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Author Topic: LotR Relaunch Discussion Thread #1.  (Read 3916 times)
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menace64
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« on: August 21, 2018, 04:59:31 PM »

This poll will run for one month, and the results will only be visible after its conclusion.

You can change your vote at any time.

This isn't a binding vote by any means, but it is important, and the more unique votes we receive the better we'll be able to serve the community's interests. Also, keep in mind that none of these Options need exist in a vacuum: it would be feasible to implement many Options at once, given that we end up with enough volunteers to make such things become a reality!

I've tried to offer a spectrum of potentialities, but if I've missed something crucial please make it known.

ONE VOTE PER HUMAN MIND. (Orcs may not vote. Suspect)

---------

Here's a breakdown of what each option "means", insofar as I've been able to define them:

No Relaunch - Nothing New
We do nothing to the game and allow it to persist as it has these last ten years.

No Relaunch - Updated R/X Lists
We get together and discuss each format, and how to best adjust them based on observed shifts in the meta.

No Relaunch - Updated R/X Lists + Erratas
We get together and discuss each format, and how to best adjust them based on observed shifts in the meta, and also alter troublesome cards to protect the game's health.

Yes Relaunch - No 'Second Edition'
We pick up where Decipher left off. Set 20 would be fan-made, beholden to all 19 sets before it.

Yes Relaunch - Limited Innovation
We relaunch the game, sticking as close as possible to the design and scope of what came before, likely focusing on backwards-compatibility over other considerations.

Yes Relaunch - Extreme Makeover
We relaunch the game, injecting innovation and change to such a degree that backwards-compatibility cannot be guaranteed for all new cards or releases.

If you vote, by order of the King you MUST elaborate on your choice in the form of a reply. Anonymous votes will be scrutinized.

---------

I'd like to end this on a personal note, and then an invitation to the rest of you to use this thread to discuss anything on your minds concerning a prospective relaunch of LotR, including how you might see yourself contributing in the future.

I am not in charge. If anything, I wish to be seen as an Imrahil-like figure in the wake of the Battle of the Pelennor: I may be posting and leading conversations right now, but whatever power that lends me is not mine to keep; nor would I necessarily want it, were it offered. All I want to do is stir us into action, in whichever direction the group determines best.

Discuss! And if this thread brings you out of the woodwork, please say hi to the rest of us!
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Fingolfinfinwe
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« Reply #1 on: August 21, 2018, 07:14:44 PM »

I honestly love the game the way it is.  The only things I'd like changed are some additional erratas out of the later sets (normalize HKotN, make Frenzy of Arrows usable but not OP, etc).

With that said, I'm not opposed to a relaunch, since it doesn't really change what we have already.  Case in point I love the Hobbit draft cards that were posted a while back.
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« Reply #2 on: August 21, 2018, 09:22:26 PM »

I'm think I'm quite ready for a new adventure.

I dislike the new cultures enough that I think it's worth starting from scratch. Plus that leaves the existing experience alone. Feels like the best of both worlds.
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« Reply #3 on: August 21, 2018, 09:30:26 PM »

I've had simple errata ready for about 6 years now that removes the need for any X-list/R-list for any of the pre-Shadows formats.  I'd also be happy dropping everything after Mount Doom, as I really disliked the new shadow cultures, etc. Then creating new things to make each of the pre-Shadows formats even better would be awesome!
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« Reply #4 on: August 21, 2018, 10:25:12 PM »

A complete startover is the way to go in my opinion. It worked well for The Hobbit; it can be treated as a different game but with similar rules. It's distinct and lets us enjoy the original Decipher game for what it is.
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Wyrden333
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« Reply #5 on: August 22, 2018, 06:29:56 AM »

I personally think that with making new stuff (what includes X/R-Lists, Erratas, new sets, mechanics...) we're bringing new life into the game, what is necessary for having a growing community. That is what I  miss, having movement in the game.

But I could also imagine making a complete Make-Over. That depends on what the other players are thinking.
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Phallen Cassidy
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« Reply #6 on: August 22, 2018, 12:30:17 PM »

My thought remains that strengthening the unaltered 1E community will be necessary to any future incarnations, and should be the focus of everyone regardless of how they want the game to live on in the future.
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ket_the_jet
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« Reply #7 on: August 27, 2018, 09:03:16 PM »

My thought remains that strengthening the unaltered 1E community will be necessary to any future incarnations, and should be the focus of everyone regardless of how they want the game to live on in the future.
I agree with this. I am happy with the game we have now, and if I want a new game, I'll probably just go find a new game.

I am nostalgic for the thriving community. Owning the physical cards was great, the anticipation that came with sending some away in the mail to another player/collector, the thrill of receiving your return package. The friends we have made online, centered upon this community (and the earliest GCCG days). These are the things that I miss and I don't anticipate that trying to whisper life into the game with a new set or sets will bring Gil-Estel or Kralik or OneFathom or rubbercarp or Thranduil or MuadDib85 or DainIronfoot or the many others I am forgetting back.






[For what it is worth, when I have a new game, I can finally look beyond set 13 and see what is out there for me, but I don't anticipate that happening].
« Last Edit: August 27, 2018, 09:09:16 PM by ket_the_jet » Logged
DarthMaeglin
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« Reply #8 on: August 29, 2018, 11:26:04 AM »

My initial inclination is "No Relaunch" for now.
I doubt we could adjust the r/x lists without also adjusting erratas to maintain balance.
If we start adjusting erratas without adding new sets we'll eventually end up with the same cards but a totally different game because all the cards read slightly differently. I like the game as it is, and maybe the last couple of sets could use tweaking but I don't want to see the whole thing change.
If we want to pursue new sets (something I am not totally opposed to) I think we should consider ways to bring in fresh meat. The player base is not exactly large now, and with enough new content (especially content like the Hobbit set that doesn't mix with the original game) there will be too many formats compared to the number of players. I completely agree with both of the above posts, players are the life of the game far more than rules or cards are. Changing rules or cards might bring some players back, but I don't think such changes will bring in anyone new. If anything the fear that everything will be changing as soon as they learn the game might push away the few that stumble upon it.

On a brighter note, I would like to see additional sets someday. I love the original game and would rather see additions to it than complete reboots like the Hobbit set, and I do think that with enough players adding to the game would be very enriching.
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5tein
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« Reply #9 on: September 02, 2018, 05:41:16 AM »

I haven't played for years but stumbled on this post when introducing the game to my kids (I still have loads of singles and sealed).

Is there a page that describes the current state of the game and community?
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Wyrden333
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« Reply #10 on: September 02, 2018, 06:58:47 PM »

If we want to pursue new sets (something I am not totally opposed to) I think we should consider ways to bring in fresh meat. The player base is not exactly large now, and with enough new content (especially content like the Hobbit set that doesn't mix with the original game) there will be too many formats compared to the number of players.

That is exactly the reason why I think 'fresh meat', how you call it, is needed more than anything. Not only in form of sets and cards, but also new errata and so on. I think its necessary to have that, for getting new players in the game.
 If I was a new player joining the game (and there are already quite a few if you spent some time reading the Gemp-Chat) I would a lot more likely stay and enjoy the game if there was some change in the game, because playing exactly the same Formats, Metas and so on over and over again, might become boring and its just not healthy for the game.

And doing it just like the Hobbit and make it to something else than Decipher made does help to lessen the fear one have, of 'making something new and destroying everything that was before'.

And something completely opposite to the above: What'd be if we wouldn't create new sets and add them as set 20, 21 ... , but add new sets to the single Block formats?
I mean, yes it'd be a complete mess and it would totally 'destroy everything decipher made' and it would double(!!!) the amount of Formats. But it'd be quite funny to see these Formats developing and being 'fixed'.

But that's only a thought, I still remain on my point of view, starting at the beginning, but be as close to the old rules as possible.
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menace64
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« Reply #11 on: September 03, 2018, 06:41:12 AM »

I haven't played for years but stumbled on this post when introducing the game to my kids (I still have loads of singles and sealed).

Is there a page that describes the current state of the game and community?

Welcome back to LotR TCG!

As far as I'm aware, this forum is "it" in terms of a community HQ. GEMP is where you'll find the chatroom, connected to the free online TCG client. There's also a mostly defunct subreddit that I'd like to see gain more activity in the months to come.

I'm incredibly interested in your perspective regarding what you'd like to see from this game - and your kids, too! What do they think? What do you think would make it easier for them to fully-enjoy the game?

Again, welcome back! If there's anything we can do to help you and yours adjust to playing again, please don't hesitate to ask!
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ArtificerAlf
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« Reply #12 on: September 04, 2018, 08:42:17 PM »

I'm very much a returning player to all of this, but something I would like to see that could keep the integrity of the current game while injecting some freshness into all of the formats would be to take the Reflections cards (set 9), and allow them to be legal in Fellowship, Towers, Tower Standard, or King block games. While this might be seen as a crazy idea, here's my thought process behind it:

Many of the cards from Reflections were scenes taken from previous films. Book fans also know that some of the lore that the Reflections cards were based upon were from earlier books as well. Here are some cards I would love to see be legal in earlier blocks, if only because of my love of Tolkien's lore and the stories in general.

Elven Rope - This was given to Sam in Lothlorien, yet he can't utilize the card until Movie block. There's definitely some other cards that lower strength of minions, so in earlier blocks, maybe this could see some play.

Merry's Dagger & Pippin's Dagger - While the movies had those come as gifts from Galadriel, in the books, they were discovered in the Barrow Downs and wielded by the hobbits on Weathertop. Pippin's isn't as thematic as Merry's, but I'm willing for forgive that if it creates some cool builds, especially in something like Fellowship block, where people have given me the advice that Pippin is a speed bump and meant to be sacrificed.

Ent Draught - Merry and Pippin drinks these in The Two Towers, Book 3 when they are with Treebeard. Just another card I want to see get its proper place in the Towers block.

Host of Moria, Legion of the Underdeeps - Another 3 vitality Moria minion might give some "bulk" builds, utilizing things like Threat of the Unknown, Moria Axe, and the like, or at least give it a strength boost.

Freca, Hungry Savage - Another boost for Dunland in Towers.

Sack of the Shire - Since Towers introduced site control, I would be fine bringing this as legal into that block.

Huorn - The huorns showed up at the Battle of the Hornburg and were also present in Isengard. I would like to see these legal for Towers as well.

I think the community could debate with where the rings and Last Alliance artifacts could be placed. I think alternate Ring-bearers still take their current legality state, as I wouldn't start including those in Fellowship or Towers (as I came back into the game, I wasn't really a huge fan of that rules update anyway).

It may be possible to include some of the Ages End cards in these lists, as some original cultures were supported (Isengard and Moria springing to mind).

I realize I'm not as meta knowledgeable as so many other people on the forums, but for a way to bring some freshness to the game, and respecting the created works of Tolkien, this might be a fun way to start shaking things up without any huge overhauls.

I'm also only interested in sets 1-10 (and even then, I don't chase after the alternate Ring-bearers), as I don't like the culture overhaul change, as part of what brought me into the game was how each culture had its own symbol and uniqueness that gave the game a great feel for the works of Tolkien.

Thanks for reading! I haven't posted a ton, but I love this game and being able to dive into the other posts and pick up on all the knowledge everybody has.
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5tein
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« Reply #13 on: September 05, 2018, 02:59:49 AM »


I'm incredibly interested in your perspective regarding what you'd like to see from this game - and your kids, too! What do they think? What do you think would make it easier for them to fully-enjoy the game?

Thanks! Time will tell if my kids (16 and 8) stay interested in the game. I've tried to ease them in with modified starters. As I look at some of the later decks that I played toward the end, I'm a bit surprised at how complicated the game got!

At any rate, I'll probably give GEMP a shot.

...something I would like to see that could keep the integrity of the current game while injecting some freshness into all of the formats would be to take the Reflections cards (set 9), and allow them to be legal in Fellowship, Towers, Tower Standard, or King block games.

It's natural that as I began sorting through my collection, starting with Age's End, I wondered something similar. I imagine people have played with Ages End added in to Movie Block -- I never did.

But what other cards could be introduced to previous blocks to re-invigorate deck types that were never quite competitive? I'm thinking of the disappointment of Southrons and Sauron Wraiths, the near-misses of Isengard Orcs, Warg Riders, and Gondor Wraiths?
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ArtificerAlf
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« Reply #14 on: September 05, 2018, 11:07:47 AM »


It's natural that as I began sorting through my collection, starting with Age's End, I wondered something similar. I imagine people have played with Ages End added in to Movie Block -- I never did.

But what other cards could be introduced to previous blocks to re-invigorate deck types that were never quite competitive? I'm thinking of the disappointment of Southrons and Sauron Wraiths, the near-misses of Isengard Orcs, Warg Riders, and Gondor Wraiths?

I don't think Aves End has as many cards that could be brought back to older sets, but I know some others that could even get swapped around to create a more thematic book rendition. Adding Shelob to Towers springs to mind. The format could even be called Fellowship - Book or something like that. Similar, but have the book to differentiate it.
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