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Author Topic: Gollum Witch King  (Read 7964 times)

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September 12, 2017, 08:31:42 AM
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Gaurwaith

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Gollum Witch King
« on: September 12, 2017, 08:31:42 AM »
When i was playing back in the days I had someone in my playing group, with a really effective Shadow based on Witch King Morgul King, several Gollums and Shelob and all round adding and using threats. I tried now to rebuild the Deck on Gemp but I didn't made it that good as it was. I basically lost every Game before. My Deck list I have so far is:

Schadow (35):

1x Gollum, Mad Thing
1x Gollum, Vile Creature
3x Shelob, Her Ladyship
4x Witch King, Morgul King
1x Ulaire Enquea, LoM
2x Web
3x Fell Beast
3x The Pale Blade
4x Captured by the Ring
3x So Polite
3x All Blades Perish
3x Evil-Smelling Fens
1x Fat one wants it
1x Final Strike
2x They Stole it

Basic idea is to add threats with Gollum, add some pool with So Polite and play a equipped Witch King and Shelob to either stop or kill, web and ESF are used to play them when ever you can. and With Morgul King you can grab Fell Beast and Pale Blade. All Blades Perish are use to make the witch King survive the Archery Phase.

Does anyone ever played a deck like this or can give me some tips to make it 100% work in a competitive way, since I don't remember how the person was playing it back in the days? I really lost every game back in the old days :)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2017, 08:34:43 AM by Gaurwaith »

September 12, 2017, 10:15:24 AM
Reply #1

ket_the_jet

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Re: Gollum Witch King
« Reply #1 on: September 12, 2017, 10:15:24 AM »
So, here is a thought for a dangerous Witch-King: Skip the Fell Beast for Black Steed. In Movie Block, you have Plains access at sites 2, 4, 5, 7, and 9. You're already fierce, might as well get that extra +2 strength!

On the other hand, you're going to possibly be in rough shape for cycling. I personally don't think the synergy between a partial Ninja Gollum deck work with this game plan. Shelob, Her Ladyship is just too expensive most of the time when you want to play the Nazgul.

I'd rather see something like this:
1 Gollum, Mad Thing
1 Gollum, Vile Creature
1 Gollum, Old Villain

4 The Witch King, Morgul King
2 Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul
4 Morgul Destroyer
1 Morgul Squealer

2 Morgul Skulker

2 The Pale Blade
3 Black Steed

4 Captured By the Ring
2 So Polite
3 All Blades Perish

4 Evil-Smelling Fens
1 Fat One Wants It

You're going to run into some major problems against a Smeagol-centric deck. Don't Look at Them is devastating against a single minion deck, and doubly so against [Wraith] culture. So I cannot say that this will be the most successful build of this Shadow, but I am almost certain it will be more effective than where you were.

Best,
-wtk

September 13, 2017, 02:33:51 AM
Reply #2

Gaurwaith

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Re: Gollum Witch King
« Reply #2 on: September 13, 2017, 02:33:51 AM »
Thanks for the Deck Idea. You are right a partial Ninja Gollum with a strong Witch King might be to much. I actually just added They stole it to help cycling. I like your deck and I will try your version out! Even when it´s not directly the Deck I was looking for. You are also right that Shelob is too expensive and it´s really not often that you can play all of them. But the previous build circled around Gollum, Shelob and Witch King. Maybe I do it totally wrong and the person played it totally different, since its already 10 years ago. Somehow the Deck did everything, adding some threats, some burdens (most probably Mad Thing) and used these to somehow kill, but I don't know how. I was playing till Bloodline, so there might have been already other cards from these Block. Was it such an unique deck just in our play group? Thought it was a quite common one  :o  :-k
« Last Edit: September 13, 2017, 02:38:02 AM by Gaurwaith »

September 13, 2017, 07:18:33 AM
Reply #3

Dictionary

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Re: Gollum Witch King
« Reply #3 on: September 13, 2017, 07:18:33 AM »
There are plenty of Morgul King decks. In 1-7 it's one of the stronger builds I believe, and it's certainly doable in Movie and Expanded too. Many Gollums work well as support, but I don't see how Shelob fits in at all. You need 18 twilight at most sites to play all 3, and many fellowships won't give you that much, even with So Polite.

In my experience, Gollum actually plays a very minor role; he adds threats and serves as a cheap robust minion, but Nazgul have so many tricks (Especially if you include post-shadows cards) I don't think he's all that important.
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September 13, 2017, 09:47:52 AM
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Gaurwaith

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Re: Gollum Witch King
« Reply #4 on: September 13, 2017, 09:47:52 AM »
Ok maybe you are right and it was a Morgul King deck with Gollum support. Maybe it just had one or two copies of Shelob in case there is enough pool to play all of them and I just remembered wrong that Shelob had a major roll. Guess I try a version just focussing on Witch King and add 1 or 2 copies of Shelob just in case that i will have enough pool. So I get out the Ninja Gollum stuff and play test the deck again before i post a final version :) Thanks for your help so far :)

September 22, 2017, 02:11:41 AM
Reply #5

Shelobplayer

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Re: Gollum Witch King
« Reply #5 on: September 22, 2017, 02:11:41 AM »
I remember some fella doing well at local tournaments with a Morgul King / Gollum deck. He played a few copies of Stricken Dumb. Cantea, Faster than Winds probably worths consideration. Winged Mount also.

September 22, 2017, 05:57:55 AM
Reply #6

ket_the_jet

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Re: Gollum Witch King
« Reply #6 on: September 22, 2017, 05:57:55 AM »
Also note that a quick way to set up the Shadow side would be to run a free peoples side with Gandalf and Smeagol. You can burn Smeagol with Saved From the Fire to pick out Fat One Wants It, Evil-Smelling Fens, and Captured By the Ring to get a few quick threats and support area build up.

Best,
-wtk

September 25, 2017, 09:27:46 AM
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Gaurwaith

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Re: Gollum Witch King
« Reply #7 on: September 25, 2017, 09:27:46 AM »
Thanks for the help so far! Stricken Dumb was a good idea and I also added a copy of Cantea, Faster than Winds. The idea with saved from the fire is good but somehow I have always problems to make such a deck work, when i burn Smeagol to get Gollum cards and not a week companion to get strong cards for example ents or gondor companions with weapons. I am posting the complete deck list after a few more playtests. It´s still 35 cards big and I am not sure if it would work better with 30 since i have often cards in hand i don´t need and then no Witch King or Gollum

September 25, 2017, 03:21:44 PM
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Gaurwaith

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Re: Gollum Witch King
« Reply #8 on: September 25, 2017, 03:21:44 PM »
So I played some test games and I have now two versions which turned out to be quite effective, even if there exist most probably a even more successful build and especially more effective other shadows. First to all to your suggestions:
I think Black Steed was the most success mount. With 11 pool and initiate at site 2 a Witch King with 21 and dmg+1 usually kills a lot. Cantea usually just added one threat for 5 pool and meant that i couldn't  play the Witch King and if i used him to discard sth I usually missed the threats later for sth else so i putted him out again.  Morgul Destroyer are really effective as well since with enough threats you can push them a lot and its funny if they try everything to kill your Witch King and than you overwhelm one of their companions with a destroyer or Gollum using threats or discarding cards. These three together was the most effective combo (Witch King, Destroyer, Discard Gollum), sometimes even used a Fens to Pull a Destroyer. Stricken Dumb is also really good. In the second version I still have Shelob, guess is the less effective version but it happened that i could pull Shelob, Witch King and Gollum and a Destroyer at site 9 and knock out a Durin and win. Now the versions:

First version (31 Cards)

1 Gollum, Mad Thing
1 Gollum, Vile Creature
1 Gollum, Old Villain
4 The Witch King, Morgul King
1 Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul
4 Morgul Destroyer

2 The Pale Blade
3 Black Steed

4 Captured By the Ring
1 So Polite
2 All Blades Perish
2 Stricken Dumb

4 Evil-Smelling Fens
1 Fat One Wants It

Somehow would want to add a all Blades Perish here but don´t want to make the Deck bigger since you really need a good draw.

Second Version (35 Cards)

1 Gollum, Mad Thing
1 Gollum, Vile Creature
1 Gollum, Old Villain
2 Shelob, Her Ladyship
4 The Witch King, Morgul King
1 Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul
4 Morgul Destroyer

2 The Pale Blade
3 Black Steed

4 Captured By the Ring
2 So Polite
3 All Blades Perish
2 Stricken Dumb

4 Evil-Smelling Fens
1 Fat One Wants It

What do you think? Is there still something to improve? I will keep on play testing. My biggest problem so far is wounding and Elf telepathy with Glorfindel and Gandalf MoW pushing the Witch King to zero.
« Last Edit: September 25, 2017, 03:34:21 PM by Gaurwaith »

September 26, 2017, 06:35:01 AM
Reply #9

ket_the_jet

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Re: Gollum Witch King
« Reply #9 on: September 26, 2017, 06:35:01 AM »
First version (31 Cards)
1 Gollum, Mad Thing
1 Gollum, Vile Creature
1 Gollum, Old Villain
4 The Witch King, Morgul King
1 Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul
4 Morgul Destroyer

2 The Pale Blade
3 Black Steed

4 Captured By the Ring
1 So Polite
2 All Blades Perish
2 Stricken Dumb

4 Evil-Smelling Fens
1 Fat One Wants It

Somehow would want to add a all Blades Perish here but don´t want to make the Deck bigger since you really need a good draw.
I would drop So Polite for another All Blades Perish, and maybe Gollum, Mad Thing for another Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul.

If you were going to increase the deck to 32 cards, maybe Wreathed in Shadow would be helpful?

If Gandalf is an issue, Too Great and Terrible is always an option.
-wtk

September 26, 2017, 07:04:48 AM
Reply #10

Durin's Heir

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Re: Gollum Witch King
« Reply #10 on: September 26, 2017, 07:04:48 AM »
This deck needs some condition discard. You already have The Pale Blade which is great, but only if the FP conditions don't hurt you enough before the Witch can win his fight, which happens with Knights, Eowyn LoI + Slacked Thrists, Glimpse of Fate, Always Helps + Don't Look at Them (if you lack All Blades Perish / Winged Mount)...

So adding 2 or 3x Black Traitor can help a lot in that, recycled by ESF in necessary. Besides, given his archery/skirmish protection he's AWESOME if your Witch-King faces Eowyn LoI.


To counter Elven Telepathy, Black Traitor can be paired with Saruman's Snows (and perhaps A Fell Voice in the Air). It helps against Knights and Skirmish wounding too. But that bloats the deck a lot.

What about Final Strike? It stops Greenleaf/Aragorn's Bow, Vilya, Merry's Sword, Catapult...
« Last Edit: September 26, 2017, 08:38:47 AM by Durin's Heir »
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September 28, 2017, 01:04:28 AM
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Gaurwaith

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Re: Gollum Witch King
« Reply #11 on: September 28, 2017, 01:04:28 AM »
I changed the last So Polite agains All Blades Perish. It´s true Gollum is not necessary on every site as long as he adds threats and takes some archery. Adding Saruman, Black Traitor was also a good idea, even when I haven´t used him much so far but knowing that I can get rid of an annoying condition gives a good feeling. I also added the deck to 32 cards but would not add it back to 35, since the performance was much worse with more cards.  Pair this deck with a good fellowship and try to go first. Witch King really stops and in a lot of cases you can run through quite easily and if the fellowship don´t work let the Witch King do his Job. Another Destroyer and a second Enquea would be nice but I really don´t want to blow up the deck. It is really crucial if you don't draw what you need.

(32 Cards)

1 Gollum, Mad Thing
1 Gollum, Vile Creature
1 Gollum, Old Villain
2 Saruman, Black Traitor
4 The Witch King, Morgul King
1 Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul
3 Morgul Destroyer

2 The Pale Blade
3 Black Steed

4 Captured By the Ring
3 All Blades Perish
2 Stricken Dumb

4 Evil-Smelling Fens
1 Fat One Wants It

Guess I also build a anti Gandalf Version with 3 Too Great and Terrible instead of All Blades Perish, when i know that I play against the Gandalf MoW, Glorfindel RiW, Sauron -18 combo.

Do you think the deck is competitive?
« Last Edit: September 28, 2017, 02:18:45 AM by Gaurwaith »

October 01, 2017, 04:05:50 AM
Reply #12

Shelobplayer

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Re: Gollum Witch King
« Reply #12 on: October 01, 2017, 04:05:50 AM »
You are banking a lot on the WK like this, too much even I feel. You should get some protection for him. Final Strike is nice. Wormtongue can ensure that Durin won't just punch him in the face, Southron Leader is decent at dealing with multi culture brokennes. Saruman's Power could be packed also. I don't understand why you run more Black Steed than The Pale Blade, feels like TPB is a superior draw every single time (given you have the extra twilight).

Not a huge fan of Morgul Destroyer to be honest. A smart player would always just wound his RB and then you spent 2 twilight and a card slot on a vanilla orc for 1 wound. If you want to run him anyway I'd at least suggest to add Dark as Darkness, so you can preassure your opponent towards adding threats at least a tiny bit.

Some nazzy rings from reflections probably have place here as well, they cycle very easily, make the WK a bit stronger and enable you to reuse him easily. I'd say a ring is strictly better in a 64 cards deck than the 4th copy of Evil-Smelling Fens, at the very least.

« Last Edit: October 01, 2017, 04:07:28 AM by Shelobplayer »

October 02, 2017, 03:40:40 AM
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Gaurwaith

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Re: Gollum Witch King
« Reply #13 on: October 02, 2017, 03:40:40 AM »
You are right I am banking a lot on WK but so far it worked quite well. With the last Version I won on Gemp 5 out of 7 matched and I got some compliments for an impressive WK gameplay :). I also play it with one of the stronger fellowships, so I am not sure if that is pushing the winning rate up.

I play more Black Steed then The Pale Blade because I use in more then 50% one threat to get back The Pale Blade and then it is nice to have an additional Black Steed on the hand but it is also possible to change it the other way round.

Durin is a Problem. Usually I handled with him with Stricken Dumb. Even Durin has some problems to kill a 21 Str WK and even more when he looses his Battle Axe. So far I liked the Morgul Destroyer because I used him already once or twice to overwhelm the Ringbearer or a week companion. Together with 3-4 threats he can be really nasty. But I will try a version without:

-3 Morgul Destroyer
-1 Evil-Smelling Fens

and therefore:

+2 Grima, Wormtongue
+1 Southron Leader or Ulaire Enquea, Lieutenant of Morgul
+1 Final Strike or Saruman's Power or a Ring

Which ring would you play? I´ll write again when i play-tested it a little bit. Thank you so far for all your comments and help to improve my Deck, I appreciate this a lot :)

« Last Edit: October 02, 2017, 03:47:52 AM by Gaurwaith »

October 02, 2017, 05:22:31 PM
Reply #14

ket_the_jet

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Re: Gollum Witch King
« Reply #14 on: October 02, 2017, 05:22:31 PM »
Grima, Wormtongue is worthless against 75% of [Dwarven] decks. Slaked Thirsts takes him out too quickly.

A copy or two of Houses of Lamentation, retrievable with the Witch-King's Text, might be a nice fit too.
-wtk