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Author Topic: Super-choke freeps with Moria  (Read 7375 times)

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October 19, 2014, 07:03:55 PM
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jcb213

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Super-choke freeps with Moria
« on: October 19, 2014, 07:03:55 PM »
I just finished my 100th game with this deck.  It's record is 92-8, so I thought i'd post it.

Bid 0 every game.  The fellowship doesn't look like much, but when you put 6 or less in the pool until site 7 it's pretty good.  Move 1 site at a time early until you are set up.  You can then easily double against Nazgul and Sauron decks.  Against Moria it depends on when you find your Song Of Durins and how effectively you use them.  If you get them at the right time and play smart, then you can beat Moria.  Having 2 super strong ring-bearers helps a ton at 9.  Uruks is the hardest, but if they don't find Saruman's Power then you have a shot against them too.  If you draw Boromir early, don't put him on the table until you know they aren't playing Uruks.  Having 4 comps for Savagery is way better than having him on the table.  Just hold onto him and wait to play him until Gimli dies.

The shadow is pretty standard Moria with the Isengard Warrior / Shaman / Snows package to shut down archery and/or skirmish stuff.  Many people are afraid to run when they see moria (unless they have sting on table and can check if your hand is good) because you are always at risk of being stupid swarmed even if they don't set up.  When people do risk the double move you can often punish them for it.

I would say the deck won about half of it's games from running and half of it's games from a shadow kill.  This surprised me, because I expected a lot more games to be won by shadow kill.  But, the freeps is way better than I imagined against Nazgul and Sauron.  I also won a lot of games by getting a stop at 7, using the shores for a guaranteed stop at the shores, and then doubling 7-9 with uber choke.


Ring-bearer: Frodo, Reluctant Adventurer
Ring: The One Ring, Isildur's Bane

Adventure deck:
The Prancing Pony
Trollshaw Forest
Council Courtyard
Mithril Mine
The Bridge of Khazad-dum
Dimrill Dale
Anduin Confluence
Shores of Nen Hithoel
Summit of Amon Hen

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Gimli, Dwarf of the Mountain-race  (start)
4x Aragorn, Heir to the White City
1x Boromir, Son of Denethor
1x Sam, Faithful Companion  (start)
1x Thrarin, Dwarven Smith
1x Filibert Bolger, Wily Rascal
1x Rosie Cotton, Hobbiton Lass
1x Dwarven Axe
1x Gimli's Helm
2x Armor
2x Athelas
2x Flaming Brand
2x Ranger's Sword
2x Bill the Pony
2x Hobbit Sword
2x Sting
1x Mithril-coat
3x Song of Durin
2x No Stranger to the Shadows
4x A Promise
2x A Talent for Not Being Seen
1x O Elbereth! Gilthoniel!
1x There and Back Again

Shadow Draw Deck:
2x Isengard Shaman
2x Isengard Warrior
4x Goblin Runner
4x Goblin Scavengers
1x Goblin Scrabbler
2x Goblin Warrior
2x Moria Scout
1x The Balrog, Flame of Udun
1x Úlairë Enquëa, Lieutenant of Morgul
2x Úlairë Nertëa, Messenger of Dol Guldur
4x Goblin Scimitar
3x Host of Thousands
2x Saruman's Snows
4x Goblin Armory
2x Goblin Swarms
1x Relics of Moria
3x They Are Coming

October 19, 2014, 11:16:56 PM
Reply #1

dmaz

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Re: Super-choke freeps with Moria
« Reply #1 on: October 19, 2014, 11:16:56 PM »
I really like choke decks :)

Shadow looks very potent! I'd probably swap something for one more relics. If you lose that, it's nice to have a backup. With the way the deck works you might be able to get away with just 1 Swarms. If someone hits you with Secret Sentinels, it' likely they will go for the They Are Coming and Relics anyway.

One the FP side, I'd say maybe splash a pathfinder and don't forget aragorn's bow. Your distribution of possessions looks good, so I'm not sure what you should pull out for a gorn's bow...even though almost everyone starts Prancing Pony, I can understand why you play 4 Aragorn, since you won't be bidding high...the deck really needs him out right away.

If you're just using gimli to survive through the bridge and then turning him into cannon fodder, you might not need the axe or even the helm...he wouldn't be able to fight the Balrog even with the axe.

November 13, 2014, 05:32:05 PM
Reply #2

FYNO

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Re: Super-choke freeps with Moria
« Reply #2 on: November 13, 2014, 05:32:05 PM »
1 Relics is fine. It's only really good when you have multiple Armories out, so it's not a great early game condition, and usually it gets left alone by Secret Sentinels because the Armories are more important.

I always go for 4x Moria Scout and 4x Host of Thousands, any particular reason you didn't? I suppose the Scout is less essential if you can get Isengard Warrior working. But it seems with only 4 Isengard Orcs, it doesn't look like that would be all that common.

The second Goblin Warrior is the most obvious cut, as he's decidedly mediocre if and once his ability does nothing. After that, nothing jumps out at me. Maybe a Scavengers for a Scout, maybe the second Goblin Swarms.

November 14, 2014, 09:55:48 AM
Reply #3

jcb213

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Re: Super-choke freeps with Moria
« Reply #3 on: November 14, 2014, 09:55:48 AM »
Isengard Warrior actually works a lot.  You hold him and cycle around him, or you use Nertea to get him back (since most people play 5 comps).  You just wait for the right time to drop him.  I wouldn't cut any of the isengard orcs - they often win the game for you against archery decks even after they've killed your conditions with SS.

The 2nd Goblin Warrior is because of Song Of Durin.  If you think you won't see that card, then you don't need it, but if you are seeing a lot of dwarves I wouldn't cut a Goblin Warrior.

You could definitely cut the scrabbler for another Moria Scout or Host, I just like him for annoying elf conidtions like White Arrows and Splendor.  I'd play a 4th Host before a 3rd Moria Scout.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2014, 09:59:26 AM by jcb213 »

November 16, 2014, 11:00:28 AM
Reply #4

sgtdraino

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Re: Super-choke freeps with Moria
« Reply #4 on: November 16, 2014, 11:00:28 AM »
I've been trying this deck out lately, seems pretty good so far. However, I feel like I'm at a big disadvantage against Uruk-hai. I don't think I've won a single game against Uruk-hai.
"I would have followed you, my brother... my captain... my king." - Boromir

November 16, 2014, 12:32:42 PM
Reply #5

jcb213

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Re: Super-choke freeps with Moria
« Reply #5 on: November 16, 2014, 12:32:42 PM »
Out of the 100 games I played with the deck at least 25 of them were against uruks, but I think 5-6 of my 8 losses were against them.

Uruks are tough if you need to double.  When you single along they can't really drop much until late game, so their hand should get clogged and hopefully they won't draw freeps and you can exploit that with your shadow and get a shadow kill.  Only giving them 5-6 pool at site 6 is huge.  You also have to play careful and not drop Boromir until Gimli is dead or they've played all 4 Savageries.  In a few games where I had to go for a freeps win I held Boromir for multiple sites (using Moria to cycle) and then dropped him after killing gimli at 7 or 8.  Having Filibert on the table at sites 8 and 9 is really helpful too.

But, a well-timed saruman's power can be game-breaking, especially if you have drawn conditions but not possessions.  I have noticed that on gemp not everyone plays saruman's power in uruks which seems like a deck-building error to me since saruman's power combats so much garbage.

I would definitely say uruks is this deck's toughest match-up and I always made my plan A to go for a shadow kill against them and then look for opportunities to steal a double move.

November 21, 2014, 03:51:14 PM
Reply #6

sgtdraino

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Re: Super-choke freeps with Moria
« Reply #6 on: November 21, 2014, 03:51:14 PM »
Out of the 100 games I played with the deck at least 25 of them were against uruks, but I think 5-6 of my 8 losses were against them.

I've gotten a little better. Uruks are still the toughest, but I've beaten them a number of times now.

You also have to play careful and not drop Boromir until Gimli is dead or they've played all 4 Savageries.  In a few games where I had to go for a freeps win I held Boromir for multiple sites (using Moria to cycle) and

Yeah, I think a big part of my problem was forgetting to NOT play out 5 guys vs Uruks. They've also got that Uruk who is fierce with 5 guys. It's been going a lot better now that I don't play Boromir unless/until Gimli's dead.

then dropped him after killing gimli at 7 or 8. 

So, do you kill Gimli on purpose, to replace him with Boromir? Or do you only play Boromir if Gimli unavoidably dies?

But, a well-timed saruman's power can be game-breaking, especially if you have drawn conditions but not possessions.  I have noticed that on gemp not everyone plays saruman's power in uruks which seems like a deck-building error to me since saruman's power combats so much garbage.

I think it depends on whether they are relying on a bunch of conditions themselves. Me, I'm a big fan of SP, when I'm using it on somebody else!

I would definitely say uruks is this deck's toughest match-up and I always made my plan A to go for a shadow kill against them and then look for opportunities to steal a double move.

I made a few mods to your deck, that I feel like improved it (for me at least):

Bilbo, Well-spoken Gentlehobbit x2
-Some halfway decent condition discard, like those Saruman's Power.
Stone Trolls x2
-Strength vs Uruks, and ammunition for Bilbo.
Bounder
-One time a guy got something fierce and powerful out on me, and blew away Gimli and Sam early.
Realm of Dwarrowdelf
-Helps keep Gimli alive longer
Took out one Song of Durin
-2 seems to be sufficient
The Number Must be Few
-I sometimes have good luck with this card.
Added one each of:
-Isengard Shaman
-Isengard Warrior
-Saruman's Snows
-Host of Thousands

Now up from 40/40 to 45/45
"I would have followed you, my brother... my captain... my king." - Boromir

December 06, 2014, 07:14:04 AM
Reply #7

sgtdraino

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Re: Super-choke freeps with Moria
« Reply #7 on: December 06, 2014, 07:14:04 AM »
Update: Lately I haven't done well with this deck, to the point that I've pretty much given up on it. It seems like anything that uses mass condition removal knocks out the shadow side, and without that swarm threat I can't move fast enough to beat the opponent to the end.
"I would have followed you, my brother... my captain... my king." - Boromir

February 04, 2015, 07:51:25 PM
Reply #8

ramolnar

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Re: Super-choke freeps with Moria
« Reply #8 on: February 04, 2015, 07:51:25 PM »
I just finished playing this deck to an 8-2 record in Series 3 of the All Cards league. I made a couple changes:

FP: +1 Pathfinder [painless 41st card]

Shadow: +1 Isengard Warrior [I hate archery.]
+1 Moria Scout, -1 Goblin Warrior [expected more Elves than Dwarves, which I saw.]
+1 Relics of Moria, -1 Goblin Swarms [debatable. I don't think it made much difference, because it's tough to get Moria minions to win against decent decks.]
+1 Host of Thousands, -1 They Are Coming [I'd rather get the minion than pay 3 twilight and 3 cards. I didn't need to dump stuff too often.]

I saw many more Elves than Dwarves, so my Goblin Warrior swap was appropriate. I only saw 1 Moria deck, so I didn't enjoy the Song of Durin very much. They can't be played at site 1 in case of Uruks, because they make Gimli one-hittable. I know why they're there, but it's a meta call.

I won 2 games by running and 6 by shadow kill. Both my losses were to Last Alliance / Nazgul. They bid 3 or 4, started Sam and an Elf (1 Arwen, 1 Greenleaf; I think Greenleaf is better), Ponied, and then played healing Boromir, Defender of Minas Tirith with Horn of Boromir. Elf allies support plenty of Secret Sentinels. I would have had one of them at site 7 but they packed Pathfinder. Also, their Tip/Breath Nazgul played the full set of Morgul Gates. That's a nice deck, because against Uruks Sam gets killed early and they run with 4. The deck has to stop at 2 quite often, but the Ford threat will prevent most opponents from jumping through. After that, this deck isn't doubling through. Most decks won't, either. Going second against a Green Dragon Inn bid I assume they would start Aragorn.

I made it through site 9 against Uruks, but the opponent was running Uruk Ravager, not Tower Assassin/Uruk Raider. And I didn't get hit by Saruman's Power, which is just a mistake.

After playing 10 league games and a few casual games, I'd go back to 40/40. On Fellowship, I'd keep 1 Pathfinder and just 2 Song of Durin, but that's a meta call. On Shadow, I'd drop Moria Scout #3 and run 3 Isengard Warrior because I dislike archery, but again it's a meta call, as is the number of Goblin Warrior. Goblin Scrabbler isn't too great either. On Goblin Swarms vs Relics of Moria, I don't know.

Is this deck Tier 1 or upper Tier 2? Unfortunately, I think I'd say the latter, even though jcb213 and I had very good records. There are ways to beat the Shadow, and the Fellowship can't double enough against Ally Hunter Uruks and sometimes Nazgul.