Southron Chieftain

[ket_the_jet]

A player has a Desert Sneak ( Ambush), Suzerain of Harad (conditional ambush), and Southron Chieftain in play.

If I assign the Desert Sneak, Suzerain of Harad, and Southron Chieftain in that order, should the Desert Sneak be able to wound a companion and the Suzerain of Harad add ? My understanding of the CRD suggests that ambush is added as a minion is assigned.
-wtk

[Kralik]

Southron Chieftain can be strategically assigned by the Free People's player to avoid his initiative penalty if he is assigned last. Therefore, unless you had lost initiative naturally or for some other reason, Desert Sneak and Suzerain of Harad would not activate. Minions are assigned one at a time and ambush is added at the time of assignment.

Rulebook:
When the Free Peoples player assigns one of his
characters to skirmish a minion with the keyword
"ambush X," the Shadow player who owns that
minion may add X. (See assignment phase.)

[hsiale]

"Once all assignments have been made, they take effect simultaneously."

"All required actions responding to a particular trigger are performed before any optional actions."

"When the Free Peoples player assigns one of his characters to skirmish a minion with the keyword "ambush ," the Shadow player who owns that minion may add ."

"DESERT RUNNER 7 C 133
Clarification:
Southron. Ambush .
When the Free Peoples player assigns this minion to a character and you have initiative, you may wound that character."

(Quotes from rulebook: assignment, action, ambush, Desert Runner clarification. Desert Sneak and Desert Scout have the same clarification.)

You cannot assign in a particular order (unless via assignment actions). So all Southrons get assigned simultaneously, Chieftain action is required and takes place before all others (which are optional).

[Vroengard]

That means now? There are 2 opinions here as far as I understand that. Do they trigger the effect or not?

[bibfortuna25]

All minions are assigned at the same time.

A required action due to the Southron Chieftain being assigned is that he gives the Shadow initiative.

Both Suzerain of Harad and Desert Sneak are optional actions due to being assigned when Shadow has initiative, so they occur after the Chieftain gives initiative.

[TelTura]

initiative triggers are optional?  that's bull.  not you guys, I mean that Decipher would even have such shaky mechanics...the card says "mandatory" and the rules say "optional".

[bibfortuna25]

Ambush is optional, as is the Desert Sneak's ability. Therefore, they have to come after the Southron Chieftain's mandatory action of giving the Shadow initiative.

[TelTura]

Ambush is optional, as is the Desert Sneak's ability. Therefore, they have to come after the Southron Chieftain's mandatory action of giving the Shadow initiative.

Sure, but the fact that they came in after the fact and claimed "oh, it's optional.  I know the card says 'you must do this' but we actually meant 'you can do it if you want'", and that's what I'm calling shenanigans on.  That's not a clarification, that's an outright errata.

[ket_the_jet]

Hmm...reading more about the assignment phase [and less specifically about Ambush rules] leads me to accept your justification. I ended up pulling through and winning the game, so no harm done but...

...that all foil Southron deck I built then sold because it was utterly unsuccessful would've been way better if I played Southron Chieftain as he was meant to be played. C'est la vie.
-wtk

[Air Power]

that all foil Southron deck I built then sold because it was utterly unsuccessful would've been way better if I played Southron Chieftain as he was meant to be played. C'est la vie.
-wtk

thanks 

[MarcinS]

Ambush is optional, as is the Desert Sneak's ability. Therefore, they have to come after the Southron Chieftain's mandatory action of giving the Shadow initiative.

Sure, but the fact that they came in after the fact and claimed "oh, it's optional.  I know the card says 'you must do this' but we actually meant 'you can do it if you want'", and that's what I'm calling shenanigans on.  That's not a clarification, that's an outright errata.

Umm, Ambush always was an optional - from Comprehensive Rules: "the Shadow player who owns that minion may add..."

[TelTura]

I'm talking about the initiative action, not ambush.  Desert Sneak and their ilk very clearly states on the card to perform an action.  Period.  For Decipher to then try and "clarify" that the phrase "When...you have initiative, wound that character" means "If you feel like it, you may wound that character" seems stupid, in my opinion.  Errata it if need be, but don't gum up the meaning of words when it's in black and white.

[Tbiesty]

Yes, the "...and you have initiative, wound that character." part of Desert Sneak is a required action.  If it was "...and you have initiative, you may wound that character.", then it would have been optional.  "May" is the key word to determine if it is optional.

[TelTura]

That's the point.  Check the clarification text.

[Tbiesty]

That's the point.  Check the clarification text.

Ah, I see now. ok, looks like it's optional then (and seems easier to comprehend that way too). Perhaps that's why it was done.