Proposed Errata and Discussion

[Smeagollum]

Here are my sugestions for solving this:

(2) Namarie
Condition • Support Area
When you play this condition, add an token here for each hunter you can spot. At the start of the maneuver phase: Discard this or remove a token from here and spot an hunter to discard a condition.

With making it a start of action you limit this action, which makes it less good.

(2) Frenzy of Arrows
Event • Archery
Spot an and an archer minion to add 2 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 2 to the minion archery total for each follower you can spot.

Solves the [Orc} Archer problem. Makes it also less good, because you need to combine 2 races/cultures.

(5) •Gil-galad, High King of the Noldor
Companion • Elf
Strength: 9
Vitality: 4
Resistance: 7
To play, spot 2 companions. At the start of the maneuver phase: Add a threat to take an skirmish event into hand from your discard pile. At the start of the regroup phase: Remove an token to play an condition from your discard pile.

Here as well: Limiting the actions solves the problem.

(3) •Galadriel, Lady Redeemed
Companion • Elf
Strength: 3
Vitality: 3
Resistance: 6
When Galadriel is in your starting fellowship, her twilight cost is -3. At the start of the fellowship or regroup phase: Discard an event from hand to discard a Shadow condition or Shadow possession.


Here as well: Limiting the actions solves the problem.

(1) • The Shire Countryside
Condition
To play, spot 2 companions. Plays to your support area. Each time you remove a burden (except by a Hobbit's game text), you may heal a companion.
"'Life in the wide world goes on... scarcely even aware of the existence of hobbits....'"

making it unique is solving the mass healing. Also there is no use exerting a companion with Sorry About Everything for removing a burden and then to add a burden with Birthday Present to get Sorry About Everything back into hand to do this again. Besides that there is the ruling of 4.

(3) •Troll's Keyward, Keeper of the Beast
Minion • Orc
Strength: 8
Vitality: 3
Site: 4
Lurker. (Skirmishes involving lurker minions must be resolved after any others.) Shadow: Exert Troll's Keyward and reveal your hand to add (1) for each Troll revealed. This minion can not be discarded by any Shadow Player during the Shadow phase.

Not named by any of you, but this is what I think is realy an infinnite loop: Play TKW exert him twice generate x pool play another 4 minions (to much suprise you'll play Orkish Scout). Then discard those 5 minions to play a mountaintroll. With Mountain troll you play back TKW exert him twice to generate x twillight. Play with Mountain Troll another 4 minions from your discard pilek so you can do the trick again. In the end you will face all the minions which your opponent had in hand and the minions which were in his discardpile. And if it does not kill your fellowship the first time, well then it will happen the 2nd time, because you'll also play Goblin Hordes and you'll make sure that the site which is played is an underground (watchfull Orc). With adding this phrase: "This minion can not be discarded by any Shadow Player during the Shadow phase." You'll limit this action to only one time per shadowphase.

Well hope you can do anything with it. It are just thoughts about how this can be solved without x-listing cards (which I think is stupid and what I think will keep deviding playergroups, because the'll keep using own lists. I know Amsterdam will, because we are against x-listing cards).

Regards,

Jw

[Gil-Estel]

JW the problem of Keyward isn't the ability to play him again...the problem is the possibility to add a warg on him :S....they should have kept wargrider in the cards.....

[Smeagollum]

Gil: That does count for more orcs, not only for the keyward. But for what I described the combo Keyward and Mountain Troll will be sufficient without wargs (I think combining it would even make it weaker, because you can't put everything in it).

[King89]

frenzy of arrows is still wayyyyyyy too good! cause when it was playable, nearly everyone combined it with  archers to get a deathly shadow.

[Smeagollum]

Okay then:

(2) Frenzy of Arrows
Event • Archery
Spot an Orc and an archer minion to add 2 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 2 to the minion archery when you can spot a follower.

[MuadDib85]

I think +2 then +2 again is still a bit overpowered. Gothmog with men archery, is strong enough without 4x of this event being added to every deck.

Maybe if it's twilite cost was 4...?

Okay then:

(2) Frenzy of Arrows
Event • Archery
Spot an Orc and an archer minion to add 2 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 2 to the minion archery when you can spot a follower.

I think +2 then +2 again is still a bit overpowered. Gothmog with men archery, is strong enough without 4x of this event being added to every deck.

Maybe if it's twilite cost was 4...?

[Smeagollum]

I think +2 then +2 again is still a bit overpowered. Gothmog with men archery, is strong enough without 4x of this event being added to every deck.

Maybe if it's twilite cost was 4...?

Okay then:

(2) Frenzy of Arrows
Event • Archery
Spot an Orc and an archer minion to add 2 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 2 to the minion archery when you can spot a follower.

I think +2 then +2 again is still a bit overpowered. Gothmog with men archery, is strong enough without 4x of this event being added to every deck.

Maybe if it's twilite cost was 4...?

hmmm... isn't there a way to make events unique playing them?

Will this balance things more?

(2) Frenzy of Arrows
Event • Archery
Spot an Orc and an archer minion to add 1 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 1 to the minion archery when you can spot a follower.

[MuadDib85]

(2) Frenzy of Arrows
Event • Archery
Spot an Orc and an archer minion to add 1 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 1 to the minion archery when you can spot a follower.

This looks better to me. 

[Kralik]

(1) • The Shire Countryside
Condition
To play, spot 2 companions. Plays to your support area. Each time you remove a burden (except by a Hobbit's game text), you may heal a companion.
"'Life in the wide world goes on... scarcely even aware of the existence of hobbits....'"

making it unique is solving the mass healing. Also there is no use exerting a companion with Sorry About Everything for removing a burden and then to add a burden with Birthday Present to get Sorry About Everything back into hand to do this again. Besides that there is the ruling of 4.

The trick would be to combine it with A Light in His Mind to manipulate 4 no 3 no 4 no 3 no 4 no 3 no... cards in hand. But it requires setup, and with the Rule of 4 counting on discard, I don't think it needs to be made unique.

[FingolfinFinwe]

hmmm... isn't there a way to make events unique playing them?

Will this balance things more?

(2) Frenzy of Arrows
Event • Archery
Spot an Orc and an archer minion to add 1 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 1 to the minion archery when you can spot a follower.

I agree with changing the 2's to 1's, but I think we should leave the rest of the text as is.  Makes it a powerful card, but not as ridiculous as before.  Followers need some hate.

I like the idea of changing both Namarie and Gilgalad to "At the start of the Maneuver phase..."

[MR. Lurtzy]

I like most of those changes, but Troll's Keyward doesn't seem fixed to me.

[Gil-Estel]

He shouldn't be able to bear a Warg, easy as that.

[Gerontius]

My thoughts-
Namarie- If Gil-Galad is allowed, I think it should be changed to, "At the start of the regroup phase...."
Frenzy of Arrows- I think it's easier just to ban it.
Gil-Galad- Smeagollum's version is better. Still would be annoying, but it's better.
Galadriel- This one I would still disagree with. In most cases you don't need to use it more than once a turn anyway. Banning, once again, would be easier.
TSC- I like Smeagollum's version, R-list might be simpler though.
Trolls Keyward- "Exhaust this minion and reveal your hand" maybe?

[sickofpalantirs]

exhausting could be done infinite times.
FoA is already unusuable, no reason to ban.

[Elessar's Socks]

Here are my sugestions for solving this:

(2) Namarie
Condition • Support Area
When you play this condition, add an token here for each hunter you can spot. At the start of the maneuver phase: Discard this or remove a token from here and spot an hunter to discard a condition.

Discarding a condition in the maneuver phase at every site is IMO still too strong. Maybe change it to at the start of the regroup phase. Lothlorien Guides and Seclusion can still be used if maneuver discarding is required.

Earlier the insinuation was made that people who couldn't / didn't want to handle condition discard weren't being creative. Maybe to a point, but I'd argue that effortlessly squashing Shadow attempts to set up something "creative" isn't exactly praiseworthy, either. I think this is at least a step in the right direction.

(5) •Gil-galad, High King of the Noldor
Companion • Elf
Strength: 9
Vitality: 4
Resistance: 7
To play, spot 2 companions. At the start of the maneuver phase: Add a threat to take an skirmish event into hand from your discard pile. At the start of the regroup phase: Remove an token to play an condition from your discard pile.

Nice, simple way of stopping the loop.

(2) Frenzy of Arrows
Event • Archery
Spot an Orc and an archer minion to add 1 to the minion archery total. If you do, you may add an additional 1 to the minion archery when you can spot a follower.

Well... it's no longer broken or useless, but IMO this errata is too arbitrary (and difficult to remember). I'd go for something cleaner, for example:

"Spot an minion to add 2 to the minion archery total. Then add an additional 2 to the minion archery total if you can spot a Free Peoples follower."