About the AUSTRIAN Format

[Kralik]

That is disturbing, but I wish there was another way to deal with it besides banning...

Birthday Present and Sorry about Everything aren't cards I use often, but it seems that you could also use them to peel unlimited burdens with a certain other card. If any card had to go I'd ditch SaE and keep TSC. NFFatRoD mostly replaces SaE anyway.

[FingolfinFinwe]

Why not restrict Namarie rather than ban?  "Restrict" is one per deck right?

[Elrohir]

The idea of this Format is to allow old cards aswell as new cards. The second part (7-19) is exactly the same as standard. Furthermore, the great advantage is that this Format is easy and simple.

So I do not understand, why Olorin suddenly ban cards. Namarie is an important countercard against Deceit. Changing rules now, just out of thin air, make this Format not appealing, just more complicate.

Namarie was never agreed to be restricted or x-listed!

@Elrohir:I know which cards are onto the X-list or R-list because I invented the format...

  Are you sure? I thought we had an agreement which cards are allowed and which not. I beg you not to discriminate innocent cards like Into the west, just because you do not like them

Actually, part 1-10 is ruled with preshadow standard lists, part 7-19 is ruled with the current standard lists.
So, there are no exceptions, subjectif rules or any other kind of confusing stuff.

[TheJord]

I dont think everyone will ever be truly 'happy' with a particular X-list... X'ing cards means you have basically given up on that card being balanced and playable.

On a side note, who plays condition heavy standard Shadows anyway? I dont, because you will lose!

[SomeRandomDude]

Okay, this is getting a bit out of hand.

Olorin- we understand you invented the format. It sounds very interesting and very cool. I like it. But the game belongs to the players, and not one particular person.

I say that you have two versions of the format: 1 using the PPE X-list, which is the most widely accepted "fair-format" X-list, and then a second using the Movie Block and Standard X-list.

[King89]

ladies and gentlemen,

no offence to all of you, and i know that many of you play LotR almost many years, but i assume that most of you never faced a gil-galad, hkotn + namarie + leaving forever + archery hunter elfs combo, which is or was perfect seted up. this fellowship cannot be stoped easily, rather nearly by nothing. i made the experience that direct damange shadow is the best way to break them, condition: a very good draw! but even these shadow cards are realy much worth and a lot of player cannot get them 'cause they are way to expensive (saruman, sos; deceit, not this time! and so on...)
so i ask you a question: what shall these players do? right - nothing.

the second point (added to gay-galad and his "homo friends") why i'm a little bit p*** of is, that olorin invented a brilliant format which is close to be perfect and the first thing people do is to charge about some points. criticism is useful, when it's justified. in lotr, let me tell you guys, won't  be a perfect format ever, because everyone has different opinions about the strength of certain cards, combos, fun and so on.
it's ballanced*, so please keep it in this way - no one forces you to play it!


edit*i can appraise it, because we play it since 1 1/2 years.



these were my 2 cents...
King89

[Smeagollum]

About infinite loops, Why don't we agree on a ruling on that. It's better to make a ruling for it then x- or r- cards.

Something like if an infinnite loop occurs you may only use this loop 1 time.

[King89]

About infinite loops, Why don't we agree on a ruling on that. It's better to make a ruling for it then x- or r- cards.

Something like if an infinnite loop occurs you may only use this loop 1 time.

... doesn't work. the rulings must be written down, so that all players, also those who aren't members of this forum, have an access to them. a x-/r-list can be printed.

[Olorin]

I just drew your attention to the fact that in your Movie Block X-list on this forum, there is nothing against this infinite loop.......

Very clever setup! Though...

Thanks!

Why not restrict Namarie rather than ban?  "Restrict" is one per deck right?

This won't play a roll. Namarie can be replayed from the discard pile and meanwhile all Goblin amories, all deceits, all goblin hordes, etc - simply all shadow conditions are discarded... or in the regroup all elven conditions are replayed from the discard pile (ancient blade, etc.) - and this is repeated site by site by site bye site... r-list won't help anything... X-list is a must for Namarie.

Okay, this is getting a bit out of hand.

Olorin- we understand you invented the format. It sounds very interesting and very cool. I like it. But the game belongs to the players, and not one particular person.

I say that you have two versions of the format: 1 using the PPE X-list, which is the most widely accepted "fair-format" X-list, and then a second using the Movie Block and Standard X-list.

Thanks NB. Your suggestion sounds logically - BUT: we need ONE X-/R-list for that format. We all know decipher made a lot of mistakes - especially in the later sets. The format ruled by my idea just sounds so best and simple.
And you're right - the game belongs to the players... so anyone may play as he or she wants - but if you play a format "AUSTRIAN FORMAT" it would be as listed here.
Of course I am open for any other suggestions concerning everything... but first, I want that everybody understand how it works - the set up is simple and nearly perfect as I think.

Enola is correct, the X-list is to stop devastating infinite loops and abusable cards. Namarie is easily dealt with as it is a condition, but some people dont like it as it gets used A LOT.

Namarie is not just a conditon which you just discard and don't see again --> Gil-gald HkofN
Namarie kill decks - I want that older shadows like Moria, etc. also have got a chance - Namarie destroys decks - I don't understand why you don't realize the brokeness of that card.
Namarie doesn't only discard ALL conditions easily... it can therefore decide a game (e.g. condition based shadows).
Namarie doesn't only discard ALL conditions easily... as it is a cards where - when played - are added so much tokens (not just one...)... so many other conditions can be replayed (take up the bow, elven marksmanship, ancient blade, leaving forever, and further Namarie).
Elven hunters are already overpowered - or do you think that Rumil and Orophin decks with an excellent threat removal machine (into the west), healing (farwell to lorien, nenya, etc.), condition discard and condition replay engine is balanced? infinite direct damage...

I thougtht about this format and it is good as it is. If anyone have other wishes how an X-list should look like it won't work.
I also know why Elrohir started here a public discussion - he plays Namarie... I know his decks very well.

But I don't like further discussions on Namarie.

The format is simple to understand... only a few cards are on X- or R-list... and again... the format is simple. It allows to play nearly everything (like expanded) without beeing broken - and expanded is broken.

If anyone has ideas on other cards than Namarie on the X- or R-list you could post it here... perhaps someone gives even reason to put a card onto that list (other infinite loops which I didn't consider) - then I would like to know...

...and how about The shire countryside now? Is there a problem of infinite loop now?

and especially to you Elrohir: no further discussions about Namarie please.  Be happy Gil is not banned and there are other cards that replay a lot elven conditions in the regroup. - fine - Ende - finito!

[TheJord]

I dont know about you, but my Elven Hunters have regularly been killed by Uruk Hunters. Saruman, AotDL + White Hand Guard + Ugluk, Ugly Fellow at Rohan Uplands. No conditions...

[Olorin]

I dont know about you, but my Elven Hunters have regularly been killed by Uruk Hunters. Saruman, AotDL + White Hand Guard + Ugluk, Ugly Fellow at Rohan Uplands. No conditions...

If Uruks don't want to get some wounds... just discard them... discard them all in archery... --> using one or two (or if you are very luckily 3) take up the bow and discard them... so, if you got two of them and 6 archers... which is not to difficult... discard white hand guard... and perhaps Ugluk or Saruman...
the rest one or two minions you can handle easy... you just need be careful not to lose to much comps... because Uruks normally don't have got site manipulation... and this is only one site... and Elven hunters are strong too.

While Rumil SE is skirmishing against a wounded minion he is strength 10. (9 + Hunter 1) - the same strength like Ent Horde or Host of Fangorn - but the ents don't have got the wound ability.
and normal the elves are set up quick (start with rumil and orophin - pull Glorfindel with prancing pony) - exert next site 2 hunters to get gorn (site: play hunter from draw deck... until site 3 you should be set up and have already given the most pool... until the uruks aren't roaming anymore you won't give much pool... so they can't be so much... :-)
but your're right, Jordy... Uruk hunters at that site are not fun - especially with violent hurl :-)

[Smeagollum]

So can a rulingdocumen

About infinite loops, Why don't we agree on a ruling on that. It's better to make a ruling for it then x- or r- cards.

Something like if an infinnite loop occurs you may only use this loop 1 time.

... doesn't work. the rulings must be written down, so that all players, also those who aren't members of this forum, have an access to them. a x-/r-list can be printed.

So can a ruling document 

[Kralik]

...and how about The shire countryside now? Is there a problem of infinite loop now?

Infinite loop to heal all and/or peel all burdens, which could be stopped by either 1) Prohibiting infinite loops (a very simple rule to understand IMO) or 2) X-ing either SaE or TSC. I propose SaE because I loves TSC.

So can a ruling document 

i.e. The top posts of this very thread!

[FingolfinFinwe]

Why not restrict Namarie rather than ban?  "Restrict" is one per deck right?

This won't play a roll. Namarie can be replayed from the discard pile and meanwhile all Goblin amories, all deceits, all goblin hordes, etc - simply all shadow conditions are discarded... or in the regroup all elven conditions are replayed from the discard pile (ancient blade, etc.) - and this is repeated site by site by site bye site... r-list won't help anything... X-list is a must for Namarie.

Yes I suppose you are correct.  I would like to be able to play Namarie... more because I really like the name and picture more than anything .  But I do see the brokenness.  The only way to fix it besides x-listing is an errata.. and that's always annoying to keep track of.

[Smeagollum]

...and how about The shire countryside now? Is there a problem of infinite loop now?

Infinite loop to heal all and/or peel all burdens, which could be stopped by either 1) Prohibiting infinite loops (a very simple rule to understand IMO) or 2) X-ing either SaE or TSC. I propose SaE because I loves TSC.

So can a ruling document 

i.e. The top posts of this very thread!

Who doesn't love TSC!!!!!