Hobbit Draft Game

[-Enola-]

Hello,

I create the Hobbit draft game. The game is set in the same way as a draft in LOTR TCG, all cards in the main deck and boosters are listed here:

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr



You can follow this link to play the Hobbit Draft Game by direct IP for free.

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Download.html

Next to the name of each card, you have the maximum number of copies you can add to your deck, SdA will not check this.




After a lot of work, you can finally print all the cards in high quality for 8 players here:

HD cards

[Not a Zombie]

Wow, that is beautiful. Nice job

[idleninja]

Awesome artwork! I'll try printing them and play with my family this weekend.

[dmaz]

These are really wonderful! All I need is a new ink cartridge and some nice paper to make decks

Thank you for this contribution!

[-Enola-]

Thank you for your support!
I give you the pdfs to print them easily: (print the Main deck 4 times if there are 4 players)

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ly7dsozr24d9avl/Boosters_4_players.pdf?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w07lu5eb31di9xn/Main_deck.pdf?dl=0

[-Enola-]

We printed all the cards and we start to playtest.
Wargs are a bit strong and Spider a bit unpowered, we continue the playtest.



Update 25/10/2014

Three new Gandalf!! At the beginnning of the draft, players will now choose randomly among 4 different main decks (including each a different Gandalf).

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

[-Enola-]

If you have any comment on game balance or new ideas, tell me.

[dmaz]

If you have any comment on game balance or new ideas, tell me.

I'm going to try to play a few rounds with my wife once I print them all out, and I'll post results with pictures

[-Enola-]

Cool! Thank you for your support.

[dmaz]

Could you explain the drafting procedure a little bit more?

In the booster deck list, for 2 people, for example, it shows:
- 1x each additional FP cards (6 cards).
- 2x each Free Peoples event (20 cards).
- 1x Troll pack (15 cards).
- 1x Wargs pack (15 cards).
- 1x Gollum pack (10 cards).

Does this mean that you mix all of these cards together, randomly, and then put them into 11 card "packs" to draft?
I'm guessing this is the case since the total is divisible by 11

Thanks!

[-Enola-]

Exactly! So you have 3 booster packs of 11 cards for each player to draft between the 2 players and then you build your deck (Bilbo doesn't count in the Free Peoples cards as the Ring-bearer in LOTR TCG).

[dmaz]

@blindg, if you don't like this thread, tell us why. You were the only other one on this thread and a bunch of thumbs down just showed up. Did you not like the hobbit movies?

[blindg]

Unfortunately this is not an ideal first post for me.

I'm not sure what has happened, but I didn't intentionally thumbs down any thread.

I both enjoyed and have my gripes with regards to The Hobbit moves, but ultimately I appreciate what Enola has added to the LotR experience. I did not intend to criticize or demean his efforts in any way. The effort that you've put in, Enola, is outstanding.

I will thumbs up the thread now. Will that (hopefully) override any thumbs down I accidentally gave?

[dmaz]

Unfortunately this is not an ideal first post for me.

I'm not sure what has happened, but I didn't intentionally thumbs down any thread.

I both enjoyed and have my gripes with regards to The Hobbit moves, but ultimately I appreciate what Enola has added to the LotR experience. I did not intend to criticize or demean his efforts in any way. The effort that you've put in, Enola, is outstanding.

I will thumbs up the thread now. Will that (hopefully) override any thumbs down I accidentally gave?

I was probably too overbearing about it, sorry if I came across that way. It would have been more polite of me to ask rather than go finger pointing.

[-Enola-]

Update 27/10/2014

• Thorin, Oakenshield
Cost:4 Vitality:4
While you can spot 2 Dwarf companions, Thorin is twilight cost -2. (better with Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves)

• The Arkenstone   
Smaug's twilight cost is -4.
Skirmish: Discard a card from hand to make a Dwarf companion strength +2. (more balanced now)

Orkish Sneak   
Assignment: Assign this minion to skirmish Bilbo. The Free Peoples player may add a doubt to discard this minion. (it was too powerful with a Warg)

Threatening Warg
Assignment: Remove 2 doubts to assign bearer to Thorin. (too powerful on Azog and Bolg by just exerting twice).

• Azog, The Defiler and • Bolg, Son of Azog
Strength:9 (with 10 and the Threatening Warg, Thorin was easily overwhelmed at site 2).

• Bert , • Tom and • William
Cost:5 (Reduction on Troll's twilight cost)

• Smaug
To play, the fellowship must be at a mountain site. (to avoid the discard of Smaug at site 9 and double move 7-9 in front of Smaug like Balrog FOTR)



I uploaded all the printable pdfs with these modifications. There will be no new modification this next week, you can playtest without any trouble .


https://www.dropbox.com/s/ly7dsozr24d9avl/Boosters_4_players.pdf?dl=0

https://www.dropbox.com/s/w07lu5eb31di9xn/Main_deck.pdf?dl=0

[-Enola-]

Small update 28/10/2014

The new Hobbit draft game card back!

[-Enola-]

Did anyone test the game with proxies ?


I also want to change the Spider culture in the following way :

(20 cards)

2x • Crazy Cob : (4) 9/2/5  Fierce. Each time an Orc is killed or discarded from play (except during the regroup phase), you may play a Spider. Its twilight cost is -2 and strength +2 until the regroup phase.
4x Old Tomnoddy : (4) 8/3/5  Fierce. When you play this minion you may play a Spider from your discard pile
3x Fat Spider : (3) 8/2/5  Fierce. Regroup: Exert this minion to add a burden.
4x Wicked Spider : (3) 7/2/5  Fierce. Skirmish : Discard an Orc to make a Spider strength +2 until the regroup phase.
3x • Lazy Lob : (4) 9/3/5  Fierce. Skirmish: Discard an Orc to make a Spider damage+1.
4x Caught in Webs, Condition, Plays on a Dwarf companion. Limit 1 per character. Each time bearer is assigned to skirmish a Spider, bearer must exert.

What do you think about it?

[-Enola-]

Update 05/11/2014

• Crazy Cob
Cost:4 Strength:9 Vitality:2 Site Number:5
Each time an Orc is killed or discarded from play (except during the regroup phase), you may play a Spider. Its twilight cost is -2 and strength +2 until the regroup phase.

Larder -> • Lazy Lob
Cost:4 Strength:9 Vitality:2 Site Number:5
Skirmish: Discard an Orc to make a Spider damage+1.

Wicked Spider
Cost:3 Strength:7 Vitality:2 Site Number:5
Skirmish: Discard an Orc to make a Spider strength +2 until the regroup phase.

• Gollum, Stinker
Gollum is strength +1 for each doubt.

[-Enola-]

Update 06/11/2014 http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

Additional site cards in Booster deck! There are now 12 cards in each booster deck.

Site 1: Bilbo's Kitchen
Site 3: Rhudaur
Site 4: Great Goblin's Cavern
Site 5: Old Forest Road
Site 6: Lake Town
Site 7: Dale

• Black Arrow   -> • The Master
Cost:2 Strength:5 Vitality:2 Site:6
Fellowship: Exert The Master to discard up to 3 cards from hand and draw an equal number of cards.

• Thror's Map   -> • Dain Ironfoot (the image will be changed with the picture of Bill Connolly)
Cost:3 Strength:7 Vitality:3 No Site!
At the start of the regroup phase, you may discard a follower to discard a minion (except Smaug).
Maneuver: If the fellowship is at a battleground site, exert Dain Ironfoot to allow him to participate in skirmishes until the regroup phase.

• Bard,   The Bowman   (text replaced by the text of Black Arrow)
Archery: Exert Bard to wound a minion. If that minion is Smaug, wound it again.

[Durin's Heir]

Awesome work, sir! It's really nice to see a well-crafted adaptation of The Quest of Erebor in a card game, and the dynamics you chose/created are both simple and efficient. Brilliant!

With the limited card pool you made, you really did well by summarizing the dynamics of Shadow cultures (and cross cultures) into very few cards, and not allowing anyone outside Thorin's Company to be a companion.

If the card pool was larger, there are many things that could be added... there's only one card and lots of elves will be present in the last movie. No Staff for Gandalf, no White Council, Wargs as minions, Free Peoples weapons, Sauron/The Necromancer and the Witch King, no Legolas/Tauriel/Thranduil... There's no room unfortunately. But almost everything regarding Thorin's Company is present, and that's a great achievement.

If you have any comment on game balance or new ideas, tell me.

I noticed there are some points to fix... I haven't printed those beautiful cards and have no one to play them, but there are some loose ends that can be seen somewhat easily with mere theory:


1. Smaug Resurrects!: Given the current texts of Smaug and Battle of the Five Armies, the Shadow player can bring Smaug back to life at Site 9 even if he was killed previously by Bard or anyone else. Either Site 9 should say "Remove 2 doubts to play a minion from your discard pile (except Smaug)", or Smaug should say "To play, the fellowship must be at a mountain site. Smaug may not be played from discard pile". Or even better: "If Smaug gets killed, remove him from the game".

In respect of Smaug, I would add a maneuver ability to him in order to represent his eagerness for vengeance and destruction. "Maneuver: Exert Smaug to discard a non- ally or follower (except Bard)." Not just a mere big minion often killing 2 companions, but a Dragon bringing fire and ruin to entire cities, and forcing everyone else to hide behind their walls. Just like artillery blocking the coming of reinforcements.

2. Boxing Dwarves: There is not a single generic hand weapon for dwarves (or anyone in the FP side), therefore Thorin would be the only dwarf with a chance of not fighting with bare fists. That may be fixed by creating non-unique weapons; an "Axe of Ered Luin" or something like that should be enough, several copies of it might be added to Main Deck/Booster Deck.
    I would love to see the Deathless as an alternative to Orcrist (the latter could be instead of that way). And a diversity of weapons like hammers, bows, axes, spears; Men bearing Swords, or even Dwarves bearing weapons of Men... But I know the current small card pool won't offer that possibility.

Dwarves neither have any Damage Bonus mechanism. That generic hand weapon might say something like "If bearer is at a mountain or battleground site, he is Damage +1" to counter that deficiency. Other cards like events or followers can be adapted to give damage bonuses (Bombur seems like a very damaging fellow!)... The Arkenstone might say "Skirmish: Discard a card from hand to make a Dwarf companion strength +2 and/or Damage +1"... Just suggestions.

Balin, Brother of Dwalin seems too weak. I mean, he fought in the War of the Dwarves and Orcs, 42 years later accompanied Thrain in the first Quest of Erebor, 100 years later was the second leader of Thorin's Company, and swept the Orcs of Moria 47 years after that. He was not only strong but wise, and in my opinion little of those attributes are present in the card. Just an opinion.

3. If there is a Door, there must be a Key!: The Key of Erebor is missing... The map is useless, and the quest futile, without a key to pass the secret door. It is a crucial object, even more important than The One Ring to the Quest's purpose.

I really don't know what to suggest here. Should it be a possession/artifact in the draw deck, or a card you start like The One Ring in LOTR TCG? What attributes should it give: strength, vitality, defender or damage bonuses?

By the way, The One Ring and The Arkenstone should be artifacts.

I can think about two card titles related to that Key: Thrain, Yearner (Follower - Dwarf) and Thror's Door (Site 8, Mountain). There are pictures of a captive Thrain in the expanded version of The Desolation of Smaug.

4. Shotgun Marauders: Orkish Marauder is a little bit too much, in my opinion. It's a steroid-aided version of Shotgun Enquea: it's non-unique, can be played from discard pile with Host of Thousands and Hatred Rekindled (and Site 9), earns vitality with Wargs (and fierce keyword), you can even exhasut Thorin and assign Marauder to him with Threatening Warg... The only drawback is the Shadow player can't force its trigger. Anyway I'd make it unique at least...


That's all, at least by now. If you want to expand the card pool, my axe is at your service!

[-Enola-]

Awesome work, sir! It's really nice to see a well-crafted adaptation of The Quest of Erebor in a card game, and the dynamics you chose/created are both simple and efficient. Brilliant!

Thank you a lot Durin's Heir for your compliments and support .

With the limited card pool you made, you really did well by summarizing the dynamics of Shadow cultures (and cross cultures) into very few cards, and not allowing anyone outside Thorin's Company to be a companion.

In France, we still play tournaments every 2-3 months, and one National each year. I wanted to make a Hobbit TCG cardgame playable in tournament. Since I can't produce cards and boosters to make a TCG, I decided to make a complete boardgame.

The most reasonable boardgame to play in tournament seems to be a draft tournament. For a 8-players tournament, I will print 8 main decks + 2 Booster decks for 4 players so 8*60+2*144=768 cards (a lot of cards and something like 80-100 euros to produce them). I really need a limited card pool. Moreover, a beginner at this game (not at LOTR TCG) needs a clear view on the draft game. Every player has the same deck:
- 30 different FP cards in the main deck
- 8 different  Shadows cards in the main deck, 20 Shadows cards in total
- 9 sites

And the players know that there will be in the boosters:
- FP events, similar as the events from the main deck
- 5 new Shadow cultures
- 6 different new powerful FP cards
- 6 different new sites

If the card pool was larger, there are many things that could be added... there's only one card and lots of elves will be present in the last movie. No Staff for Gandalf, no White Council, Wargs as minions, Free Peoples weapons, Sauron/The Necromancer and the Witch King, no Legolas/Tauriel/Thranduil... There's no room unfortunately. But almost everything regarding Thorin's Company is present, and that's a great achievement.

I wanted to be closer to the book than the movies, which used other books, new characters and new situations. So no White Council, no Sauron/The Necromancer and the Witch King and no Legolas/Tauriel. Thranduil doesn't help the Dwarves, I decided to put him away. I used the Warg-possession way, similar as LOTR TCG, they are always mounted by an Orc. No staff for Gandalf, I replace it by the Dawn take you all! event.

This is for now, but all these cards could be in a next Hobbit draft game extension.

However, I admit, there are Radagast, Azog and Yazneg.
- Radagast is more a reference to LOTR TCG and a way to bring back Gandalf.
- Azog is the main villain of the first two movies. I decided to keep him and place him next to Bolg in the Warg-Riders.
- I needed an unique minion to make the minion who will discard followers, so it was Yazneg.

I noticed there are some points to fix... I haven't printed those beautiful cards and have no one to play them, but there are some loose ends that can be seen somewhat easily with mere theory:


1. Smaug Resurrects!: Given the current texts of Smaug and Battle of the Five Armies, the Shadow player can bring Smaug back to life at Site 9 even if he was killed previously by Bard or anyone else. Either Site 9 should say "Remove 2 doubts to play a minion from your discard pile (except Smaug)", or Smaug should say "To play, the fellowship must be at a mountain site. Smaug may not be played from discard pile". Or even better: "If Smaug gets killed, remove him from the game".

In respect of Smaug, I would add a maneuver ability to him in order to represent his eagerness for vengeance and destruction. "Maneuver: Exert Smaug to discard a non- ally or follower (except Bard)." Not just a mere big minion often killing 2 companions, but a Dragon bringing fire and ruin to entire cities, and forcing everyone else to hide behind their walls. Just like artillery blocking the coming of reinforcements.

Smaug can't be play at site 9, only at site 7 and 8. The fellowship must be at a mountain site to be played, but in the case the fellowship make 7-9, he will stay on the board.
"If Smaug gets killed, remove him from the game". is a good point, but I will keep it simpler even if he is killed at site 7. Maximum 2 sentences on a card and I will consider: "Maneuver: Exert Smaug to discard a non-[Dwarven] follower or a non-[Dwarven] ally (except Bard)." The modeling of your ability is also good.  

2. Boxing Dwarves: There is not a single generic hand weapon for dwarves (or anyone in the FP side), therefore Thorin would be the only dwarf with a chance of not fighting with bare fists. That may be fixed by creating non-unique weapons; an "Axe of Ered Luin" or something like that should be enough, several copies of it might be added to Main Deck/Booster Deck.
    I would love to see the Deathless as an alternative to Orcrist (the latter could be instead of that way). And a diversity of weapons like hammers, bows, axes, spears; Men bearing Swords, or even Dwarves bearing weapons of Men... But I know the current small card pool won't offer that possibility.

In a first version, I made Dwarven Axes and Dwarven Bracers, then I replaced them by 2 events to have all the events in one copy and to bring the total number of FP cards in the main deck to 30 cards.

We can replace some quantity of FP events in the main deck by general weapons:  hammers, bows, axes, spears. But which event have to be removed? The role of these 10 events is to take care of all kind of match-ups.

The followers can boost the companions, but maybe the cost of the aid of some followers is too heavy?
Maybe also stop the restriction to Thorin? But I don't want some prolonged maneuver phases due to a lot of followers.

Dwarves neither have any Damage Bonus mechanism. That generic hand weapon might say something like "If bearer is at a mountain or battleground site, he is Damage +1" to counter that deficiency. Other cards like events or followers can be adapted to give damage bonuses (Bombur seems like a very damaging fellow!)... The Arkenstone might say "Skirimish: Discard a card from hand to make a Dwarf companion strength +2 and/or Damage +1"... Just suggestions.

There are 4 companions with an initial Damage+1 abilitiy. Moreover, Thorin is Damage+2 with Orcrist. If there is a lack of Damage+1, this will be fixed during playtest.

Balin, Brother of Dwalin seems too weak. I mean, he fought in the War of the Dwarves and Orcs, 42 years later accompanied Thrain in the first Quest of Erebor, 100 years later was the second leader of Thorin's Company, and swept the Orcs of Moria 47 years after that. He was not only strong but wise, and in my opinion little of those attributes are present in the card. Just an opinion.

Yes, Balin is really weak in strength, but he can recycle the suitable FP event of your match-up ("wise side") and Ori is a really good way to draw good event cards (maybe draw 3 cards rather than 2 cards?).
It's a good point, I will put him at the same level as his brother Dwalin: Cost 3 Strength 7 Vitality 3 but no Damage+1.

3. If there is a Door, there must be a Key!: The Key of Erebor is missing... The map is useless, and the quest futile, without a key to pass the secret door. It is a crucial object, even more important than The One Ring to the Quest's purpose.

I really don't know what to suggest here. Should it be a possession/artifact in the draw deck, or a card you start like The One Ring in LOTR TCG? What attributes should it give: strength, vitality, defender or damage bonuses?

I remove the Map now. In order to keep 30 cards in the FP side, starting with the Key seems great. But the Key needs a necessary ability for Bilbo. Maybe the ability of Bilbo to avoid Smaug ? And create different Bilbo (like different Gandalf I created) to bring different startings ?

By the way, The One Ring and The Arkenstone should be artifacts.

I know, but I haven't the High-definition templates for and artifacts. I keep them possessions and could still be discarded by William.

I can think about two card titles related to that Key: Thrain, Yearner (Follower - Dwarf) and Thror's Door (Site 8, Mountain). There are pictures of a captive Thrain in the expanded version of The Desolation of Smaug.

Right, it will release soon ^^. But Thrain doesn't follow the company, maybe I can use the image of Thrain for a event. Thror's Door is also good, maybe to replace one of the sites 7: Dale or Erebor ? Site 8 has to be for Smaug (like site 5 FOTR for the Balrog).

4. Shotgun Marauders: Orkish Marauder is a little bit too much, in my opinion. It's a steroid-aided version of Shotgun Enquea: it's non-unique, can be played from discard pile with Host of Thousands and Hatred Rekindled (and Site 9), earns vitality with Wargs (and fierce keyword), you can even exhasut Thorin and assign Marauder to him with Threatening Warg... The only drawback is the Shadow player can't force its trigger. Anyway I'd make it unique at least...

You are probably right. I really want a strong crowd-control, 7 companions seems too big and with more than 4 followers the maneuver phase could be really long. There are many manners to take back the Shotgun Marauders. The only way for the FP player to do something is Battle of Azanulbizar and Lore of Imladris, but not enough if this minion comes back at every site. Maybe only vitality 3? And keep it non-unique.

That's all, at least by now. If you want to expand the card pool, my axe is at your service!

Thank you a lot for your help, it's a pleasure to work on this game with you.

[Cw0rk]

Awesome work. If these were on GEMP, or even some older platform like SdA, I would try it for sure.

[-Enola-]

Thank you for your support Cwork.

I take into account some proposals of Durin's Heir.


Update 09/11/2014   http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

• Balin, Brother of Dwalin   
Cost:3 Strength:7

• Smaug,   The Golden   
Maneuver: Exert Smaug to discard a non-[Dwarven] follower or a non-[Dwarven] ally (except Bard).

Orkish Marauder   
Vitality:3

[Durin's Heir]

Thank you a lot Durin's Heir for your compliments and support .

It's a honour, thanks to you!

In France, we still play tournaments every 2-3 months, and one National each year. I wanted to make a Hobbit TCG cardgame playable in tournament. Since I can't produce cards and boosters to make a TCG, I decided to make a complete boardgame...

... I wanted to be closer to the book than the movies, which used other books, new characters and new situations...

This is for now, but all these cards could be in a next Hobbit draft game extension.

Congrats to you all french people! That looks like a good reason to emigrate there, haha!

I was waiting to hear that, sir! An extension would be the ideal scenario to add all those loose ends (most of them from the movies). The release of the last movie would change many things if you had oriented it towards the movies, but little given your fidelity to the book, almost exclusively.

Thranduil could be a Shadow follower, bearable by companions (like Black Breath)... That would be amusing!

Your idea of making a complete board game is way better than a trading card one. The current pool of your first draft is very accurate with the book, and as a board game it needs to be limited.

By the way, as you don't possess Decipher's rights, you should erase those codes at the bottom right corner. Your new cultures don't have it, but previous cultures as Shire, Dwarven and Gandalf do.

Smaug can't be play at site 9, only at site 7 and 8. The fellowship must be at a mountain site to be played, but in the case the fellowship make 7-9, he will stay on the board.
"If Smaug gets killed, remove him from the game". is a good point, but I will keep it simpler even if he is killed at site 7. Maximum 2 sentences on a card and I will consider: "Maneuver: Exert Smaug to discard a non-[Dwarven] follower or a non-[Dwarven] ally (except Bard)." The modeling of your ability is also good. 

Hmmmm.... I was thinking about this point and you are right, Smaug can't be played at site 9 as he needs a mountain. But there are some cards that can bring him back if he gets killed previously, and I can identify at least 2 scenarios: Troll Campfire can play any minion from discard, and site 8 Smaug's Den can play him from discard even if he was eventually played and killed at site 7.

Given that, the line "To play, the fellowship must be at a mountain site. If Smaug gets killed, remove him from the game" seems to be the best option to prevent his resurrection. You can shorten that line and still preserve your ideal of only 2 lines per card, just look at The Balrog, Flame of Udun: First line is "Damage +1. Fierce. To play, spot a Orc. Discard The Balrog if not underground" while the second explains his Shadow ability. The first line contains 2 brief sentences, so you would only need to abbreviate the text...

Current line:
"Damage +2. Fierce.
To play, the fellowship must be at a mountain site."
Flame of Udun (as a reference):
"Damage +1. Fierce. To play, spot a Orc. Discard The Balrog if not underground"

First proposal:
"Damage +2. Fierce. To play, the fellowship must be at a mountain site. If Smaug gets killed, remove him from the game."
Shortened proposal:
"Damage +2. Fierce. To play, current site must be a mountain. If Smaug dies, remove him from the game."

Second line:
Flame of Udun (reference again):
"Shadow: Exert The Balrog and remove to play a Orc from your discard pile."
Smaug (current proposal):
"Maneuver: Exert Smaug to discard a non- follower or a non- ally (except Bard)."
Smaug (shortened proposal):
"Maneuver: Exert Smaug to discard a follower or ally (except a card or Bard)."


Site 9 Battle of the Five Armies might be a mountain as part of the battle happens in the slopes, or there might be an alternative site 9 called "Slopes of the Lonely Mountain" or so... Adding the "dead = removed" text, there wouldn't be a problem. Smaug might even be part of the Battle if he survives.

In a first version, I made Dwarven Axes and Dwarven Bracers, then I replaced them by 2 events to have all the events in one copy and to bring the total number of FP cards in the main deck to 30 cards.

We can replace some quantity of FP events in the main deck by general weapons:  hammers, bows, axes, spears. But which event have to be removed? The role of these 10 events is to take care of all kind of match-ups.

The followers can boost the companions, but maybe the cost of the aid of some followers is too heavy?
Maybe also stop the restriction to Thorin? But I don't want some prolonged maneuver phases due to a lot of followers.

As for the Events being replaced by Weapons: I think there are two events that might merge into one: Battle Fury can be absorbed by To Me! O My Kinsfolk! The latter looks as a battle cry, so it could have a direct battle use:
Battle Fury
Event - Skirmish
Make a Dwarf strength +3 (or +4 if he bears a follower).

To Me! O My Kinsfolk!
Event - Fellowship
Play a follower from your discard pile.

Merged version:
To Me! O My Kinsfolk!
Event (no specific phase here)
Fellowship: Play a follower from your discard pile.
Skirmish: Make a Dwarf strength +3 (or +4 if he bears a follower).

Just look at both card images, there's plenty of space! Even for a lore text.
That way, there would be an available slot for a generic weapon, and replaying a follower from discard would be a little more expensive than playing from hand (just like A Wizard Is Never Late)... The generic weapon might have different altenative images each with different hand weapons (axe, spear, sword, hammer) and be called "Weapon of Ered Luin", for Booster Pack (and amusement) purposes. And obviously have the exact same text. That would exclude ranged weapons (bows and Ori's slingshot), but would be a good achievement given the limited card pool...

A rough draft:
Weapon of Ered Luin
Possession - Hand Weapon
Bearer must be a Dwarf.
While bearer is at a mountain or battleground site, he is Damage +1.

As for the Followers: Those are very expensive, 4 require to exert a companion while the other 2 require adding a doubt. There are scarce resources to remove doubts and wounds, and both will naturally acumulate by Shadow player's craft and The Ring. None of them adds twilight or discards a or Free Peoples card from hand to be transferred, that is an alternative cost you might consider...

Orkish Marauder can prevent prolonged costless maneuver phases for the FP player, if the cost of spotting 4 followers remains.

Bifur, Bofur and Bombur shouldn't be bearable by only Thorin in my opinion, but be bearable by anyone (the Company is a brotherhood) AND require to either spot Thorin or pay something additional... "Aid X (and spot Thorin or Y)"; while X is the fixed cost you consider best, and Y is the additional one, which may be adding , discarding a card from hand, discarding 2 cards from hand, adding a doubt, exerting a companion, discarding 2 cards from the top of the deck... That way the honour link with Thorin remains and there's more freedom of use.

And big, fat Bombur should give Damage +1 to bearer. He's just too heavy to give only slaps to the faces of enemies...

There are 4 companions with an initial Damage+1 abilitiy. Moreover, Thorin is Damage+2 with Orcrist. If there is a lack of Damage+1, this will be fixed during playtest.

That's right, playtesting will tell...

Yes, Balin is really weak in strength, but he can recycle the suitable FP event of your match-up ("wise side") and Ori is a really good way to draw good event cards (maybe draw 3 cards rather than 2 cards?).
It's a good point, I will put him at the same level as his brother Dwalin: Cost 3 Strength 7 Vitality 3 but no Damage+1.

I like that change! He's old (no damage bonus) but can and WILL swing an axe with skill and great power! I was thinking about giving him strength 6 and recycling 2 cards instead of 1 with an exertion ("wiser"), but your idea is better. Both increments might be too much, I think.
As for Ori, it depends on the cost of transferring him. I'd replace his text with "When transferred, draw a card (or X cards if bearer is Balin)", while X is the chosen number...

I remove the Map now. In order to keep 30 cards in the FP side, starting with the Key seems great. But the Key needs a necessary ability for Bilbo. Maybe the ability of Bilbo to avoid Smaug ? And create different Bilbo (like different Gandalf I created) to bring different startings ?

The Key should be borne by Gandalf or a Dwarf, BUT give a special ability involving Bilbo.

Here's another rough draft:

Thror's Key, Heirloom
Possession - Key
+1 Strength
Bearer must be Gandalf or a Dwarf companion. Cannot be discarded by Shadow cards.
Response: If bearer is about to be killed or discarded, exert a companion to transfer this to another elegible bearer.
Skirmish: Exert Bilbo twice or add 3 doubts to cancel a skirmish involving bearer or Smaug. A minion in that skirmish may exert to prevent this (except Smaug).

That way Bilbo, Expert Burglar will have more space for another special ability... And you can also create other versions of Bilbo to provide diversity and gameplay.

I know, but I haven't the High-definition templates for and artifacts. I keep them possessions and could still be discarded by William.

The Arkenstone, and moreover The One Ring, shouldn't be discarded by a silly Troll, even if it's an intellectual gifted in respect to his race (according to Tolkien)...

By the way, The One Ring's ability is too expensive in my opinion, as it doesn't give strength unless Bilbo wears it. It should give +1 strength by bearing, and additional +1 by wearing... Or Bilbo should be resistance 10 instead (he was younger then).

Right, it will release soon ^^. But Thrain doesn't follow the company, maybe I can use the image of Thrain for a event. Thror's Door is also good, maybe to replace one of the sites 7: Dale or Erebor ? Site 8 has to be for Smaug (like site 5 FOTR for the Balrog).

I don't have the Extended Edition of The Desolation, but there is a pic of captive Thrain here:
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Thráin_II
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140921182515/lotr/images/a/af/Thrain_.png

Hmm, you're right, Thror's Door fits well as a site 7 and it's a good idea to have the site 8 always bringing the beast to the feast. Anyway, where does The Forges of Erebor fit here? Site 8 or 9? It's such an epic fight that happens there (in the movie) to let the place outside this card game! Thror's Door should be Site 7 then, but don't know what site 7 should be removed... Likely Dale as they don't tread there.

Allow me to suggest this:
The Forges of Erebor (Oh, there are so many wonderful pictures for this scene!)
Site 8. Shadow Number 11 (REALLY!)
"Mountain. Underground. Maneuver: Play (or make an opponent play) Smaug from a Shadow player's deck or discard pile, to heal each companion."

Maneuver action usable by BOTH the FP and the Shadow player. That way Smaug will always be played if it's possible (same as Smaug's Den), and can be (forced to be) played by the FP player to get some benefits from that (unless Shadow player plays him in Shadow phase)... The much higher Shadow cost is to compensate that benefit to dwarves...

If this is to end in fire, then we will all burn together!

You are probably right. I really want a strong crowd-control, 7 companions seems too big and with more than 4 followers the maneuver phase could be really long. There are many manners to take back the Shotgun Marauders. The only way for the FP player to do something is Battle of Azanulbizar and Lore of Imladris, but not enough if this minion comes back at every site. Maybe only vitality 3? And keep it non-unique.

Or exert companions/allies instead of wounding. Or make the FP player decide who gets wounded (like Orcs)...

Thank you a lot for your help, it's a pleasure to work on this game with you.

The pleasure is reciprocal.

EDIT: I wrote "big, fat Bofur" when I meant Bombur...

[-Enola-]

I was waiting to hear that, sir! An extension would be the ideal scenario to add all those loose ends (most of them from the movies). The release of the last movie would change many things if you had oriented it towards the movies, but little given your fidelity to the book, almost exclusively.

Yes, it could be many new cards, but we will probably work on this particular point after the 3rd movie. We try now to create a complete boardgame only with this limited card pool.

By the way, as you don't possess Decipher's rights, you should erase those codes at the bottom right corner. Your new cultures don't have it, but previous cultures as Shire, Dwarven and Gandalf do.

Yes, I know. I have to do this as soon as possible.

Hmmmm.... I was thinking about this point and you are right, Smaug can't be played at site 9 as he needs a mountain. But there are some cards that can bring him back if he gets killed previously, and I can identify at least 2 scenarios: Troll Campfire can play any minion from discard, and site 8 Smaug's Den can play him from discard even if he was eventually played and killed at site 7.

Given that, the line "To play, the fellowship must be at a mountain site. If Smaug gets killed, remove him from the game" seems to be the best option to prevent his resurrection. You can shorten that line and still preserve your ideal of only 2 lines per card, just look at The Balrog, Flame of Udun: First line is "Damage +1. Fierce. To play, spot a Orc. Discard The Balrog if not underground" while the second explains his Shadow ability. The first line contains 2 brief sentences, so you would only need to abbreviate the text...

Current line:
"Damage +2. Fierce.
To play, the fellowship must be at a mountain site."
Flame of Udun (as a reference):
"Damage +1. Fierce. To play, spot a Orc. Discard The Balrog if not underground"

First proposal:
"Damage +2. Fierce. To play, the fellowship must be at a mountain site. If Smaug gets killed, remove him from the game."
Shortened proposal:
"Damage +2. Fierce. To play, current site must be a mountain. If Smaug dies, remove him from the game."

Second line:
Flame of Udun (reference again):
"Shadow: Exert The Balrog and remove to play a Orc from your discard pile."
Smaug (current proposal):
"Maneuver: Exert Smaug to discard a non- follower or a non- ally (except Bard)."
Smaug (shortened proposal):
"Maneuver: Exert Smaug to discard a follower or ally (except a card or Bard)."

Perfect! I will take the shortest version with the same syntax as LOTR TCG. So (as for Freca "killed" more than "dies") :

Damage +2. Fierce. To play, the fellowship must be at a mountain site. If Smaug is killed, remove him from the game.
Maneuver: Exert Smaug to discard a follower or ally (except a card or Bard).

Site 9 Battle of the Five Armies might be a mountain as part of the battle happens in the slopes, or there might be an alternative site 9 called "Slopes of the Lonely Mountain" or so... Adding the "dead = removed" text, there wouldn't be a problem. Smaug might even be part of the Battle if he survives.

I prefer to keep Smaug out of the Battle of the Five Armies, even if he was not kill in a previous turn. The site 9 battle has too be epic, and not only one big minion. I don't know yet about all this point. It's possible I will eventually add "mountain" on the site 9.

We can create another site 9 "Slopes of the Lonely Mountain", but it will be more for the extension or by replacing one of the additional site ?

As for the Events being replaced by Weapons: I think there are two events that might merge into one: Battle Fury can be absorbed by To Me! O My Kinsfolk! The latter looks as a battle cry, so it could have a direct battle use:
Battle Fury
Event - Skirimish
Make a Dwarf strength +3 (or +4 if he bears a follower).

To Me! O My Kinsfolk!
Event - Fellowship
Play a follower from your discard pile.

Merged version:
To Me! O My Kinsfolk!
Event (no specific phase here)
Fellowship: Play a follower from your discard pile.
Skirimish: Make a Dwarf strength +3 (or +4 if he bears a follower).

Just look at both card images, there's plenty of space! Even for a lore text.

The phase of the events is not in the textbox but above the textbox. In LOTR TCG, since ROTK all events are made in this way and there are only these events with 2 phases: Still Far Ahead, One Good Turn Deserves Another, Well-traveled, Traveled Leader, Nimble Attack, Poisonous words. But it's the same action for both phases.

... The generic weapon might have different altenative images each with different hand weapons (axe, spear, sword, hammer) and be called "Weapon of Ered Luin", for Booster Pack (and amusement) purposes. And obviously have the exact same text. That would exclude ranged weapons (bows and Ori's slingshot), but would be a good achievement given the limited card pool...

A rough draft:
Weapon of Ered Luin
Possession - Hand Weapon
Bearer must be a Dwarf.
While bearer is at a mountain or battleground site, he is Damage +1.

Yes this will be great, and if we can find another slot, maybe include another kind of weapon ?
I prefer 0 or 2 generic weapons rather than one, otherwise the draws will be too random.

As for the Followers: Those are very expensive, 4 require to exert a companion while the other 2 require adding a doubt. There are scarce resources to remove doubts and wounds, and both will naturally acumulate by Shadow player's craft and The Ring. None of them adds twilight or discards a or Free Peoples card from hand to be transferred, that is an alternative cost you might consider...

Bifur, Bofur and Bombur shouldn't be bearable by only Thorin in my opinion, but be bearable by anyone (the Company is a brotherhood) AND require to either spot Thorin or pay something additional... "Aid X (and spot Thorin or Y)"; while X is the fixed cost you consider best, and Y is the additional one, which may be adding , discarding a card from hand, discarding 2 cards from hand, adding a doubt, exerting a companion, discarding 2 cards from the top of the deck... That way the honour link with Thorin remains and there's more freedom of use.

I think the addition of twilight cost is too easy for the FP player, except if it's a large amount of twilight like (3). But the mechanism of discarding card is nice  , I will add this to some followers. And also, if you have other idea of aid cost ? ^^ Like exerting an ally twice ?

I will stop the restriction on Thorin.

And big, fat Bofur should give Damage +1 to bearer. He's just too heavy to give only slaps to the faces of enemies...

You're right! I will change this. With only Thorin, it wasn't so helpful.

I like that change! He's old (no damage bonus) but can and WILL swing an axe with skill and great power! I was thinking about giving him strength 6 and recycling 2 cards instead of 1 with an exertion ("wiser"), but your idea is better. Both increments might be too much, I think.
As for Ori, it depends on the cost of transferring him. I'd replace his text with "When transferred, draw a card (or X cards if bearer is Balin)", while X is the chosen number...

Thank you, yes I think it's ok now, and he is similar as hiw brother. I will think about your point on Ori.

The Key should be borne by Gandalf or a Dwarf, BUT give a special ability involving Bilbo.

Here's another rough draft:

Thror's Key, Heirloom
Possession - Key
+1 Strength
Bearer must be Gandalf or a Dwarf companion. Cannot be discarded by Shadow cards.
Response: If bearer is about to be killed or discarded, exert a companion to transfer this to another elegible bearer.
Skirimish: Exert Bilbo twice or add 3 doubts to cancel a skirimish involving bearer or Smaug. A minion in that skirimish may exert to prevent this (except Smaug).

That way Bilbo, Expert Burglar will have more space for another special ability... And you can also create other versions of Bilbo to provide diversity and gameplay.

Gandalf is discarded at site 5, it's difficult to play it, or by transferring the key to another Dwarf when Gandalf leaves play ?

But I will go simpler on this point. We can consider it for the extension rather for the complete boardgame.

The Arkenstone, and moreover The One Ring, shouldn't be discarded by a silly Troll, even if it's an intellectual gifted in respect to his race (according to Tolkien)...

By the way, The One Ring's ability is too expensive in my opinion, as it doesn't give strength unless Bilbo wears it. It should give +1 strength by bearing, and additional +1 by wearing... Or Bilbo should be resistance 10 instead (he was younger then).

Yes, right . But I have to make artifact templates, I will see this point.

I prefer to keep many references on LOTR TCG with the same skills for all the characters. The only corruption deck is Gollum, and we have to test it to see if 8 is too low.

The Ring is the same as ATAR with less vitality : in case Gollum comes back often, Bilbo has to wear the Ring. But we can do a much simpler version of the Ring.

I don't have the Extended Edition of The Desolation, but there is a pic of captive Thrain here:
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Thráin_II
http://img4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20140921182515/lotr/images/a/af/Thrain_.png

Hmm, you're right, Thror's Door fits well as a site 7 and it's a good idea to have the site 8 always bringing the beast to the feast. Anyway, where does The Forges of Erebor fit here? Site 8 or 9? It's such an epic fight that happens there (in the movie) to let the place outside this card game! Thror's Door should be Site 7 then, but don't know what site 7 should be removed... Likely Dale as they don't tread there.

Allow me to suggest this:
The Forges of Erebor (Oh, there are so many wonderful pictures for this scene!)
Site 8. Shadow Number 11 (REALLY!)
"Mountain. Underground. Maneuver: Play (or make an opponent play) Smaug from a Shadow player's deck or discard pile, to heal each companion."

Maneuver action usable by BOTH the FP and the Shadow player. That way Smaug will always be played if it's possible (same as Smaug's Den), and can be (forced to be) played by the FP player to get some benefits from that (unless Shadow player plays him in Shadow phase)... The much higher Shadow cost is to compensate that benefit to dwarves...

If this is to end in fire, then we will all burn together!

Ok for Dale, I will replace it by Thror's Door. But I still like the picture on Dale site ^^.

Site 8 is great! And your site is awesome, we will see during playtest if it's well balanced. But maybe for the extension? Or by replacing one of the additionnal site?

Or exert companions/allies instead of wounding. Or make the FP player decide who gets wounded (like Orcs)...

For the Orkish Marauder, I think with 3 vitality it's more soft but still impressive to avoid big fellowship.

[dmaz]

Hi!

So I tried printing one out on my printer here to start play testing, but my printer is pretty cheap (mostly good for black and white documents only), so for me to be satisfied I'm going to take the files to a local place and have them print it in high quality on some nice stock

A couple questions before I do this.

I noticed that there have been several updates since your original posting. Are all of these updates applied to the original dropbox links as follows?

https://www.dropbox.com/s/ly7dsozr24d9avl/Boosters_4_players.pdf?dl=0
https://www.dropbox.com/s/w07lu5eb31di9xn/Main_deck.pdf?dl=0

Also, when I printed them out in standard 100% format on a sheet of A4 paper, they came out a little smaller than the original cards. Is there a certain percentage larger they need to be printed at?

Lastyly, do you plan on any more updates in the very near future? That way I can wait for at least that update before getting them printed out professionally

Thanks again!

[Durin's Heir]

Yes, it could be many new cards, but we will probably work on this particular point after the 3rd movie. We try now to create a complete boardgame only with this limited card pool.

It will be ok after the 3rd Movie, prior to that too much speculative work will end up in the garbage can (inaccurances). I think the Expansion Set should be another Booster Deck, thus in Expanded games players should build a deck from a Main Deck, the First Booster Deck and a Second Booster deck... Just an idea.

Perfect! I will take the shortest version with the same syntax as LOTR TCG. So (as for Freca "killed" more than "dies") :

Damage +2. Fierce. To play, the fellowship must be at a mountain site. If Smaug is killed, remove him from the game.
Maneuver: Exert Smaug to discard a follower or ally (except a card or Bard).

Great! Your point with Freca is a good one; a little room gets freed. I was thinking about an even shorter version for the first line, but don't know if it accords with Decipher's syntax...

Current version:
Damage +2. Fierce. To play, the fellowship must be at a mountain site. If Smaug is killed, remove him from the game.
New proposal:
Damage +2. Fierce. May only be played at a mountain site. If Smaug is killed, remove him from the game.

This would only matter if there's no room on the card, or if the small size of the text distorts its beauty...

I prefer to keep Smaug out of the Battle of the Five Armies, even if he was not kill in a previous turn. The site 9 battle has too be epic, and not only one big minion. I don't know yet about all this point. It's possible I will eventually add "mountain" on the site 9.

We can create another site 9 "Slopes of the Lonely Mountain", but it will be more for the extension or by replacing one of the additional site ?

You can add mountain to site 9 Battle of the Five Armies by adding "Battleground. Mountain. Shadow: Remove 2 doubts to play a minion from your discard pile (except Smaug)". Yes, Slopes of the Lonely Mountain should appear in an extension pack instead, as there aren't too many card slots in the current set...

The phase of the events is not in the textbox but above the textbox. In LOTR TCG, since ROTK all events are made in this way and there are only these events with 2 phases: Still Far Ahead, One Good Turn Deserves Another, Well-traveled, Traveled Leader, Nimble Attack, Poisonous words. But it's the same action for both phases.

There is already an event with different texts for different phases: Eye of Barad-Dur. Decipher made it!

The inclusion of "phase" above the textbox for events, and "support area" too for most conditions and some possessions/artifacts was introduced to allow more room for the gametext. Also, the inclusion of new rules and gameplay dynamics required more use of textbox: site controlling, card stacking, tokens, threats, initiative, enduring... none of them are present here.

The merged version I posted has enough space for both phase actions and even for the lore text of the original "To Me! O My Kinsfolk!". Just look at both card images, they fit without text abbreviation/size reduction.
You can include both phases in the bar above the textbox (separated by a "/"), but won't provide the effect for what Decipher planned that change. And it won't need it either.

Weapon of Ered Luin
Possession - Hand Weapon
Bearer must be a Dwarf.
While bearer is at a mountain or battleground site, he is Damage +1.

Yes this will be great, and if we can find another slot, maybe include another kind of weapon ?
I prefer 0 or 2 generic weapons rather than one, otherwise the draws will be too random.

Your point is absolutely right, only 1 weapon would give little chances of getting it, and therefore too much advantage to the player who gets it. The second one can be a hand weapon bearable by Men or Dwarves, or even the Deathless itself (bearable by any Dwarf companion, giving more benefits if bearer is Thorin or Balin)...

The ranged weapons (Ori's Slingshot and the bows) would have to find room at the Expansion Set/Pack...

I think the addition of twilight cost is too easy for the FP player, except if it's a large amount of twilight like (3). But the mechanism of discarding card is nice  , I will add this to some followers. And also, if you have other idea of aid cost ? ^^ Like exerting an ally twice ?

I will stop the restriction on Thorin.

That's good, I believe the restriction to Thorin would render almost useless those followers, as most of the times Thorin would bring down whatever he is skirmishing without any help. The link between those followers and Thorin may remain: Aid X (and either spot Thorin or Y), as explained in the previous post... X is the fixed cost, Y the cost of not spotting Thorin.

Your idea of exerting an ally twice seems good, except it should be a single exertion. Only Elrond can heal himself, there are no multiple copies of allies to heal by discarding, and exerting allies is a heavy cost (except for Radagast and Elrond again). By the way, The Master can only use his skill once, unlike Ottar with Elrond, LoR. If you think he should heal himself, add any of the following options: "At the start of each turn, heal The Master" or "At the start of each turn, heal each ally whose home site is 6 (except Bard)". You can increase his vitality to 3 too...

Your other idea, adding or more, is very good too, seems perfect for big, fat Bombur.

My ideas for aid costs are:
- Discard a card from hand. (This one will limit the power of The Arkenstone, a considerable cost)
- Discard a card from hand. (If the follower is bound to Gandalf/Esgaroth/Eagles/Beorn/Breelanders)
- Discard 2 cards from hand.
- Discard 2 cards from the top of your deck.
- Heal a minion. (Not likely to be suitable)
- Transfer/discard/return to hand a Free Peoples possession. (Return and Transfer might be very amusing!)

And big, fat Bofur should give Damage +1 to bearer. He's just too heavy to give only slaps to the faces of enemies...

I meant Bombur really, and I'm glad you liked that idea. He might give +2 strength, Damage +1 to Gandalf or even Bilbo...

Thank you, yes I think it's ok now, and he is similar as hiw brother. I will think about your point on Ori.

Ori should be a chronicler with or without Balin, except with Balin he should have better material to register...

Gandalf is discarded at site 5, it's difficult to play it, or by transferring the key to another Dwarf when Gandalf leaves play ?

But I will go simpler on this point. We can consider it for the extension rather for the complete boardgame.

That's the idea, the Response ability is to protect the Key amongst the Company. "Response: If bearer is about to be killed or discarded, exert a companion to transfer this to another elegible bearer".
According to Tolkien, first bearer was Thror, second was Thrain II, third was Gandalf (at Dol Guldur, 91 years prior to Thorin's Quest, when Thrain passed away) and fourth was Thorin. The possible starting fellowships are either Gandalf alone, Thorin alone, 2 Dwarves or Gandalf and 3 Dwarves. Thus it should be bearable at the starting fellowship...

It might give the ability to play the fellowship's next site... by means of a heavy cost, of course. Maybe discarding it.

You are right, it should be a card for the Expansion. And I think it shouldn't even be a possession, but the "Key card" as The One Ring is just "The Ring", without class, and is played at start of the game with the ringbearer. Some blogs or forum threads (can't remember) talk about the key-bearer, just as the ringbearer, and doubts are put on the keybearer instead of Bilbo... Discussion for the Expansion set anyway.

I prefer to keep many references on LOTR TCG with the same skills for all the characters. The only corruption deck is Gollum, and we have to test it to see if 8 is too low.

The Ring is the same as ATAR with less vitality : in case Gollum comes back often, Bilbo has to wear the Ring. But we can do a much simpler version of the Ring.

The only corruption culture is Gollum, yes, but many FP cards add doubts, they can just pile up until they reach 8 and Bilbo would flee even if he doesn't face Gollum. If Bilbo faces Gollum, he can use The Ring to gain +2 strength and survive, but Gollum gains +1 strength that way and can build 2 more doubts if he wins that skirmish (1 for his text, 1 for wound), AND a 3rd if Underground Lake is in play. 4 in a single fight; Underground Lake can be discarded to add 2 doubts more... 6 in a single site.

The One Ring should either give better strength attributes, or have a gametext like The Ruling Ring. And would be useful to give it a subtitle, to make an alternative version in the Expansion.

Ok for Dale, I will replace it by Thror's Door. But I still like the picture on Dale site ^^.

Site 8 is great! And your site is awesome, we will see during playtest if it's well balanced. But maybe for the extension? Or by replacing one of the additionnal site?

Dale might be included in the Expansion Set. It's a very good picture! The text is very good too, it looks like many cards in the Expansion will be very powerful...

The idea of the Forges of Erebor was born when writing about the role of site 8. "Is there another possible way of playing Smaug from discard/draw deck with Site 8's text?!" Head started to ache, fortunately inspiration came to rescue...
It's a site meant to be epic, representing an epic challenge. There will be need for playtesting to fit the correct Shadow number, in bare theory I think 11 can be a good cost; can be even higher. To give it full strength it should be accompained by a FP card that plays the fellowship's next site, like Speak Friend and Enter or Pathfinder in FotR... or Thror's Map. Maybe Thror's Key/Key of Erebor should allow to play/replace the next site. That is a matter for the Expansion Set anyway...

I would like to include it in the First Set, as that site has such a strong epic feeling in my opinion. But don't know what site should be excluded. Great Goblin's Cavern seems to me the less useful, because culture just can't rely on a site for that whole twilight gameplay. Orkish Footman and Goblin Swarms/Hatred Rekindled should be enough. In my opinion Site 4 should always bring the One Ring, the way Site 8 should always bring Smaug to the party...

And there are only 2 cards to be replayed: Goblin Scimitar and Troll Knife, while FotR Block has 14: 6 for , 3 for , 3 for and 2 for .

Sites 6 Esgaroth and Lake Town should be both a river. Or lake, but that site keyword doesn't exist in LOTR TCG; and every lake must and does have a river. Sites 7 Dale and Erebor too should be rivers.

For the Orkish Marauder, I think with 3 vitality it's more soft but still impressive to avoid big fellowship.

That looks great, it has my vote! But I think the final vote will be in playtesting's hand...

[-Enola-]

Hello dmaz & Durin's Heir,

dmaz: Yes, all the pdf images are currently updated. I also printed 3 main decks, the card size is normallly the same size as LOTR TCG. But if it's a little bit smaller, you can put it easily inside card sleeves .
I will playtest with 3 other members of my LOTR TCG group thursday 11/13. So all the major improvements will be done at this time.

Durin's Heir: Sorry but I will be too busy today, I'll answer all your proposals tomorrow or tonight . Thanks a lot.

[Durin's Heir]

I really like the idea of using Followers for the purpose of Companions, by-passing that way problems like the Rule of 9, overcrowding and the need of big, fast drawing builds to play and support those 13 Dwarves in the same deck. Pretty clever!

Anyway, since my first post in this thread I've had an almost insane idea between hands, to adapt these LOTR TCG rules to a Company of 13 Dwarves + Burglar + Wizard, each as a single companion in the fellowship, without generating big imbalances... It would be only an option for an Expansion of this Hobbit Draft Game, as the cards in the First Set just can't support that.


It's not about just removing the Rule of 9, which would generate significative distortions, but replacing it with a new rule to compensate those distortions. It would require to limit anyway the maximum of companions, by means of 1 of these 2 scenarios:
1) There wouldn't be any character as a possible companion, except for Gandalf and The Company of 14; that way The Rule of 9 would be just eliminated. No replacement.
2) If there are some characters from outside Thorin's Company as new companions (Legolas, Tauriel, Bard, Dain II...), there should be a new Rule of N replacing the old Rule of 9 (to "limit the maximum number of companions at both the fellowship and the dead pile to N", N being a big number like 13, 14 or 15)...

In both scenarios there would be a fixed limit to companions. Then, a new rule would be created: the Rule of 5: "Each time the fellowship moves, for each companion in the fellowship or the dead pile over 5, each Shadow player may take a card from his/her discard pile and put it at the bottom of the draw deck, then draw a card".

That means, if there are 8 companions, at Shadow phase each Shadow player would have 11 cards at hand (9 comps... 12 cards; 13 comps... 16 cards), and those extra cards wouldn't punish small Shadow deck builds, as the discard pile would feed the draw deck preventing the emptying; I know Draft Games don't have the option of building (clever) decks of 40/40 cards or more, so the drawing effect should help instead of punish small decks. At every site, a large Company would be countered by a large horde of enemies... You wanted to have hordes at site 9:

"The Site 9 battle has to be epic, and not only one big minion."

To reap more gameplay benefits from that eventual rule introduction, we can take these guidelines for the designing of new cards (those can be followed even without the "Rule of 5"):

1.- Having ways of playing many Dwarves at the start of the game, or at the first part of it: sites, a version of A Wizard is Never Late, twilight reduction effects appliable (and cumulative) at starting fellowship, perdurable drawing mechanisms like Book of Mazarbul or The Grey Pilgrim... In order to allow the Company to be broad with small decks and 1 copy of each Dwarf.
2.- No matter how big the Company is, the Shadow has always 2 (or 3) fixed goals: killing/corrupting Bilbo and killing Thorin (and killing/discarding Gandy too). That way, many Shadow cards can be designed to assign minions directly to Bilbo, Thorin or Gandalf, possibly with expensive costs to prevent that assignment; basically the same as you did with Orkish Sneak and Threatening Warg. Or special abilities, events, followers and bearable conditions to punish those key characters. A version of Thranduil might be a Shadow follower transferrable to companions, giving more punishment if bearer is Thorin...
3.- Provide enhancement to card cost/effect if there are X or more companions: not that old crowd control of Shotgun Enquea or Southron Commander, but instead many minions might say "If you can spot 7 companions", "this minion's twilight cost is -1", or "you may draw a card", or "this minion is strength +3", or "Damage +1" or so (to bulk up minions or swarming). And so with cards at support area, also with the "each time the fellowship moves" mechanic. Even FP cards might provide benefits from high companion numbers, to make it an interesting option and turn it into a gamble...
4.- To have no FP mechanism to discard (or return to hand) companions as a cost or an effect, as that possibility would turn the fellowship into a circus of wound soaking like Pippin, WoBaS...

That's all. I said it was almost insane, and maybe I was wrong with the word "almost"...


Whatever road is taken, I would love to see some Dwarf companions from the First Set being turned into Followers in the Expansion/Second Set... not Thorin obviously, but folks like Nori, Gloin and Thorin's nephews. And those previous dwarven Followers becoming Companions, to give more diversity. Even a version of Gandalf might be a Follower, as he supports them but doesn't join them as a permanent member.

Hope you all enjoyed this circus of speech.

[Lauben]

Hi folks,

just want to let you know that there others in this wide world interested in a hobbit game similar to lotr tcg!!!
I'm from Germany and together with my brother and a good friend we still play sometimes on gemp or with our physical fotr and ttt block cards.

When the first Hobbit movie came out, we started to develop our own ideas and made a lot of card lists ect but never quite finished it!

We will surely download your set and play test it! Thank you for the great work on these!! Maybe we can use your set as a basis for our ideas and combine them? That would be great... of course i will post some of our cards here if you want! Or we could help expand your game.

We would really like to have a similar game to lotr tcg with a wide card pool and some more cultures (i think of course of some white council and some woodelves stuff.. also we wanted to divide shadow into a "gundabad, a misty mountains and a dol guldur/necromancer culture much like the original uruk, moria and sauron)

Again, really enyojed your cards!
Greetings from Germany,
Lauben

P.S. i hope my english is at least understandable..

[-Enola-]

To sum up, the Extension set (Second Booster deck) will include:
- Slopes of the Lonely Mountain
- Dale (or Entrance of Erebor)
- Forges of Erebor
- Thranduil (Shadow as follower or condition ?) + Elves
- White Council
- Sauron/Necromancer
- and weapons
- Ruling Ring
- Key of Erebor

New proposal:
Damage +2. Fierce. May only be played at a mountain site. If Smaug is killed, remove him from the game.

Unfortunately, it's not the same syntax as LOTR TCG, I will keep the previous one.

You can add mountain to site 9 Battle of the Five Armies by adding "Battleground. Mountain. Shadow: Remove 2 doubts to play a minion from your discard pile (except Smaug)".

You are right, I have done it in a previous version, but I will now change my version for your version. Thank you.

There is already an event with different texts for different phases: Eye of Barad-Dur. Decipher made it!

The inclusion of "phase" above the textbox for events, and "support area" too for most conditions and some possessions/artifacts was introduced to allow more room for the gametext. Also, the inclusion of new rules and gameplay dynamics required more use of textbox: site controlling, card stacking, tokens, threats, initiative, enduring... none of them are present here.

The merged version I posted has enough space for both phase actions and even for the lore text of the original "To Me! O My Kinsfolk!". Just look at both card images, they fit without text abbreviation/size reduction.
You can include both phases in the bar above the textbox (separated by a "/"), but won't provide the effect for what Decipher planned that change. And it won't need it either.

Your point is absolutely right, only 1 weapon would give little chances of getting it, and therefore too much advantage to the player who gets it. The second one can be a hand weapon bearable by Men or Dwarves, or even the Deathless itself (bearable by any Dwarf companion, giving more benefits if bearer is Thorin or Balin)...

The ranged weapons (Ori's Slingshot and the bows) would have to find room at the Expansion Set/Pack...

Yeah I know and also: We must have it. Since I made all cards in this way, I will keep the events unchanged.
I think we have to make simple but interesting cards in order to be playable by many players.
We will put all the and weapons in the extension set.

That's good, I believe the restriction to Thorin would render almost useless those followers, as most of the times Thorin would bring down whatever he is skirimishing without any help. The link between those followers and Thorin may remain: Aid X (and either spot Thorin or Y), as explained in the previous post... X is the fixed cost, Y the cost of not spotting Thorin.

Your idea of exerting an ally twice seems good, except it should be a single exertion. Only Elrond can heal himself, there are no multiple copies of allies to heal by discarding, and exerting allies is a heavy cost (except for Radagast and Elrond again). By the way, The Master can only use his skill once, unlike Ottar with Elrond, LoR. If you think he should heal himself, add any of the following options: "At the start of each turn, heal The Master" or "At the start of each turn, heal each ally whose home site is 6 (except Bard)". You can increase his vitality to 3 too...

Your other idea, adding or more, is very good too, seems perfect for big, fat Bombur.

My ideas for aid costs are:
- Discard a card from hand. (This one will limit the power of The Arkenstone, a considerable cost)
- Discard a card from hand. (If the follower is bound to Gandalf/Esgaroth/Eagles/Beorn/Breelanders)
- Discard 2 cards from hand.
- Discard 2 cards from the top of your deck.
- Heal a minion. (Not likely to be suitable)
- Transfer/discard/return to hand a Free Peoples possession. (Return and Transfer might be very amusing!)

The Elrond+Ottar combo in FOTR block is too powerful, so we can only use The Master once.

Thanks a lot. I change most of the followers during my update today.

That's the idea, the Response ability is to protect the Key amongst the Company. "Response: If bearer is about to be killed or discarded, exert a companion to transfer this to another elegible bearer".
According to Tolkien, first bearer was Thror, second was Thrain II, third was Gandalf (at Dol Guldur, 91 years prior to Thorin's Quest, when Thrain passed away) and fourth was Thorin. The possible starting fellowships are either Gandalf alone, Thorin alone, 2 Dwarves or Gandalf and 3 Dwarves. Thus it should be bearable at the starting fellowship...

It might give the ability to play the fellowship's next site... by means of a heavy cost, of course. Maybe discarding it.

You are right, it should be a card for the Expansion. And I think it shouldn't even be a possession, but the "Key card" as The One Ring is just "The Ring", without class, and is played at start of the game with the ringbearer. Some blogs or forum threads (can't remember) talk about the key-bearer, just as the ringbearer, and doubts are put on the keybearer instead of Bilbo... Discussion for the Expansion set anyway.

We will add this in the extension set. But it's a great idea.

The only corruption culture is Gollum, yes, but many FP cards add doubts, they can just pile up until they reach 8 and Biblo would flee even if he doesn't face Gollum. If Bilbo faces Gollum, he can use The Ring to gain +2 strength and survive, but Gollum gains +1 strength that way and can build 2 more doubts if he wins that skirimish (1 for his text, 1 for wound), AND a 3rd if Underground Lake is in play. 4 in a single fight; Underground Lake can be discarded to add 2 doubts more... 6 in a single site.

We will see this during playtest, but it's the only way a Gollum corruption can win. It must have a good corruption engine.

Dale might be included in the Expansion Set. It's a very good picture! The text is very good too, it looks like many cards in the Expansion will be very powerful...

The idea of the Forges of Erebor was born when writing about the role of site 8. "Is there another possible way of playing Smaug from discard/draw deck with Site 8's text?!" Head started to ache, fortunately inspiration came to rescue...
It's a site meant to be epic, representing an epic challenge. There will be need for playtesting to fit the correct Shadow number, in bare theory I think 11 can be a good cost; can be even higher. To give it full strength it should be accompained by a FP card that plays the fellowship's next site, like Speak Friend and Enter or Pathfinder in FotR... or Thror's Map. Maybe Thror's Key/Key of Erebor should allow to play/replace the next site. That is a matter for the Expansion Set anyway...

I would like to include it in the First Set, as that site has such a strong epic feeling in my opinion. But don't know what site should be excluded. Great Goblin's Cavern seems to me the less useful, because culture just can't rely on a site for that whole twilight gameplay. Orkish Footman and Goblin Swarms/Hatred Rekindled should be enough. In my opinion Site 4 should always bring the One Ring, the way Site 8 should always bring Smaug to the party...

And there are only 2 cards to be replayed: Goblin Scimitar and Troll Knife, while FotR Block has 14: 6 for , 3 for , 3 for and 2 for .

I think site 4 Great Goblin's Cavern could be good for many Shadows (except Spiders, but they have the site 5) : weapons for and Troll, no Ring for Gollum, weapons for Wargs if they splash minion to play scimitar.

Sites 6 Esgaroth and Lake Town should be both a river. Or lake, but that site keyword doesn't exist in LOTR TCG; and every lake must and does have a river. Sites 7 Dale and Erebor too should be rivers.

Ok I will change this.

[-Enola-]

About the rule of 9. I think your idea is great, but since I keep all the rules coming from LOTR TCG, I will keep this one too. It will need to many playtests to fix this .

I'm waiting for all the players reports after our playtest, thursday evening. I'll let you know.

[-Enola-]

We will surely download your set and play test it! Thank you for the great work on these!! Maybe we can use your set as a basis for our ideas and combine them? That would be great... of course i will post some of our cards here if you want! Or we could help expand your game.

Thank you Lauben, we are testing the card game now. You can use the card with the LOTR TCG cards but it's not the point of the game.

We would really like to have a similar game to lotr tcg with a wide card pool and some more cultures (i think of course of some white council and some woodelves stuff.. also we wanted to divide shadow into a "gundabad, a misty mountains and a dol guldur/necromancer culture much like the original uruk, moria and sauron)

Sure, we can include all these cards in a Extension Set. I just first want to balance the game with the cards already made.

P.S. i hope my english is at least understandable..

No problem, mine is bad too .

[-Enola-]

Updates 12/11/14 http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

• Thorin, Oakenshield
When Thorin is in your starting fellowship, his twilight cost is -2. (better with Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves)

• Bifur, • Bofur and • Bombur   
Not restricted only to Thorin. Bombur gives also damage+1.

• Óin, • Ori and • Gwaihir   
Aid cost: discard a suitable culture card from hand. Ori draws now 3 cards with Balin.

[Cw0rk]

I like the idea of Thranduil as a shadow follower.

[Durin's Heir]

I like the idea of Thranduil as a shadow follower.

To sum up, the Extension set (Second Booster deck) will include:
- Thranduil (Shadow as follower or condition ?) + Elves

Thanks for your reception. Here is an idea of what could look like a Shadow follower version of Thranduil...

•Thranduil, Elvenking (Shadow Card)
Follower - Elf
Strength -3
Aid - Heal bearer or Thorin. Bearer must be a Dwarf.
If you can spot Smaug or bearer wins a skirmish, discard Thranduil.
Bearer may only be assigned to skirmish by the Free Peoples player and each time he or she does, add a doubt.
"You have my word. One King to another."


The text is a little long... The idea is to nullify a fighter, or weaken him and make expensive his participation (strong against Thorin and Dwalin). Threatening Warg might reap too much benefits from this by assigning its rider to a weakened Thorin (and Thranduil was not in service nor coordination with Sauron), thus the assignment limitation. That exclusion of Shadow assignments to bearer, and the healing aid cost, are to represent the "protective" effect of being captive in Thranduil's dungeons...

The healing of bearer or Thorin makes an unwounded dwarf may not be captured by the Elvenking. And Thorin responds for all in his Company.

Other possibility (instead of that doubt-assignment idea) may be to discard bearer's possessions, or to nullify their strength/damage bonuses ("Bearer does not gain bonuses from possessions"). That role may be given to Legolas (Shadow follower), as he seized Orcrist to Thorin. Legolas indeed uses Orcrist in battle at Esgaroth...


Other Shadow followers can be Bill Ferny Sr. and Squint (the bald man at The Prancing Pony), Alfrid Lickspittle and Braga. Here's a list of characters (in the movies):

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Category:The Hobbit: An Unexpected Journey Characters
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Category:The Hobbit: The Desolation of Smaug Characters
http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Category:The Hobbit: The Battle of the Five Armies Characters

Elves are foes and friends during the book/movies, thus their culture may work as does in LOTR: Shadow and Free Peoples cards. While some characters as Legolas and Thranduil might participate in both sides, others should be exclusively FP: Tauriel, Elrond (and Rivendell Elves) and Galadriel always collaborate. And unwittingly a drunk Galion...

To differenciate Shadow cards from FP cards, Shadow ones use a diamond instead of a circle as marker of Twilight Cost at upper left corner.

[Durin's Heir]

About the rule of 9. I think your idea is great, but since I keep all the rules coming from LOTR TCG, I will keep this one too. It will need to many playtests to fix this .

I'm waiting for all the players reports after our playtest, thursday evening. I'll let you know.

That's alright. I said it was an insane idea, and I'm glad you liked it. But that sort of ideas work better in a Constructed TCG environment, where big and brainy decks may be assembled at the individual's own taste and crazy strategies, instead of a Draft Game with a limited and random card pool.
If anyone else wants to pick that Rule of 5 and use it in his/her own Hobbit or LOTR dream-card game, definitively I wouldn't oppose... 

The Elrond+Ottar combo in FOTR block is too powerful, so we can only use The Master once.

Thanks a lot. I change most of the followers during my update today.

Those changes look nice! I like Thorin's new text, it's more affordable now. The aid cost of Gwaihir, Óin and Ori makes them able to cycle. A wise player will transfer Ori first...

As for The Master, the combo of Elrond, LoR + Ottar is overpowered since each turn they draw from 1 to 4 cards by the cost of just sitting there. The Master shouldn't be that way, you are right. What do you think about giving him a cost for his healing? Remember it's a card from Booster deck, something similar to a Rare card in a TCG, and not just a common one like ARfM...

•The Master
Ally - Man - Site 6
Fellowship: Exert The Master to discard up to 3 cards from hand and draw an equal number of cards.
Fellowship: Add a doubt to heal an ally whose home site is 6 (except Bard).

There it is a suggestion: cycling cards by paying doubts. The underlined text can be changed to "The Master" or "a Man (except Bard)" if there aren't more Site 6 Allies, or to shorten the card's text.

To sum up, the Extension set (Second Booster deck) will include:
- Slopes of the Lonely Mountain
- Dale (or Entrance of Erebor)
- Forges of Erebor
- Thranduil (Shadow as follower or condition ?) + Elves
- White Council
- Sauron/Necromancer
- and weapons
- Ruling Ring
- Key of Erebor

There are other things we can add:

- Wargs as minions (and support area cards to play Warg minions when a Warg mount gets discarded from play...)
- Stone Giants.
- Fortifications.
- Barney Butterbur and good Breelanders; Bill Ferny Sr. and bad ones...
- Alternative versions of key characters (Thorin, Bilbo, Azog, maybe Smaug and Elrond...)
- Site manipulation cards for Gandalf ("Where are you leading us?") and Dwarves (Thror's Map and The Key)
- More sites, as the Caves of the High Pass (where they were caught)...
- More Eagles. And the Birds of Yore...
- Riddle and Stealth events/conditions for Bilbo and Gollum.
- Thror and his Ring of Power (as tale events/conditions, not character/item).
- More tale cards, and dynamics with that keyword.
- Thrain II (I saw the Extended Edition, actually Thrain isn't captive and joins the plot at some point).
- Items, lots of them: The Black Arrow, Mithril-Coat, Azog's Warg and Mace, The Deathless and the Oakenshield for Thorin, Forging or War Hammers...

An alternative Bilbo may pay a cost at sites 7 and onwards to play possessions from draw deck/discard pile (to RECOVER the lost Arkenstone)...


That Warg support card I mean should be like this:

Drink Their Blood! [Gundabad]
Condition - Support Area
Each time a [Gundabad] Mount with twilight cost X is discarded from play, you may play a [Gundabad] Warg from hand or discard pile; it's twilight cost is -X.

Each Warg minion should be fierce. You killed the rider but not yet the mount! It might have a cost like "remove a doubt to..." or "discard a Shadow card from hand to..." if it ends up being overpowered. As it is by now, it may be combined with Goblin Swarms. Here's another one:

The Scent of Fear [Gundabad]
Condition - Support Area
Shadow: Discard a [Gundabad] minion from hand to play a [Gundabad] Mount from your discard pile.


There's an additional point... If Legolas or Thranduil end up as allies/companions, since Legolas wieldes the Orcrist at Esgaroth after seizing it, just maybe, it should be an weapon instead of , bearable by Thorin or an Elf.

(In respect of Smaug's gametext) Unfortunately, it's not the same syntax as LOTR TCG, I will keep the previous one.

That's fine. It would have mattered only if there was a lack of space.

(In respect of mountain keyword and Site 9) You are right, I have done it in a previous version, but I will now change my version for your version. Thank you.

... (In respect of river keyword and Sites 6 and 7) Ok I will change this.

Yeah I know and also: We must have it. Since I made all cards in this way, I will keep the events unchanged.
I think we have to make simple but interesting cards in order to be playable by many players.
We will put all the and weapons in the extension set.

Those events look good, covering each Shadow tactic as you said. Minions will be stronger with the Expansion, thus then there will be a bigger need of weapons and tricks...

As for the weapons, in the book they travelled unarmed most of the time... Here at least they may rely on followers (teamwork!) or powerful events like Take Up Arms or Battle Fury (more teamwork). It should be fine as it is.

Maybe some damage bonus would not be unnecesary (Wargriders, Trolls and Smaug have huge vitality and strength). The Arkernstone might say "Skirmish: Discard a card from hand to make a Dwarf strength +2 or Damage +1". Or "... hand to make a Dwarf strength +2 or Damage +1 (or strenght +2 AND Damage +1 if it's a tale)" to give use of tale keyword (O My Kinsfolk!, Battle of Azanulbizar and Ancestral Knowledge might be tales; The Arkenstone itself too).

And Beorn seems like an orc-killer, he could give Damage +1; besides, his vitality addition looks great but goes away at the end of the turn: if bearer is exhausted and Elrond doesn't heal him, he'll be killed (therefore, most of the times will just add +2 strength). Anyway, I'm not saying that Vitality addition should be removed.

(In respect of The Key) We will add this in the extension set. But it's a great idea.

There are too many options here, we must work them prior to decide the definitive one. But at least it's clear it will be a starting card as Bilbo, and it will be preserved inside the Company... Here's a short article.

http://lotr.wikia.com/wiki/Key_to_the_Side-door
http://img2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20130611194431/lotr/images/5/59/The_key_to_erebor.jpg

We will see this during playtest, but it's the only way a Gollum corruption can win. It must have a good corruption engine.

It's OK to not change Gollum's corruption dynamics, but then Bilbo or The One Ring should give better chances of survival... By the way, I'd replace in the Gollum Pack 1x Better Than Nothing for another copy of Gollum, to give more chances of pulling him (he's the center card of the whole culture and 2x means too small chances in my opinion).

Bilbo will need to use The Ring often in his skirmishes, and Gollum (and Orkish Sneak) will force him to fight.
The One Ring may have a little change to its Skirmish ability:
Skirmish: Add a doubt or exert Bilbo to wear The One Ring until the regroup phase.

That way, The Ring can give a strength bonus without adding doubts as far as Bilbo doesn't lose the skirmish. There is only one pump for him (Noble Intentions) so he'll be relying on followers and The Ring often to survive. And thus will pay often their costs of use.

I think site 4 Great Goblin's Cavern could be good for many Shadows (except Spiders, but they have the site 5) : weapons for and Troll, no Ring for Gollum, weapons for Wargs if they splash minion to play scimitar.

Great Goblin's Cavern seems ok, as powerful cards as Forges of Erebor and either Dale or Entrance of Erebor will be in the Extension Set. Along with Saruman, Thranduil, The Necromancer...


Thanks Enola and everyone reading for your patience!

[Durin's Heir]

Here's another Shadow follower, in the same way as Thranduil, Elvenking was conceived:

•Legolas, Protector of the Woodrealm (Shadow Card)
Follower - Elf
Strength -2.
Aid - Heal bearer or Kili. Bearer must be a Dwarf.
If you can spot Smaug or bearer wins a skirmish, discard Legolas.
Bearer may not be overwhelmed unless his strength is tripled and does not gain strength bonuses from possessions.
"Do not think I won't kill you, Dwarf!"

If anyone of you reading has another idea of how Shadow followers may work, please don't hesitate to post it. No matter how good or bad you do think it is, or how much you like/dislike my suggestions, just post it. Different ideas can enhance each other...

If there will be characters present in both Shadow and FP sides (double agents), a nice consequence of having a Shadow version of a given Elf in play is the FP player must get rid of it in order to being able play the FP counterpart. The exact reciprocal would happen with the Shadow player: if FP player has the good version of Legolas in play, he/she must discard but not kill him in order to play the Shadow counterpart.

As there are no possible different names here to represent the alter ego of an Elf (as Gollum/Smeagol in LOTR TCG, or Saruman/Curunir in LOTR dreamcards), the uniqueness will make those versions compete if the character is released as a double agent. Tauriel should work only for Free Peoples.

Thus, some cards (like events or characters) may work discarding Shadow/FP characters as effect (or even as requisite). And Shotgun Orkish Marauder should replace its text "Maneuver: Spot 7 companions (or 4 followers)..." with "(or 4 Free Peoples followers)", or otherwise the Shadow player will force its trigger. And blood would run for free.

[-Enola-]

Hey Durin's Heir,

I'm sorry, but I'm much more focus on the balance of the game right now than creating new cards .

Can you make a card list with the number of copies for each card that will be in the extension set?


Nevertheless, I made quickly a Legolas based on your thoughts .



After the first tests of the game, I will post soon the next updates.

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

[Durin's Heir]

Hey Durin's Heir,
I'm sorry, but I'm much more focus on the balance of the game right now than creating new cards .

Can you make a card list with the number of copies for each card that will be in the extension set?

I haven't made a list but can work on it. Actually I've been improvising each time a new card idea gets posted...
It will be a trial-and-error labour, moreover as we will need to watch the third movie in order to get more accurance/information. And to define the number of copies of each card in that Extension Booster Deck (or whatever name it takes), we will require first to set goals, and maybe some experimentation after that. So the list will have to pass through several modifications...

The distribution of Sites, FP and Shadow cards in your Booster Deck is as it follows:
- 12 Sites
- 52 FP cards
- 80 Shadow cards

That is 12 : 52 : 80, or 3 : 13 : 20. As the Main Deck doesn't contain an equal card distribution, 30 FP to 20 Shadow, the Booster deck you designed needs to be inclined towards the Shadow side. But after that, both sides should be more or less equilibrated. I think the second Booster Deck, the Extension, should have a ratio of 1 FP : 1 Shadow.

I believe there may be at the end of designing too many cards for only one Extension, so maybe in that eventuality there will be need to make another one. The first could be called "The Desolation of Smaug" including only themes from 1st and 2nd Movies, and excluding themes corresponding the last Movie: The White Council fighting Sauron, Smaug's death, Fortifications, the Battle of the Five Arimes (Mirkwood Shadow elves turning into FP allies/followers; Bats, Olog-hai), Sackville-Bagginses and Bilbo's return... Those themes should be then included in the second Extension: "The Battle of the Five Armies"...

That way we can work more easily in designing cards for consistent themes, instead of just a pile of strong individual ones.

Nevertheless, I made quickly a Legolas based on your thoughts .

That looks awesome! It even has some leftover space to add a lore text... "Do not think I won't kill you, Dwarf!"

After the first tests of the game, I will post soon the next updates.

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

I like most of those changes... The Master's healing skill is great and Orkish Marauder looks better as a small guy with maneuver killing skills (with a warg his strength and vitality increases, ending more or less like Shotgun Enquea).

Anyway, the new text of Caught in Webs worries be a little, as it can set up for an easy swarm: as the condition removal is very limited, you would need to keep 2 or 3 of those in hand and only one Old Tomnody and wait for enough twilight (at fierce assignment Bilbo would be fighting 3 or more Spiders). It should provide the options of restriction OR punishment in order to assign: "While you can spot a Spider, the Free Peoples player must first exert bearer to assing him to a skirmish". An adaptation of Morgul Spearman's text. If it feels then like a weak card, add some strength reduction, -1 or even -2.



@ Lauben: The card-designing work you have made with your friend and brother may be very useful here. I would like to see part at least of that work posted in this thread, or you may send it to me in a PM. I'd be really grateful. We'd be...

And don't worry about your english ... We are a French, a German and a Chilean speaking in english; in another age we would be talking in Latin (or Neolatin). Or even Arabic.

[Durin's Heir]

Legolas' gametext is a bit longer than Thranduil's... so there is room for a lore text for the Elvenking too.

"You have my word. One King to another."

[Durin's Heir]

I was wondering, is A Wizard is Never Late meant to play followers in your Draft Game?

I ask because, if the answer is yes, then you will need to change either the rules of followers or the gametext of that card ("Play a character or a follower..."). Decipher said followers aren't considered characters at all (and don't have a race). But we are assigning them a race, which corresponds to the treatment a character would receive...


By the way, what do you think about the idea of implementing tale keyword dynamics to some cards, as the suggestion I made with The Arkenstone? In the case there will be tale cards and dynamics incorporated in the Extension set, then would be wiser to give that keyword to corresponding cards (lore, memories, some relics...) in the First set too.

[Durin's Heir]

I'm working on the cardlist while the card development continues. Here are 3 more card proposals:


•Thorin, Lord of the Blue Mountains or King in Exile
Companion - Dwarf
Strength: 7  Vitality: 4
Damage +1. For each wounded Dwarf you can spot, Thorin is strength +1.
Response: If another Dwarf is about to take a wound, exert Thorin and discard a card from hand to prevent that wound.
"Do we sit back while others claim what is rightfully ours? Or do we seize this chance to take back Erebor?!"

A bold Thorin determined to protect his Company, and to restore the greatness of his people, at any personal cost. No twilight reduction on this one...

The more wounded and wearier is his people, the stronger he becomes. His response action can turn any card in hand into a version of Gondor Will See It Done; the wound isn't prevented but distributed.


•Tauriel, Guard Captain of the Woodrealm
Follower - Elf
Strength +1  Vitality +1
Aid - Exert bearer or discard an card from play (except Thranduil).
Bearer is an archer. If bearer is Kili, he is strength +2.
Regroup: Make the move limit for this turn is -1 to heal bearer or to discard a Shadow condition he bears. Return Tauriel to your support area.
"It is our fight. It will not end here. With every victory this evil will grow."

An impulsive fighter of dagger and bow, moved by her principles and feelings instead of hierarchies and fear of consequences. And a good healer too... The aid cost can discard FP or Shadow cards.

Bearer becomes an archer. If bearer is Kili that part is useless, thus she gives him additional love. Only because of that ... Therefore, she turns a fighter into an archer, or a specific weak noble dwarven archer into a big fighter.

As for the regroup action, it has the cost of not allowing the fellowship to move again (whether it has moved once or twice), unless the move limit is 3. That way the healing/condition discarding effect won't be used more than once per turn (again, unless the move limit is 3, and if the fellowship moves twice). Though the regroup action may heal a wound, many times will only heal the exertion of transferring her as there won't be always things to get rid...

The order in which the regroup action is written is very important. Must heal prior to being returned to support area, otherwise an exhausted bearer will die.


•Galion, King's Butler (Free Peoples card)
Follower - Elf
Aid - Add a doubt.
Skirmish: At sites 1 to 5, discard Galion and exert Bilbo to cancel a skirmish involving bearer; any Shadow player may discard a Shadow follower borne by a companion to prevent that. At any other site, discard Galion to heal bearer.

This one is obvious: until site 5, cancel a skirmish or discard a Shadow follower. But Shadow player chooses...
At further sites heals bearer by adding a doubt, but it's not reusable. May even be discarded to pay Tauriel's aid cost.

[-Enola-]

I haven't made a list but can work on it. Actually I've been improvising each time a new card idea gets posted...
It will be a trial-and-error labour, moreover as we will need to watch the third movie in order to get more accurance/information. And to define the number of copies of each card in that Extension Booster Deck (or whatever name it takes), we will require first to set goals, and maybe some experimentation after that. So the list will have to pass through several modifications...

The distribution of Sites, FP and Shadow cards in your Booster Deck is as it follows:
- 12 Sites
- 52 FP cards
- 80 Shadow cards

That is 12 : 52 : 80, or 3 : 13 : 20. As the Main Deck doesn't contain an equal card distribution, 30 FP to 20 Shadow, the Booster deck you designed needs to be inclined towards the Shadow side. But after that, both sides should be more or less equilibrated. I think the second Booster Deck, the Extension, should have a ratio of 1 FP : 1 Shadow.

I believe there may be at the end of designing too many cards for only one Extension, so maybe in that eventuality there will be need to make another one. The first could be called "The Desolation of Smaug" including only themes from 1st and 2nd Movies, and excluding themes corresponding the last Movie: The White Council fighting Sauron, Smaug's death, Fortifications, the Battle of the Five Arimes (Mirkwood Shadow elves turning into FP allies/followers; Bats, Olog-hai), Sackville-Bagginses and Bilbo's return... Those themes should be then included in the second Extension: "The Battle of the Five Armies"...

That way we can work more easily in designing cards for consistent themes, instead of just a pile of strong individual ones.

Yes, 1 FP : 1 Shadow is great for a second booster deck. I made 3/5 of FP cards in main deck and 2/5 of FP cards in the Boosters deck. The draft is more about choosing his Shadow side and preparing the metagame for the FP side.

Ok for the extensions about thematic decks. Don't know how many cards you want to make but be careful to make a number of cards multiple of 4 (I build all the games for 4 players, you take twice the quantities if you want to play with 8 players).

For Fortifications, be careful there is no FP conditions in the main game, so no condition discard for the Shadow player.

You can also make some cards which give you actions during the draft phase, like taking two cards rather than just one .

I was wondering, is A Wizard is Never Late meant to play followers in your Draft Game?

I ask because, if the answer is yes, then you will need to change either the rules of followers or the gametext of that card ("Play a character or a follower..."). Decipher said followers aren't considered characters at all (and don't have a race). But we are assigning them a race, which corresponds to the treatment a character would receive...

It's only for companions and allies. But I can make it more explicitly in the text.

[-Enola-]

Update 20/11/2014

Three new Bilbo!! At the beginnning of the draft, players will now choose randomly and independently among 4 different Bilbo and 4 different Gandalf.
• Bilbo, Collector of Treasures   
• Bilbo, Master in Riddles   
• Bilbo, Reliable Companion

I also make a lot of changes after our first playtest last thursday.   
For example, the Spider culture is fully readjusted.

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

[Durin's Heir]

For Fortifications, be careful there is no FP conditions in the main game, so no condition discard for the Shadow player.

Then I will have to add condition discarding to the Shadow side. No problem about it.

As for the fortifications gameplay, I think they should have a big effect in a specific site ("Skirmish: At site 7 or 8, transfer this to a minion/companion..."), and in other sites just something like "Fellowship: Discard this card to draw a card"...

I never liked the idea of transferring fortified levels of Minas Tirith at sites 7 to 9, far away from Minas Tirith. It makes no sense. And don't want to replicate that mistake here.

Anyway, here fortifications take place at the end of the sitepath: sites 7, 8 and 9.

Also, some of those fortifications might be transferred to a Dwarf instead of a minion fighting that Dwarf ("Skirmish: At site 8 or 9, transfer this from support area to a Dwarf. Discard this card at the regroup phase" or so). Just as Shadow followers are here transferred to companions instead of minions.

The great battle at the Forges of Erebor may be depicted by means of fortification cards.

You can also make some cards which give you actions during the draft phase, like taking two cards rather than just one .

I hadn't thought about that possibility. That looks great!
In my opinion, it should be added to weaker cards instead of the stronger ones... we don't want a player choosing the Oakenshield and another card at the same time. Events and conditions mostly. Or maybe Fili and Kili, Dwalin and Balin...

It's only for companions and allies. But I can make it more explicitly in the text.

That's right. I will make a version for dwarves too, for companions and followers but not allies.

The use of a race for followers can be useful anyway... Look at this site:

The Prancing Pony
Site 1
When the fellowship moves from this site, each player may play a Dwarf follower or Man follower from his or her draw deck.

That way, prior to the maneuver phase, Shadow player may play Squint or Bill Ferny Sr, while FP player may play Barney Butterbur or Bombur... Then at maneuver phase those can be used.

[-Enola-]

Then I will have to add condition discarding to the Shadow side. No problem about it.

As for the fortifications gameplay, I think they should have a big effect in a specific site ("Skirimish: At site 7 or 8, transfer this to a minion/companion..."), and in other sites just something like "Fellowship: Discard this card to draw a card"...

I never liked the idea of transferring fortified levels of Minas Tirith at sites 7 to 9, far away from Minas Tirith. It makes no sense. And don't want to replicate that mistake here.

Anyway, here fortifications take place at the end of the sitepath: sites 7, 8 and 9.

Also, some of those fortifications might be transferred to a Dwarf instead of a minion fighting that Dwarf ("Skirimish: At site 8 or 9, transfer this from support area to a Dwarf. Discard this card at the regroup phase" or so). Just as Shadow followers are here transferred to companions instead of minions.

The great battle at the Forges of Erebor may be depicted by means of fortification cards.

Yes, you're idea is probably better than the Knights conditions in TTT and ROTK.
Ok if you add some Shadow condition discard, but these cards need to be in a good quantity to avoid negative play experience.
This great battle could be really well done in a specific extension.

About drafting action.... In my opinion, it should be added to weaker cards instead of the stronger ones...

Yes, the draft procedure will be much more dynamic with such improvements. But it's not a need only a suggestion.

That's right. I will make a version for dwarves too, for companions and followers but not allies.

The use of a race for followers can be useful anyway... Look at this site:

The Prancing Pony
Site 1
When the fellowship moves from this site, each player may play a Dwarf follower or Man follower from his or her draw deck.

That way, prior to the maneuver phase, Shadow player may play Squint or Bill Ferny Sr, while FP player may play Barney Butterbur or Bombur... Then at maneuver phase those can be used.

Yes sure, but about Barliman and Bill, they are only in LOTR, we will just focus on the Hobbit book and movies for the extensions. No?

[Durin's Heir]

Yes, 1 FP : 1 Shadow is great for a second booster deck. I made 3/5 of FP cards in main deck and 2/5 of FP cards in the Boosters deck. The draft is more about choosing his Shadow side and preparing the metagame for the FP side.

Ok for the extensions about thematic decks. Don't know how many cards you want to make but be careful to make a number of cards multiple of 4 (I build all the games for 4 players, you take twice the quantities if you want to play with 8 players).

The sitepath might be a bit large. The rest should be 1 FP : 1 Shadow. I'll try to make each Extension Booster deck have a total of 144 cards, just like your Booster deck.


The Booster deck for "The Desolation of Smaug" will include things present in the first 2 movies, but will exclude things corresponding to the last film:
- Thorin as King Under the Mountain
- versions of Fili and Kili protecting Thorin
- Armaments of Erebor (including the Mithril-Coat)
- fortifications
- the White Council fighting Sauron
- Dain Ironfoot and the Dwarves of the Iron Hills
- Thranduil and Bard's armies (as FP)
- Azog's army, with Bats and Olog-hai...


There are many sites not yet included, and the possibilities for site 5 are worrying me a bit.
In geographical order:
The Carrock, Beorn's House, Mirkwood, Old Forest Road, Enchanted River, Dungeons of the Woodland Realm, Cellars of the King, and The Forest River. Total: 8. Those in bold were included by you. That leaves 6 new versions of Site 5...

Unlike possible sites 4, each of those sites is a very different place and each plays its part in the story. My favourites are The Carrock, Enchanted River and Dungeons of the Woodland Realm, and I know there is no chance of working on each of those 6.

The Carrock
Site 5  Shadow Number 7
"River. When the fellowship moves to The Carrock, wound each minion twice and discard Gandalf."

Warg riders and Trolls may survive...

Enchanted River
Site 5  Shadow Number 7
"River. Forest. When the fellowship moves to Enchanted River, the Free Peoples player must discard each follower or exert 3 companions."

Dungeons of the Woodland Realm
Site 5  Shadow Number 6
"Underground. Forest. When the fellowship moves to Dungeons of the Woodland Realm, discard each weapon borne by a Dwarf."

Those 2 latter don't discard Gandalf... but they strike really hard against dwarves. Leader of the Company should have some counters at site 5. Those don't attempt to discard him, thus may be considered as relative counters to him.

[Durin's Heir]

Yes sure, but about Barliman and Bill, they are only in LOTR, we will just focus on the Hobbit book and movies for the extensions. No?

I'm referring to the 2nd film, at the start. Tolkien wrote about a meeting of Gandy and Thorin at The Prancing Pony, that's canonical. And those characters I said aren't canonical but Jackson's creations: Barney Butterbur is the Innkeeper (Barliman's father actually), while Bill Ferny Sr (the guy with hair) and Squint (the bald one) are mercenaries sent by Azog to kill Thorin... (respectively, the father of Bill Ferny and Squint-Eyed Southerner).
I want to include them as followers: and [Gundabad]. Even Albert Dreary (Jackson's cameo) appears in that scene...

Yes, you're idea is probably better than the Knights conditions in TTT and ROTK.
Ok if you add some Shadow condition discard, but these cards need to be in a good quantity to avoid negative play experience.
This great battle could be really well done in a specific extension.

Negative play experience. An euphemism for King block fortifications. Totally agree. There will be plenty of condition removal presence for the Shadow side...

The battle between the Company and Smaug can be depicted using events and fortifications in the FP side, and events and conditions on the Dragon's one. You made Shadow skirmish events usable by any minion, I want to replicate that, except a given event should be stronger with a specific culture or character. Smaug, for example...

Yes, the draft procedure will be much more dynamic with such improvements. But it's not a need only a suggestion.

A good suggestion. Powerful cards (rare-like) tend to use most of the card space, while weaker ones (commons and uncommons) leave much space often. That extra space can be used with "Draft:" wording, and lore text too...

[Durin's Heir]

Update 20/11/2014

Three new Bilbo!! At the beginnning of the draft, players will now choose randomly and independently among 4 different Bilbo and 4 different Gandalf.
• Bilbo, Collector of Treasures   
• Bilbo, Master in Riddles   
• Bilbo, Reliable Companion

I also make a lot of changes after our first playtest last thursday.   
For example, the Spider culture is fully readjusted.

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

Spiders look strong but not OP. Caught in Webs doest what it should: strength reduction and movement nullification (assignment blockage). Great!

I like those new versions of Bilbo. Collector of Treasures looks very appealing, while Master in Riddles is a killer. I fear that version can kill Smaug easily: retain your hand when moving from 7 to 8, and discard it to make Smaug strength -16... If it were -1 to both Gollum and Smaug, by discarding the whole hand Smaug would be strength 9, and if Kili wounds him, Thorin with Orcrist and Bombur will kill him without effort. I'd put a limit to that ability, -3 or -4.

Reliable Companion looks as Gimli, Unbidden Guest. I agree with the double exertion (to prevent an abuse of it), but should give +2 instead of +1...

Those Gandalfs seem more equilibrated now. Leader of Dwarves might even cost 2 instead of 1, as Thorin has a reduction that doesn't depend anymore on spotting 2 dwarves. The new picture of Thorin looks much better!

What happened to Smaug's maneuver ability? Was it too powerful?

[-Enola-]

I like those new versions of Bilbo. Collector of Treasures looks very appealing, while Master in Riddles is a killer. I fear that version can kill Smaug easily: retain your hand when moving from 7 to 8, and discard it to make Smaug strength -16... If it were -1 to both Gollum and Smaug, by discarding the whole hand Smaug would be strength 9, and if Kili wounds him, Thorin with Orcrist and Bombur will kill him without effort. I'd put a limit to that ability, -3 or -4.

Reliable Companion looks as Gimli, Unbidden Guest. I agree with the double exertion (to prevent an abuse of it), but should give +2 instead of +1...

All Bilbo must be equilibrated with the first one, Expert Burglar. So their abilities must be very occasionnal.
I think the +1 is just a way to get out of a bad situation.
Collector of Treasures, the FP player doesn't win often against a unique minion), and the effect is not OP.
For the Master in Riddles, Smaug can still win his skirmish with only one skirmish boost event and a discarded FP hand.

Those Gandalfs seem more equilibrated now. Leader of Dwarves might even cost 2 instead of 1, as Thorin has a reduction that doesn't depend anymore on spotting 2 dwarves. The new picture of Thorin looks much better!

What happened to Smaug's maneuver ability? Was it too powerful?

The Smaug's ability was too useless during games, we decided to remove it and make a crowd-control minion.

Yes, the Leader of Dwarves is hard to balance with the other ones. It's the only Gandalf who can't search the right companion for the right match-up. All depends on the way the player draws his cards.
I don't know if Gandalf+Thorin+2 little Dwarves or Gandalf+Thorin+1 Dwarf (cost 3), or in the case of Gandalf cost is 2 Gandalf+Thorin+1 little Dwarf, what is the best way to be equilibrated with the other Gandalf ?

[-Enola-]

I'm referring to the 2nd film, at the start. Tolkien wrote about a meeting of Gandy and Thorin at The Prancing Pony, that's canonical. And those characters I said aren't canonical but Jackson's creations: Barney Butterbur is the Innkeeper (Barliman's father actually), while Bill Ferny Sr (the guy with hair) and Squint (the bald one) are mercenaries sent by Azog to kill Thorin... (respectively, the father of Bill Ferny and Squint-Eyed Southerner).
I want to include them as followers: and [Gundabad]. Even Albert Dreary (Jackson's cameo) appears in that scene...

Yes I know, it was just to be much more focus on the Bilbo's adventure, but ok for including them in the extension.

[-Enola-]

The sitepath might be a bit large. The rest should be 1 FP : 1 Shadow. I'll try to make each Extension Booster deck have a total of 144 cards, just like your Booster deck.

The extension booster deck is there to replace the first booster deck or to add new boosters. Because drafting 6 boosters packs will take a long time and if there is an additional extension, it will become very long. Maybe only 1 booster pack per extension ? So 48 cards ?
Moreover, it will need a lot of playtest with 144 cards .

[Durin's Heir]

... Barney Butterbur is the Innkeeper (Barliman's father actually), while Bill Ferny Sr (the guy with hair) and Squint (the bald one) are mercenaries sent by Azog to kill Thorin...
I want to include them as followers: and [Gundabad]. Even Albert Dreary (Jackson's cameo) appears in that scene...

Yes I know, it was just to be much more focus on the Bilbo's adventure, but ok for including them in the extension.

That's actually the start of Bilbo's adventure, the first drawing of the conspiracy against Smaug. As The Prancing Pony would be site 1, don't think it'd do any harm...
There is another canonical meeting after this at Thorin's Halls in the Blue Mounatins, but Jackson didn't have the rights to include it in the films (just as the names of Alatar and Pallando).

All Bilbo must be equilibrated with the first one, Expert Burglar. So their abilities must be very occasionnal.
I think the +1 is just a way to get out of a bad situation.
Collector of Treasures, the FP player doesn't win often against a unique minion), and the effect is not OP.
For the Master in Riddles, Smaug can still win his skirmish with only one skirmish boost event and a discarded FP hand.

I know, but as it is written Master of Riddles can discard 8 cards to make either Gollum strength -8 or Smaug -16. Smaug will be overwhelmed that way, unless he is reinforeced with 2 or 3 events, depending on Thorin's strength (followers and Orcrist), still losing the first skirmish. And Ori can draw a total of +2 cards... -10 to Gollum or -20 to Smaug.

If it had a limit like TMAYOD, or if it was -1 for both Smaug and Gollum, that problem wouldn't occur.

The Smaug's ability was too useless during games, we decided to remove it and make a crowd-control minion.

I agree it is almost useless against The Master, Radagast, Elrond and Gwaihir only, moreover if Kili is present and fully healed. But that is in respect of the First Set only. In any Extension Set there will be more non- followers and allies to use: Saruman and Galadriel; Thranduil, Legolas, Tauriel and Mirkwood elves; more Eagles, maybe mr. Butterbur...

That maneuver ability might save the day as there might be too many useful allies at the end of the sitepath, and Smaug would discard them for a killing site 9.

Anyway Smaug has enough card space for a special ability, whether is that ally-follower hate or another one we might develop. And if you want more card space, that current twilight reduction text might be reduced to "For each Dwarf, Man and Elf you spot" (FP AND Shadow ones, characters AND followers). That would exclude Eagles, Bilbo and Wizards but Smaug didn't have them in his mind.

Yes, the Leader of Dwarves is hard to balance with the other ones. It's the only Gandalf who can't search the right companion for the right match-up. All depends on the way the player draws his cards.
I don't know if Gandalf+Thorin+2 little Dwarves or Gandalf+Thorin+1 Dwarf (cost 3), or in the case of Gandalf cost is 2 Gandalf+Thorin+1 little Dwarf, what is the best way to be equilibrated with the other Gandalf ?

You are right, as there is only 1 copy of each dwarf and only one drawing mechanism, Ori. Thus you need to start with each Dwarf companion your deck will require to work well... Thorin + either Nori or Dwalin, or Thorin + Gloin + Kili look solid as starting fellowships. Plus Gandalf.
Maybe the downside should be something like "Each time the fellowship moves, add ". That because of the other Gandies will be adding twilight for each dwarf played from draw deck.

Besides, replaying Gandalf after his discarding at Mirkwood/Old Forest Road for only 1 twilight doesn't look good in my opinion... Adding that text would instead make the real cost of replaying him.

[-Enola-]

For Bilbo MiD, his ability is only Free Peoples cards in hand, but I just change it a bit to make it more balanced.
I hope this update answer some of your remarks.

Thank you .


Update 24/11/2014 http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

A wizard is never late
Play Gandalf, Elrond or a ally from your draw deck or discard pile.

• Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves
Each time the fellowship moves, add (1).

• Bilbo, Master in Riddles   
Skirmish: Discard 2 Free Peoples cards from hand to make Gollum strength -2.

• Smaug,   The Golden   
Cost 16
For each Dwarf, Man and Elf you spot, Smaug s twilight cost is -1.
Regroup: Exert Smaug and discard another minion to discard a Free Peoples card (except a companion or Bard).

[Durin's Heir]

The extension booster deck is there to replace the first booster deck or to add new boosters. Because drafting 6 boosters packs will take a long time and if there is an additional extension, it will become very long. Maybe only 1 booster pack per extension ? So 48 cards ?
Moreover, it will need a lot of playtest with 144 cards .

I was eluding this question as I didn't know what to answer...
I think each Extension should have only one booster pack, and each booster should have 72 cards instead of 144. That, because I see really difficult to replace the Booster deck you made and thus those new ones should be supported by the first.

An idea to give more balance to lucky/unlucky booster pulls, and to reduce the need of huge Extension booster decks, might be to give each player an Extension Main deck of 24 fixed cards or so: 3 or 4 Sites, 9 or 10 FP, 10 Shadow, and 1x The Key to Erebor.

For Bilbo MiD, his ability is only Free Peoples cards in hand, but I just change it a bit to make it more balanced.
I hope this update answer some of your remarks.

Thank you .


Update 24/11/2014 http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

A wizard is never late
Play Gandalf, Elrond or a ally from your draw deck or discard pile.

• Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves
Each time the fellowship moves, add (1).

• Bilbo, Master in Riddles   
Skirmish: Discard 2 Free Peoples cards from hand to make Gollum strength -2 (or Smaug strength -3).

• Smaug,   The Golden   
Cost 16
For each Dwarf, Man and Elf you spot, Smaug s twilight cost is -1.
Regroup: Exert Smaug and discard another minion to discard a Free Peoples card (except a companion or Bard).

I like them! Smaug's ability may wreck almost anything we create in the Extension Sets, and can be reduced or neglected by Bard. Bilbo's skill is powerful but limited to a considerable cost. Gandalf has the same twilight dynamics for himself than Aragorn, Strider.

Anyway, here in your forum post Bilbo, MiR includes Smaug as target, while the card in your site doesn't.

What do you think about Bilbo, Reliable Companion giving strength +2 instead of +1? I like that double exertion as it will prevent its abuse, but +1 strength seems too little in my opinion.

[-Enola-]

Thank you very much .
It was a copy/paste error for the Bilbo, MiR.
The abilites of all Bilbo have to be used very few times, only in emergency cases. I think I will let Bilbo, RC with the +1.

Update 04/12/2014 http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

• Dain Ironfoot   
New picture.

• Sting   
Each time Bilbo wins a skirmish in which you played a event, you may discard a condition.

• Gandalf, The Grey Wizard
Each time you play a event, you may wound a minion.
Fellowship: Add 2 doubts to play a possession or a Dwarf companion from your draw deck or discard pile.

• Gandalf, Friend of Thorin   
Strength 7.
Skirmish: Discard Gandalf to wound each minion skirmishing him.

• Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves
Cost 2. No twilight add by moving.

• Thorin, Oakenshield
Cost 2.

• Nori, Of the Blue Mountains   
Maneuver: Exert Nori twice and discard a follower to discard a possession.

• Gwaihir   
Skirmish: Transfer Gwaihir to your support area to cancel a skirmish involving bearer and a mounted Orc.

• The Arkenstone   
Cost 1.

If He Loses
You may exert Gollum twice to play this event from your discard pile.

[Durin's Heir]

My friend Enola, I like those changes, Sting's text looks great. But there are 2 things to say about them:

Dain doesn't come as the King Under the Mountain (he picks that title only after Thorin, Fili and Kili were dead), but as the Lord of the Iron Hills, or a Sturdy Veteran, or a Loyal Kinsman or so.

The other point is the use of Gwaihir in underground sites, just maybe he should say "Transfer Gwaihir to your support area (except at an underground site)... and a mounted minion". Just maybe.


I've been working a bit on the Wraith culture. Take a look and give me your opinion...

[10] •Sauron, The Necromancer
Minion - Maia
Strength: 15  Vitality: 5  Site: 5
Fierce. Damage +1. Wizard and Elf allies may participate in skirmishes. Discard Sauron if roaming.
Assignment: Assign Sauron to skirmish Elrond, Galadriel or a Wizard. The Free Peoples player may discard both characters.
"There is no light, Wizard, that can defeat darkness!"

•The Witch King, Summoned Sorcerer
Minion - Nazgul
Strength: 14  Vitality: 3  Site: 5
Fierce. Wizard and Elf allies may participate in skirmishes.
Each time a minion is assigned to skirmish a Dwarf or a Man, that minion gains damage +1 until the regroup phase.

Witchie's text is there to represent the need Gandalf saw to make the Council force the Necromancer out and thus allow Thorin's Company a chance to reach the Mountain (he knew The Wise could fight them but not the Dwarves). And Necromancer's ability is quite obvious... Btw, Galadriel won't have less than 7 strength so don't worry about overwhelmings.

The text "Wizard and Elf allies may participate in skirmishes" is there to focus the clash of Dol Guldur against The White Council. It should be universal to any minion version of a Nazgul or Sauron (another version of Sauron might be a follower). While Wizards & Co. fight Sauron, Thorin & Co. must face Spiders and Mirkwood Elves... Legolas and Thranduil may only be transferred to dwarves.


We Grow In Number
Condition - Support Area
Shadow: Remove 2 doubts to play a or non-unique minion from your discard pile. Its twilight cost is -2.
Shadow: If you cannot spot 2 doubts, discard a minion from hand to add a doubt.

We Grow In Strength
Condition - Support Area
Skirmish: Spot a minion and either exert it or remove 2 doubts to make another minion strength +1.
Skirmish: Spot another card or 2 doubts and remove to make a minion strength +1.


Those 2 are conditions for every Shadow culture, as I know cultures will have few cards and therefore almost each card must work well as a standalone. The latter recycles the text of Strength Born of Fear, plus another use of spare doubts and vitality...

I haven't done anything yet to relate Spiders to Wraiths, but I will.

[Durin's Heir]

Maybe something like this...

The Greenwood is Sick [Spider]
Event - Skirmish
Exert a Spider or a minion to discard a Free Peoples condition.
"Witchcraft. Oh, but it is. A dark and powerful magic."

At skirmish, as minions will have to pass though maneuver events and archery wounds.

As another interaction, The Necromancer and maybe even the Witch King may destroy any dwarf "Caught in Webs"...

[-Enola-]

Dain doesn't come as the King Under the Mountain (he picks that title only after Thorin, Fili and Kili were dead), but as the Lord of the Iron Hills, or a Sturdy Veteran, or a Loyal Kinsman or so.

Thank you, I changed the subtitle of Dain.

The other point is the use of Gwaihir in underground sites, just maybe he should say "Transfer Gwaihir to your support area (except at an underground site)... and a mounted minion". Just maybe.

I think I will let Gwaihir with his text. I want to keep it as an attractive and simple card. Gwaihir can wait at the exit of the underground and then take the dwarves .



Your idea of allowing Wizard and Elf allies participate to skirmish is great. I don't know if the cards are balanced now, I need to see all the Shadow. How many copies of each card would you like to put in the extension booster deck ?
It's still an extension booster deck with 48 cards ?

[Durin's Heir]

Gwaihir can wait at the exit of the underground and then take the dwarves .

Hahaha! That's right!

Your idea of allowing Wizard and Elf allies participate to skirmish is great. I don't know if the cards are balanced now, I need to see all the Shadow. How many copies of each card would you like to put in the extension booster deck ?

I'm not sure yet... As the set will be relatively small, there will be little card titles per culture and most cards will have to work well without dependance (like your Shadow skirmish events, which are universal). So there shouldn't be much more Wraith cards, and we need to consider those 2 are the only official minions for the culture before the last movie/set arrives. Some concurrence cards like "Event - Shadow: play any minion (except Smaug) from your draw deck" will come in handy...

The set should be divided into Gundabad (with Moria), Wraith (with Spider), Elven and Smaug for the Shadow side. And there will be an Extension Main deck with fixed cards (see below) to relieve weight from the Booster deck and Booster drafting.

It's still an extension booster deck with 48 cards ?

The Extension Booster deck should have a total of cards multiple of 12, then 48 or 60 should be the options. There would be only 1 Booster drafted for each extension, or the drafting procedure will last forever.

Each extension will have an Extension Main deck of 20 or 24 fixed cards, in order to provide stability to booster pulls and reduce the need of big numbers (card copies & time) while drafting.

The Desolation of Smaug Main deck
FP:              10
Shadow:      10
Sites:             4

Free Peoples: 10

            1x •The Key to Erebor ?
            1x •Thorin. Random from 2 different versions:
                  1x •Thorin, Lord of the Blue Mountains
                  1x •Thorin, Son of Thráin Son of Thrór

            1x An Unexpected Party
            1x Careful With These
            1x Intimidate
            1x Strength of Spirit
            1x Take Back Erebor

            1x •Burglar's Contract
            2x Iron-Forged Weapon
            1x Wizard Staff

Sites: 4

            1x The Prancing Pony
            1x Great East Road
            1x Front Porch
            1x Enchanted River

Shadow: 10

            I still haven't figured what to add here... Likely will have to be something of general usefulness, like Orcs, Gollum, big monsters (Smaug or Sauron), events/conditions to play any minion (or almost any) from deck/discard...


The Key. I think it will turn the sitepath pretty important at a very high cost. With non-mountain sites, the response ability may save it with a total cost of 3 exertions to play/change only 1 site...
This card should be treated graphically as The One Ring in LOTR TCG, using most of the card space with the picture instead of the culture template. Here's a great example from http://lotrtcg.4gxg.com:




•The Key to Erebor, Heirloom of Durin's House
Possession
Tale. May be played during the starting fellowship. Bearer must be a Dwarf companion or Gandalf.
Response: If this card is about to be discarded, exert a companion to transfer it to another elegible bearer instead.
Fellowship or Regroup: Exert 2 Dwarves to play the fellowship's next site (replacing opponent's site if needed); discard this card if it's not a mountain.
"It was given to me by your father Thrain, for safekeeping. It is yours now."


Thorin. Each of those 2 versions of Thorin is a strong protector and a heavy fighter and thus has a twilight cost of no less than 3. The first one may be played along with Leader of Dwarves, the only version of Gandalf which won't be able to play Thorin from draw deck.

•Thorin, Lord of the Blue Mountains
Companion - Dwarf
Strength: 7  Vitality: 4
Damage +1. For each wounded Dwarf you can spot, Thorin is strength +1.
Response: If another Dwarf is about to take a wound, exert Thorin and discard a card from hand to prevent that.
"Loyalty, honor, a willing heart, I can ask no more than that."

•Thorin, Son of Thráin Son of Thrór
Companion - Dwarf
Strength: 7  Vitality: 4
Damage +1. For each tale and each wound on Thorin you can spot, Thorin is strength +1.
Assignment: Assign Thorin to an Orc, a Warg or Smaug to make him defender +1 and damage +1 until the regroup phase (limit once per phase).
"We few had survived and I thought to myself then 'There is one I could follow. There is one I could call King'."


Events.

An Unexpected Party
Event - Fellowship
Exert Bilbo or Gandalf to play a companion or follower from your draw deck or discard pile.
"The thing is, I don't... I don't know either of you, not in the slightest. I don't mean to be blunt, but I... but I had to speak my mind."

Careful with These!
Event - Fellowship
Add (or spot Fili and Kili) to play a weapon from your draw deck on a Dwarf companion.
"No! You can't come in, you've come to the wrong house."

Intimidate
Event - Response
Spell. If a companion or ally is about to take a wound, spot a Wizard to prevent that wound.

Strength of Spirit
Event - Response
Spell. If a companion or Wizard is about to exert, spot a Wizard to put no token for that exertion.

Take Back Erebor
Event - Fellowship
Exert up to 2 Dwarf companions to remove the same number of doubts.


Possessions. Those will give some balance to stronger minions and excessive exertions/wounds and doubts. No more boxing dwarves. Burglar's Contract should allow Bilbo for more skirmishes and doubt tolerance...

•Burglar's Contract
Strength +1  Resistance +2
Possession
Bearer must be Bilbo. To play, exert him.
Skirmish: Exert Balin (or 2 Dwarf companions) to make Bilbo may not be overwhelmed unless his strength is tripled.
"Everything appears to be in order. Welcome, master Baggins, to the Company of Thorin Oakenshield"

Iron-Forged Weapon
Possession - Hand Weapon
Strength +2
To play, exert a Dwarf (or spot The Master). Bearer must be a Man or a Dwarf.
Each time bearer wins a skirmish, you may place a Free Peoples card from your discard pile beneath your draw deck.

Wizard Staff
Strength +1
Possession - Staff
Bearer must be a Wizard.
Skirmish: Exert bearer twice (or once and discard a card from hand) to make a minion strength -2 (or -3 if bearer is assigned to a skirmish).
"There are five of us. The greatest of our order is Saruman the White. And then there are the two Blue Wizards..."


Sites.

The Prancing Pony
Site 1
When the felloship moves to site 2, each player may play a Dwarf follower or Man follower from his or her draw deck.

Great East Road
Site 2  Shadow Number: 2
Forest. Maneuver: Play Burglar's Contract from your draw deck.

Front Porch
Site 4  Shadow Number: 3
Mountain. Underground. Shadow: Play an Orc to draw a card.

Enchanted River
Site 5  Shadow Number 6
Forest. River. When the fellowship moves to Enchanted River, the Free Peoples player must discard each follower or exert 3 companions.


EDIT: Removed "Take Back Erebor" from the Extension Main Deck. Replaced it with "Careful With These!", in order to get weapons earlier for more. Those sites might be changed too...

[Nowhereman]

Will there ever be a format on Gemp for this game? Once its been tested and all?

[Danny]

Great work Enola!! These look amazing and capture the feel of the new movies. I can't believe all the hard work that's gone into them and the continued refinements. Looking forward to playtesting

[Danny]

I hope this will find its way to gemp! I miss second edition.

[-Enola-]

Will there ever be a format on Gemp for this game? Once its been tested and all?

Great work Enola!! These look amazing and capture the feel of the new movies. I can't believe all the hard work that's gone into them and the continued refinements. Looking forward to playtesting

Thank you for your support. The game has been playtested three times by a group of 4 players. The next playtest will be next wednesday. I will send an e-mail to MarcinS soon, I don't know if he would have time to put the Hobbit Draft Game on gemp.

[Durin's Heir]

About the inclusion in GEMP.... I'm sorry to say it's very unlikely it will happen soon. My friend Valtor told me MarcinS is relocating from Europe to USA, so probably issues like this will be in the deep background of his priorities for a time.

Anyway, that would allow more time to playtest the game, and therefore to enhance and fix some details.... You have to look always at the good side of everything.

[Durin's Heir]

About those 2 versions of Thorin proposed for the Extension:

I was thinking about and found both should have as cost, in order to allow him to be played along with Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves (the only Gandy who won't play a desired dwarf from deck). And Son of Thráin Son of Thrór must be modified as the current is heavily overpowered: he might easily end up being strength 15 or more with wounds and tales, so that bonus must be limited. This is what I mean:


•Thorin, Son of Thráin Son of Thrór
Companion - Dwarf
Strength: 7  Vitality: 4
Damage +1. Thorin is strength +1 for each wound on a character in his skirmish.
Assignment: Assign Thorin to an Orc, a Warg or Smaug to make him defender +1 and damage +1 until the regroup phase (limit once per phase).
"We few had survived and I thought to myself then 'There is one I could follow. There is one I could call King'."

No strength bonus from tales. The new strength bonus text is borrowed from Uruk Berserkers, surviviors and slayers par excellence. Also its a great skill to mix with the assignment ability: if he fights 2 minions, potentially there will be more wounds to spot (and a greater need of spotting them).

Keep in mind that strength bonus is quite dangerous, as a simple unexpected skirmish event may send an exhausted Thorin to the dead pile if it catches you unguarded. Nevertheless, it a very powerful version of the Exiled King: a bold hearted warrior who doesn't fear death but offers it to anyone in his path.


I've been working on Warg minions and their mechanics... soon will be posted.

There is a new thread to post ideas and work about the First Extension Set:

http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,9099.0.html

This will be posted in that thread too.

[-Enola-]

About the inclusion in GEMP.... I'm sorry to say it's very unlikely it will happen soon. My friend Valtor told me MarcinS is relocating from Europe to USA, so probably issues like this will be in the deep background of his priorities for a time.

Ok . I will see with him soon for the Hobbit Draft Game on gemp.


The next playtest of the Hobbit Draft Game will be done tomorrow.

We have some new ideas to improve the current game . Probably add 6 new cards to the Booster Deck, probably Thranduil, the Mithril Coat, the Key of Erebor and 3 sites (a site 2, a site 8 and a site 9).

[Durin's Heir]

We have some new ideas to improve the current game . Probably add 6 new cards to the Booster Deck, probably Thranduil, the Mithril Coat, the Key of Erebor and 3 sites (a site 2, a site 8 and a site 9).

What version of Thranduil do you mean? If it's the one I proposed, in my opinion it should be in the Spider Pack for flavor reasons (but remain as an Shadow card).

About the Mithril Coat, here's an idea. In the current cards, Bilbo doesn't have any overwhelming protection and the Ring gives him no base strength...

•Mithril-Coat, Kingly Gift or
Possession - Armor
Bearer must be Bilbo.
Bilbo may not be overwhelmed unless his strength is tripled and each minion skirmishing him loses all damage bonuses.
"'Mr. Baggins! Here is the first payment of your reward! Cast off your old coat and put on this!'"



Take a look at these ideas, maybe one of them fits with what you are looking for. Anyway, those were designed for the Extension sets so most of them won't fit, but might anyway inspire you...


Thrór's Throne
Site 9  Shadow number 9
Mountain. Underground. Battleground. When the fellowship moves to Thrór's Throne, the Free Peoples player must either add for each doubt or exert each Dwarf companion.

Ravenhill
Site 9  Shadow number 9
Mountain. Battleground. Each time a Free Peoples character gets killed at Ravenhill, add a doubt.



Dissension or [Gundabad]
Event - Skirmish
Spot X doubts to make a Dwarf companion strength -X. While you can spot The Arkenstone, this event's twilight cost is -2.
If a Free Peoples skirmish event was played this turn, you may exert Smaug twice to play this event from your discard pile.
"I am almost tempted to let you take it, if only to see Oakenshield suffer... watch it corrupt his heart and drive him mad."
Picture: Thorin blocking Bilbo's escape with his sword.

•Goblin Scribe
Follower - Orc
Strength +1  Vitality +1
Aid - Discard 2 cards from hand. Bearer must be an Orc.
Maneuver: If bearer is a Orc, exert it twice or discard this follower to discard a condition or to play an Orc from your draw deck.

•Bill Ferny Sr., Mercenary of Azog [Gundabad]
Follower - Man
Aid - . Bearer must be a Dwarf.
During skirmishes involving bearer, special abilities of cards may not be used.
If you can spot Smaug or bearer wins a skirmish, discard this minion.

•Squint, Outlaw [Gundabad]
Follower - Man
Aid - . Bearer must be a Dwarf.
During skirmishes involving bearer, events may not be played.
If you can spot Smaug or bearer wins a skirmish, discard this minion.

•The Wrongs of His House [Gundabad]
Condition
To play, exert a minion. Plays on Thorin.
Each time a tale is played or another Dwarf losses a skirmish, the Free Peoples player must discard a random card from hand.
"The embers in the heart of Thorin grew hot again, as he brooded on the wrongs of his House and the vengeance upon the Dragon that he had inherited..."
   - What The Weight of a Legacy should have always been, for Thorin this time.

•Lust for Gold (Shadow card)
Condition
Plays on Thorin. At the end of each assignment phase, if Thorin was not assinged to a skirmish and the Free Peoples player assigned another companion, add a doubt.
While a Dwarf companion's vitality is lower than the total doubts you can spot, that dwarf is strength -1 and damage +1.
Picture: Thrór's hand with the Ring. Or Thrór surrounded by gold.



•Saruman, Head of the White Council
Ally - Wizard - Home 3
Strength: 9  Vitality: 4
To play, add 2 doubts or exert Gandalf.
Each time a Free Peoples card adds or removes a doubt, add .
Response: If you play a event, exert a Wizard twice to place that event in your hand instead of your discard pile.
   - Almost a copy-paste of Into Dark Tunnels, but being a support card instead of an event, and allowing Saruman or Radagast to pay the cost.

I Command It Reveal Itself!
Event - Fellowship
Spell. Exert a Wizard twice to reveal a Shadow player's hand. Until the regroup phase that Wizard is damage +1, may participate in skirmishes and is strength +1 for each revealed minion (limit +4).


•Glóin, Eager Fighter
Companion - Dwarf
Strength: 6  Vitality: 3
Each time Glóin wins a skirmish, before wound assignment, he gains strength +1 and damage +1 until the regroup phase.
Skirmish: If Glóin is not assigned to a skirmish, exert Glóin to have him replace a Dwarf or a Man in a skirmish.

•One I Could Call King
Condition
Tale. Plays on Thorin.
Each time Thorin kills an unique minion, you may remove a doubt or heal a Dwarf.
Assignment: Exert Thorin and assign him to a minion with the highest strength. If he wins that skirmish, heal Thorin and make each Dwarf strength +1 until the regroup phase.
Picture: Thorin slicing off Azog's arm.

•Oakenshield
Strength +1
Possession - Shield
Bearer must be Thorin.
Each minion skirmishing Thorin does not gain strength or damage bonuses from weapons.
Response: If a minion skirmishing Thorin uses a special ability, exert Thorin to prevent that.
"...he hewed off with his axe a branch of an oak and held it in his left hand to ward off the strokes of his foes, or to wield as a club."


Goblin Scribe is my favourite here. And I think any of those Sites 9 may fit well with the theme of the original Hobbit Draft Game.

[-Enola-]

About the Mithril Coat, here's an idea. In the current cards, Bilbo doesn't have any overwhelming protection and the Ring gives him no base strength...

Dori prevent Bilbo from being overwhelmed unless his strength is tripled.

I don't know if in which pack these cards are made for ? By replacing which cards ? How many quantities ? Because I think most of the packs are full now.

But you can create a balanced Free Peoples pack of 10 cards. We have to make one for the Elves and one for the Esgaroth Men.

[-Enola-]

Update 18/12/2014 http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

Smaug's Den   
New picture

• Bolg, Son of Azog
New picture

Orkish Marauder   
New picture

Fat Spider
+1 copy

Better Than Nothing
+1 copy

If He Loses
+1 copy

4x Goblin Footman   
Moria culture

2x Spider Nest
Cost 2
To play, spot a Spider. Skirmish: Discard an Orc from play to play a Spider from your draw deck.

3x Watchful Orc   
Cost 4 Strength 8 Vitality 3 Site Number 3
When you play this minion, you may replace the fellowship's current site with a site from your adventure deck.

2x • Narzug,   Orkish Assassin   
Cost 2 Strength 6 Vitality 2 Site Number 3
When Narzug is killed or discarded from play (except during the regroup phase), you may remove (3) to wound an ally twice.

• Fili, Brother of Kili   
While Kili is exhausted, Fili is strength +3.

• The Arkenstone   
Cost 2
You may play a card stacked here as if played from hand.
Fellowship: Add (1) to stack a card from hand on the Arkenstone.

[Durin's Heir]

Dori prevent Bilbo from being overwhelmed unless his strength is tripled.

Totally forgot about followers. Sorry.
Such version I proposed of the Mithril Coat is shamefully overpowered anyway.

I don't know if in which pack these cards are made for ? By replacing which cards ? How many quantities ? Because I think most of the packs are full now.

Hmmm, I still don't know. But I was thinking about a similar idea to yours: small thematic packs, and each player choosing one of each Shadow and FP to include in the draft...
No random-chosen packs, but player-chosen...

Those are only a little part of the cards I've been creating, but have to admit many will end up in the garbage can. Many were built as a TCG instead of a Board Game, and that's not the goal here.

But you can create a balanced Free Peoples pack of 10 cards. We have to make one for the Elves and one for the Esgaroth Men.

What about a Shadow 10-cards pack for Dol Guldur? To counter the White Council pack I mean...
What do you think about Ravenhill? You asked for a site 2, a site 8 and a site 9. The fixed site 9 is meant to facilitate a beatdown or swarm victory, while the text of Ravenhill is meant to corrupt.

[-Enola-]

I'm working on new packs right now. Not sure if I will bring new sites now.

I think the random player choice is necessary, otherwise players will always chosen the same packs (and how these choices will be done ?).

You can think about new Swarm packs (2 Shadow of 20 cards each) and new Beatdown packs (2 Shadows of 15 cards and 1 Shadow of 10 cards).

Proposition for other shadow packs :
- "Siege of Dale" Pack (Swarm pack)
   - Archers driven by Bolg (Gundabad culture) : 20 cards
   - Siege driven by Azog (Moria culture?) : 20 cards
- "Rise of the Necromancer" Pack (Beatdown pack)   
   - Necromancien (Sauron culture) : 15 cards
   - Nazguls (Ringwraith culture) : 15 cards
   - Smaug (without culture) : 10 cards

[Durin's Heir]

Not sure if I will bring new sites now.

Current sites 5 seem too similar in my opinion. I propose The Carrock as a differentiation (replacing either Mirkwood or Old Forest Road):

The Carrock
Site 5  Shadow Number 8
Mountain. River. When the fellowship moves to The Carrock, wound each minion twice and discard Gandalf.

Proposition for other shadow packs :
- "Siege of Dale" Pack (Swarm pack)
   - Archers driven by Bolg (Gundabad culture) : 20 cards
   - Siege driven by Azog (Moria culture?) : 20 cards

In respect of Azog's Besiegers: Siege minions shouldn't be but [Gundabad], except for those "Goblin Mercenaries". But there was plenty of Trolls in the Battle of the Five Armies: some big Cave Trolls and many small Hill Trolls... Those generic small trolls should be non-unique, have high site number, low twilight cost and strength 8 or 9 but fierce and/or damage +1. And thus might be considered a middle ground between swarm and beatdown. And take into account cheap, fierce minions may play as both beatdown and swarm: if they kill some defenders in the first skirmish, chances are they can swarm in the fierce one.

[Troll] culture or [Gundabad] Trolls? Given their race, being [Gundabad] wouldn't make any difference with previous [Troll] cards made for Tom, Bert and Will like the Troll Knife; but would allow them use benefits for [Gundabad] minions. Also, the text "the twilight cost of each Troll is -2" of those 3 stone ones looks VERY appealing to make Trolls participate in a swarm.

Here's a sample of what small Trolls may look like:

Troll Soldier [Gundabad]
Minion • Troll
Strength: 8  Vitality: 2  Site: 6
Fierce.
When you play this minion, you may play a possession from your discard pile on a Troll.

To therefore play Troll Knife on it and pump it to strength 11, dmg+1, fierce. Or any other weapon/armor/tool for Trolls...

Troll Plate Armor [Gundabad]
Possession • Armor
Strength +2  Vitality +1
Bearer must be a Troll. Skirmishes involving bearer must be resolved before any others.


And to assemble swarms...

Gundabad Giant Bats [Gundabad]
Minion • Bat
Strenght: 4  Vitality: 2  Site: 5
This minion may not be assigned to a skirmish and is discarded if roaming.
The twilight cost of each [Gundabad] or [Spider] minion is -1, and each time you play one you may draw a card.

Giant Bat Band [Gundabad]
Minion • Bat
Strenght: 3  Vitality: 1  Site: 5
This minion may not be assigned to a skirmish. The site number of each [Gundabad] minion is -2.
Shadow: Discard a Bat minion to play an Orc or a Spider from your discard pile.

Play several of those bats from discard with Troll Campfire or equal conditions (there will be need of more), and watch your host grow wide and your opponent's face grow pale...


In respect of Archers: I didn't see too much evil archery in the movies: except for Goblin Town archers there was just Bolg's troop in DoS. But I've been working on some ideas:

Goblin Bow
Possession • Ranged Weapon
Strength +1
To play, spot a card. Bearer must be an Orc. Bearer is an archer.
Regroup: Transfer this weapon to your support area.
Shadow: Remove (or spot a Orc) to transfer this weapon from your support area to an Orc.

A sort of replayable bow, in absense of Relics of Moria. But bearer must survive in order to be transferred to support area. Playable by Goblin Footman, and on Goblin Footman.

Goblin Archer Troop
Minion • Orc
Strength: 8  Vitality: 3  Site: 4
Archer. While you can spot another Orc archer, add 1 to the minion archery total.

Goblin Bowman
Minion • Orc
Strength: 4  Vitality: 1  Site: 4
Archer.

Gundabad Bowman [Gundabad]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 6  Vitality: 2  Site: 3
Archer. Shadow: Exert this minion and discard a card from hand to play Bolg or an archer from your discard pile.

Orkish Longbow [Gundabad]
Strength +1
Possession • Ranged Weapon
Bearer must be an Orc. Bearer is an archer.
If bearer is a [Gundabad] Orc, he is fierce.

Morgul Shaft [Gundabad]
Condition • Support Area
Strength -1
Response: After the Free Peoples player assigns archery wounds, spot a [Gundabad] Orc to transfer this condition to a companion wounded that way (except Bilbo). Limit 1 per character. Wound bearer at the start of each fellowship phase.

An archery version of Blade Tip.


It's just a mere try, and it's uncomplete. And lacks Bolg himself.

[Durin's Heir]

Proposition for other shadow packs :
- "Rise of the Necromancer" Pack (Beatdown pack)   
   - Smaug (without culture) : 10 cards

Regarding the Smaug Non-Culture... What template do you want to use? A black, or a dark-grey one? I suggest you to use none: just as Smaug (or The One Ring in LOTR), use the whole card space for the picture... The Shadow event I proposed, Dissension, should be a No-Culture card instead of a Sauron one. Even better, more card space for that dramatic scene!

Smaug Non-Culture should rely on doubts. Plant them and harvest them. Maybe a Shadow Arkenstone is a good idea, bearable by Thorin, Bilbo or Bard, and giving both benefits to bearer and doubt addition or harvesting...

Something like this:

The Arkenstone, King's Jewel (Shadow card) [No Culture]
Possession
Strength +2  Vitality +2
Plays on Bilbo. Each companion and ally of a different culture than bearer's is strength -2.
Each time the fellowship moves, add for each doubt.
Bilbo, Bard and Thorin gain this ability: "Maneuver: Add 2 doubts to transfer the Arkenstone to this character."
"That Stone of all the treasure I name unto myself, and I will be avenged on anyone who finds it and withholds it."

With an awesome picture like this one:
http://40.media.tumblr.com/e0e2a7208ed74f3c3c154d5137aecd2d/tumblr_n7dp8jegq31rx6pfdo1_500.png

Just like the FP Arkenstone gives some benefit to the Shadow (Smaug's twilight cost is -4), the shadow version gives strong benefits to bearer (strength +2 and vitality +2). There should be a Smaug card to play this from the draw deck, maybe Smaug himself, and a mechanism to discard the Free Peoples version... Divide and Rule!


I don't see any Corruption Pack, and might be a good idea to have one. Gollum Pack in the Beatdown one is a corruption shadow, but as a beatdown is useful only against Bilbo. Besides Bolg, Fat Spider and Orkish Sneak, there's no other doubt adding mechanism than Gollum culture...

Stinker, Fat Spider and Threatening Warg (and site 9) harvest doubts, but that's all regarding it.

[-Enola-]

Thank you Durin's Heir, I will use your cards soon. I'm much more focused on the balance of the Free Peoples packs right now.

[Durin's Heir]

I've been working on Warg minions and their mechanics... soon will be posted.

I said that some 19 or 20 days ago.
Sorry. I've been busy. Here they are:

Wargs here intend to both swarm and beatdown, but they depend on high numbers to do so (like a normal swarming Shadow). They are distincted by the keywords tracker and fierce. They attack in "group ambushes", which are depicted by means of a conditional strength bonus most wargs gives to the whole pack: "Until this minion loses a skirmish, each tracker is strength +1.". Therefore, the more numerous, the stronger each gets.

   Minions:
 - Scouting Wolf
 - Warg Sentry
 - Bloodthirsty Scout
 - Gundabad Hunting Pack
 - The Pale Warg, Leader of the Foul Pack

   Support Cards:
 - Scouting Warg
 - Drink Their Blood!
 - The Scent of Fear


Wargs differentiate their functions within the Pack:

1. "Scouts" are cheap front-line fighters who add twilight when their prey is tired. Always skirmish first, and can support other wargs if they first survive. Thus they protect the background wargs. Are the only who don't give bonuses to the whole pack, and often depend on them to be effective. These wolves don't ever roam...

Scouting Wolf [Gundabad]
Minion • Warg
Strength: 6  Vitality: 1  Site: 2
Tracker. Fierce. When you play this minion, add for each wounded companion.
Skirmishes involving this minion must be resolved before any others.
Skirmish: Discard this minion to make a [Gundabad] minion strength +2.

Warg Sentry [Gundabad]
Minion • Warg
Strength: 7  Vitality: 2  Site: 2
Tracker. Fierce. When you play this minion, add for each wounded companion.
Skirmishes involving this minion must be resolved before any others.
Skirmish: Discard this minion to make a [Gundabad] minion strength +2.


2. "Blood Trackers" give strength bonuses when they smell the blood of enemies, either to themselves alone or to the whole party. They allow mounted Orcs to get the same benefits of "wargs without riders" (see the second line)...

Bloodthirsty Scout [Gundabad]
Minion • Warg
Strength: 8  Vitality: 2  Site: 4
Tracker. Fierce. Until this minion loses a skirmish, each tracker is strength +1.
Each mounted Orc is a tracker.
Each tracker skirmishing a wounded companion or ally is strength +1.

Gundabad Hunting Pack [Gundabad]
Minion • Warg
Strength: 8  Vitality: 3  Site: 4
Tracker. Fierce. Until this minion loses a skirmish, each tracker is strength +1.
Each mounted Orc is a tracker.
This minion is strength +1 for each wounded companion you can spot.


3. "The Pack Leader" is much stronger and gives better bonuses to their subordiantes. Might stop further moves of the fellowship...

•The Pale Warg, Leader of the Foul Pack [Gundabad]
Minion • Warg
Strength: 9  Vitality: 3  Site: 4
Tracker. Fierce. Until this minion loses a skirmish, each tracker is strength +2 (or +3 if skirmishing a wounded companion).
Regroup: Exert 3 trackers to make the move limit -1 for this turn.


Support Cards:

Scouting Warg [Gundabad]
Strength +1  Vitality +1
Possession • Mount
Bearer must be a [Gundabad] Orc. Bearer is fierce and a tracker.
Bearer is strength +1 for each wounded companion and skirmishes involving him must be resolved before any others.

•Drink Their Blood! [Gundabad]
Condition • Support Area
Each time your [Gundabad] mount is discarded, you may play a Warg from your discard pile; it's twilight cost is -2.
Shadow: Discard a [Gundabad] mount to add (and draw a card if at a forest).

This one allows a warg mount to keep the fight if his master gets killed. (or goes to the Goblin Swarms . Allows to play any suitable warg minion for the situation: a Scout to add twilight and pump, a Blood Tracker or The Pale Warg to get much needed bonuses...

The Scent of Fear [Gundabad]
Condition • Support Area
Shadow: Discard 2 cards from hand to play a mount or a Warg from your discard pile.
Skirmish: Discard an unassigned Warg to make a [Gundabad] minion strength +2 (limit once).

Condition to support the swarm. Both in minion playing and skirmishes.


Well, that's all by now. Wolves who get stronger when their number is wide, and when their enemies are wounded...

I know this will need at least some tweaking, probably in the twilight costs.

I'm waiting for your thoughts. Hope you like them.

[-Enola-]

Update 18/01/2015 http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html


Site 6: Lake Town
Shadow number : 3
River. Sanctuary. The twilight cost of the first Orc played at Lake-Town each turn is -2.

In the main deck : Site 6: Esgaroth
Shadow number : 3
River. Sanctuary. At the start of the regroup phase, you may play a [Dale] or ally from your draw deck.

Site 2: Trollshaw Forest
Shadow number : 2
Forest. At the start of the maneuver phase, each player may play a hand weapon from his or her draw deck.

In the main deck : Site 2: Trollshaw Forest -> The Troll Hoard
Shadow number : 3
Forest. Underground. At the start of your fellowship phase, you may play a hand weapon from your draw deck.

Site 4: Great Goblin's Cavern -> Wooded Steep Cliff
Shadow Number 3
Mountain. Forest. When the fellowship moves to Wooded Steep Cliff, Thorin or 2 other companions must exert.

Site 9: Ravenhill
Shadow number : 8
Mountain. Maneuver: Remove your minion from the game to play a minion from your discard pile. Its twilight cost is -2.


Bilbo, Master in Riddles
Skirmish: Spot Gollum (or Smaug) and discard 2 Free Peoples cards from hand to make Gollum (or Smaug) strength -2.

Bilbo, Collector of Treasures
Response: If a unique minion loses a skirmish, take a Free Peoples artifact into hand from your draw deck (limit once per turn).

Bard
Change culture for Dale.

A Wizard Is Never Late
Play a Wizard from your draw deck or discard pile, or spot a Wizard to play a non-[Dwarven] character from your draw deck or discard pile.

Battle Fury
Make a Dwarf character strength +3 (or +4 if he bears a follower).

Spider Nest
To play, spot a Spider. Assignment: Discard an Orc from play to play a Spider from your draw deck. Its twilight cost is -2.

Watchful Orc
When you play this minion, you may make each site on the adventure path gains battleground, mountain, forest or underground until the end of the turn.
Shadow: Exert this minion twice to replace the fellowship's current site with your site of the same number.

Goblin Footman
When you play this minion, you may play a possession or an artifact from your discard pile on your minion.

Smaug
Regroup: Exert Smaug and discard another minion to discard a Free Peoples card (except a companion, Bard or a Ring).

These cards are now artifacts:
- Orcrist
- Sting
- Glamdring
- The One Ring

[-Enola-]

Update 18/01/2015 http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

There will be now 13 cards per booster pack instead of only 12 cards.
You can find the 8 new Free Peoples packs.


New Free Peoples packs

Dain Pack (10 cards) :
- 2x • Dain Ironfoot : Cost (3). Home 9. Strength 7, Vitality 3. Ally. Dwarf. Thorin is strength +1. At the start of the regroup phase, you may discard a follower to discard a minion (except Smaug).
- 2x • Iron Hills Army : Cost (3). Ally. Dwarf. Home 9. Strength 9, Vitality 3. Damage +1. Maneuver : If you can spot more minions than companions, exert Iron Hills Army and discard a follower to make an opponent discard a minion.
- 2x • Roäc, Son of Carc : cost (1). Follower. Bird. Strength +1. Aid - Exert Thorin. Maneuver: Discard Roäc to either play a ally from your draw deck, or to allow a ally to participate in skirimishes until the regroup phase.
- 2x Dwarven Spear : Cost (1). Possession • Hand Weapon. Strength +2. Bearer must be a character. While skirmishing a mounted minion, bearer is strength +1.
- 2x King Under the Mountain : Cost (1). Event. Fellowship: Add a doubt to play a follower from your draw deck.


Thorin Pack (10 cards) :
- 2x • Mithril Coat : Cost (2). Artifact • Armor. Bearer must be Bilbo. Each minion skirmishing Bilbo does not gain strength or damage bonuses from weapons. Response: If a skirmish event is played during a a skimish involving Bilbo, exert him to cancel that event.
- 2x • The Arkenstone : Cost (2). Artifact • Support Area. Smaug's twilight cost is -4. Fellowship: Add (1) to take a card stacked here in your hand. Maneuver: Stack a card from hand on the Arkenstone.
- 2x • Great Barricade : Cost (2). Possession • Support Area. Fortification. To play, exert a companion. If the fellowship moves during the regroup phase, discard this possession. At sites 7 and 8, each minion skirmishing a Dwarf companion is strength -2.
- 2x • Oakenshield : Cost (1). Possession • Bracers. Strength +1. Bearer must be Thorin. Each minion skirmishing Thorin does not gain strength bonuses from weapons. Response: If Thorin is about to take a wound, discard this possession to prevent that wound.
- 2x Dwarven Axe : Cost (1). Possession • Hand Weapon. Strength +2. Bearer must be a character. While bearer is at a mountain site, he is damage +1.


Thrain Pack (10 cards) :
- 2x • Thráin : Cost (2). Follower. Dwarf. Strength +1. Aid - Exert Gandalf and add (2). Each time bearer wins a skirmish, you may play a possession or artifact from your draw deck
- 2x • Ring of Thrór : Cost . Artifact • Ring. Vitality +1. Bearer must be a Dwarf companion. Bearer is strength +1 for each possession and artifact in your discard pile (limit +3). Maneuver: Take a event into hand from your discard pile. Discard this artifact.
- 2x • Thrór's Map : cost (2). Possession. Bearer must be a Dwarf companion. The Shadow's number of sites 7 and 8 is -2. Regroup: If the fellowship is at site 6 or lower, exert bearer and add (2) to discard a minion.
- 2x • Thrór's Key : cost (1). Possession. Bearer must be a Dwarf companion. Fellowship or Regroup: Exert bearer and discard a follower to play the fellowship's next site (replacing opponent's site if necessary). Heal a Dwarf companion if you play a mountain site.
- 2x Thrór's Heirlooms : Cost (3) Event. Regroup: Exert a Dwarf companion to play Thráin, a possession or artifact from your draw deck or discard pile.


Mirkwood Pack (10 cards) :
- 2x • Thranduil : Cost (4). Ally. Elf. Home 5. Strength 9, Vitality 4. Maneuver: Exert Thorin twice or discard a artifact to allow Thranduil to participate in skirmishes until the regroup phase.
- 2x • Tauriel : Cost (2). Ally. Elf. Home 5. Strength 6, Vitality 3. Archer. Maneuver: Exert Tauriel to return an Orc with strength 7 or less to its owner's hand.
- 2x • Legolas : Cost (2). Ally. Elf. Home 5. Strength 6, Vitality 3. Archer. Archery: Spot an Orc and exert Legolas to make the fellowhip archery total +1.
- 2x • Elf Army : Cost (3). Ally. Elf. Home 5. Strength 7, Vitality 4. Archer. Maneuver: If you can spot more minions than companions, exert Elf army to allow it to participate in archery fire and skirmishes until the regroup phase.
- 2x • Emeralds of Girion : Cost (2) Artifact • Support Area. Fellowship: Exert an Elf to heal a Man. Regroup: Exert a Man and discard this artifact to play an Elf from your draw deck or discard pile.


Esgaroth Pack (10 cards) : (New culture Dale, Bard will also change his culture)
- 2x • The Master : Cost (2). [Dale] Ally. Man. Home 6. Strength 5, Vitality 3. At the start of each of your turns, you may spot Bard to heal Bard and The Master. Fellowship: Exert The Master twice to discard up to 3 cards from hand and draw an equal number of cards.
- 2x • Baïn, Son of Bard : Cost (2). [Dale] Ally. Man. Home 6. Strength 4, Vitality 3. Bard is strength +1. Maneuver: Exert Baïn to allow Bard to participate in archery fire and skirmishes until the regroup phase.
- 2x • Esgaroth Volunteers : Cost (3). [Dale] Ally. Man. Home 6. Strength 6, Vitality 4. Archer. Maneuver: Spot Bard an exert Esgaroth Volunteers to allow Esgaroth Volunteers to participate in archery fire and skirmishes until the regroup phase.
- 2x Iron-Forged Weapon : Cost (2). [Dale] Possession • Hand Weapon. Strength +2. Bearer must be a Man or a Dwarf companion. Skirmish: If bearer is not assigned to a skirmish, discard this possession to wound a minion.
- 2x • Black Arrow : Cost (2). [Dale] Possession • Ranged Weapon. Strength +1. Bearer must be Bard. If Smaug is killed by a Bard's special ability, remove him from the game. Skirmish: Exert Bard to wound a minion skirimishing a Man.


Wizard Pack (10 cards) :
- 2x • Radagast
- 2x • Beorn
- 2x • Gwaihir
- 2x Wizard Staff : Cost (2). Artifact • Staff. Vitality +1. Bearer must be a Wizard. At the start of each of your turns, you may exert bearer to take a spell from your draw deck into your hand.
- 2x The Eagles Are Coming : Cost (2). Event. Spell. Maneuver: Exert Gandalf to play a follower from your draw deck or discard pile and attach it to a Dwarf companion (without paying the aid cost).


White Council Pack (10 cards) :
- 2x • Saruman, The White : Cost (4). Ally. Wizard. Home 3. Strength 8, vitality 4. Gandalf is defender +1. Fellowship: Discard a ally to play Gandalf from your discard pile.
- 2x • Galadriel, Elven Lady : Cost (3). Ally. Elf. Home 3. Strength 3, vitality 3. At the start of each of your turns, you may heal Gandalf. Skirmish: Exert Galadriel and discard a Shadow card from hand to make a minion strength -3 (or -6 if a or character is skirmishing that minion).
- 2x • Narya : Cost . Artifact • Ring. Vitality +1. Bearer must be Gandalf. Response: If Gandalf is about to be discarded, exert him to prevent that.
- 2x Gathering of the three Great Rings : Cost (3). Event. Spell. Maneuver: Make X minions strength -X until the regroup phase, where X is the number of the following characters you can spot: Gandalf, Elrond or Galadriel.
- 2x Former Herald : Cost (2). Event. Maneuver: Spot Gandalf and exert an ally whose home is site 3. Until the regroup phase, that ally is strength +3 and participates in skirmishes.


Bilbo Pack (10 cards) :
- 2x Old Thrush : Cost (1). Follower. Bird. Aid - exert Bilbo. Strength +1. Maneuver: Discard this follower to take into hand a Free Peoples card of bearer's culture from your draw deck or discard pile.
- 2x  Burglar's Contract : Cost (1). Possession. Bearer must be Bilbo. Skirmish: Add a doubt and exert Bilbo to add his strength to another companion (limit once per skirmish).
- 2x An Acorn from Beorn's house : Cost (1). Possession. Bearer must be Bilbo. Regroup: Discard this possession to remove a doubt and discard a Shadow condition.
- 2x Barrels : Cost (1). Event. Regroup: Exert 2 companions to discard up to 2 minions (except Smaug) and draw 3 cards. If the fellowship is at a river, make the move limit +1 for this turn.
- 2x Skillful negociator : Cost (2) Event. Maneuver: Spot an ally and exert Bilbo to allow that ally to participate in archery fire and skirmishes until the regroup phase.

[Hobbiton250]

I absolutely love these cards! Thank you for your very hard work and for sharing them with us.

[-Enola-]

Thank you very much .

Durin's Heir also helps me a lot with the text of the cards.

[-Enola-]

I just print all the cards for a 4th draft playtest (since the creation of the game) next thursday. I also made many games without drafting.

[Mythdracon]

This is truly beautiful artwork, and thoughtful gameplay that doesn't add too much complexity. Well done! It looks just as though Decipher had made the game. I'm also very fond of the follower mechanic, and I'm glad you added in many dwarves as followers.

[-Enola-]

This is truly beautiful artwork, and thoughtful gameplay that doesn't add too much complexity. Well done! It looks just as though Decipher had made the game. I'm also very fond of the follower mechanic, and I'm glad you added in many dwarves as followers.

Thank you a lot for your support. It's a real pleasure to see that LOTR TCG players like the Hobbit Draft Game .

[Cw0rk]

I was wondering, why do starter deck is 30FP and 25Shadow? Why not make it equal?

[-Enola-]

Because there are then more Shadow cards than Free Peoples cards in the Booster pack .
During the draft, players have to build their own Shadow side: Shadow cards in the main deck could be regarded as "support" cards.

[-Enola-]

Update 10/02/2015 http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

- • Gollum, Small Slimy Creature : Cost (2). Minion. Site 4. Strength 5, vitality 4. Each time Gollum wins a skirmish, you may add a doubt. Assignment: If Gollum is not roaming, exert Gollum and assign him to Bilbo to make Gollum strength +1 (or +3 at an underground site) until the regroup phase.

- • Thrór's Map : cost . Dwarven Possession. Bearer must be a Dwarf companion. Fellowship or Regroup: Exert bearer (or Elrond twice) or discard this possession to play the fellowship's next site (replacing opponent's site if necessary). Heal a companion if you play a mountain site.

- • Thrór's Key : cost (1). Dwarven Possession. Bearer must be a Dwarf companion. Each time the fellowship moves from site 6 or 7, remove (2). Regroup: If the fellowship is at site 6 or lower, exert bearer or discard this possession to discard a minion.

- • Saruman, The White : Cost (4). Ally. Wizard. Home 3. Strength 8, vitality 4. Wise. Gandalf is defender +1.
Fellowship or Regroup: Discard a Wise ally to play Gandalf from your discard pile.
Skirmish: Exert Saruman to make a Wise character strength +2 (limit +2).
"Are you in need of assistance, my Lady?"

- • Galadriel, Elven Lady : Cost (3). Ally. Elf. Home 3. Strength 3, vitality 3. Wise. At the start of each of your turns, you may heal Gandalf. Skirmish: Exert Galadriel and discard a Shadow card from hand to make a minion strength -2 (or -3 if a Wise character is skirmishing that minion).

- • Narya : Cost . Artifact • Ring. Vitality +1. Bearer must be Gandalf. The twilight cost of each event is -1. Response: If Gandalf is about to be discarded, exert him to prevent that.

- Former Herald : Cost (1). Event. Maneuver: Exert a Wise ally to make that ally strength +3 and participate skirmishes until the regroup phase.

- • Legolas : Cost (2). Ally. Elf. Home 5. Strength 6, Vitality 3. Archer. Archery: Spot an Orc and exert Legolas to make the fellowhip archery total +1 (or +2 if at a river or forest).

- • Baïn, Son of Bard : Cost (2). [Dale] Ally. Man. Home 6. Strength 4, Vitality 3. At the start of each of your turns, you may heal a [Dale] Man (except The Master). Maneuver: Exert Baïn to allow Bard to participate in archery fire and skirmishes until the regroup phase.

- Spider Nest : cost (2). [Spider] Condition. To play, spot a Spider. Assignment: Discard an Orc from play to play a Spider from your draw deck or discard pile. Its twilight cost is -2 (or -4 at a forest).

- Watchful Orc  : cost (4). [Gundabad] Minion. When you play this minion, you may play the fellowship's next site (replacing opponent's site if necessary). Shadow: Exert this minion twice to make each site on the adventure path gain battleground, mountain, forest or underground until the end of the turn.

- • Gandalf, The Grey : Cost (2). Companion. Wizard. Wise. Each time you play a event, you may wound a minion.  Fellowship: Add 2 doubts to play an artifact or a Dwarf companion from your draw deck or discard pile.

- • Beorn, Skin-Changer : Cost (3). Follower. Man. Strength +2. Vitality +1. Aid - Exert Gandalf. Shadow cards cannot discard Beorn. Each time bearer wins a skirimish, you may take a card from your dicard pile into hand or wound a minion bearer is skirmishing.

- Eagles Are Coming : Cost (3). Event. Spell. Skirmish. Exert Gandalf to play a follower from your draw deck or discard pile. You may attach a follower from your support area to a companion (without paying the aid cost).

- • Oakenshield : Cost (1). Possession • Shield. Strength +1. Bearer must be Thorin. The twilight cost of each event is -1. Response: If Thorin is about to take a wound, discard this possession to prevent that wound.

- • Thráin : Cost (2). Follower. Dwarf. Strength +1. Aid - Exert Gandalf and add (2). Each time bearer wins a skirmish, you may play a possession or artifact from your draw deck on bearer.

- Esgaroth Volunteers : mistake at "and".

- • Mithril Coat : Cost (2). Artifact • Armor. Vitality +1. Bearer must be Bilbo. The minion archery total is -1. While Bilbo is skirmishing, the twilight cost of each Shadow event is +2.

- • Great Barricade : Cost (2). Possession • Support Area. Fortification. To play, exert a companion. If the fellowship moves during the regroup phase, discard this possession. At sites 7 and 8, each minion skirmishing a Dwarf companion is strength -3.

- • Burglar's Contract : Cost (1). Possession. Resistance +1. Skirmish : Add a doubt and exert Bilbo to make another companion strength +2 (limit +4).

- Goblin Sneak  : cost (1). Minion. When you play this minion, you may place an Orc (or 2 Orcs at an underground site) from your discard pile beneath your draw deck.

- Site 2 : The Troll Hoard. New image (too dark).

- Wise keyword for all Gandalf, Elrond and Radagast.

[-Enola-]

Update 01/03/2015 http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

- • Thorin, Oakenshield
Fellowship: Discard a follower to place a artifact from your discard pile beneath your draw deck.

- • Kili, Brother of Fili   
Strength 6.

- • Fili, Brother of Kili   
Strength 6.
Response : If a companion is about to take a wound, exert Fili and add to prevent that wound.

- • Gloin, Father of Gimli   
Skirmish: Exert Gloin to make him strength +3.

- Orkish Marauder   
Vitality 2.
When you play this minion, you may spot 4 followers to exhaust a companion.

- • Gandalf, Friend of Thorin   
Regroup: Discard Gandalf to heal an ally.

[Durin's Heir]

Those changes look great! Cheers to that!


I've been toying with an idea for an Extension Set, I know the other thread is better for such a suggestion but don't want to change the focus there.

What if we add some dead characters? But not to allow them to fight like allies or be transferred like followers. Dead allies that must be played directly to the dead pile, and from there they affect the game. Characters that marked the spirit and story of their folk, and therefore while dead they still affect the story of the people that follows their legacy.

"Plays to your dead pile. While in your dead pile, this character's text remains active."

Dwarves would have Thrór, and perhaps Thráin if we are loyal to the book, while Dale would have Girion. As they aren't removable from the dead pile, the effect must be strong but not too much. And to counter those advantages there might be some Shadow cards that get stronger while you spot one or X characters in the dead pile (like Houses of Lamentation and Field of the Fallen require 1 dead character, or Beyond All Hope, Orc Butchery, Uruk Outrider and Orkish Headsman which get benefits from X dead ones).

might have the Old Took (he appears in the Extended Edition of An Unexpected Journey), but don't know if it would fit with the theme. Perhaps!

Dwarven:
Thrór, Deposed Overthrown King
Thráin, Missing King

Dale:
Girion, Lord of Dale

Shire:
Gerontius Took, Thain of the Shire?


As they won't fight, their base attributes would be there for flavour only...


•Thrór, Overthrown King
Ally • Dwarf • Site 8
Strength: 7  Vitality: 5
Plays to your dead pile. While in your dead pile, Thrór's text remains active.
Each wounded Dwarf is strength +1 (and damage +1 if you can spot an Orc).

"When Thrór came to Moria the Gate was open... and walked proudly in as an heir that returns."

•Thráin, Missing King
Ally • Dwarf
Strength: 8  Vitality: 4
Plays to your dead pile. While in your dead pile, Thráin's text remains active.
Each time you play a event, you may draw a card.

"He said nothing to Thorin of what was in his heart... he arose and said farewell and departed."


•Girion, Lord of Dale [Dale]
Ally • Man • Site 7
Strength: 8  Vitality: 4
Plays to your dead pile. While in your dead pile, Girion's text remains active.
Bard is strength +2 and may take no more than 1 wound per phase.
Assignment: Exert Bard (or spot Smaug) to allow him to participate in skirmishes.

"Girion Lord of Dale is dead... and where are his sons' sons that dare approach me?"


What do you think? It would be for an Extension Set only...

[Cw0rk]

I like the idea of these cards being in the dead pile. Its quite original.

[Durin's Heir]

Thank you, my fellow Cw0rk! It's original but a bit dangerous, as there aren't ways for the Shadow player to remove them from there, so they end up being as immovable as Bilbo. Therefore they must be relatively low-powered, and also there might be some cards that benefit from a swollen dead pile. Here are some possibilities:

Here Ends Your Filthy Bloodline! [Gundabad]
Event - Skirmish
Exert Azog to make him strength +3 and damage +1. If he wins this skirmish, you may spot X Dwarves in the dead pile to add X doubts; the Free Peoples player may exert X Dwarves to prevent that.


You Sit Here In These Vast Halls [Smaug Non-culture]
Event - Shadow
Spot Thorin at site 7 or higher to draw a card and add for each ally you spot, each doubt you spot and each character in the dead pile. The Free Peoples player may exhaust Thorin instead.


The "dead allies" idea came to substitute the use of FP conditions to represent subplots and elements that cannot be portrayed as artifacts/possessions. As there aren't FP conditions, the Shadow side hasn't any condition removal (except Smaug, which can discard almost everything), so adding FP conditions would need to be equilibrated with Shadow condition removal, and that's quite difficult if we aim to create small Extension Sets...


The Old Took might bridge the and cultures...

Gerontius Took, The Old Took
Ally • Hobbit • Site 1
Strength: 2  Vitality: 4
Plays to your dead pile. While in your dead pile, Gerontius Took's text remains active.
At the start of the fellowship phase, you may exert Gandalf to take a event from your discard pile into hand, or exert Bilbo to take a event from your discard pile into hand.

[-Enola-]

This new pack based on the dead pile is a good idea, but I will not developped it now.
I have to finish all the other packs before .

Tell me what you think about these templates: I change the Decipher logo at the bottom of the card and
- Deck X for the deck number X
- Pack fwith a letter for the packs FP
- Swa (or Bea) for the packs swarm or beatdown
- a sword for Gandalf ot Bilbo
- I will make "Sites" and "Events" then.

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Test/Dale_character.png
http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Test/Elf_character.png
http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Test/Gandalf_character.png
http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Test/Moria_event.png

Tell me if the number X for Deck X is large enough to be read when players have to sort the cards .

[Cw0rk]

I think than S1 would be better than Swa A, and you can have B1 for beatdown.

[-Enola-]

Ok, I will also change the "Event" and "Site" for "FP 2+" : Free Peoples for 2 players and more.

[-Enola-]

After a lot of work, you can finally print all the cards in high quality for 4 players and more here:

http://www.printerstudio.com/sell/sell product shop.aspx?designer=A28636B8378343BEFA27F6E3D451C7A59784744CF9FD7D13

Main decks 1 & 2

Main decks 3 & 4

All FP packs + FP events/sites for 4 players

Shadow cards for 4 players + Bilbo & Gandalf


It's a bit expensive but you have a 40% reduction with this coupon until the 31st March : LUCKY40%.

[Cw0rk]

So in order to have the full game I would have to purchase all 4 items here only once?

http://www.printerstudio.com/sell/sell_product_shop.aspx?designer=A28636B8378343BEFA27F6E3D451C7A59784744CF9FD7D13

[-Enola-]

Exactly, you have to purchase all 4 items only once.

You will have 4 decks for 4 players.
You will shuffle the Booster deck with
80 Shadow cards + 56 FP events/sites + 2*10 FP cards from 2 random FP packs
So a total of 156 cards=4*3*13 cards

For 4 players, each player will receive during the draft 3 successive boosters of 13 cards. You can then start the classic draft and then a tournament .

[Durin's Heir]

Perhaps it will require a rulebook (mostly due to the Draft format, and followers). Seems great my fellow! Cheers!

As far as I know, The Battle of the Five Armies will be releases as DVD/Blue Ray in 3 days. Some card images like Ravenhill might benefit from that.

I should have said this before , but each card might have its unique card number. That would make easier the addition of this Set to Gemp.

Thank you again Enola for the honour of working with you in this .

[-Enola-]

I forgot to put all the updates here. These images are now printed.

Update 16/03/2015 http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

Ravenhill
New image.

• Black Arrow   
Strength +1.
Archery: Exert Bard and discard this possession to wound a minion twice. If that minion is Smaug, wound it again.

• Thrór's Map
Fellowship or Regroup: Exert bearer or discard this possession to play the fellowship's next site (replacing opponent's site if necessary).
Heal a companion if you play a mountain site.

• Gandalf, Friend of Thorin   
Skirmish: Discard Gandalf to wound each minion skirmishing him.

He gives me courage
Spot Gandalf to remove a doubt (or 2 doubts, if you exert Gandalf and a Wise ally).

A Wizard Is Never Late
New image
Play Gandalf or an ally (except a Dwarf) from your draw deck or discard pile.

The One Ring
Resistance +1.

Goblin Footman
When you play this minion, you may play a possession from your discard pile on your minion.

Orkish Aggressor   
New name : Orkish Sneak -> Orkish Aggressor

[Durin's Heir]

I'm sorry for the long absence, I've been both busy and a bit sick. Those changes look great sir!

- Ravenhill: The new picture is much better, not only in resolution but also in the overall view of the location.

Röac and Dain also need to change their images, and perhaps the Emeralds of Girion and the Iron-forged Weapon might benefit from that. Not necessarily change the film frame but the resolution quality, with the newly released Blue Ray/DVD. And if you want to totally change Röac's image there are great pictures of him in flight at 45:12 (flying to Iron Hills) and from 1:07:02 to 1:07:08 (arriving Erebor).

- Black Arrow: Good change, Bard with a little help from Kili or Dawn Take You All can get rid of Smaug... for a while only.

- The One Ring: This is my favourite change my friend. Your version of The One can now be plentifully differentiated from ATAR. And Bilbo can reach Frodo's normal resistance with The One and Burglar's Contract. Great! 

- He gives me courage: Another good change here. The stronger effect is both more versatile and higher in cost.

- A Wizard Is Never Late: Now is more versatile, that's a good thing. But reduces the emphasis on Wizards... Works even if your only wizard is dead, and that's a good thing from a gameplay point of view.

- Goblin Footman: Makes much more sense to not give a simple Goblin the skill to replay artifacts (and the Shadow Arkenstone is quite strong -and too expensive to discard- to be so easily replayed). But that makes the Ring of Thrór can't be replayed from discard (an "one-shot only" card), except you have in play 2 or more copies of Darkness Wrapped in Shadows (very unstable & unlikely) AND Gandalf cannot be spotted (even more unlikely) to retrieve both Sauron and the Ring...

The problem with that "use once and destroy" Ring of Thrór is that both cards are needed to make Sauron fight. And that's a sad thing, 'cause making him fight is a good thing to the Shadow player and sometimes to the FP player too (he/she has the chance to kill/exhaust him with Thorin or another tank fighter)...

All in all, I support the change in the Goblin Footman. But I also believe we must find a way to make Sauron fight more often. It would be a shame if he didn't show his "nameless, faceless, formless" face more often to the Company...


As said above, the changes look great.

[-Enola-]

Ok it's great you like all the changes on the tested and now printed cards .

Do you have a link for the HD movie ?

We have not tested the new Shadows yet. It will come soon.
The cards of the new Shadows can be still changed.

[Cw0rk]

I was thinking about something. If you want more people to play the game, you should try to make two balanced "tutorial decks" that could be use to teach new players. Otherwise, it may be quite hard for new players who have never played LOTR TCG to come in, know which card to draft and build a deck to play your Hobbit Draft Game.

You could also make the main deck card list 30-30, or suggest new players to use the main deck card list and remove 5 FP cards of their choice to make it 25-25 for a first game.

[Durin's Heir]

Cw0rk's suggestion: Quite clever! I'd add to that simpler "tutorial" deck a small rulebook, just like Decipher's starter decks had one. That will be much needed if a new player doesn't have the guidance of a knowledgable LOTR TCG player to learn.

I believe the second version of your idea -leveling the FP/Shadow to 1:1- is much simpler than creating a whole new deck or two, and that allows the players who bought the current Main Deck and Booster Packs to use what they got. And also I believe it's much easier to add 5 Shadow cards than removing 5 to the FP.

So if we are going to add 5 cards to the Shadow in order to make a "tutorial deck", balance is the goal here. And second to that, there is representativity of functions.

1. Without any reinforcement from drafted Shadow cards, minions are too weak for a Beatdown shadow (except only for Smaug), while they aren't enough in numbers for an efficient Swarm. Corruption and grind aren't options. So those 5 cards must point towards one or another of those goals.

2. All card mechanisms can be used with those 30 FP and 25 Shadow cards comprising the Main Deck, EXCEPT for possession playing (Goblin Footman) and possession discarding (Nori). So those 5 additional Shadow cards should provide some possessions.

Connecting those dots, Shadow possessions can help to lead that Shadow to either a Beatdown or a Swarm orientation.

We might create some new cards to fill those 5 slots and I'd love to help in that task (I'd bow towards something like the Orc Scimitar to exchange twilight for strength), but then those new cards wouldn't have any use in non-tutorial games. So we must use what's available in the current Swarm and Beatdown Booster packs. Therefore, we have several Wargs and the Goblin Scimitar to choose. In my opinion, 3x possessions at least to match those 4x Goblin Footman.

Hope this helps.


@ Enola: There are some points to correct in the new Shadows, mostly in the Swarm packs but some details too in the Nazgul pack. So I'm glad they can still be changed.

[-Enola-]

The 30 FP-25 Shadow cards in the main deck are due to the ratio FP/Shadow cards in all the boosters during the draft.

But we can simply fill these 5 cards by copies of other cards in the main deck (Yazneg+Narzug+Host of Thousands+Orkish Marauder+Hatred Rekindled). Possessions have to be drafted in order to not have an auto-include Goblin Footman.

Ok for a small rulebook .

[Durin's Heir]

Ok for a small rulebook .

I'm glad you liked the idea of a rulebook. I hope can help you in that task.

The 30 FP-25 Shadow cards in the main deck are due to the ratio FP/Shadow cards in all the boosters during the draft.

But we can simply fill these 5 cards by copies of other cards in the main deck (Yazneg+Narzug+Host of Thousands+Orkish Marauder+Hatred Rekindled). Possessions have to be drafted in order to not have an auto-include Goblin Footman.

Hmmm, that might be a possibility. But if a new player purchased ONLY 2 main decks and the Booster deck needed for a 2-players match, where would those 5 additional cards come?

I believe those 5 cards added to make 2 "tutorial decks" should come instead from the Booster deck (which won't be drafted during tutorial matches), otherwise players will lack those additional copies of main deck cards and will have to purchase an additional main deck to have them.

And the lack of Shadow possessions makes the text in both Nori and Goblin Footman useless, so adding some possessions might help in that learning phase.

The Booster deck contains 4x Goblin Scimitar but those must be distributed amongst 2 players, so no more than 2x may be added to that tutorial deck. Same with 4x Warg. 3x Threatening Warg and 3x War Warg can be distributed as only 1x to each player. So a Booster deck for 2 tutorial decks will have a maximum of 6 copies of possessions to choose: 2x Scimitar, 2x Warg, 1x War Warg and 1x Threatening Warg.

Nonetheless, any other Shadow card from the Boosters may be part of those 5 additions for the tutorial deck: minions, conditions, events. But must be cards that accomplish the teaching goal of the tutorial.

[-Enola-]

Not sure about some tutorial decks, they must be bigger than 30-30 otherwise players will have no card at site 6 or 7.

Maybe 2 decklists of 40-40 cards with cards from Boosters could be a good solution :
- one supplementary copy of each FP event (10 cards)
- a full set of Wargs or Trolls (15 cards)

[Durin's Heir]

Hmmm, that's right, as Hatred Rekindled makes the deck run out very quickly.

The supplementary FP events is a very good answer, as it comes from the Booster deck and there's no need of any additional card to be bought.

For only 2 players, there is only 1 Troll Pack and only 1 Wargs Pack. So a random choice can be a natural answer. Just like the versions of Bilbo and Gandalf are chosen randomly. And both packs have possessions to learn how they behave.

There it is. 40 cards per side.

[-Enola-]

I prefer two well constructed decks so the players can handle simply the game.

[Cw0rk]

Not sure about some tutorial decks, they must be bigger than 30-30 otherwise players will have no card at site 6 or 7.

If I remember correctly, there was a rule with that if you played with starter decks, you could shuffle back your discard pile if you ran out of cards. So no need to make it bigger than 30-30. I think that regular starter decks are 25-25 actually.

[Durin's Heir]

Cw0rk is totally right! There was such rule. And yes, starters were around 25 cards per side, if I remember well they had a total of 60 cards including sitepath, ringbearer and ring (11 cards), so the remaining 49 were distributed among FP and Shadow (24/25)...

Anyway, it's much easier to add 5 cards to the Shadow side (30/30) than to remove 5 to the FP (25/25). But it's true too that adding 5 cards to the Shadow side is much easier than to add 15 to the Shadow and 10 to the FP (40/40). So the goal is now much simpler.

Thank you Cw0rk!

[-Enola-]

With only the cards from the main deck, an introducing game isn't very insteresting.

I prefer a good strategic game for the players to test all FP events (2x in the deck now) and a competitive Shadow (Trolls or Wargs) rather than a too simple game.

In LOTR LCG, there are some recommended decklists to start the game. It could be the same way here :
1x Main Deck + 1x extra copy of each FP event + 1x list of 15 Shadow cards (Trolls or Wargs)

Moreover, with Wargs and Trolls, all cards from the main deck have utility.

[Durin's Heir]

It seems perfect to me that each deck has a respective full set of 15 Shadow cards of a specific culture. That should do it. And as you said, both Packs give full utility to the cards of Main Deck (Nori and Goblin Footman).

[-Enola-]

All the new changes are here:
http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Boosters2.html

Hope you like the new cards .

We will test them soon.

[-Enola-]

You can download the HD cards here:

HD cards

[-Enola-]

Extension for the Hobbit Draft Game: The Clouds Burst.
- 5 new Shadow cards in the main deck: 2x Fimbul + 2x Not At Home + 1x Host of Thousands.
- 12 new cards in each supplementary pack.
- Swarm Pack 2 and Beatdown Pack 2.
- All Bilbo have changed.
- Gandalf, FoT and Gandalf, LoD have changed.

[Durin's Heir]

This thread was started 2 exact years ago...
and against all odds, the project still draws breath! 
  

Cheers, my friend Enola!

[-Enola-]

Thanks! HAPPY BIRTHDAY TOO!!!

Your help was precious during these 2 years.

[-Enola-]

Extension for the Hobbit Draft Game: The Gathering of the Clouds.
- Swarm Pack 3 and Beatdown Pack 3.
- New pictures for all Esgaroth cards, Fimbul, Gloin and Underground Lake.
- Gandalf, FoT has changed.

[-Enola-]

Extension for the Hobbit Draft Game: The Last Packs
- Balin Pack, Blue Mountains Pack, Rivendell Pack, Travellers Pack
- Many errata

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/LastPacks.html

[-Enola-]

After 4 years, the game is now complete.

I want to thank Durin's Heir for his contribution to the game. This game would have never been so good without you .

Thanks!