Hobbit Game on Gemp - Current Status and Bugs

[Durin's Heir]

NEWS: The new Constructed Restriction list was just implemented! It gives true freedom for players, and new players won't be repeled or hindered anymore by a lengthy list. Magnificent!

--------

I'm honoured to carry the news to you all, that the Hobbit Draft Game is finally on Gemp! Cheers!  

But being its implementation still in development, it still has some bugs. So this will be the place where the current state of things will be informed to the public. And if someone wants to lend in a hand and help to find errors, you'd be very welcome to submit here any bug you catch.

The info is divided in 3 categories: 1) rules, 2) card restrictions, and 3) current bugs.


1) Rules: The rules are exactly the same as FotR block (the simplest and earliest of formats), except for the addition of followers (which came much later). Besides that:
    - followers have a race, which provides more interaction (like "spot X Dwarves"),
    - Bilbo doesn't start with The One Ring (which is a FP artifact here),
    - some terms changed names (only in card images) but the functionality is the same: Bilbo is your "burglar" instead of your "Ring-bearer," and "burdens" are called "doubts."

That's all about rule differences.


2) Card Restrictions: Some few cards are restricted to 1x or 2x maximum copies. That's meant to reduce overpowered combos, which simply cannot occur in the much more limited Draft Format where the game was born.

FREE PEOPLES:

* Shire:
    - 1x •Bilbo as "Burglar" (and 0x in draw deck).
    - 1x •The One Ring
    - 2x An Acorn from Beorn's House

* Dwarven:
    - 1x of each Dwarf companion: •Thorin, •Balin, •Dwalin, •Nori, •Glóin, •Kili, •Fili.
    - 1x of 3 followers: •Dori, •Bifur, •Bombur.
    - 2x Dwarven Axe
    - 2x Ancestral Knowledge

* Gandalf:
    - 1x •Gandalf in total (regardless of subtitles).
    - 1x •Beorn, Skin-Changer
    - 1x •Glamdring
    - 1x The Eagles Are Coming

SHADOW:

* Smaug (new culture):
    - 1x •Smaug, The Golden
    - 1x •The Arkenstone, King's Jewel

So every card not mentioned here has a maximum of (you guessed right!) 4 copies!


3) Current Bugs: Some cards don't work as they should. Bugs listed in blue were fixed in code and are waiting only for a server update; bugs listed in red still haven't been worked in code.

Free Peoples:
   - Gandalf, Leader of the Company and Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves lack the Wise keyword.
   - He Gives Me Courage can exert Gandalf event if you cannot exert an Wise ally (removes no burden).
   - Beorn can be discarded, whether borne or not.
   - Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves discards NO follower when returning from discard pile.
   - Dawn Take You All delivers NO wound if all minions are exhausted.
   - The Eagles Are Coming cannot attach a follower.

Shadow:
   - Goblin Song makes you pay the regular cost before the special cost, when played from discard pile.
   - Riddles in the Dark prompts "Would you like to - null to prevent - Choose a SHIRE card."
   - Caught in a Sack should be unique.

Sites:
   - Site 2 Trollshaw Forest sometimes cannot be used by one or both players.


-----------------


- Fixed Bugs log:

* Nov 13, 2017:
   - All the 13 Missing Cards were included. Cheers!
   - Fixed Gandalf, Friend of Thorin's gametext.
   - Fixed Smaug's self-discard (when not at an underground).
   - Fixed Elrond's subtitle and self-healing (could heal once only per turn).
   - Fixed twilight cost: The One Ring, Caught in a Sack and Fimbul.
   - Fixed twilight cost reduction: Smaug, Spider Nest and Crazy Cob.
   - Fixed wrong phase: Tauriel and Watchful Orc (regroup); Dawn Take You All (maneuver).
   - Fixed exertion cost: Thranduil and Threatening Warg (only once); Caught in a Sack and Enchanted River (discarded even when exerting).
   - Fixed effect's duration: Gollum (same phase) and Caught in a Sack (end of the turn).
   - Fixed strength bonus: of Noble Intentions (+5); Oakenshield and Gollum (+0).
   - Fixed playing from discard: Goblin Song, Gandalf Leader of Dwarves and site 5 Old Forest Road.
   - Fixed wrong targets of AWINL, Wizard Staff, Not At Home and Anger.
   - Fixed race: Goblin Runner.
   - Fixed revealing hand on the Great Goblin.
   - Fixed Thorin's resistance.
   - Fixed sites: site 4 Underground Lake and site 5 Old Forest Road.

* Nov 13-14: very short lived bugs:
   - Fixed game crashes: Gwaihir (if was used from support area); Great Barricade and Ancestral Knowledge (tried to exert Dwarf followers).
   - Fixed wrong phase: Bolg, Servant of Sauron.
   - Fixed Burglar's Contract (the skirmish skill couldn't be used).

* Nov 23-24:
   - Fixed game crashes: Battle of Azanulbizar (tried to exert Dwarf followers); Emeralds of Girion (if there was no Man); Crazy Cob (if an Orc was killed).
   - Fixed limits: Bilbo, Reliable Companion; Rhudaur; Underground Lake .
   - Fixed wrong targets: Smaug, The Evil Becomes Stronger and He Gives Me Courage.
   - Fixed Site 8 Smaug's Den.
   - Fixed wrong phase trigger: The Arkenstone, King's Jewel (start of maneuver).
   - Fixed twilight addition: Mithril Coat.
   - Fixed twilight cost: If He Loses.
   - Fixed strength modifying skills: Bilbo, Master in Riddles; Wicked Spider.
   - Fixed Old Thrush (could self-discard from support area).
   - Fixed Bert (triggered to discarding by the Shadow player).

* Jan 4, 2018:
   - Added a limit for Ancestral Feuds.
   - Fixed Beorn's discard negation.
   - Fixed wrong player's decision: Tauriel (Shadow player decided).
   - Fixed strength modifiers: Bilbo, Master in Riddles (-4 by a single use) and Battle Fury (+4 with non- followers).
   - Fixed twilight cost: Dori (), Dwarven Song () and Great Barricade ().
   - Fixed Thranduil's skil (allowed him to take archery wounds).
   - Fixed wrong phase: Nori (Skirmish instead of Maneuver).

                                      ...and we're still working for the Greater Good.

-----------------                                                                           (the Greater Good!)

That's all by now. Please comment, and lend us your aid!

And feel free to experience the Hobbit Draft Game on Gemp.

[Durin's Heir]

"Game was cancelled due to an error, the error was logged and will be fixed soon.
Please post the replay game link and description of what happened on the TLHH forum."

Have you ever received this happy message? Here's the thread to post the replay links, and this is the post where I compile them all!

...

Crashed Games (6 links by now):
            (the order is NOT chronological, there is no order actually, the numbers are merely to identify them)

1.- deckhunter vs Makinwa: On Makinwa's site 8. (No Bolg/Great Goblin)
2.- daisukeman vs botox600: On botox600's site 4. (Great Goblin vs Dwalin)
3.- daisukeman vs Caram: On Caram's site 6. (No Bolg/Great Goblin)
4.- LlamaHero vs Chrom: On LlamaHero's site 3. (Bolg vs Thorin)
5.- deckhunter vs Caram: On deckhunter's site 7. (Great Goblin vs Gandalf)
6.- DurinsHeir vs JimSawyer: On my site 4. (Bolg vs Thorin)

Most of them involve Bolg OR the Great Goblin. I suspected it had to do with the fierce keyword, since the GG is naturally fierce and Bolg often mounts a Warg; but game #4 shows both Thorin and Bolg barehanded and unmounted.

Still, games #1 and #3 do not involve those cost unique Orcses. #1 has 2 fierce minions (a Spider & Smaug), while #3 has none...

Quite strange.

[Phallen Cassidy]

Here's what I've gathered:

•Fimbil twilight's cost is  erroneously 3, rather than 2
•Goblin Runner was erroneously given the race of "Goblin," rather than "Orc," breaking most interactions with this card (Other Orcs should respond properly)
•Noble Intentions grants +5 strength to Bilbo, rather than +3
•Not at Home may place any card at the top of the draw deck, rather than just Shadow cards

[Durin's Heir]

Alright, added them to the list. Forgot totally the Not At Home one!


Hobbit_Lad's 2E has the commoners with the race of Goblin. Perhaps that's the origin of the confusion.


EDIT: Spider Nest, Crazy Cob and Enchanted River are added to the list.

[MarcinS]

Just to report real quick - "Better Than Nothing" is currently bugged, so that it crashes the game, do not include it in your deck.

[Durin's Heir]

I added it at the start of the 1st post...

Still, it must be under certain circumstances, 'cause Enola played it vs me in the very 1st match, and it didn't crash. Here's the replay (be patient, he used it at site 8!): http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=DurinsHeir$e40itplke4nacmvw

[MarcinS]

Also, Thranduil allows to be activated when you can exert Thorin once only.

[Durin's Heir]

Added each and every discordance in maximum copies allowed, per card.

Alright, added that Thranduil bug.

Deeply thanks for all your time and effort!

[MarcinS]

I've fixed all card bugs reported so far in code, not on the website yet. I'll wait a bit for some more reports to come in.

https://github.com/MarcinSc/gemp-lotr/commits/master

[-Enola-]

Great news!

The new link of Smaug's Den is now
http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Cards_Good_def/8_Smaug_s_den.png

For the maximum number of cards allowed, the best way for players to handle it is to make the Hobbit only a My cards format and give each player this number of copies for each card. That way, player will know how much copies they can put in their deck.

Gandalf, Friend of Thorin is different from last year (it was the only change among the existing cards). So the card doesn't work in the right way.

[Durin's Heir]

How could I forget the Gandalf FoT change? Added it above to the bugs, in red.

Also, checked each and every card title in the deckbuilder (FP, Shadow and site), to measure their answer to their proper names. Only 1 card failed: Elrond, who answers well to the title, but rather to the subtitle "Herald to Gil-Galad"! Added it above to the bugs, in blue.


I like the idea of a fixed My Cards collection. But those would need to be excluded from the Merchant (from selling and buying; showing is innocuous). Also, might be better that those cards are delivered in single a pack to each player, so only active players open their respective pack; I believe that might save some server disk and/or transfer resources (but I'm guessing again).

[Phallen Cassidy]

Corrected Elrond, Elven Lord and the card restrictions. Fixed Troll Campfire spot cost.

Caught in a Sack discards a Troll, rather than exerting him

[Durin's Heir]

Added Caught in a Sack to the list above, in red. (Since new detected bugs are few, all will be in colors so it's easier to get updated.)

When correcting it, the options must be "exert a [Troll] cultured Troll" or "discard a minion." Not "exert any Troll," because the Extensions #2 and #3 will too have Trolls present but ones, and the Sack provides too much power to a Swarm having Trolls (so then must discard a swarming minion).


In Card Restrictions, does 1x copy of Gandalf/Bilbo exclude the other versions? (It's not enough to add them to the R-list.) If not, that'd be the only thing left respecting the 1st list. Seems like the lists 1 and 3 will be very empty after the next reset.

But the list 2 (Missing Cards) is still unworked.

--------------

EDIT: Dictionary and I playtested, and found 2 bugs. (Both happened on cards under Dictionary's control, so his replay in more valious than mine.)

- Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves doesn't play himself from discard pile. Dictionary had 2 Dwarf followers in play at site 5, and still could never replay him there or onwards.
- Caught in a Sack's effect lasted until the end of the turn (should last only during that assignment). Apparently, it's Shelob, Her Ladyship's code. It was used on Dwalin at the non-fierce assignment at site 9, and he was still blocked at the fierce one. Moreover, Fili was "caught" at site 8 (fierce assignment) and couldn't fight at all at site 9!

Here's the replay.

Also, we found 2 good things: 1) Goblin Runner cannot spot himself to add , which is the way it was always meant; and 2) I used Anger to pump a site (Esgaroth was strength +2!)... but still, the game didn't crash!

[Dictionary]

In a game with Durin's Heir, we found Caught in a Sack lasts until end of turn, rather than for 1 assignment (See replay at site 9). Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves was not replayable (Site 6). Also Sack's prompt says "null to prevent null"

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=Dictionary$6u2gbuzg6r712kjm

[Durin's Heir]

Found another one: Thorin's resistance is strangely always 0 (while all other and companions have a base of 6).

That matters absolutely nothing by now, but if someday in the far future "the cards of the Hobbit and the Lord of the Rings will be able to be played together at a table of brotherhood," then it will need to be fixed. So let's not leave for tomorrow what we can fix today!

[Dictionary]

It appears Caught in a Sack also costs 0 twilight, rather than 2.

[Durin's Heir]

True, we both played it at Region 3 Region 1, and never removed any twilight when doing so. Added.

[Deckhunter]

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=deckhunter$z2ugvij8ztfgrr0p

at site seven after gandalf's skirmish with the great goblin began it gave an error message saying it should be posted here, not sure what triggered it.

Also, the ring's twilight cost seems to be two when it should be zero, and watchful orc's ability works in the regroup phase.

Hope this helps.

Edit: Troll Campfire also says it can be played without spotting a troll.

[botox600]

Why to play Enchanted River you dont have to spot spider?

[Phallen Cassidy]

Almost fixed Caught in a Sack (prompt will still say "null to prevent null"), corrected Troll Knife and The One Ring twilight cost, corrected Tauriel (previously, she had a regroup action returning any minion of strength 6 or less to owner's hand).

I'm not currently able to tinker with allowing only 1 copy of any Bilbo or Gandalf - too many moving parts. MarcinS could take a look at it, otherwise I hadn't considered it a big deal for now.

All card limit issues should be fixed. Once the last 13 cards are implemented, the current plan is that packs with the legal limit for The Hobbit will be available in the Merchant.

[Chrispy77]

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=LlamaHero$odh9nj394lyig3sp

Replay link of game ending in an error when Theorin skirmishes Bolg

[Zeispharn]

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=Zeispharn$4tzoh0pkkmmwpgt7

New bugs found during this game:
- Dawn Take You All! is playable only in manoeuver, should be in skirmish
- Gandalf, Friend to Thorin is discarded by site 5 even if he can spot 2 dwarven followers
- Wizard Staff takes spells from discard, should be from deck

[Deckhunter]

Another error message at site eight, but no great goblin or bolg. Smaug was out and it happened at the beginning of the skirmish phase, but other than that I'm not sure what it could be.

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=deckhunter$82z7hkm1kszn99px

[Durin's Heir]

Made again the List #1 (Card Restrictions), it's now much more friendly AND doesn't require you to open Enola's list and compare.

All new bugs mentioned by @Deckhunter, @Zeispharn and @Phallen were added to the 1st post.

@Deckhunter's finding of Watchful Orc's bug is encouraging: after reading the code (I am no programmer) I was sure it was coded to work during the wrong phase... the only question was if it was coded to work well (regardless of phase). And that happens to be affirmative!

I'm not currently able to tinker with allowing only 1 copy of any Bilbo or Gandalf - too many moving parts. MarcinS could take a look at it, otherwise I hadn't considered it a big deal for now.

Bilbo is not so important, other copies can only heal him (and Lore of Imladris/Elrond/Óin are much better in such task). Gandalf is different: other copies allow him to be replaced after he's discarded, and surprisingly that might even be a virtue and not a failure, since AWINL doesn't play him from discard and Beorn's House & Radagast are absent: those 3 cards were meant to recover Gandalf, or prevent him from disappearing. So in my opinion by now.

Why to play Enchanted River you dont have to spot spider?

Good question. That's due to the randomness of the original Draft format. Enchanted River is part of a thematic "Supplementary Pack" (each of which has 6 FP cards, 2 Shadow ones and 1 site), portraying a specific conflict or subplot of the Quest. Those packs are picked randomly in the Draft, and the same goes with the Shadow Packs. So the Shadow cards in the Supplementary Packs must never depend on specific cultures or cards of a Shadow Pack.

But we made them work better when combined with a Shadow Pack of the same "theme" or "plot." So Enchanted River (Wizard Pack) can be used by any Shadow deck, except that Spiders use it better. Caught in a Sack too comes in a Supplementary Pack (Bilbo Pack), so any culture can use it but the 3 Trolls pay a much softer cost (and helps them twice per site by being fierce).



Thanks to everyone for your time playtesting and posting!

I think I'll be adding each Crashed Game replay link at the bottom of the first second post, just gimme some time.

EDIT: Done. 2nd post, not 1st.

[MarcinS]

Fixed (in code) all the bugs in the list so far, including new link to the "Smaug's Den", as well as fully implemented the deck validation for Hobbit (including special Bilbo and Gandalf uniqueness) and format description.

I'll work on adding the missing cards now, and will restart the server when I'm finished.

[MarcinS]

(Online) All the reported bugs have been fixed, format rules have been fixed and are displaying in format list, missing cards have been added.

I'm going through the error log now, and noticed that "Gwaihir" is causing errors, if it is not attached to anything and activated it's Skirmish ability. Will be fixed on next restart.

[daisukeman]

Hi All,
After successful bug-fixing, these were encountered Nov 14-2017, based on this replay link:
http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=daisukeman$uzdct4j6ifn9wodj

1. Crazy cob is not working.
Orcs were killed and discarded but nothing triggered.
Regarding this I have a question: stacking orcs in goblin swarms would count? I would prefer it doesn't, but anyway..

2. Site 4 Underground lake does not apply the once per turn limit (for shadow player).

3. Bolg servant of sauron will highlight in shadow, and assignment phases. Though, unaware of what it is it could do, but there was nothing else it should from my perspective.

4. Game finished abruptedly with the cancelling thing. This time in fellowship phase (not even assigning to a minion).

Keep up the great effort and work!

[Deckhunter]

The game got an error after playing ancestral knowledge. Twice.

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=deckhunter$yk3ixi4frqzu2oey

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=deckhunter$ylbmm5ui57yygp0z

[MarcinS]

daisukeman:
1. I've fixed it, so you should be able to play a minion from hand if an Orc is killed, this should have worked for being discarded already. The reason it did not seem to work in your replay when you were discarding Orcs, was that you did not have a minion you could play in your hand at the time. (at least the times I've seen).
2. It does apply it, but the limit applies to playing the card from deck, and NOT to activating the ability. In other words, you can activate it as many times as you wish, it just won't do anything.
3. This is already fixed.

As always, fixes will be live after next server restart.

[MarcinS]

The game got an error after playing ancestral knowledge. Twice.

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=deckhunter$yk3ixi4frqzu2oey

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=deckhunter$ylbmm5ui57yygp0z

Fixed (after restart):
- "Ancestral Knowledge" no longer crashes the game, when a Dwarf follower is present.

[daisukeman]

Great, thanks MarcinS.

Though, regarding #2, I do think I would have been erroneously able to play another condition (because the cards show up).
I didn't as a gentleman's code, but now I think it wouldve been better for testing purposes.
At this replay link:
http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=daisukeman$zl70vcqx5fcpb84t
you can see how site 3 also would seem to allow this.

From this newer link, I'm also reporting an issue with site2 which didn't let me pick glamdring or sting, or orcrist or a dwarven axe. Apparently because I chose first the "at the start of maneuver phase.." action from a follower and not from the site.

Cheers!

[-Enola-]

I corrected the text of Forest River, Goblin Runner and Beorn.

[Phallen Cassidy]

Better than Nothing seems to work as intended, but Battle of Anulzibar will cause a game-ending error until the next reset.

Corrected twilight cost for If He Loses (is currently 1, rather than 2)

[Dictionary]

In a test game with Sibiatu, Emeralds of Girion (Regroup) caused a crash.

I think there were no Men to exert (Or even spot), but it was usable regardless?

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=Dictionary$z68mu47vmbe8g61d

EDIT: Fix submitted by Phallen.

[daisukeman]

This one just to insist, that site 3 and 4 are both bugged in the sense that neither considers the "once per turn limit".
For example this time, I purposedly played 2 conditions:
http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=daisukeman$xhqea4acdtcp1spc

[daisukeman]

Hi All,
Nori doesn't seem to work:
http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=daisukeman$iinn6v7uk9sl2poq

Regards,

[MarcinS]

Hi All,
Nori doesn't seem to work:
http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=daisukeman$iinn6v7uk9sl2poq

Regards,

The card image says "Maneuver", but the card text that was sent to us says "Skirmish", so the question is - is it intended to be Maneuver or Skirmish?

[Durin's Heir]

Nori was always meant to work during Maneuver.

Updated the Bugged Cards list. Found 2 when watching replays: Beorn gets discarded by Shadow cards, and Ancestral Knowledge's "limit -3" doesn't apply.

I believe the new bug with limits for LOTR TCG sites (the Nazgul Swarm at Ford of Bruinen) can be related to the lack of limit for Hobbit cards like sites 2 and 4 (Trollshaw Forest and Underground Lake) and Ancestral Feuds.

1. Crazy cob is not working.
Orcs were killed and discarded but nothing triggered.

Works correctly. Says "play a Spider" without a surname, so that always means from hand (and you had none). Last Days has the same wording and creates the same confusion.

Regarding this I have a question: stacking orcs in goblin swarms would count? I would prefer it doesn't, but anyway..

"Stack" and "discard" are different actions, so should never count.

[Phallen Cassidy]

"Bilbo, Reliable Companion" currently doesn't have a limit to the number of times he can reconcile

[Dictionary]

Site 4 - Couldn't kill an exhausted Bolg with Dawn Take you All when he was alone. Seems to be same issue as Deathless Lord (Can't kill an exhausted, solitary ally even when all companions are exhausted).

Site 4 - Couldn't attach newly played follower with The Eagles are Coming - Is this intended?

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=Dictionary$yomgijyjni4niw22

[Eowyn_M_W]

Just tried to play Dawn Take You All and it didn't wound the minion. It could be because the minion only had one vitality left - I'm not sure if that's a bug or intended?

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=Eowyn M W$mxlad0idspa6fcf7

(Doing two archery was a deliberate test. Not a mistake at all).

[mathes]

just found a bug during a game - the game got cancelled

https://i.nyx.cz/files/00/00/17/75/1775244_e7313ab46c7b4993d439.png?name=image.png

[Durin's Heir]

@mathes: It's a known bug with Battle of Azanulbizar. It's due to followers now having a race... The fix is already done, only waiting for the next server restart. Thanks for your collaboration!

@Phallen: A lot of troubles have appeared recently with limits on cards (like the "Nazgul Swarm at the Ford"). So I believe it's another effect of that bug in Gemp's general code (and not a bug in the card's own code).

@Dictionary: Yes, the Eagles Are Coming is failing to attach a follower, that's by no means intended.

Dawn Take You All is worded exactly like the ally part of Deathless Lord, so it's probably as you say (a bug in Gemp's general code about *choosing the option that can be completed most) and not a bug with the card's code.

* "If the effect of a card or special ability requires you to choose one of two different actions, you must choose an action that you are fully capable of performing (if possible)." (Comprehensive Rules 4)

(Doing two archery was a deliberate test. Not a mistake at all).

Thanks Eowyn for the experiment. That's the right spirit!


Dawn Takes You All is now added to the bugs list. All the others were already present, but anyway your help gives us more information to track their roots. Thanks again!

[Dictionary]

Same replay, noticing Riddles in the Dark prompt is "Would you like to - null to prevent - Choose a SHIRE card" and He Gives Me Courage seemed willing to exert non- Wise allies.

[daisukeman]

Thanks DurinsHeir.
Though, I did think "dawn take you all" was intended to NOT work if the minion has 1 vitality.

[Chrispy77]

I didn't see this bug on here so I thought I'd mention it-

Mithril coat doesn't make If he loses cost 2 extra twilight

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=LlamaHero$n2hpy2imdb4wycv0

Reference gollum skirmish at site 6

[Phallen Cassidy]

I didn't see this bug on here so I thought I'd mention it-

Mithril coat doesn't make If he loses cost 2 extra twilight

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=LlamaHero$n2hpy2imdb4wycv0

Reference gollum skirmish at site 6

Fixed

[Durin's Heir]

Though, I did think "dawn take you all" was intended to NOT work if the minion has 1 vitality.

No, if all minions have only 1 vitality, you choose one and it gets wounded. That happens once most of the times, but if the 1st wound is prevented, you'd be wounding it once again.


Which reminds me that LOTR TCG's Have Patience is bugged. It should allow you to heal only UB companions with 2+ wounds, except if all UB companions have 1 or less wounds each. (Currently allows to heal an UB companion with 1 wound even if there is another one with 2+)

Talking about LOTR TCG bugs, the Weta Collection (Tom Bombadil's Hat, Anarion, Ghan-buri-Ghan, Radagast's Staff & Erkenbrand) should be added to the "Additional Valid" list of Movie Block format! (that's the way Decipher intended it)


EDIT: Updated the Bugs list.

I'd like to see somebody confirming this: LlamaHero says If He Loses can be played from discard with Gollum, even if he cannot exert twice.

[Eowyn_M_W]

I discarded two cards with Bilbo, Master of Riddles to make Gollum -2 and it made him -4. It happened twice in one game (different turns), so I think it's a bug.

[Phallen Cassidy]

I discarded two cards with Bilbo, Master of Riddles to make Gollum -2 and it made him -4. It happened twice in one game (different turns), so I think it's a bug.

Fixed this and He Gives Me Courage, as well as card quantities

[Legion]

Talking about LOTR TCG bugs, the Weta Collection (Tom Bombadil's Hat, Anarion, Ghan-buri-Ghan, Radagast's Staff & Erkenbrand) should be added to the "Adittional Valid" list of Movie Block format! (that's the way Decipher intended it)

A bit off topic, but if that was the case, the companions wouldn't have resistance. Especially Erkenbrand not getting the standard 6.

[Dictionary]

Bert, Troll of Ettenmoors can discard an ally when the Shadow player discards his own condition.

[daisukeman]

Wicked spider always gives a +5 bonus.. counts erroneously the number of comps.
Here at site 5 and at 7:
http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=daisukeman$3j0mpstejce4edf6

[Chrispy77]

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=LlamaHero$qgv6mwfvfyuawqe5

Smaug let me discard throrin, despite his text saying you cant discard a companion.

[Chrispy77]

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=LlamaHero$qgv6mwfvfyuawqe5

Smaug let me discard throrin, despite his text saying you cant discard a companion.

[Durin's Heir]

@Chrispy77: Wow, didn't notice that huge bug with Smaug before! I just checked again the replay of the very 1st Hobbit game on Gemp (Enola vs me, Nov 10) and the bug was present since then, just that no one realized or reported.


Added all those bugs:
 - Smaug discards ANY FP card,
 - Wicked Spider always gives +5 str,
 - Bert can trigger when the Shadow player discards a condition,
 - Bilbo, Master of Riddles makes Gollum str -4 with one use only.


Thank you all for your time and care!

[Dictionary]

Leader of Dwarves can exert while exhausted, and although he can now play himself from discard, he doesn't discard any followers!

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=Dictionary$jxfqjz9jlsu8gqxb

[Durin's Heir]

Added Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves to the bugs list. Also, while watching your replay noticed that Old Thrush's maneuver skill can be used even if is not attached to any companion, which goes against Decipher's rules (and has never been intended or played that way with real cards):

"While your follower is in your support area, it has no effect on the game... When your follower is borne by a companion, that follower will provide an ongoing effect or a special ability that may then be used." (Hunters Starting Rulebook)

That is a general bug in the way all followers work, and not a bug specifically on this or that follower (though only some followers have texts that -along with this bug- allow them to be used even when not attached; by now only Old Thrush and Gwaihir, but Röac will have the same treat). It was added too to the bugs list.


(Since most followers refer in their skills merely to bearer, may be easier to detect those that are now working from support area and fix their codes individually, instead of reformulating the whole general Gemp rule about followers. If so, it must be held in mind when coding the new followers for the next Extension Sets.)

[daisukeman]

Site 8 doesn't let you play Smaug from deck (it does from discard)...
http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=daisukeman$o89arhfbt40w3qpk

[Durin's Heir]

That's a known bug, a nasty one also! It's fix is waiting only for the next server restart (it's listed in blue in the 1st post).

[daisukeman]

cool!
while we are fixing stuff..this one is a bit silly but should be easy to adjust (caught in a sack's final text):

[Dictionary]

Thranduil participates in Archery Fire and Skirmishes (according to his in-game data), rather than just skirmishes.
Tauriel lets the shadow player choose which minion is returned.

I would like to clarify that The Evil Becomes Stronger affects all allies (I know non-archers were already mentioned) - was this completely fixed when the code was changed?

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=Dictionary$ga2k6xlglnkonols

[daisukeman]

Same game as above, "different perspective"   : http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=daisukeman$6r7wipg912zpqipn.

But, this time I'm reporting that site 2 didn't let me play a troll knife.
Site 2 fails to often for me as a shadow player, so it's not only with the troll knife. I've come to the conclusion that this fails whenever the fps has more than 1 "at the start of maneuver" action and performs them both.
Seems like the bug is counting that 2 actions were already done so no more "at the start of maneuver" should happen.
Whereas I also think (correct me if I'm wrong) that such "at the start" timing should be intertwined, between fps and shadow (first fps choose one action, then shadow, then fps, etc).

Also, I've got this question:
Is it OK/intended that site 5 doesn't prevent gandalf/elven allies from skirmishing fierce rounds? The site says "a skirmish" so I'm unsure...

Thanks!

[daisukeman]

hey, we're getting much closer now! good job!
still have a few things to report:


1. (old thrush): apparently his maneuver ability can't be used unless his aid cost is paid. is this intended/ok?

2. (old thrush + battle fury): gives a +4 bonus even though the event demands a dwarven follower.

3. (minor label bug): this was from last time, not sure if it was fixed. see image:



link: http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=daisukeman$i7tf7g5m8lj5oag9

[Chrispy77]

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=LlamaHero$c960wujkn0ti9rps

Another bug discovered- Nori's ability should only apply to manuever phase, but in the game above you can see Nori's ability is used at site 7 during a skirmish phase

[Durin's Heir]

I'm sorry for this delay, been busy and tired. Here goes:


@Chrispy77: Added Nori to the Bugs list.

@Dictionary: The Evil Becomes Stronger was fixed by MarcinS and Phallen. Tauriel apparently was copied from Elven Rope, while Thranduil's problem* comes from the lack of a Gemp function to allow an ally only to participate in skirmishes (without archery); added them to the list.

* I recall dmaz saying there was no such function, when fixing a bug with Dunlending Ravager: the Ravager didn't really allow the ally to participate in assignment actions, but merely assigned the ally to himself (the bug was detected 'cause Bill Ferny could NOT join the fight). Dmaz used then the function of Horn of Boromir (which includes Archery phase, but being past-Archery that's simply ignored), and so he fixed the Ravager. But that's not enough for Thranduil (and "Former Herald" Roäc in the next Extension). And is totally intentional that Thranduil can fight but NOT take arrows.


@daisukeman: Post #1: Forest River lasts only during the phase it was used, so is totally ok that Thranduil & Army were able to defend at the fierce assignment.

Post #2: 1) Yes, Old Thrush works only when attached. That's how Decipher ruled for followers: "While your follower is in your support area, it has no effect on the game... When your follower is borne by a companion, that follower will provide an ongoing effect or a special ability that may then be used." (Hunters Starter Rulebook)

2) Battle Fury's slightly bugged then. Added to the list.

3) Hmm, that wasn't fixed...

...site 2 didn't let me play a Troll Knife...  I've come to the conclusion that this fails whenever the FP has more than 1 "at the start of maneuver" action and performs them both...

Interesting theory! I believe the same now that you mention so.

Whereas I also think (correct me if I'm wrong) that such "at the start" timing should be intertwined, between fps and shadow (first fps choose one action, then shadow, then fps, etc).

You're right, optional actions are always intercalated, being 1st the FP player (while required actions' order is decided solely by the FP player).



Thank you all for your collaboration.

[daisukeman]

Thanks a lot!

@daisukeman: Post #1: Forest River lasts only during the phase it was used, so Thranduil & Son should have been able to defend at the fierce assignment. Added to the list.

Understood, so exerting two times (at different stages of assignment phases), will not allow Gandalf to fight any skirmish, right?

Post #2: 1) Yes, Old Thrush works only when attached. That's how Decipher ruled for followers: "While your follower is in your support area, it has no effect on the game... When your follower is borne by a companion, that follower will provide an ongoing effect or a special ability that may then be used." (Hunters Starter Rulebook)

Still learning, more so about followers which were post-shadows.
I guess other followers were not ambiguous because they usually have an ability related to their "bearer", so there's no room for misinterpretation.

[Durin's Heir]

Understood, so exerting two times (at different stages of assignment phases), will not allow Gandalf to fight any skirmish, right?

Yes, once per each assignment phase you want to unable that eligible character.

Still learning, more so about followers which were post-shadows.
I guess other followers were not ambiguous because they usually have an ability related to their "bearer", so there's no room for misinterpretation.

True, all Decipher followers refer to "bearer", or to "when/each time you attach/transfer this follower" so they don't need additional coding to block them from working from support area... except only for Celebring, who has a "when you play" trigger.

Röac will need too to be coded to work only when borne.

[Durin's Heir]

Creator just reported this (thanks mate!):

"[Nov 27 03:32:27*] Creator: Bug Report: Underground Lake only lets Shadow player play a condition from Discard pile, not Draw Deck."

* Server time.

[-Enola-]

The Restrited list seems a bit too complicated for new players. I don't know if it will be balanced but here's a proposition to make the format rules simpler:

Each main deck card in 4x and all Shadow cards in Swarm Pack and Beatdown Pack in 4x

R-list:
Bilbo (+restriction by name)
Gandalf (+restriction by name)
each Dwarf companion
each Dwarf follower
Elrond
Bard
The One Ring
Glamdring
Orcrist
Sting
Smaug
all cards from Supplementary packs (ex: Ridlles in the Dark, Beorn,....)

[Not a Zombie]

It would be simple to figure out if the quantities that show up in the collection for each card line up with the max allowed per deck.

[Durin's Heir]

It would be simple to figure out if the quantities that show up in the collection for each card line up with the max allowed per deck.

Great idea. That'd need to be fixed in All Cards to be easier to correct later if needed. Currently Gemp does that with sites in All Cards, so perhaps is not so hard to do for Draw Deck cards in the Hobbit.

The Restrited list seems a bit too complicated for new players.

What I've found is that people don't really want to play a simulation-of-Draft format... they just want the freedom of Constructed. Let Draft be a format by itself (like a Sealed league, or MarcinS' idea of Heathstone's drafting) and give more freedom to players. But still, restricting some cards is really important to balance the format. So this is what I'd do, as a first experiment:

* Most things as Enola says:
   - R-list: Smaug; Bilbo and Gandalf (by name); each Dwarf companion and follower; each Main Deck artifact.
   - each other Main Deck card (all FP events and all other Shadow cards) max 4x.
   - each card in Shadow Packs 4x.

* Differences:
   1.- Main Deck allies 4x
   2.- All cards in Supplementary packs 2x.

1.- Restricting those 2 allies makes little sense to me. They will have AWINL so it's the same as happens with LOTR TCG decks with heavy character presence: they tend to use only 1x of each ally, while packing 3x or 4x AWINL. Bard would get some discard-to-heal potential (and Elrond, but doesn't need it).

2.- Restricting the cards in Supplementary Packs to 1x is too much. 6 are FP and only 2 Shadow in each, and thus those FP cards have the important role of countering the Shadow's power (of the now totally unleashed Shadow Packs). So 2x to all them.

Also, having 1x only of a card makes often ureliable to build a deck around it. Some cards can be fetched, but you simply cannot base your deck around Skillful Negociator or Burglar's Contract, if everything depends on drawing that solitary copy. Possessions and events are the most crippled by that restriction, as there's nothing to fetch events, while only 1 possession weapon can be searched by Site 2 (but at the expense of not playing an artifact weapon). Also, a 2nd copy of an ally will allow some degree of healing.


Just saying.

[Phallen Cassidy]

Fixed Nori, Battle Fury, and Tauriel. Attempted fix for Beorn. Got some ideas on a few of the others, but it'll be a while before I can look at them with much scrutiny.

Are you certain about Underground Lake? The same function which plays The One Ring from the draw deck is used to play conditions from the draw deck, and I think I've had no problem playing conditions from the draw deck myself using that card. Is there a replay available?

[-Enola-]

* Differences:
   1.- Main Deck allies 4x
   2.- All cards in Supplementary packs 2x.

1.- Restricting those 2 allies makes little sense to me. They will have AWINL so it's the same as happens with LOTR TCG decks with heavy character presence: they tend to use only 1x of each ally, while packing 3x or 4x AWINL. Bard would get some discard-to-heal potential (and Elrond, but doesn't need it).

2.- Restricting the cards in Supplementary Packs to 1x is too much. 6 are FP and only 2 Shadow in each, and thus those FP cards have the important role of countering the Shadow's power (of the now totally unleashed Shadow Packs). So 2x to all them.

Also, having 1x only of a card makes often ureliable to build a deck around it. Some cards can be fetched, but you simply cannot base your deck around Skillful Negociator or Burglar's Contract, if everything depends on drawing that solitary copy. Possessions and events are the most crippled by that restriction, as there's nothing to fetch events, while only 1 possession weapon can be searched by Site 2 (but at the expense of not playing an artifact weapon). Also, a 2nd copy of an ally will allow some degree of healing.

I think it would be easier to make:
Smaug + all FP cards from main deck (except events)  -> R-list

Moreover, we haven't use the Esgaroth pack yet, but it will make Bard wery strong (with a lot of healing for him). And Elrond will have soon his pack.


Don't know if 2x or 1x would be better:
- 1x only one R-list no other number of copies restriction
- 2x many different FP strategies

The second option could make some FP part very strong:
- 2x Acorn + 2x Old Trush -> Moria swarm will easily lost all its conditions.
- 2x Beorn + 2x Egles Are Coming + 2x His Wrath Was Redoubled   + Gandalf The Grey + a lot of events....


Thanks a lot to all contributors.

[daisukeman]

Hi All,
I just thought I'd report the silly bugs as well since we seem to have moved past the really major ones.

1. This one needs confirmation, and for the moment is more like an anecdote.
I was browsing the cards and wondered about "Dwarven song". So began to look for possible followers' costs and noticed that Bofur seems to be listed as if it costs 1 twilight.
So this one is about a potential bug with this card when used by Dwarven song.



2. This one is probably not even worth fixing, but maybe just mentioning it.
The chat's log prompts about added burdens while this format uses "doubts". I sense the code reuses the burden stuff so I'd leave it as it is, unless you guys want this to match 100% with the text on cards..



---
At this point I am also wondering if someone has explicitly validated that dwarves (either followers or companions) are not actually spotted to reduced the cost of Smaug when stacked on "The Arkenstone" artifact.
About the current discussion, my two cents on An Acorn from Beorn's house is that the card by itself is highly powerful, so maybe it should be unique so that stacking 2 copies to wipe conditions in any given moment in a same turn isn't possible.


Best regards,

[Phallen Cassidy]

Thanks, daisukeman!

You were close - Bofur isn't listed as 1 twilight, Dori is listed as 2. Corrected the code for the next round of fixes!

I won't be changing the text from "burdens" to "doubts" anytime soon, though it might be a good addition later on. Right now, it'd be comparable to doing brain surgery to help with a nose job As with Lord of the Rings, no stacked cards can be spotted so there's no reason to believe that they could count for anything.

And for card quantities - has there been any testing on opening up the restrictions? It's a simple change for the most part, but I'd advise you to be weary of the length of time between changes. I agree that right now it's far too complicated for constructed, but I don't think anyone would approve of making The Hobbit draft-only on Gemp. Since Enola has a player base, I suggest some testing to be done in person before we put some of these theories up as solutions.

[-Enola-]

The player base is hard to activate quickly for constructed Hobbit. We'll have to make some theories and choose the best one.

[daisukeman]

Thanks, daisukeman!

You were close - Bofur isn't listed as 1 twilight, Dori is listed as 2. Corrected the code for the next round of fixes!

Cool! So there's your quick way to validate for minor bugs on twilight and the likes.
Looking at the full list, I can see that precisely, dwarven song is also bugged (apparently using 1 cost for twilight).

[Durin's Heir]

@Phallen: I cannot see your fixes as Pull Requests on Github. I use that to know which bugs' fixes are already coded, in order to list them in blue in the Bugs List.

Are you certain about Underground Lake?

Creator sent me the replay link, and there is no such bug. He just was confused: in discard pile there was a Great Goblin's Power, AND in draw deck there was only 1 condition he could play (due to remaining twilight): another Great Goblin's Power. So he thought he was replaying the discarded one. But the game log says it was played from deck, and the copy in discard didn't disappear (to return to support area).

http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=Creator$rb04ufgvdzgt1hqm

You were close - Bofur isn't listed as 1 twilight, Dori is listed as 2. Corrected the code for the next round of fixes!

I'm just realizing that using this method (Gemp's deckbuilder, all Hobbit: The Short Rest cards, sorted by twilight) we could have found each and every base twilight bug from the very start! So besides Dori, found only these 2: Dwarven Song (should be ), and Great Barricade (should be ).

Thanks daisukeman!

--------------

@Enola: I see an immediate fail in allowing only 1x of each each Sup pack card, versus 4x of all Shadow cards (except Smaug and the Sup packs). With so much Shadow power and multicultural combos, having 2x of those additional FP cards will be not an option, but a need!

So starting with 2x will be a much safer bet for the next server restart... here's the detailed explanation:

Moria swarm will easily lose all its conditions.

Yes, Moria Swarm depends on conditions and 2x Acorn + Ancestral Knowledge (+2x Thrush to repeat) will be very strong. But remember that there will be 4x Not At Home to recover them, and 2x Riddles in the Dark to punish Bilbo if exerts to use the Thrush/Dori. Also, 2x Riddles and 2x Caught in a Sack will create a greater need of discard than those conditions, and thus will take their bullets a la Kevin Costner!

Finally, Bert can be splashed.

Gandalf The Grey + a lot of events....

I don't see that being so perilous, Beorn and The Eagles Are Coming wear down Gandalf's vitality (and so does Dawn Take You All). Also, he will already have 4x He Gives Me Courage, 4x Dawn Take You All and 4x Take Up Arms, so 2 more events (4 instead of 2) won't add so much.

To rely on The Grey's skill, you need to assure you'll be having enough post-fellowship events in the critical moments when will be needed. And the only FP cycling cards to do so are Gandalf Friend of Thorin (negated by The Grey) and "Ori + Balin" (which needs you to pack a great % of cards, competing with the events). Now, compare that to 4x Spider Nest, or 4x of each of the Three Stooges + 4x Troll Knife... or even worse, 4x Gollum + 4x If He Loses! And don't forget about the 2 basic sites 5 discarding Gandalf (you cannot bid too high to go 2nd AND also use The Grey's artifact/companion fetching comfortably)...



About R-listing allies... extra copies of the same unique card have only 2 uses: discard-to-heal (if is a character) and play sooner. Elrond doesn't need more healing, and Bard will then have The Master and Bain. To play sooner, AWINL is much better. Also, there's no discard decks here to worry about (and anyway AWINL plays from discard too). So 1x Elrond and 1x Bard plus 3x or 4x AWINL will be much better even with the Esgaroth/Rivendell pack. There's no need to R-list them.


R-listing each Dwarf companion is a need. But perhaps the Dwarf followers may be left outside that, since each of those 6 plays an important role to both create your own strategy, and counter your opponent's Shadow one, so that creates a natural pressure to include everyone (except perhaps Ori) in the deck... which often means 1x only to not bloat the deck too much (at most 2x).

That'd leave the R-list with only
- 6 companions,
- Gandalf and Bilbo,
- The One Ring and the 3 artifact weapons.

That's much simpler to read and remember, and restrains players much less.

We might even remove from that list the 3 Gondolin weapons (leaving only The One Ring), since 1 is played by site 2 and Orcrist's extra copies will be better as copies of Dwarven Axe. That'll reduce The Grey's power over the other Gandalfs (and anyway that's not so bad with so many events...).

[-Enola-]

Ok for 2x each Sup card, it could also be 4x with some cards in the R-list.

If you have a follower multiple times in your deck, you don't need so much Bilbo's Kitchen and TMOMK to have the follower you want.

Don't know yet, what will be in the Elrond pack, but we can change later and put Elrond in the R-list.

Listen the players about Gandalf the Grey, he seems far more OP than I saw in draft games.

[Durin's Heir]

Don't know yet, what will be in the Elrond pack, but we can change later and put Elrond in the R-list.

Ok. Those are different formats, and each should have its own Restrictions list. Elrond and Bard won't need more healing in the current.

Listen the players about Gandalf the Grey, he seems far more OP than I saw in draft games.

You can change The Grey's text a bit, giving some cost. Something simple, as changing it to " spell", thus removing He Gives Me Courage from the bag of wounding tricks (but it'll still be key to sweep the doubts he'll be adding, and thus will compete with the spells). Or "each time you play a event, you may discard a card from hand to wound a minion", thus each event will need 2 cards from hand for 1 wound...

Sauron will change things a lot, he'll be assigning The Grey to strong perils over and over (and Gandalf will exert/add doubts by himself)... but that's too late for this format.

If you have a follower multiple times in your deck, you don't need so much Bilbo's Kitchen and TMOMK to have the follower you want.

- TMOMK: it won't be replaced, it's key to bring back the exact follower your opponent wants you to NOT have. For instance, you can pack 3x Bombur to counter Beatdown/Swarm soon, but opponent might play Grind and thus prefer to remove your sole copy of Óin... it is after the Shadow player counters your follower support, and thus reveals his/her strategy, it's then when your copies of TMOMK are most useful!

- Bilbo's Kitchen: When playing with Aragorn, people pack 2x or 3x copies regularly, but still they try to start him with The Prancing Pony / The Riddermark. Also, the need of packing 5 or 6 different followers is to have resources to counter any possible Shadow strategy your opponent throws at you... but Bilbo's Kitchen is at site 1, while opponent will reveal the Shadow strategy at site 2+!


If you still want to R-list followers, let the weakest ones be. Bombur is really strong, Dori is key for swarm protection, and Óin is a really powerful healing machine. Those 3 are much more worrisome than Bofur (doubts pile up), Bifur (often replaced by Acorn/Ancestral Knowledge) and Ori (somewhat weak). So if you still want, R-listing 3 or 4 of them should be enough.

In the next format, King Under the Mountain changes everything and thus there the R-list might need to contain every Main Deck follower.

Ok for 2x each Sup card, it could also be 4x with some cards in the R-list.

Hmmm, that requires a lot of thinking, but can be a good alternative.

[-Enola-]

Ok for the number of copies, but I let you be in charge of the balance of the game on gemp.

Gandalf The Grey is a very good in draft, but balanced (since you have to take a lot of events and not other cards during the draft). He will not change, players know him well now. You have to adapt him for the constructed game.

[Chrispy77]

I agree with Gandalf the Grey. Direct wounds seems to counter everything- kills gollum, smaug, big warg guys, even spiders. I haven't lost with the deck yet... and that's with the copies of cards we're allowed.

If he were to be errata'd for a constructed format, maybe he could work like Bilbo- "When you play a (gandalf) event, discard a card from hand to wound a minion".

It's not Gandalf destroying a shadow on a site that's so bad, it's how easy it is for him to double with Beorn feeding Gandalf more events every time he beats anything that looks at him funny.

[-Enola-]

In the next format "The Clouds Burst", only Nenya and Gathering of the Three Rings could be a good cards for Gandalf The Grey, but this time Shadow players have Narzug, Jail and The Great Enemy to counter it.

I think the problem is more Beorn than The Grey. We could put Beorn on the R-list and ban (or put on the R-list) Eagles Are Coming. Moreover, Beorn can be discarded by Yazneg when he is not attached to a companion.

[Chrispy77]

Actually Belen's text says he can't be discarded by shadow cards- did you mean you wanted to change this? I agree a Beorn fix could fix most of the issue- on a double move against things that are fierce Gandalf can grab 4 events with Beorn.

[Phallen Cassidy]

Actually Belen's text says he can't be discarded by shadow cards- did you mean you wanted to change this? I agree a Beorn fix could fix most of the issue- on a double move against things that are fierce Gandalf can grab 4 events with Beorn.

Followers' texts aren't supposed to be active when not attached to a companion. I didn't know this when coding the cards, and hadn't considered that Beorn could be discarded when his text isn't active. I'll work on fixing that when I can.

[Chrispy77]

Also Enola do you remember which company you used to promote for printing hobbit draft game cards? I think I'd like to print a set but not sure where to look.

[Chrispy77]

-Also I didn't know that either Phallen. Thanks!

[Phallen Cassidy]

The following should be good to go for the next reset:

Corrected "Great Barricade" twilight cost
Corrected "Dwarven Song" twilight cost
"Bilbo, Master in Riddles" should properly make Gollum strength -2 when he discards 2 cards from hand, with a limit of -4
"Ancestral Feuds" now has a limit of -3
"Thranduil, Elven King" should no longer take wounds from archery fire (but should be able to take direct wounds in the archery phase)
"Beorn" should properly prevent discarding, but only when borne

[-Enola-]

Also Enola do you remember which company you used to promote for printing hobbit draft game cards? I think I'd like to print a set but not sure where to look.

This one

http://www.printerstudio.com/

[Durin's Heir]

@Phallen: I must say, my hat (and scalp)'s off to you! Really clever fix for Thranduil! The same treatment can be done for Roäc.

Updated the 1st post, changing these to blue (fix already coded):
- Dori, Dwarven Song and Great Barricade (wrong cost),
- Tauriel (wrong player chooses),
- Thranduil,
- Nori (wrong phase),
- Battle Fury,
- Ancestral Knowledge (lack of limit),
- Bilbo, Master in Riddles.

Removed Underground Lake from the list.

--------

- Gandalf, The Grey: Yes, Beorn makes him too powerful. But there's another card that turns this version into a killing machine: Dawn Take You All. Each other event makes The Grey assign 1 direct wound, but that spell does it thrice. So besides R-listing both Beorn and The Eagles Are Coming, might be good to limit Dawn Take You All to 2x only.

I don't like the idea of X-listing The Eagles Are Coming, since it synergizes very well with Gwaihir to attach him again after using his skill. But either X-listing or R-listing The Eagles Are Coming, I'd compensate that strong reduction in Gwaihir's fetching by making his max copies be 4x (there's little risk of clogging, since he discards his own extra copies, even without Gandalf).

In the next format "The Clouds Burst", only Nenya and Gathering of the Three Rings could be a good cards for Gandalf The Grey.

There will be also Former Herald. But yes, the addition of Jail and The Great Enemy should provide a good counter (with Narzug wounding Galadriel and Elrond allies).

Besides restricting and/or X-listing things, I think we might even import 1 (pre-existent) card from another Hobbit format. The Great Enemy would punish The Grey more often than LotC or FoT (since the safest way to replay Gandalf at site 5+ is another Wise character: Radagast).

[daisukeman]

Hi,
Not sure how site 9 should work regarding the "remove your minion from the game" part, but it seems that it's off.
Also, I'm reporting that goblin song's ability to be played from discard has issues with the great goblin:
http://www.gempukku.com/gemp-lotr/game.html?replayId=daisukeman$1azskxeidi3lk7xy

Best regards,

[Durin's Heir]

I'm very sorry for this long delay. Yes, Goblin Song is a slightly bugged: you need to exert the Great Goblin twice to play it, and you exerted him along with another Orc to pay its regular cost first, so you were unable to also exert him twice (which would be possible only if unwounded and bearing Savage Warg, and wasn't the case)...

So the bug consist in the order of costs. Currently, happens to pay first the regular cost of Goblin Song ( + 2 Orcs exerting once), but should pay first the 2 exertions of the Great Goblin whenever it's played from discard. That creates confusion, but is still playable the right way if you order well the exertions. Added to the list.


About Ravenhill's skill to play a minion from discard (at twilight cost -2, by removing a minion in play from the game), it worked well the in the 1st playtest ever (Enola vs me, Nov 10). Remember that it works at Maneuver phase, perhaps you believed it was at Shadow.


Thanks for your much needed help! And excuse me again for this delay, these weeks have been really hard.

[Durin's Heir]

Updated the 1st post. MarcinS implemented Phallen's fixes and Restriction changes. Bravo!

[Phallen Cassidy]

The following will take effect after the next server reset:

• Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves now properly discards two Dwarf followers
• Gandalf, Leader of the Company and Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves are now properly Wise.
• He Gives Me Courage no longer allows the Free Peoples to exert Gandalf if he cannot exert a Wise ally (removing no burdens)
• Dawn Take You All now wounds an exhausted minion twice if no minion has more than 1 vitality and there are no Trolls
• Beorn, Skin-Changer now really cannot be discarded while borne
• The Eagles Are Coming now properly attaches a follower
• Goblin Song now properly exerts The Great Goblin twice before playing from discard, and can only be played from discard if the Shadow player can exert two Orcs afterwards
• Riddles in the Dark now properly prompts the Free Peoples player
• Trollshaw Forest now properly gives each player the opportunity to play a hand weapon

[-Enola-]

Thanks a lot Phallen.

I don't know if you see it, but I changed the images of Beorn, Old Trush (and Roac). Since their game texts can be use only if they are attached, I specify their texts. It's still the same way to play them, only an erratum making their texts simpler.

Are you ready to implement the next extension: The Clouds Burst?   (Swarm Pack 2 and Beatdown Pack 2 and 4 other supplementary Packs)

[Phallen Cassidy]

Another one found:
• Caught in a Sack will be properly unique

[Danny]

Can't wait for The Clouds Burst 

[Durin's Heir]

Updated the 1st post. Now all known bugs are blue (that is, the fix is only waiting for the next restart). Thanks Phallen, you're the man!

Can't wait for The Clouds Burst 

Sauron and the Nazgûl, the / Ring of Thrór, Smaug playing mind games, the White Council... it'll be really delightful!