High Vantage vs Line of Defense

[Wyrden333]

Hey,
just saw this coming up on Gemp after my last Movie Block game:

High Vantage

or:

Line of Defense

Just wanted to know what your opinion on this is.
I'll list the Pros and Cons of each one.

High Vantage

PROS:
-Not really any counters to this; when it resolves it stays until assignment
-Can be recovered with Ships of Great Draught
-I've a foil version lol 

CONS:
-Doesn't prevent wounds after Assignment
-Only effective for one turn
-You have to run some copies of an (depending on your deck and if you already use it in other ways) additional card to make sure you have enough for the whole game
-Works only for Southrons, not for Corsairs and Easterlings (personally I don't care)

Line of Defense

PROS:
-Stays forever if not removed by FP Player
-Does last the entire turn and not only until skirmish phase (but excludes Skirmish wounds)
-Can (if needed) be recycled with Seasoned Leader

CONS:
-Only works if you have a Mûmak on hand to protect you
-High cost of three
-Can be removed with Condition Hate

What are your thoughts?

[ket_the_jet]

What does more for your deck? Three copies of High Vantage and one Ships of Great Draught? Or three copies of Mumak and a copy of Line of Defense?

I think the answer is obvious, personally. Especially since Line of Defense can be recycled with Seasoned Leader and Ships of Great Draught. Mumak can be replayed with Mumak Chieftain and Army of Haradrim as well as recurred with Ships of Great Draught.

Line of Defense also protects against regroup wounding, which you did not note. Helpful if you are trying to stall a double-move.
-wtk

[Wyrden333]

The thing is, due to high archery, if I had no LoD we didn't even come to Skirmish Phase and being able to use Seasoned Leader.
Also: sure that 1 LoD is enough? Do you still get to it fast enough?

[Not a Zombie]

It depends on the deck for me. I have a killer Southron Archer deck that uses just one HV to great effect. LoD is to vulnerable to the copious condition hate in movie block.

[Dictionary]

I prefer High Vantage. It guarantees protection, whereas Line of Defense is more fickle. It has to last more than a turn to be better, which isn't hugely probable. But the fact that it may do nothing at all is what puts me off. Holding HV can be a pain, but you'll be holding LoD anyway if you fear discard (from GLR etc.). Dauntless Hunter + Elrond/Vilya will annihilate LoD, but High Vantage will be merely weakened.

Since you mention that LoD shields other Men, I feel I should add that High Vantage blocks all undirected wounds as you'll always assign them to your Southron. So it provides some protection even to minions of other cultures.

A small deck with 4x High Vantage probably doesn't need Ships of Great Draught at all; you're protected at 4 sites and in Movie Block there's a decent chance the Ships will disappear.

[RJH777]

I personally run 2 of each, High Vantage helps when against DH or LR, against decks where I'm getting my Mumak out each turn I'll rely on LoD and dump the HV to Ships.

[Wyrden333]

I prefer High Vantage. It guarantees protection, whereas Line of Defense is more fickle. It has to last more than a turn to be better, which isn't hugely probable. But the fact that it may do nothing at all is what puts me off. Holding HV can be a pain, but you'll be holding LoD anyway if you fear discard (from GLR etc.). Dauntless Hunter + Elrond/Vilya will annihilate LoD, but High Vantage will be merely weakened.

Since you mention that LoD shields other Men, I feel I should add that High Vantage blocks all undirected wounds as you'll always assign them to your Southron. So it provides some protection even to minions of other cultur.

That second one is an interesting, just realised that HV doesn't 'prevent from taking wounds', but from 'if minion would take a wound, prevented'. And also; what's about a format with GLR banned and without the fear of facing Elves every single game... But since Archery... caused by Elves is the main reason for needing protection, nah I don't know.

I personally run 2 of each, High Vantage helps when against DH or LR, against decks where I'm getting my Mumak out each turn I'll rely on LoD and dump the HV to Ships.

Seems interesting, but... space

Ah, and at ket I did kind of metion it:

-Does last the entire turn and not only until skirmish phase (but excludes skirmish wounds)

At least that's what I meant, maybe I wasn't clear enough.

[Dictionary]

That second one is an interesting, just realised that HV doesn't 'prevent from taking wounds', but from 'if minion would take a wound, prevented'. And also; what's about a format with GLR banned and without the fear of facing Elves every single game...

In Expanded LoD is even worse, because both it and Seasoned Leader will be removed by Namarie, which wounding Elves will probably be fielding. Ships of Great Draught is safer though and can't be discarded by Elves without GLR, so High Vantage has all the advantages here.

I would speculate that LoD is probably a lot better than HV in WOTR Standard. Pallando is maybe the most notable remover, but it isn't normally used with archery. There's Seclusion, but it's pretty mild. I haven't played WOTR Standard though, because it's very difficult to get games for.

But since Archery... caused by Elves is the main reason for needing protection, nah I don't know.

This is one of the biggest issues with LoD in my opinion. The decks that can't discard it don't need to anyway.