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Author Topic: TheHumanHydra's Dream Cards  (Read 2599 times)
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TheHumanHydra
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« on: October 30, 2018, 07:59:22 PM »

Hey,

I made some dream cards the other day. Disclaimer - I'm not a very experienced player of this game, so these cards may be wildly unbalanced or miscosted (either way). Also, I haven't read very many dream cards on these forums, so if I unintentionally overlapped anyone's ideas, I apologize.

The theme of these cards is 'cards to have a high impact on Fellowship Block format.'

The first is a new Watcher in the Water, inspired by discussions in ket_the_jet's thread and with my brother.

5 •Watcher in the Water      (Moria)
Seething Thing
Minion • Creature
11 / 4 / 4   Damage +1.
Shadow:
Exert Watcher in the Water twice to play a tentacle from your discard pile.
Each tentacle is Strength +2 and damage +1. This minion may not bear possessions and is discarded if not at a marsh or river.

Dropping 'discard all other minions' was ket_the_jet's idea and adding 'or river' was my brother's. As this Watcher is playable at substantially more sites (all but site 5), I increased its cost to bring it in line with other minions, like Orthanc Berserker. The activated ability reduces the burden running tentacles places on your deck by allowing you to replay them and the card retains the original Watcher buff. Unfortunately, extending the river text to your other tentacles would require deleting one of the other abilities to remain within the text box.

{4} •Westgate            (3)
Marsh. Shadow: Play Watcher in the Water from your draw deck or discard pile.

An alternate (or additional) fix for the Watcher. I don't need the tentacle swarm to feel like I'm adequately representing the Watcher; I just want to enjoy playing this iconic and efficient minion on its own.

4 •Saruman            (Isengard)
Many Coloured
Minion • Wizard
8 / 4 / 4
Saruman may not take wounds during the archery phase and may not be assigned to a skirmish.
Maneuver: Exert Saruman twice to make the Free Peoples player exert a companion for each culture among minions you spot.

The subtitle 'Of Many Colors' is already taken. Multicolour is my favourite 'mechanic' in card games. This Saruman is intended to give some help to multicultural minion strategies. Is he too strong (or too weak)? I really have no idea. If so, what could I do to improve the design?

{5} •Pass of Rohan         (6)
Plains. When the fellowship moves to Pass of Rohan, the Free Peoples player must exert a Dwarf, an Elf, a Man, and a Wizard.

Oh, spicy, an alternate site 5. I know many won't appreciate such an idea as breaking one of the keystones of the Fellowship format (and its flavour), but hey, it's a dream card. I knew the effect would have to be strong to compete with downloading the Balrog. Hopefully this represents the peril the Fellowship knew it would face if it ventured near Saruman's fences and also would add an interesting consideration in deckbuilding for those typically multicultured Fellowships. (As far as I can estimate, any less-clunky way of phrasing that, like 'a companion of each culture he or she can spot,' wouldn't fit in the frame.)

{2} •Barrow-downs         (3)
Regroup: Discard your minion to add a burden.

I haven't found corruption strategies to be particularly strong in Fellowship (maybe I just haven't faced them enough). This is intended to assist while representing a famous location and hopefully providing an interesting choice - do you discard your minion(s) to further your strategy or keep them in place to discourage a move to the sanctuary?

Thanks for reading and for any comments you provide.
« Last Edit: October 30, 2018, 08:02:52 PM by TheHumanHydra » Logged


Dictionary
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« Reply #1 on: October 31, 2018, 06:44:34 AM »

4 •Saruman            (Isengard)
Many Coloured
Minion • Wizard
8 / 4 / 4
Saruman may not take wounds during the archery phase and may not be assigned to a skirmish.
Maneuver: Exert Saruman twice to make the Free Peoples player exert a companion for each culture among minions you spot.

The subtitle 'Of Many Colors' is already taken. Multicolour is my favourite 'mechanic' in card games. This Saruman is intended to give some help to multicultural minion strategies. Is he too strong (or too weak)? I really have no idea. If so, what could I do to improve the design?

Did you know there's also a Saruman, Many-Coloured Wizard (D)? Wink
He may be a bit too splashable, although that is kind've the goal here I guess. With dual Sauron Moria archery you get 3 wounds for 4 twilight though, which is even better than Morgul Leader.

5 •Watcher in the Water      (Moria)
Seething Thing
Minion • Creature
11 / 4 / 4   Damage +1.
Shadow:
Exert Watcher in the Water twice to play a tentacle from your discard pile.
Each tentacle is Strength +2 and damage +1. This minion may not bear possessions and is discarded if not at a marsh or river.

Dropping 'discard all other minions' was ket_the_jet's idea and adding 'or river' was my brother's. As this Watcher is playable at substantially more sites (all but site 5), I increased its cost to bring it in line with other minions, like Orthanc Berserker. The activated ability reduces the burden running tentacles places on your deck by allowing you to replay them and the card retains the original Watcher buff. Unfortunately, extending the river text to your other tentacles would require deleting one of the other abilities to remain within the text box.
You could change "is discarded if not at a marsh or river." to "each river is a marsh". Or add that line to Westgate. Or even remove the line about possessions; I don't think the Watcher bearing a spear is much worse than the Balrog with one.
« Last Edit: October 31, 2018, 06:46:34 AM by Dictionary » Logged

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Wyrden333
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« Reply #2 on: October 31, 2018, 07:03:41 AM »

Hey,

I made some dream cards the other day. Disclaimer - I'm not a very experienced player of this game, so these cards may be wildly unbalanced or miscosted (either way). Also, I haven't read very many dream cards on these forums, so if I unintentionally overlapped anyone's ideas, I apologize.

The theme of these cards is 'cards to have a high impact on Fellowship Block format.'

The first is a new Watcher in the Water, inspired by discussions in ket_the_jet's thread and with my brother.

5 •Watcher in the Water      (Moria)
Seething Thing
Minion • Creature
11 / 4 / 4   Damage +1.
Shadow:
Exert Watcher in the Water twice to play a tentacle from your discard pile.
Each tentacle is Strength +2 and damage +1. This minion may not bear possessions and is discarded if not at a marsh or river.

Dropping 'discard all other minions' was ket_the_jet's idea and adding 'or river' was my brother's. As this Watcher is playable at substantially more sites (all but site 5), I increased its cost to bring it in line with other minions, like Orthanc Berserker. The activated ability reduces the burden running tentacles places on your deck by allowing you to replay them and the card retains the original Watcher buff. Unfortunately, extending the river text to your other tentacles would require deleting one of the other abilities to remain within the text box.

I think he'll be fine. I haven't faced any watcher decks yet, so i don't know and he's (along with your other support) definitly strong.

{4} •Westgate            (3)
Marsh. Shadow: Play Watcher in the Water from your draw deck or discard pile.

An alternate (or additional) fix for the Watcher. I don't need the tentacle swarm to feel like I'm adequately representing the Watcher; I just want to enjoy playing this iconic and efficient minion on its own.

Tough I've not made/seen many site DCs I think you can't do much wrong with this one.

4 •Saruman            (Isengard)
Many Coloured
Minion • Wizard
8 / 4 / 4
Saruman may not take wounds during the archery phase and may not be assigned to a skirmish.
Maneuver: Exert Saruman twice to make the Free Peoples player exert a companion for each culture among minions you spot.

The subtitle 'Of Many Colors' is already taken. Multicolour is my favourite 'mechanic' in card games. This Saruman is intended to give some help to multicultural minion strategies. Is he too strong (or too weak)? I really have no idea. If so, what could I do to improve the design?

{5} •Pass of Rohan         (6)
Plains. When the fellowship moves to Pass of Rohan, the Free Peoples player must exert a Dwarf, an Elf, a Man, and a Wizard.

Oh, spicy, an alternate site 5. I know many won't appreciate such an idea as breaking one of the keystones of the Fellowship format (and its flavour), but hey, it's a dream card. I knew the effect would have to be strong to compete with downloading the Balrog. Hopefully this represents the peril the Fellowship knew it would face if it ventured near Saruman's fences and also would add an interesting consideration in deckbuilding for those typically multicultured Fellowships. (As far as I can estimate, any less-clunky way of phrasing that, like 'a companion of each culture he or she can spot,' wouldn't fit in the frame.)

For Saruman, I think he's a good one, because I note here that you smartly decided to say "culture among minions" instead of "every shadow culture". Otherwise it'd have been extremly powerful with Isengard and non-spotting required conditions among different cultures. Good job.
For the site I agree that making an alternative site 5 takes a lot of strategy and flavor from FotR block but I think it's completly realistically when thinking about the decision the Fellowship made and it's cool flavorwise. But I also think its strangly worded and maybe it's to stong and should be "If the fellowship moves from this site...". I guess it's okay either way.

{2} •Barrow-downs         (3)
Regroup: Discard your minion to add a burden.

I haven't found corruption strategies to be particularly strong in Fellowship (maybe I just haven't faced them enough). This is intended to assist while representing a famous location and hopefully providing an interesting choice - do you discard your minion(s) to further your strategy or keep them in place to discourage a move to the sanctuary?

Thanks for reading and for any comments you provide.

Looks good, even though I personally see no reason to keep the minions in play if it's not necessary.
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ket_the_jet
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« Reply #3 on: October 31, 2018, 08:38:16 AM »

If you add brackets to your numbers, you will get the twilight symbols. The same goes with cultures. So, without spaces, [ 3 ] is 3 and [ Wraith ] is Wraith.

I like the balance of your Watcher in the Water. I don't know what the set 19 tentacles really do, but with Foul Tentacle and Huge Tentacle, there seems to be a nice balance. Exerting twice puts you in direct wounding territory. He's certainly better than the set 2 Watcher.

I like the sites, though Pass of Rohan seems dangerous in concert with King's Room. It is the obvious site 5 for direct wounding shadows while also becoming borderline too strong with the major Uruks of Towers block since your Elf or Dwarf will already have a wound before facing damage bonuses.

I agree with Dictionary that your Saruman is too strong. I would play him in any grind deck and splash Hides and Men of Harad and other cheap cultural support area conditions and possessions to really maximize the exertions.
-wtk

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Wyrden333
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« Reply #4 on: October 31, 2018, 09:02:00 AM »

Er, ket if you had read my post you'll see what his Saruman actually does.
It says "for each culture among minions"

 

4 •Saruman            (Isengard)
Many Coloured
Minion • Wizard
8 / 4 / 4
Saruman may not take wounds during the archery phase and may not be assigned to a skirmish.
Maneuver: Exert Saruman twice to make the Free Peoples player exert a companion for each culture among minions you spot.

The subtitle 'Of Many Colors' is already taken. Multicolour is my favourite 'mechanic' in card games. This Saruman is intended to give some help to multicultural minion strategies. Is he too strong (or too weak)? I really have no idea. If so, what could I do to improve the design.

He only exerts for cultures within mnions LOL!
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« Reply #5 on: October 31, 2018, 09:06:14 AM »

He only exerts for cultures within mnions LOL!
Fair point. To Dictionary's point though, he still is a stronger piece than Gothmog, Morgul Leader for less twilight.
-wtk
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« Reply #6 on: October 31, 2018, 09:14:43 AM »

What? I mean Gothmog works completly differently!
 First of Gothmog is a strong minion where as Saruman is not, in fact he cannot even fight. His only reason his this effect.

Gothmog shoots 3 archery wounds to the Fps as well as to the Shadow but Saruman exerts (what means if they're all exhausted...) and depends on your other minions.

And last but not least Gothmog has another good effect.

Yes, Saruman is a powerful card o'course but I think he's reasonable.
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ket_the_jet
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« Reply #7 on: October 31, 2018, 09:34:33 AM »

Saruman may not take wounds during the archery phase and may not be assigned to a skirmish.
Maneuver: Exert Saruman twice to make the Free Peoples player exert a companion for each culture among minions you spot.
Goblin Bowmen, Orc Ambusher (with an Orc Bowmen in play). Saruman. That is a total of 7 or 10 twilight, depending on if Orc Bowmen is in play. A copy of One of You Must Do This all but guarantees a 3-vitality companion is exhausted, and a copy of Hate finishes him off. Then you have two archery.

That doesn't even account for Under the Watching Eye and/or your pet card, Rout.

You only have to do that two or three times, especially in later formats where Gollum and They Stole It, Desert Stalker, Desert Lord and Whirling Strike come along. Saruman's Staff gives Saruman the ability to fight if you so choose, and as a fierce, strength 10, damage+1 minion, you could potentially knock out multiple three-vitality companions in a single turn.
-wtk
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« Reply #8 on: October 31, 2018, 09:48:27 AM »

Why does that guarantees you that a Vit 3 is exhausted? For Saruman the Fp player choses who exerts so... he could just exert Frodo three times and would be good to go.

And btw you named the best example for that being not broken by mentioning One of You Must Do This. It's potentially a cost 3ish exert up to three companions.

And keep in mind these are composed mainly for FotR block.

And as I said I do not say he's not good, I just think he is "fair" in a way that he could be implemented and wouldn't create a tier 0ish deck.
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« Reply #9 on: October 31, 2018, 10:50:25 AM »

Gothmog is 3-4 wounds for 6 twilight all in one card, which is great for wounding decks.

Saruman is 2-3 wounds for 4 twilight. He always counts himself, and even if he only does 2 wounds it's still good value. But wounding minions aren't expensive, so playing them all together isn't a big challenge.

Saruman exerting companions is actually stronger than Gothmog's archery. As Ket mentioned, it's softening up characters for hate and isn't affected by archery reduction. If everyone's exhausted, the fellowship is pretty much toast anyway.

Exerting Frodo 3 times is not something you can do often, and only soaks up a single Saruman.

I wouldn't say he's broken, just too strong. He doesn't replace other Saruman versions because he's suited to a different deck-type. Maybe he should say "Each culture among other minions" to lower the number by one.
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« Reply #10 on: October 31, 2018, 10:58:19 AM »

I wouldn't say he's broken, just too strong. He doesn't replace other Saruman versions because he's suited to a different deck-type. Maybe he should say "Each culture among other minions" to lower the number by one.
Which again raises the classic note in game creation...the more words you have to put into something, the more convoluted (and thus, worse) it will be.
-wtk
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« Reply #11 on: October 31, 2018, 11:03:01 AM »

Well, I guess I can't change your opinion and maybe you're right. Only testing would reveal its impact.
The last word has Hydra anyway.
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TheHumanHydra
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« Reply #12 on: October 31, 2018, 09:29:23 PM »

Thanks for all of your comments and suggestions, everyone; I appreciate each of them. Just a brief note - ket_the_jet, the site 5 is for Fellowship Block (of course, there is Silverlode Banks).

I certainly wasn't expecting to stir up controversy with the Saruman. I think that if this were an actual design project, I'd leave him in the file temporarily and ask the playtesters specifically to try and break him. One thing to bear in mind is that multicultural Shadow sides aren't really (to my knowledge) a thing in Fellowship Block; a card to enable them will have to be strong - but I also don't want to create something too strong. Dictionary, I like your proposed change of adding 'other' - I don't think one more word is too much ('each culture among other minions you spot').
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« Reply #13 on: December 26, 2018, 10:11:43 PM »

Came up with this the other day:

3 •Faramir, Númenorean Gondor
7 / 3 / Frodo   Ring-bound. Ranger.
While you can spot a roaming minion, Faramir is an archer.
While you can spot two roaming minions, Faramir is damage +1.
While you can spot three roaming minions, Faramir is defender +1.
"'I do not love the bright sword for its sharpness, nor the arrow for its swiftness, nor the warrior for his glory. I love only that which they defend.'"

Or, if we don't like the re-used lore (not that I know whether this one has been):

"'"Maybe you discern from afar the air of Númenor.'"
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Wyrden333
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« Reply #14 on: December 27, 2018, 03:16:47 AM »

I like him. For what format is he intended?
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