What Shadow can beat Legolas DH ?

[Coco]

I'm searching bad matchs-ups against Legolas DH ? Any suggestions ?

Decklist of a Legolas DH :

Ring-bearer 2C102 • Frodo, Reluctant Adventurer
The One Ring 4R1 • The One Ring, Answer To All Riddles

1x 4R73 • Legolas, Dauntless Hunter (starting)
1x 1R302 • Merry, Friend to Sam (starting)
1x 2C110 • Pippin, Mr. Took (starting)
4x 4P364 • Aragorn, Wingfoot
1x 1R318 • Thrór's Map
2x 3U106 • Bill the Pony
1x 4U132 • Ranger's Sword, Blade of Aragorn
3x 3C108 Frying Pan
2x 1R90 • Aragorn's Bow
2x 1R62 • The Splendor of Their Banners
4x 3R41 Gondor Bowmen
2x 1U316 • A Talent for Not Being Seen
1x 1C317 • There and Back Again
2x 4R300 Escape
2x 1R36 Curse Their Foul Feet!
2x 1R308 Power According to His Stature
1x 2R100 Fearing the Worst

Free Peoples Total 32

The deck gives nothing and kills most of the minions during Archery phaes, then easily double moves with Aragorn, what can stop them ?

[Arcanite]

Saga of Elendil/Tale of Gil galad? I suppose Grima Fear.... Unless you add Gimli and Maneuver wounding...

[Coco]

I'm not trying to build a Legolas DH, only searching a good way to counter it.

[hsiale]

I'd say Uruk-hai with 4x Broad-bladed Sword, 2-3x Saruman's Power (and preferably very few other events/conditions). The list you give looks as if it is made to destroy any deck that uses Orcs.

[Coco]

Yes, Orcs are probably the worst match-ups against a classic Legolas DH.

I changed 1x Frying Pan for 1x Citadel of the Stars (Dunland tech).

You talk about Uruk Trackers or other kind of Uruks ? Don't know if Uruk Archery is great against Legolas DH (Weapons of Isengard + Uruk events ...).

[hsiale]

I don't know which Uruks will be the best, but I'm sure everything else will struggle:
- swarm and wounding are condition-heavy and use Orcs
- there are no strong or decks in TS
- little twilight and a lot of wounding should hurt decks, especially as they have no Freca in TS.

So Uruks are only possibility left. I don't think archery will be good - Weapons of Isengard is a condition and all companions in DH deck have high vitality. FotR style beatdown Uruks are probably too weak after losing Keeper of Isengard and Savagery to Match Their Numbers. Trackers should be quite ok - there must have been some reason for Fearing the Worst packed into the deck. On the other hand those trackers can't be the typical build with Weary, rather something based mainly on minions, so that Saruman's Power doesn't hurt. Maybe shadow side of Mike Dalton's deck from http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,5766.0.html could be a good starting point, add 2-3 Saruman's Power, maybe remove something, maybe change one Uruk Spear for another Broad-bladed Sword and you're ready to go

[Arcanite]

Uruk Trackers with their conditions and Grima works nicely, load the conditions onto companions, then return gorn's bow/sword etcetera to their hand, and watch them clog.

[Invincible]

What about moria with cave troll's chain perhaps?

[macheteman]

I love trackers. played them TONS in TS. they are lethal against almost every decktype. but they do struggle against DH decks. they can't play the conditions and events because they are too expensive, and all they are really left with are the minions themselves. you can try to drop enough minions to force the hobbits to skirmish, but even they have decent tricks. sometimes the best option is to drop a vanguard and try to beatdown someone. it can be a tough matchup.

[ramolnar]

Cheap Isengard Orcs, Saruman's Power, and No Business of Ours will do nicely. Isengard Warrior will also stop those bleeping Gondor Bowmen. Start with this:

4 Isengard Shaman
4 Isengard Tinker
4 Isengard Tender
4 Warg-Rider
4 Isengard Forger
4 Isengard Warrior
1 Gollum Old Villain
2 Ulaire Enquea
3 Saruman's Power
1 Servants to Saurman
2 No Business of Ours

[Coco]

I don't know which Uruks will be the best, but I'm sure everything else will struggle:
- swarm and wounding are condition-heavy and use Orcs
- there are no strong or decks in TS
- little twilight and a lot of wounding should hurt decks, especially as they have no Freca in TS.

So Uruks are only possibility left. I don't think archery will be good - Weapons of Isengard is a condition and all companions in DH deck have high vitality. FotR style beatdown Uruks are probably too weak after losing Keeper of Isengard and Savagery to Match Their Numbers. Trackers should be quite ok - there must have been some reason for Fearing the Worst packed into the deck. On the other hand those trackers can't be the typical build with Weary, rather something based mainly on minions, so that Saruman's Power doesn't hurt. Maybe shadow side of Mike Dalton's deck from http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,5766.0.html could be a good starting point, add 2-3 Saruman's Power, maybe remove something, maybe change one Uruk Spear for another Broad-bladed Sword and you're ready to go

Thanks hsiale, it was the conclusion I had with this problem.
The only culture who could struggle against DH is Isengard culture.
A revisited Shadow like Mike Dalton :


Ugluk, Servant of Saruman x4
Desert Lord x2
Uruk Hunter
Mauhur, Patrol Leader x2
Uruk Chaser x3
Uruk Runner x4
Broad-Bladed Sword x4
The Palantir of Orthanc (3R67)
Saruman's Power x2
Saruman's Staff, Wizard's Device x2
Saruman, Servant of the Eye x2
Saruman, Black Traitor x2
Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul x2
What Did You Discover?

Total 32 cards

Uruk Trackers with their conditions and Grima works nicely, load the conditions onto companions, then return gorn's bow/sword etcetera to their hand, and watch them clog.

Grima is good with Weary, but it's a condition and we try to avoid conditions.

What about moria with cave troll's chain perhaps?

Yep good idea, but it's often effective with Orcs and conditions, Cave Troll needs a lot of twilight.

I love trackers. played them TONS in TS. they are lethal against almost every decktype. but they do struggle against DH decks. they can't play the conditions and events because they are too expensive, and all they are really left with are the minions themselves. you can try to drop enough minions to force the hobbits to skirmish, but even they have decent tricks. sometimes the best option is to drop a vanguard and try to beatdown someone. it can be a tough matchup.

I think, Vanguard is too much expansive to beat Legolas DH .

Cheap Isengard Orcs, Saruman's Power, and No Business of Ours will do nicely. Isengard Warrior will also stop those bleeping Gondor Bowmen. Start with this:

4 Isengard Shaman
4 Isengard Tinker
4 Isengard Tender
4 Warg-Rider
4 Isengard Forger
4 Isengard Warrior
1 Gollum Old Villain
2 Ulaire Enquea
3 Saruman's Power
1 Servants to Saurman
2 No Business of Ours

Yes, Stupid swarm seems to be the other alternative against Legolas DH, with No Business of Ours and Isengard Warrior at Cavern Entrance, the Legolas DH will have a lot of trouble... (look at the Schiermeyer's deck http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,5766.0.html)

[Invincible]

What about moria with cave troll's chain perhaps?

Yep good idea, but it's often effective with Orcs and conditions, Cave Troll needs a lot of twilight.

If the deck is built specificaly against DH you can pull it easily on site 7 (cavern entrance) with a deck like this:

Goblin runner x4
Moria scout x4
Goblin wallcrawler x4
Goblin backstabber x4
Goblin Scrabbler x4
Goblin scavengers x4
Cave troll x2
Cave troll's chain x2
Goblin scimitar x4
Goblin Armory x4

I know the armories cost +2 but you have 5 sites to play a few just to make sure you have enough to add the twilight needed on site 7 (cavern entrance) and then you can use them to protect your orcses. Should you play 1 runner and 1 scimitar with 2 armories, you could spot your orc for the troll which would cost 7 since it's underground + 2 for the chain, so that leaves us to 9 twilight... easy to have if you count the 5 companions and 5 for the site (assming he has atfnbs and nstts since bill the pony would be discarded). That leaves 1 twilight tokens + the 2 added for the chain = 3, enough for 3+ minions so everyone would be assigned.

[Coco]

Sure, but against Curse Their Foul Feet! at site 6, it's hard to make a good swarm or keep the good cards ... moreover Legolas DH has time to be prepared against all this (Escape, There and Back Again ...)

[Shelobplayer]

I used to play trackers back in the day, Saruman, Servant of the Eye + random tracker + Broad-Bladed sword at least gives you a chance to kill a hobbit, and it is a solid deck choice over all. I haven't really played towers block since ROTK was released, aside from a few games on GCCG, but I can't think of any deck that just outright owns DH.

[Coco]

Yes, it's the Mike Dalton's Shadow, but we try to think about other stuffs.
After many thoughts, against DH you have many techs :
- play Relentless Charge in Nazguls
- play Wargs (really good  against DH !)
- play Moria Swarm
- play 3*Desert Lord+3*Southron Bowman and 4*Hate to kill Legolas early in the game with Sauron wounds
- play Dunland Stacking Swarm, rather than Dunland Elders 2 Sites
- play Tower of Orthanc in Uruk Archery
- play No Business of Ours in Stupid Swarm
- play Moria Archery
- or play Mike Dalton's Shadow