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Author Topic: Dual-Coloured Charms  (Read 9068 times)

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March 15, 2010, 11:28:02 AM
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Thranduil

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Dual-Coloured Charms
« on: March 15, 2010, 11:28:02 AM »
For those of you who keep up on this board, you'll know that I'm a little obsessed with making charms! I basically love the design exercise and making a charm that really speaks is a tough and rewarding achievement! So this is a cycle of allied colour charms. I'm not sure that these do what I set out to do, which is why I'm posting them so I can hear your opinions.

Star Charm (W)(U)
Instant U
Choose one - Scry 2; or counter target spell that targets a permanent you control; or target creature gains flying until end of turn.

Shadow Charm (U)(B)
Instant U
Choose one - Each creature gets -2/-0 until end of turn; or counter target noncreature spell unless its controller pays [2]; or target player discards a card.

Lava Charm (B)(R)
Instant U
Choose one - ~ deals 1 damage to each creature without flying; or ~ deals 3 damage to target player; or add (B)(B)(R)(R) to your mana pool.

Wild Charm (R)(G)
Instant U
Choose one - Each creature you control gains haste until end of turn; or search your library for a basic land card and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library; or destroy target artifact.

Stone Charm (G)(W)
Instant U
Choose one - Return target permanent card from your graveyard to your hand; or target creature gets +3/+3 until end of turn; or regenerate target creature.
« Last Edit: June 13, 2010, 02:40:31 PM by Thranduil »

March 15, 2010, 12:14:05 PM
Reply #1

FM

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Re: Dual-Coloured Charms
« Reply #1 on: March 15, 2010, 12:14:05 PM »
I'm not really fond of dual-colored charms having 3 choices. This kind of defeats the designing of charms, which is to tie in an ability for each color of mana it costs.

March 15, 2010, 01:07:49 PM
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Thranduil

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Re: Dual-Coloured Charms
« Reply #2 on: March 15, 2010, 01:07:49 PM »
I'm not really fond of dual-colored charms having 3 choices. This kind of defeats the designing of charms, which is to tie in an ability for each color of mana it costs.
Not strictly true. http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Search/Default.aspx?action=advanced&name=+[charm]&type=+[%22Instant%22]

That link is annoying, but compare to Chaos Charm, Piety Charm and many others that you can find if you copy and paste the link above into your browser.

One of the defining features of a charm is 3 abilities - I don't think there's been dual-coloured charms before.

Thranduil

March 16, 2010, 03:04:42 AM
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lem0nhead

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Re: Dual-Coloured Charms
« Reply #3 on: March 16, 2010, 03:04:42 AM »
Theyre all fine but id be really really careful with lava charm. Dark ritual was one of the silliest cards ever, and this is effectively the same, but more versatility. Plus the fact its jund colours and that makes an already ridiculous tournament deck even worse potentially!
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March 16, 2010, 04:24:15 AM
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Thranduil

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Re: Dual-Coloured Charms
« Reply #4 on: March 16, 2010, 04:24:15 AM »
Theyre all fine but id be really really careful with lava charm. Dark ritual was one of the silliest cards ever, and this is effectively the same, but more versatility. Plus the fact its jund colours and that makes an already ridiculous tournament deck even worse potentially!
On the other hand, you can't Lava Charm on turn 1 and put out Hypnotic Specter. In Jund what does it allow you to play on turn 2? No (G) so not Leech or Bloodbraid Elf, you could play Blightning and waste 1 mana, turn 1 Terminate into 2 (killing two creatures they played on 1 & 2?). Allows you to play Broodmate on turn 4, but otherwise it doesn't seem that great to me.

March 16, 2010, 04:51:50 AM
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lem0nhead

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Re: Dual-Coloured Charms
« Reply #5 on: March 16, 2010, 04:51:50 AM »
Hmm perhaps but mana accel for black and red seems dangerous, regardless of specific examples.

Also what Jund have you seen what plays hypnotic specters?!?
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March 16, 2010, 04:56:17 AM
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Thranduil

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Re: Dual-Coloured Charms
« Reply #6 on: March 16, 2010, 04:56:17 AM »
Also what Jund have you seen what plays hypnotic specters?!?
No sorry, wasn't talking about Jund at that point. That was one of the main reason Dark Ritual has not been printed in a while. You used to go turn 1 Dark Ritual into Hypnotic Specter, turn 2 hit them with hippie and cast Hymn to Torach (double (B), discard 2 cards) and there was basically no coming back from that.

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March 16, 2010, 05:14:28 AM
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FM

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Re: Dual-Coloured Charms
« Reply #7 on: March 16, 2010, 05:14:28 AM »
I play that in Legacy still! :D

March 18, 2010, 12:21:23 PM
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Thranduil

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Re: Dual-Coloured Charms
« Reply #8 on: March 18, 2010, 12:21:23 PM »
Well those were the allied colour charms - what about the enemy colours I hear you ask?

I thought just doing the same charm treatment again would be fairly dull, so I took a slightly different model - that of the Command cycle (Cryptic, Profane, Austere, Incendiary and Primal to be precise!).

Now I'm under the impression that the order for these sorts of cards matters greatly (so for example, in the case of Mutation Charm, the fact that it writes the tutor for a creature before the Dramatic Entrance means that you can put a creature straight into play if you want). Am I right?

Resurrection Charm [3](W)(B)
Sorcery R
Choose two - Destroy each creature; or search your library for a creature card with converted mana cost equal to or less than the number of lands you control and put it into your graveyard; or return target creature card in a graveyard to the battlefield under your control; or exile target player's graveyard.

Intelligence Charm [1](U)(R)
Instant R
Choose two - Return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand; or return target instant or sorcery card in a graveyard to its owner's hand; or target player draws a card; or ~ deals damage equal to target player equal to the number of cards in his or her hand.

Cyclical Charm [1](B)(G)
Instant R
Choose two - Target player sacrifices a creature; or return target card in your graveyard to your hand; or destroy target noncreature permanent; or search your library for a land card and put onto the battlefield.

Righteousness Charm [2](R)(W)
Instant R
Choose two - ~ deals 3 damage to target creature or player and you gain 3 life; or gain control of target creature until end of turn, untap it and it gains haste until end of turn; or creatures you control get +2/+2 until end of turn; or ~ deals 2 damage to each creature.

Mutation Charm [3](G)(U)
Instant R
Choose two - Search your library for a creature card, reveal it and put it into your hand; or put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield; or put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control; or each creature you control gains flying until end of turn.
« Last Edit: March 25, 2010, 08:32:24 AM by Thranduil »

March 25, 2010, 08:16:44 AM
Reply #9

FM

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Re: Dual-Coloured Charms
« Reply #9 on: March 25, 2010, 08:16:44 AM »
Star Charm (W)(U)
Instant U
Choose one - Scry 2; or counter target spell that targets a permanent you control; or target creature gains flying until end of turn.

I actually think this is kind of subpar, although I can definitely see it being used in control decks. However, might be a Limited-oriented card more than a Constructed-oriented one, and in this case it's great.

Shadow Charm (U)(B)
Instant U
Choose one - Each creature gets -2/-0 until end of turn; or counter target noncreature spell unless its controller pays [2]; or target player discards a card.

I'd actually let it outright counter a spell, no strings attached. Otherwise, it'll be outshone quickly. Anothe nice card, although I can't justify not stretching for Esper Charm if both are in the same environment. I think a kill spell of sorts would make it more appealing. Consider the versatility of Agony Warp, for instance.

Lava Charm (B)(R)
Instant U
Choose one - Target creature gets -2/-2 until end of turn; or target creature gets +1/+0 and first strike until end of turn; or add (B)(B)(R)(R) to your mana pool.

Kind of lame for a kill spell, combining those colors. I'd make it -3/-3 (as in Nameless Inversion) or merge the first two options, like giving it +2/-2 and first strike. As for the mana adding ability, I'd actually tamper with hybrid mana symbols, adding (R)(R/B)(B) so it's not that powerful.

Wild Charm (R)(G)
Instant U
Choose one - Each creature you control gains haste until end of turn; or search your library for a basic land card and put it into your hand, then shuffle your library; or destroy target noncreature artifact.

I'd loose the "noncreature" clause and let it outright kill them (Ancient Grudge does, for instance). Other than that, great.

Stone Charm (G)(W)
Instant U
Choose one - Return target permanent card from your graveyard to your hand; or target creature gets +3/+3 until end of turn; or regenerate target creature.

I'd make it return "target card" instead.

March 25, 2010, 08:23:40 AM
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FM

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Re: Dual-Coloured Charms
« Reply #10 on: March 25, 2010, 08:23:40 AM »
Resurrection Charm [3](W)(B)
Sorcery R
Choose two - Destroy each creature; or search your library for up to 2 creature cards and put them into your graveyard; or return target creature card in a graveyard to the battlefield under your control; or exile target player's graveyard.

The second and third modes are WAAAAAY too powerful combined, and with the first one, you can play control and reanimator, all packed in one, without having to jump through ANY hoops at all?! Sure, it costs. But seriously, it costs too little when you can load up your graveyard for ANOTHER ressurrection spell AND get the benefit of one right away. Not sure how to balance it, but right now it's waaaaay too much.

Intelligence Charm [2](U)(R)
Instant R
Choose two - Return target nonland permanent to its owner's hand; or return target instant or sorcery card in a graveyard to its owner's hand; or target player draws a card; or ~ deals damage equal to target player equal to the number of cards in his or her hand.

Nice. Might cost too much, perhaps [1](R)(U) or (R/U)(R)(U).

Cyclical Charm [2](B)(G)
Instant R
Choose two - Target player sacrifices a creature; or return target card in your graveyard to your hand; or destroy target noncreature permanent; or search your library for a land card and put onto the battlefield.

The last effect is lame even considering it cheats lands into play aside from the "one-per-turn" you get. I think this is well costed at [1](B)(G).

Righteousness Charm [2](R)(W)
Instant R
Choose two - ~ deals 3 damage to target creature or player and you gain 3 life; or gain control of target creature until end of turn, untap it and it gains haste until end of turn; or creatures you control get +2/+2 until end of turn; or ~ deals 2 damage to each creature.

NICE.

Mutation Charm [3](G)(U)
Instant R
Choose two - Search your library for a creature card, reveal it and put it into your hand; or put a creature card from your hand onto the battlefield; or put a +1/+1 counter on each creature you control; or each creature you control gains flying until end of turn.

Same issue with the first one, first two abilities are insane combined. Specially at instant speed.

March 25, 2010, 08:29:27 AM
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Thranduil

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Re: Dual-Coloured Charms
« Reply #11 on: March 25, 2010, 08:29:27 AM »
The second and third modes are WAAAAAY too powerful combined, and with the first one, you can play control and reanimator, all packed in one, without having to jump through ANY hoops at all?! Sure, it costs. But seriously, it costs too little when you can load up your graveyard for ANOTHER ressurrection spell AND get the benefit of one right away. Not sure how to balance it, but right now it's waaaaay too much.
Yeah I knew that one was super powerful. Should probably replace the Buried Alive mode with something else...

Same issue with the first one, first two abilities are insane combined. Specially at instant speed.
I'm kind of alright with this in (U)(G) though - it's kind of what (U)(G) does best. Could definitely be a sorcery though, and/or cost more, as the other two modes are quite aggressive.

For the allied charms, in general I noticed that each of the abilities on 3 mana charms were more or less equivalent to a 2 mana spell, and so I tried to make each of the abilities for the 2 mana charms equal to about a 1 mana spell. Not saying it's right or wrong, but that was my thinking. I love your suggestion for a Nameless Inversion type effect for the Lava Charm though - very nice.

Thanks for your thoughts!

Thranduil

June 12, 2010, 10:09:41 PM
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Re: Dual-Coloured Charms
« Reply #12 on: June 12, 2010, 10:09:41 PM »
Lava Charm is way OP. Kill a toughness 2 crit, 3 to the face, or more mana, all in one card? What BR deck wouldn't pack 4 of those? The R/W Charm I'd add an extra mana too it. I mean, kill a crit, lifegain and swing with a crit for 4 mana? Nah. That's a finisher card right there, or at least a gamebreaker.

Then of course Mutation Charm as F_M pointed out, that's like, EOT- search your library for any creature card
and put it in play. Especially with green. I mean, that's like asking for a "turn 3 I win" mana ramp.
« Last Edit: June 12, 2010, 10:17:27 PM by SomeRandomDude »
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June 16, 2010, 10:49:34 AM
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Re: Dual-Coloured Charms
« Reply #13 on: June 16, 2010, 10:49:34 AM »
Lava Charm is now pretty borderline bad, and mutation charm is still insane. Compare it to Polymorph, which is still insanely good enough to have entire decks built around it, AND posting good enough results to make it a real contender for gameplans.