LOTR TCG Second Edition: Reprints

[Hobbiton Lad]

In considering what cards to carry over from 1E to 2E, I really think it needs to be minimal. To pay homage to 1E and keep culture identity, however, I'd like to propose reprinting five "signature" cards (or just useful cards) from each culture. For example, here are some possibilities for Dunland reprints:

Death to the Strawheads
Dunlending Elder
Hides
War Club
Wulf

What does the community think? More or less than 5 cards?

[hsiale]

It is too early for such questions.

To think about such things, you need to start from designing the overall goals of each culture. Once you know what they are, and what kind of cards are needed to achieve them, you can start thinking about card choices.

Other issue is that cultures vary in size. Dunland is a good example as it is the smallest. There are 51 cards in the whole game. Only one competitive deck type, which uses more or less 11 of those cards regularly and maybe another 10 as occasional additions. So in fact this is a culture of around 20 cards. Reprinting 5 means reprinting 25%.

On the other hand we have culture. It's 138 cards, at least 4 competitive decks (Southron archery, mounted Southrons, 2 burden Easterlings, Corsairs) plus Under Foot swarm which is half Raider, half Moria; plus the Southron Archer/heavy site control combo. Around 60 playable cards, so 5 is less than 10%.

I think a starting point should be defining cultures and viable deck types we aim for. Once we do this, we can move to details. I did a brief start to this - a list of decktypes possible in current LotR with short descriptions. I think once we have decktypes we want to support (of course I don't claim that my list is complete, I just stopped at nice number of 30 decks for each side) we can concentrate on making them balanced against each other by changing some cards. And finetune it by sitepath.

BTW, I still think we can safely do way more reprints. Decks that are strong enough can be based entirely on reprints. There will still be really lots of work to get the remaining ones up to a decent level of competitiveness (the most diverse formats currently existing have a bit more than 10 viable sides, getting over 30 will make a game with lots of replayability, but will require lots of testing).

The (incomplete) list of LotR decktypes. Some of those decks have some features in common, maybe even some people would not call them different, just two versions of the same deck. This is a starting point, final descriptions (before we start thinking about cards) should be in way more detail.

Free Peoples

Elven Archery - aims to kill most minions during archery phase. Key cards: The Splendor of Their Banners, Elven Bow, Double Shot, Greenleaf.

Elven Telepathy - uses top card of the deck as a resource. Key cards: Gandalf MoW, Cirdan, Forearmed, Nenya RoA.

Rivendell Allies - uses support from Rivendell to make companions stronger and healthy. Key cards: Shoulder to Shoulder, Elrond HtGg, Lady Undomiel

Lorien Allies - can bring allies to fight. Key cards: Horn of Boromir, Lorien Allies, Boromir DoMT

Last Alliance - versatile deck that is decent against any shadow. Key cards: Aragorn RotN with Anduril, Greenleaf, Last Alliance of Elves and Men

Ranger Choke - little twilight, some archery, some strength. Key cards: Aragorn's Bow, Greenleaf, Arwen FeM, Gondor Bowmen

Knights - uses fortifications to take down minions. Key cards: 6th and 4th Level, Gondor Bow

Noble Leaders - using many artifacts and main Gondor characters. Key cards: Elendil with Narsil, Sapling of the White Tree, Denethor LoMT

Ring-bound Rangers - making minions roaming and getting bonuses when they are. Key cards: Ranger's Bow, Faramir CoG, Arrows Thick in the Air

Gondor Wraiths - immune to wounds and enduring. Key cards: Swept Away, Stronger and More Terrible, Aragorn Driven by Need

Gondor and Gandalf - a bit similar to Noble Leaders, but using SFTS to set up and with less focus on Gondor. Key cards: Gandalf LoM, Saved From the Fire, Aragorn, Faramir

Help in Doubt and Need - a deck using strong Gondor and Rohan companions who help each other in skirmish. Key cards: Help in Doubt and Need, Red Arrow

Merry's Sword - a deck running a 9 companions fellowship and using Merry's Sword to defend when Ulaire Enquea is played or to exert any other minions that are a problem. Key cards: Merry with Sword, Eowyn LoI

Valiant Rohan - a deck using suboptimal but valiant Rohan companions, which gives access to Let Us Be Swift

Beatdown Rohan - four very strong Rohan companions. Key cards: Eomer TMoR with all his equipment, Simbelmyne

Edoras Allies - a deck using Rohan allies to help companions. Key cards: allies, Well-stored.

Rohandalf - uses Gandalf to do what Rohan can't do. Key cards: same as Rohan, additionally Deep in Thought, Out of the High Airs

SFTF Ents - rapid setup and strong companions. Key cards: Gandalf LoM, Saved From the Fire, Radagast, Treebeard KotW, Barliman Butterbur

Hobbit Hospital - lots of healing thanks to allies from Shire, this deck survives anything and is ready to repeat next turn. Key cards: Farmer Maggot, Rosie, stealth cards, Frodo OBH

Dauntless Hunter - choke and quite decent companions. Key cards: Legolas DH, Sam GEW, A Promise, A Talent for not Being Seen, Narrow Escape

Merry, Pippin and Ents - high strength companions and some tricks. Key cards: Everyone Knows, Escape, Ent Draught

Bouncing Hobbits - discarding Merry and Pippin to avoid skirmishes and replay them. Key cards: Knocked on the Head, Merry LG, Pippin W-fR

Hobbits and Aragorn - power to survive and clear the table in regroup. Key cards: Shadowplay, Aragorn Wingfoot, Sam GEW, Narrow Escape

Frodo, Sam and Smeagol - discarding Smeagol to make hobbits stronger. Key cards: Frodo Master of the Precious, Sam Nice Sensible Hobbit

Dwarven Beatdown Choke - strong companions and little twilight. Key cards: Durin III, Blood Runs Chill, Smeagol AH

Dwarven Stacking - strong drawing and bonuses from having cards staced on conditions. Key cards: Gimli FA, Sindri, Slacked Thirsts

Rainbow Wounding - a deck with very many subtypes, depending on cultures chosen as it's impossible to fit all. Key cards: Eowyn LoI, Greenleaf, Smeagol AH, Shadowplay, Aragorn ET, Aragorn's Bow, Great Day, Great Hour

Rainbow Beatdown - a deck with many companions, choosing who to play depending on the opponent. Key cards: Gandalf LotC, Refuge

Pipeweed - Gandalf, Hobbits and Aragorn smoking to be stronger and healthy. Key cards: pipes and weed, Servant of the Secret Fire.

Killer Smeagol - Boromir, Merry, Smeagol fellowship using tricks. Key cards: Smeagol Slinker, Not Listening, Don't Follow the Lights, The Shire Countryside.

Shadow

Ninja Gollum - wounding madness. Key cards: They Stole It, Promise Keeping, Captured by the Ring, Desert Lord, Shelob Her Ladyship

Big Shelob - using orcs to feed the spider. Key cards: Web, Larder, Shelob Eater of Light

Dunland Site Control - taking two sites to kill with Elders. Key cards: Freca, Dunlending Elder, Hides, Ready to Fall, Over the Isen

Southron Archery - lots of archery and lots of threats. Key cards: War Towers, Desert Lord, Seasoned Leader, Rallying Call

Mounted Southrons - strong and fierce minions. Key cards: Desert Lord, Mumak Chieftain, High Vantage, Field of the Fallen, Seasoned Leader

2 Burden Easterlings - getting to two burders and reaching high stregnth. Key cards: Easterling Captain, Small Hope, Easterling Polearm

Corsairs - stealing everything from the fellowship and loading ships to attack stronger. Key cards: Black Sails of Umbar, Castamir, Corsair Marauder

Under Foot Swarm - taking initiative to reconcile multiple times during shadow phase. Key cards: Corsair War Galley, Under Foot, Goblin Runner

Southron Archer Shootout - strong site control engine aiming to fire 20+ archery at site 9. Key cards: Southron Archer, Ships of Great Draught

Big Moria - using strong Moria minions. Key cards: Cave Troll, Host of Moria, Moria Axe

The Balrog - single but very deadly minion. Key cards: Balrog, his support, Goblin Runner

Moria Swarm - aiming at playing 15-20 minions together. Key cards: Goblin Swarms, Goblin Armory, Goblin Scimitar

Moria and Isengard Swarm - less swarm but better wounding protection. Key cards: Isengard Shaman, Isengard Warrior, The Palantir of Orthanc

Isen Orcs Regroup Wounding - making minions survive to regroup and discarding them to hurt companions. Key cards: Trapped and Alone, GBHB

Warg Riders - using Wargs to build big minions that can hurt the fellowship. Key cards: wargs, Wolves of Isengard

Uruk Beatdown - strong Uruk minions. Key cards: Lurtz, Lurtz's Battle Cry

Battleground Uruks - stronger when on battleground, also looking to gain initiative. Key cards: Uruk Vanguard, Suffered Much Loss, Ferocity

Uruk Trackers - fierce uruks. Key cards: Weary, Worry, Mauhur, Ugluk, Vengeance

Uruk Resistance Lowering - [Uruk-hai] cards introduced into . Key cards: Our Foes are Weak, Uruk Zealot

Uruk Archery - deck preparing big archery turn. Key cards: Ranged Commander, Weapons of Isengard

Uruk Machines - building a big kill turn with berserkers. Key cards: Berserk Slayer, Devilry of Orthanc

Uruk Site Control - controlling sites to make minions cheaper and stronger, extra bonus when controlling battlegrounds. Key cards: Attack on Helm's Deep, Down to the Last Child, Pillage of Rohan.

Sauron Wounding - trying to kill off wounds even when losing skirmishes. Key cards: Orc Bowmen, Under the Watching Eye, Hate.

Roaming Sauron - getting their own minions roaming and stronger because of this. Key cards: all "Advance" minions, Rank and File, Orc Banner

Besiegers - controlling sites to play a lot of strong minions. Key cards: Grond, Great Hill Troll, Siege Troop

Threat Sauron - using threats to pump minions high. Key cards: Fires Raged Unchecked, Mordor Guard, Mordor Veteran, Orc Officer

Nazgul Beatdown - striking early, with strong and fierce minions. Key cards: Cantea FtW, Morgul Gates, Attea KoDG, Witch King Morgul King

Morcs - Nazgul and Orcs combination. Key cards: Morgul Brute, Morgul Destroyer, Gollum DaD, Lemenya Assailing Minion

Twilight Nazgul - direct attack on the ring-bearer, trying to force him to put the ring on. Key cards: Witch King Lord of the Nazgul, Fell Beast, It Wants to be Found, Resistance Becomes Unbearable, Wraith-world

Enquea TotO Corruption - adding a lot of burdens. Key cards: Enquea TotO, Between Nazgul and Prey, The Ring is Mine

[Hobbiton Lad]

I appreciate the work you've put into compiling this list. The thing I'm aiming for, however, is a new game as opposed to a revamped version of the existing game. That's why I don't want to reprint so many cards. If people want to play those cards, I'm sure 1E will still be a very healthy environment to play those cards in. But 2E is going to be a totally different game.

[hsiale]

Well, then it is definitely way too early to think about any reprints at all. If you want a new game, you have to do general guidelines first, cards last. Once we know what do you want each culture to do, we can look into the means it can use to achieve its aims. Once such details are set, we can start looking at cards to build those cultures.