EVER won, but I still enjoy playing with all different kinds of decks so I haven't taken it apart yet.

[NappyKorn]

...but still, Bearer of Obligation is the most useless alternate RB, then comes Bilbo.

Hey Bilbo isnt that bad of a RB I made quite an interesting deck with him. I can find the link to the deck list I posted here many many months ago.

Ok back to being nothing more than a patient watcher again, but needed to post something to keep from being pruned  .

[Adrathan]

I'have a gandalf RB deck and it works

[rubbercarp]

I'have a gandalf RB deck and it works

Decklist? Are you doing anything that we haven't talked about here?

[itjunkie]

my friend has gandalf rb deck that works quite well... he starts brand and ghanburi ghan. he then has grimbeorn and radagast from his draw deck. he usually discards radagast though. his deck consists mainly of events, his only conditions are salve is im not mistaken.

he also uses barliman, and a couple of other gandalf allies, sleep caradhras and his FP chokes quite well until late game.

[TheJord]

Sleep Caradhras would mean Expanded, and certain death for BoO

[itjunkie]

oops, sorry... not familiar with the various formats. anyways, the only condition he uses is salve...he also has deep in thought in the deck. barely uses any conditions, basically just chokes with the 3 comps until he plays the others. also, tons of events to discard when gandalf moves

[ket_the_jet]

=he also has deep in thought in the deck. barely uses any conditions, basically just chokes with the 3 comps until he plays the others. also, tons of events to discard when gandalf moves

Deep In Thought again means Expanded, which, again means the death of Gandalf.
-wtk

[itjunkie]

erm...why does it mean death of gandalf?

[Adrathan]

Gandalf, Bearer of Obligation
The One Ring, Ring of Rings
Huorn x2

Jarnsmid, Barding Emissary
Treebeard, Keeper of the Watchwood
Erland, Dale Counselor
Radagast, The Brown
Grimbeorn, Beorning Chieftan
Radagast's Herb Bag
Glamdring, Foe-Hammer x2
Radagast's Staff
Beorning Axe x2
Watch and Wait x3
Servant of the secret fire x4
Saved from the Fire x4
Traveler's Homestead x2
Stern Words x2
A Wizard Is Never Late x2

This is the deck. It's paired up with goblin hordes to reuse trolls with grimbeorn (i don't play followers with my friends for balancing reasons).

[legolas3333]

Well if you're going the huorn route then you need to add more ents

[Adrathan]

Huorn -> Saved from the fire = bb

Read carefully the deck before posting please. I'm not saying that it might work: i have it and it works.

[ket_the_jet]

Servant of the secret fire x4
A Wizard Is Never Late x2

Adrathan: Your deck list is expanded. That makes it irrelevant to this topic as Gandalf, Bearer of Obligation is still a very risky card in Standard, and a very-near-hopeless card in expanded.
-wtk

[Adrathan]

Servant of the secret fire x4
A Wizard Is Never Late x2

Adrathan: Your deck list is expanded. That makes it irrelevant to this topic as Gandalf, Bearer of Obligation is still a very risky card in Standard, and a very-near-hopeless card in expanded.
-wtk

Replace servant of the secret fire with the flame of anor and add pallando and stern words and here it is your standard format.
(without pallando i discard 8-9 conditions during a game)

oh yes it's hopeless..so hopeless that it resists against turbo corruption.  

[uncle_elrond]

After I started this topic I've realized something:  Bearer of Obligation looks good on paper, but you'll only win if you're lucky.  I won with this deck once when I discarded my opponent's draw deck the Cave Troll, Savage Menace.  Other than that, it's difficult for this deck to run because most of the companions can't kill minions.  They can win, but not kill.  Overwhelming them takes too many events and damage bonuses are hard to come by without putting a strain on the fellowship.  You'd need a fast shadow to kill your opponent before your fellowship gets to about site 5. 

[Shelobplayer]

I haven't built BoO deck yet, but I always played with the thought. In theory, I wanted to play Radagast, so I could play both GOTM, and Foe Hammer, and also I think that Radagast's Staff can work pretty well here.

[Haszor]

Honestly I don't know what you could change to make it work better, but one thing you might want to consider is if you get hit hard early on, you lose one companion, you can't prevent burdens.  So if you can come up with something that works as a counter to fast play then it'll be good.

[itjunkie]

bid to go second then put cheap sites. choking early will help keep you alive. foe hammer will help remove the burdens. i remember there is a gandalf event that discards all minions or wounds minions if you double move? can't remember the name..

[TheJord]

You are thinking of Out of the High Airs. That card makes me think of clog, unless you got a system to work with it.

[itjunkie]

well, each time you move, you're going to discard 2 gandalf cards due to BoO... it won't clog, just keep one copy on the turn that you actually want to double move in

[Abbott465]

 bit of a zombie topic here but if standard is sets 7+ then couldnt you just make a massive Ent deck and use Mellon!, the Sap is in the Bough, Orc Beater and Woodland Onod to cycle? Might be bit of an over kill with BoO ability though.

[ScottieB]

Interesting deck Adrathan.  I'm wanting to find a way to use BoO just for fun, but don't want to get pummelled.

Without playing the deck though, I notice that the Feeps card count is only 30.  My smallest deck is 32 and it cycles wonderfully, but often gets dangerously close to running out of cards at site 8 ... (if we get that far).

With all the discarding you might have to do, it looks like you'd have to rely on Treebeard, Grimbeorn (with his axe), and Erland to get things back - all requires exerting your companions.  Radagasts Herb bag also requires an exert if you want to use it.  I don't see any way to heal your companions in there appart from stopping at sanctuaries (which negates Radagasts text), and I wouldn't have confidence you'd win every skirmish - have you found that a problem in your games?

I can see it would work ok against a ninja Gollum Deck given that you'd be discarding the minion condition support regulary, but minion archery, even if they're not throwing huge amounts out because of your condition removal would cause major issues I would think ... as would a swarm deck (oponent could target Erland and Jarsmaid early which would hurt I suspect). 

Any chance of elaborating on the play strategy?  Do you run with all your saved by fires early to set up the fellowship quick? (potentially burning your deck down to nothing reallly quick too!) or do it gradually - adding twighlight and allowing your opponent more opportunity to throw minions at you throughout the game?  You sound pretty confident of this one - so I'm genuinely curious ...

[Haszor]

You don't really have very strong companions.  The highest they get is strength 12 and thats Treebeard.  All you other companions are like 4 strength.  Might wanna add something to jump their strength unless you had something in mind when you made this thing.

[ScottieB]

I've been wanting to make a BoO deck for a long time - not sure why; I guess the idea of getting one working on some level is greater than the reality of it's strength ...

With that said, I've churned it over alot, and the best I can come up with is as below:

Gandalf, Bearer of Obligation (31)
The One Ring, Ring of Rings
(starting) Brand, King of Dale
(starting) Jarnsmid, Barding Emissary

Radagast, The Brown
Treebeard, Keeper of the Watchwood
Grimbeorn, Beorning Chieftan
Pallando, Far Travelling One
Radagast's Herb Bag
Radagast's Staff
Shadowfax, Unequaled Steed
Glamdring, Foe-Hammer
Beorning Axe x2
Gandalf's Staff, Ash Staff
Watch and Wait x2
The Flame of Anor x4
Saved from the Fire x3
Travelled Leader x2
Travellers Homestead x 2
Brooding on Tomorrow
Stern Words x2
Out of the High Airs x2

This is currently untested, although I'm keen to see if it embarasses me or shows a little something.

Bid one if you think you might snatch it, or just bid zero and keep it safe.  Deck is weak with Threat control, healing and twighlight pool, but once up and running, should win most skirmishes with Grimbeorn, Treebeard and Gando with Stern words assisting.  Play the Beorning axe to grab a card of opportunity everytime Grimbeorn wins, and use the second axe as protection on Jarnsmid (Can't believe it's not unique!) - you'll be needing him for a double move sometime.

Deck is small at 31, so you should set up quickly.  As soon as you draw a saved from the fire, burn Dale, and play Radagast and his staff.  Dale is the only companion you will burn - throw away any other copies of SFtF you draw. The third card you take from SFtF depends on the situation, but Grimborn is a good choice assuming you've drawn one of Glamdring or Watch and Wait.  Deck is strong on condition discarding and burden removal - so use this to your advantage and just 'gun it!  Radagast with staff will allow card redraw on the double move (and could trigger brooding on tomorrow depending on how many cards you have in hand), while out of the high airs will clear the deck on your run. 

The idea is to move quick and not give your opponent a chance to set up.  Use Jarnmid strategically, Glamdring and Watch and wait supporting the burden removal. 

Deck should be paired with a standard Troll Swarm deck so as you run, you simultaneously stop your opponent from doing the same, which puts the pressure on.  Travelled Leader is included so that you can control some of the site path and make sure there's a couple of undergrounds on there to trigger the Goblin Hordes. 

Seems risky, but hopefully fun too. 

Thoughts?