Minions played during skirmish phase

[Mythdracon]

Now, what about, say....Alatar Deceived? Let's say I have Pallando Deceived, Radagast Deceived and Saruman out. Saruman wins, does Alatar instantly get assigned then? Or wait til Fierce? And what if Pallando wins after that? Does Alatar get another assignment + Skirmish phase, or just wait til Fierce? I'm confused about this since it says 'Every time a wizard wins a skirmish'....which would mean more than one fight with Alatar, no?

[Thranduil]

Alatar does not get assigned because there is no assignment phase once he becomes a minion. He is fierce so that he can fight once in the turn that he appears (in the fierce fight because after the skirmish phase when he becomes a minion there is a fierce assignment phase when he must then be assigned).

For clarification, the turn order happens like this:

• Assignment phase - when minions are assigned
• Skirmish phases - when Alatar Deceived becomes a minion (he was not a minion during the assignment phase and therefore was not assigned)
• Fierce Assignment phase - when fierce minions are assigned, including Alatar
• Fierce skirmish phases - when Alatar and other fierce minions fight

Thranduil

[TheJord]

The wording "Each time" is explained in the rule book as having a definitive beginning and end ie Wizard wins, Alatar becomes a minion. That is all. Its like the Dunlends that play from your hand during skirmishes, you will notice they are all fierce.

[Elessar's Socks]

I'm confused about this since it says 'Every time a wizard wins a skirmish'....which would mean more than one fight with Alatar, no?

"Each time" is just a convenient, well-defined phrase to use. Technically Alatar's text will be activated twice if for example both Gandalf and Saruman win their skirmishes, although he'll probably be sitting there peeved by all the pokeage. But for the reasons Thranduil gave he doesn't actually get to skirmish until the fierce.

Alternatively I suppose it could've been "Response: If a Wizard wins a skirmish..." except in this case the action would've been optional. "Each time" (without throwing in "may" somewhere in the text) forces Alatar to become a minion no matter what, even though it can end up hurting the Shadow player. So yeah... maybe that was part of the reason too.

[TheJord]

I felt this topic deserved its own thread

[Celebrimbor]

I once played in an independant tourney with some guys I knew.  One of them used the Two Towers Dunlendings, which could play minions from hand during the skirmish like crazy.

After dying at site 3, and facing like 5 minions with damage +2...Yeah eventually found out the real rulings for that.

[Mythdracon]

I see...so Alatar cannot fight more than once. That's kinda sad. Deceived Wizards deserved some kinda boost. They're too easily slain/removed. :S

[MR. Lurtzy]

Saruman's hands aren't that strong.

[Mythdracon]

But they're not Saruman's hands! *protests*

[TheJord]

Erm with Throne of Isengard those Wizards are pretty nasty ie damage +2, and with Saruman or an Man out Men Will Fall is an effective pump

[Mythdracon]

True, I made another deck build with those cards in mind. But it doesn't work against all RB fellowships. :S

Now, let's say Gandalf heals at a sanctuary--would the deceived wizard (Radagast I think) become active and have a fight in the fellowship phase? O_o

[Elessar's Socks]

No, it just becomes a fierce Wizard minion. It doesn't fight right then for the same reason minions don't fight in the Shadow phase when they're played. In contrast something like A Dark Shape Sprang specifically says to suspend the current phase and begin a skirmish phase.

[Mythdracon]

Ok, thanks. A Dark Shape Sprang looks so cool now...Anyone got deck builds with it?

[Elessar's Socks]

Just splash it in your NG deck of choice? I tend not to bother since They Stole It / Not This Time! is about good for two skirmishes anyway (and I use Hidden Even From Her). But a surprise attack on the Ring-bearer with Old Villain (+2 each discard) can mean the game.

[Mythdracon]

What is NG?

So I guess you're saying it's better to do more damage in skirmishes than to have multiples, I'm guessing because Gollum can lose (and FP gets bonuses for that usually). Right?

[TheJord]

NG = Ninja Gollum

[SomeRandomDude]

What is NG?

So I guess you're saying it's better to do more damage in skirmishes than to have multiples, I'm guessing because Gollum can lose (and FP gets bonuses for that usually). Right?

Heh. Gollum lose? Only if you've got a bad deck.

Check this.

Gollum, Threatening Guide
Promise Keeping
Not This Time
Fat One Wants It
Captured By The Ring

Usually, that's 1 3 vitality comp taken down. Throw into the mix...

They Stole It
You're a Liar and a Thief

And suddenly, you're talking major damage. If you still can't pull off a kill, toss in

Treacherous Little Toad

And the wounds start sticking around for a slow painful deck.

That's how NG works.



My personal favorite combo is actually using Gollum, Stinker and Gollum, Mad Thing to gain access to a creepy Incited/Frenzied Attack racket. Neekerbreekers, Slag Mounds, Courtyar Parapet, tossing in a couple YALAAT and Hidden Even From Her, I've been able to drop up to 5 comps in one turn (Shelob scoring the fifth).

Imagine adding Shotgun Enquea now. Yeah, that's real NG.

[Elessar's Socks]

So I guess you're saying it's better to do more damage in skirmishes than to have multiples, I'm guessing because Gollum can lose (and FP gets bonuses for that usually). Right?

If you can do more damage in multiple skirmishes, more power to you! More opportunities to trigger Promise Keeping. For my deck two skirmishes is about the limit before things become a bit overstretched.

To give an example: Threatening Guide is generally what I use to skirmish. Let's say against the first 3-vitality companion I remove a threat via Not This Time!, exert with Promise Keeping, and discard 3 via They Stole It to kill him. Threats are triggered, and then a threat is added by Threatening Guide. Next skirmish I repeat this process to score another kill against a 3-vitality companion. At this point I might have just 1-2 cards left in hand, which isn't enough for TSI. So unless Gollum can win using his strength or is assigned to someone exhausted, he'd most likely lose the third skirmish.

Basically since I'm running Hidden Even From Her anyway, either I can win the ADSS skirmish and the first regular skirmish (losing the fierce), or I can win the regular skirmish and the fierce. Maybe with everything set up and a few Slippery as Fishes in play I can win the third one, too. But with deck space as tight as it is, usually ADSS isn't a must-have for me.

To tag onto NBarden's post, you can get crazy mileage out of YaLaaT, especially in combination with Incited. Given the choice I think I'd max out YaLaaT first before using ADSS. Wound someone with YaLaaT, exert with Promise Keeping, then pull YaLaaT back with Incited to wound/exert again! Gollum's reach can extend far beyond just two skirmishes.