Hobbit Draft Game

[Durin's Heir]

For Fortifications, be careful there is no FP conditions in the main game, so no condition discard for the Shadow player.

Then I will have to add condition discarding to the Shadow side. No problem about it.

As for the fortifications gameplay, I think they should have a big effect in a specific site ("Skirmish: At site 7 or 8, transfer this to a minion/companion..."), and in other sites just something like "Fellowship: Discard this card to draw a card"...

I never liked the idea of transferring fortified levels of Minas Tirith at sites 7 to 9, far away from Minas Tirith. It makes no sense. And don't want to replicate that mistake here.

Anyway, here fortifications take place at the end of the sitepath: sites 7, 8 and 9.

Also, some of those fortifications might be transferred to a Dwarf instead of a minion fighting that Dwarf ("Skirmish: At site 8 or 9, transfer this from support area to a Dwarf. Discard this card at the regroup phase" or so). Just as Shadow followers are here transferred to companions instead of minions.

The great battle at the Forges of Erebor may be depicted by means of fortification cards.

You can also make some cards which give you actions during the draft phase, like taking two cards rather than just one .

I hadn't thought about that possibility. That looks great!
In my opinion, it should be added to weaker cards instead of the stronger ones... we don't want a player choosing the Oakenshield and another card at the same time. Events and conditions mostly. Or maybe Fili and Kili, Dwalin and Balin...

It's only for companions and allies. But I can make it more explicitly in the text.

That's right. I will make a version for dwarves too, for companions and followers but not allies.

The use of a race for followers can be useful anyway... Look at this site:

The Prancing Pony
Site 1
When the fellowship moves from this site, each player may play a Dwarf follower or Man follower from his or her draw deck.

That way, prior to the maneuver phase, Shadow player may play Squint or Bill Ferny Sr, while FP player may play Barney Butterbur or Bombur... Then at maneuver phase those can be used.

[-Enola-]

Then I will have to add condition discarding to the Shadow side. No problem about it.

As for the fortifications gameplay, I think they should have a big effect in a specific site ("Skirimish: At site 7 or 8, transfer this to a minion/companion..."), and in other sites just something like "Fellowship: Discard this card to draw a card"...

I never liked the idea of transferring fortified levels of Minas Tirith at sites 7 to 9, far away from Minas Tirith. It makes no sense. And don't want to replicate that mistake here.

Anyway, here fortifications take place at the end of the sitepath: sites 7, 8 and 9.

Also, some of those fortifications might be transferred to a Dwarf instead of a minion fighting that Dwarf ("Skirimish: At site 8 or 9, transfer this from support area to a Dwarf. Discard this card at the regroup phase" or so). Just as Shadow followers are here transferred to companions instead of minions.

The great battle at the Forges of Erebor may be depicted by means of fortification cards.

Yes, you're idea is probably better than the Knights conditions in TTT and ROTK.
Ok if you add some Shadow condition discard, but these cards need to be in a good quantity to avoid negative play experience.
This great battle could be really well done in a specific extension.

About drafting action.... In my opinion, it should be added to weaker cards instead of the stronger ones...

Yes, the draft procedure will be much more dynamic with such improvements. But it's not a need only a suggestion.

That's right. I will make a version for dwarves too, for companions and followers but not allies.

The use of a race for followers can be useful anyway... Look at this site:

The Prancing Pony
Site 1
When the fellowship moves from this site, each player may play a Dwarf follower or Man follower from his or her draw deck.

That way, prior to the maneuver phase, Shadow player may play Squint or Bill Ferny Sr, while FP player may play Barney Butterbur or Bombur... Then at maneuver phase those can be used.

Yes sure, but about Barliman and Bill, they are only in LOTR, we will just focus on the Hobbit book and movies for the extensions. No?

[Durin's Heir]

Yes, 1 FP : 1 Shadow is great for a second booster deck. I made 3/5 of FP cards in main deck and 2/5 of FP cards in the Boosters deck. The draft is more about choosing his Shadow side and preparing the metagame for the FP side.

Ok for the extensions about thematic decks. Don't know how many cards you want to make but be careful to make a number of cards multiple of 4 (I build all the games for 4 players, you take twice the quantities if you want to play with 8 players).

The sitepath might be a bit large. The rest should be 1 FP : 1 Shadow. I'll try to make each Extension Booster deck have a total of 144 cards, just like your Booster deck.


The Booster deck for "The Desolation of Smaug" will include things present in the first 2 movies, but will exclude things corresponding to the last film:
- Thorin as King Under the Mountain
- versions of Fili and Kili protecting Thorin
- Armaments of Erebor (including the Mithril-Coat)
- fortifications
- the White Council fighting Sauron
- Dain Ironfoot and the Dwarves of the Iron Hills
- Thranduil and Bard's armies (as FP)
- Azog's army, with Bats and Olog-hai...


There are many sites not yet included, and the possibilities for site 5 are worrying me a bit.
In geographical order:
The Carrock, Beorn's House, Mirkwood, Old Forest Road, Enchanted River, Dungeons of the Woodland Realm, Cellars of the King, and The Forest River. Total: 8. Those in bold were included by you. That leaves 6 new versions of Site 5...

Unlike possible sites 4, each of those sites is a very different place and each plays its part in the story. My favourites are The Carrock, Enchanted River and Dungeons of the Woodland Realm, and I know there is no chance of working on each of those 6.

The Carrock
Site 5  Shadow Number 7
"River. When the fellowship moves to The Carrock, wound each minion twice and discard Gandalf."

Warg riders and Trolls may survive...

Enchanted River
Site 5  Shadow Number 7
"River. Forest. When the fellowship moves to Enchanted River, the Free Peoples player must discard each follower or exert 3 companions."

Dungeons of the Woodland Realm
Site 5  Shadow Number 6
"Underground. Forest. When the fellowship moves to Dungeons of the Woodland Realm, discard each weapon borne by a Dwarf."

Those 2 latter don't discard Gandalf... but they strike really hard against dwarves. Leader of the Company should have some counters at site 5. Those don't attempt to discard him, thus may be considered as relative counters to him.

[Durin's Heir]

Yes sure, but about Barliman and Bill, they are only in LOTR, we will just focus on the Hobbit book and movies for the extensions. No?

I'm referring to the 2nd film, at the start. Tolkien wrote about a meeting of Gandy and Thorin at The Prancing Pony, that's canonical. And those characters I said aren't canonical but Jackson's creations: Barney Butterbur is the Innkeeper (Barliman's father actually), while Bill Ferny Sr (the guy with hair) and Squint (the bald one) are mercenaries sent by Azog to kill Thorin... (respectively, the father of Bill Ferny and Squint-Eyed Southerner).
I want to include them as followers: and [Gundabad]. Even Albert Dreary (Jackson's cameo) appears in that scene...

Yes, you're idea is probably better than the Knights conditions in TTT and ROTK.
Ok if you add some Shadow condition discard, but these cards need to be in a good quantity to avoid negative play experience.
This great battle could be really well done in a specific extension.

Negative play experience. An euphemism for King block fortifications. Totally agree. There will be plenty of condition removal presence for the Shadow side...

The battle between the Company and Smaug can be depicted using events and fortifications in the FP side, and events and conditions on the Dragon's one. You made Shadow skirmish events usable by any minion, I want to replicate that, except a given event should be stronger with a specific culture or character. Smaug, for example...

Yes, the draft procedure will be much more dynamic with such improvements. But it's not a need only a suggestion.

A good suggestion. Powerful cards (rare-like) tend to use most of the card space, while weaker ones (commons and uncommons) leave much space often. That extra space can be used with "Draft:" wording, and lore text too...

[Durin's Heir]

Update 20/11/2014

Three new Bilbo!! At the beginnning of the draft, players will now choose randomly and independently among 4 different Bilbo and 4 different Gandalf.
• Bilbo, Collector of Treasures   
• Bilbo, Master in Riddles   
• Bilbo, Reliable Companion

I also make a lot of changes after our first playtest last thursday.   
For example, the Spider culture is fully readjusted.

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

Spiders look strong but not OP. Caught in Webs doest what it should: strength reduction and movement nullification (assignment blockage). Great!

I like those new versions of Bilbo. Collector of Treasures looks very appealing, while Master in Riddles is a killer. I fear that version can kill Smaug easily: retain your hand when moving from 7 to 8, and discard it to make Smaug strength -16... If it were -1 to both Gollum and Smaug, by discarding the whole hand Smaug would be strength 9, and if Kili wounds him, Thorin with Orcrist and Bombur will kill him without effort. I'd put a limit to that ability, -3 or -4.

Reliable Companion looks as Gimli, Unbidden Guest. I agree with the double exertion (to prevent an abuse of it), but should give +2 instead of +1...

Those Gandalfs seem more equilibrated now. Leader of Dwarves might even cost 2 instead of 1, as Thorin has a reduction that doesn't depend anymore on spotting 2 dwarves. The new picture of Thorin looks much better!

What happened to Smaug's maneuver ability? Was it too powerful?

[-Enola-]

I like those new versions of Bilbo. Collector of Treasures looks very appealing, while Master in Riddles is a killer. I fear that version can kill Smaug easily: retain your hand when moving from 7 to 8, and discard it to make Smaug strength -16... If it were -1 to both Gollum and Smaug, by discarding the whole hand Smaug would be strength 9, and if Kili wounds him, Thorin with Orcrist and Bombur will kill him without effort. I'd put a limit to that ability, -3 or -4.

Reliable Companion looks as Gimli, Unbidden Guest. I agree with the double exertion (to prevent an abuse of it), but should give +2 instead of +1...

All Bilbo must be equilibrated with the first one, Expert Burglar. So their abilities must be very occasionnal.
I think the +1 is just a way to get out of a bad situation.
Collector of Treasures, the FP player doesn't win often against a unique minion), and the effect is not OP.
For the Master in Riddles, Smaug can still win his skirmish with only one skirmish boost event and a discarded FP hand.

Those Gandalfs seem more equilibrated now. Leader of Dwarves might even cost 2 instead of 1, as Thorin has a reduction that doesn't depend anymore on spotting 2 dwarves. The new picture of Thorin looks much better!

What happened to Smaug's maneuver ability? Was it too powerful?

The Smaug's ability was too useless during games, we decided to remove it and make a crowd-control minion.

Yes, the Leader of Dwarves is hard to balance with the other ones. It's the only Gandalf who can't search the right companion for the right match-up. All depends on the way the player draws his cards.
I don't know if Gandalf+Thorin+2 little Dwarves or Gandalf+Thorin+1 Dwarf (cost 3), or in the case of Gandalf cost is 2 Gandalf+Thorin+1 little Dwarf, what is the best way to be equilibrated with the other Gandalf ?

[-Enola-]

I'm referring to the 2nd film, at the start. Tolkien wrote about a meeting of Gandy and Thorin at The Prancing Pony, that's canonical. And those characters I said aren't canonical but Jackson's creations: Barney Butterbur is the Innkeeper (Barliman's father actually), while Bill Ferny Sr (the guy with hair) and Squint (the bald one) are mercenaries sent by Azog to kill Thorin... (respectively, the father of Bill Ferny and Squint-Eyed Southerner).
I want to include them as followers: and [Gundabad]. Even Albert Dreary (Jackson's cameo) appears in that scene...

Yes I know, it was just to be much more focus on the Bilbo's adventure, but ok for including them in the extension.

[-Enola-]

The sitepath might be a bit large. The rest should be 1 FP : 1 Shadow. I'll try to make each Extension Booster deck have a total of 144 cards, just like your Booster deck.

The extension booster deck is there to replace the first booster deck or to add new boosters. Because drafting 6 boosters packs will take a long time and if there is an additional extension, it will become very long. Maybe only 1 booster pack per extension ? So 48 cards ?
Moreover, it will need a lot of playtest with 144 cards .

[Durin's Heir]

... Barney Butterbur is the Innkeeper (Barliman's father actually), while Bill Ferny Sr (the guy with hair) and Squint (the bald one) are mercenaries sent by Azog to kill Thorin...
I want to include them as followers: and [Gundabad]. Even Albert Dreary (Jackson's cameo) appears in that scene...

Yes I know, it was just to be much more focus on the Bilbo's adventure, but ok for including them in the extension.

That's actually the start of Bilbo's adventure, the first drawing of the conspiracy against Smaug. As The Prancing Pony would be site 1, don't think it'd do any harm...
There is another canonical meeting after this at Thorin's Halls in the Blue Mounatins, but Jackson didn't have the rights to include it in the films (just as the names of Alatar and Pallando).

All Bilbo must be equilibrated with the first one, Expert Burglar. So their abilities must be very occasionnal.
I think the +1 is just a way to get out of a bad situation.
Collector of Treasures, the FP player doesn't win often against a unique minion), and the effect is not OP.
For the Master in Riddles, Smaug can still win his skirmish with only one skirmish boost event and a discarded FP hand.

I know, but as it is written Master of Riddles can discard 8 cards to make either Gollum strength -8 or Smaug -16. Smaug will be overwhelmed that way, unless he is reinforeced with 2 or 3 events, depending on Thorin's strength (followers and Orcrist), still losing the first skirmish. And Ori can draw a total of +2 cards... -10 to Gollum or -20 to Smaug.

If it had a limit like TMAYOD, or if it was -1 for both Smaug and Gollum, that problem wouldn't occur.

The Smaug's ability was too useless during games, we decided to remove it and make a crowd-control minion.

I agree it is almost useless against The Master, Radagast, Elrond and Gwaihir only, moreover if Kili is present and fully healed. But that is in respect of the First Set only. In any Extension Set there will be more non- followers and allies to use: Saruman and Galadriel; Thranduil, Legolas, Tauriel and Mirkwood elves; more Eagles, maybe mr. Butterbur...

That maneuver ability might save the day as there might be too many useful allies at the end of the sitepath, and Smaug would discard them for a killing site 9.

Anyway Smaug has enough card space for a special ability, whether is that ally-follower hate or another one we might develop. And if you want more card space, that current twilight reduction text might be reduced to "For each Dwarf, Man and Elf you spot" (FP AND Shadow ones, characters AND followers). That would exclude Eagles, Bilbo and Wizards but Smaug didn't have them in his mind.

Yes, the Leader of Dwarves is hard to balance with the other ones. It's the only Gandalf who can't search the right companion for the right match-up. All depends on the way the player draws his cards.
I don't know if Gandalf+Thorin+2 little Dwarves or Gandalf+Thorin+1 Dwarf (cost 3), or in the case of Gandalf cost is 2 Gandalf+Thorin+1 little Dwarf, what is the best way to be equilibrated with the other Gandalf ?

You are right, as there is only 1 copy of each dwarf and only one drawing mechanism, Ori. Thus you need to start with each Dwarf companion your deck will require to work well... Thorin + either Nori or Dwalin, or Thorin + Gloin + Kili look solid as starting fellowships. Plus Gandalf.
Maybe the downside should be something like "Each time the fellowship moves, add ". That because of the other Gandies will be adding twilight for each dwarf played from draw deck.

Besides, replaying Gandalf after his discarding at Mirkwood/Old Forest Road for only 1 twilight doesn't look good in my opinion... Adding that text would instead make the real cost of replaying him.

[-Enola-]

For Bilbo MiD, his ability is only Free Peoples cards in hand, but I just change it a bit to make it more balanced.
I hope this update answer some of your remarks.

Thank you .


Update 24/11/2014 http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

A wizard is never late
Play Gandalf, Elrond or a ally from your draw deck or discard pile.

• Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves
Each time the fellowship moves, add (1).

• Bilbo, Master in Riddles   
Skirmish: Discard 2 Free Peoples cards from hand to make Gollum strength -2.

• Smaug,   The Golden   
Cost 16
For each Dwarf, Man and Elf you spot, Smaug s twilight cost is -1.
Regroup: Exert Smaug and discard another minion to discard a Free Peoples card (except a companion or Bard).

[Durin's Heir]

The extension booster deck is there to replace the first booster deck or to add new boosters. Because drafting 6 boosters packs will take a long time and if there is an additional extension, it will become very long. Maybe only 1 booster pack per extension ? So 48 cards ?
Moreover, it will need a lot of playtest with 144 cards .

I was eluding this question as I didn't know what to answer...
I think each Extension should have only one booster pack, and each booster should have 72 cards instead of 144. That, because I see really difficult to replace the Booster deck you made and thus those new ones should be supported by the first.

An idea to give more balance to lucky/unlucky booster pulls, and to reduce the need of huge Extension booster decks, might be to give each player an Extension Main deck of 24 fixed cards or so: 3 or 4 Sites, 9 or 10 FP, 10 Shadow, and 1x The Key to Erebor.

For Bilbo MiD, his ability is only Free Peoples cards in hand, but I just change it a bit to make it more balanced.
I hope this update answer some of your remarks.

Thank you .


Update 24/11/2014 http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

A wizard is never late
Play Gandalf, Elrond or a ally from your draw deck or discard pile.

• Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves
Each time the fellowship moves, add (1).

• Bilbo, Master in Riddles   
Skirmish: Discard 2 Free Peoples cards from hand to make Gollum strength -2 (or Smaug strength -3).

• Smaug,   The Golden   
Cost 16
For each Dwarf, Man and Elf you spot, Smaug s twilight cost is -1.
Regroup: Exert Smaug and discard another minion to discard a Free Peoples card (except a companion or Bard).

I like them! Smaug's ability may wreck almost anything we create in the Extension Sets, and can be reduced or neglected by Bard. Bilbo's skill is powerful but limited to a considerable cost. Gandalf has the same twilight dynamics for himself than Aragorn, Strider.

Anyway, here in your forum post Bilbo, MiR includes Smaug as target, while the card in your site doesn't.

What do you think about Bilbo, Reliable Companion giving strength +2 instead of +1? I like that double exertion as it will prevent its abuse, but +1 strength seems too little in my opinion.

[-Enola-]

Thank you very much .
It was a copy/paste error for the Bilbo, MiR.
The abilites of all Bilbo have to be used very few times, only in emergency cases. I think I will let Bilbo, RC with the +1.

Update 04/12/2014 http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Updates.html

• Dain Ironfoot   
New picture.

• Sting   
Each time Bilbo wins a skirmish in which you played a event, you may discard a condition.

• Gandalf, The Grey Wizard
Each time you play a event, you may wound a minion.
Fellowship: Add 2 doubts to play a possession or a Dwarf companion from your draw deck or discard pile.

• Gandalf, Friend of Thorin   
Strength 7.
Skirmish: Discard Gandalf to wound each minion skirmishing him.

• Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves
Cost 2. No twilight add by moving.

• Thorin, Oakenshield
Cost 2.

• Nori, Of the Blue Mountains   
Maneuver: Exert Nori twice and discard a follower to discard a possession.

• Gwaihir   
Skirmish: Transfer Gwaihir to your support area to cancel a skirmish involving bearer and a mounted Orc.

• The Arkenstone   
Cost 1.

If He Loses
You may exert Gollum twice to play this event from your discard pile.

[Durin's Heir]

My friend Enola, I like those changes, Sting's text looks great. But there are 2 things to say about them:

Dain doesn't come as the King Under the Mountain (he picks that title only after Thorin, Fili and Kili were dead), but as the Lord of the Iron Hills, or a Sturdy Veteran, or a Loyal Kinsman or so.

The other point is the use of Gwaihir in underground sites, just maybe he should say "Transfer Gwaihir to your support area (except at an underground site)... and a mounted minion". Just maybe.


I've been working a bit on the Wraith culture. Take a look and give me your opinion...

[10] •Sauron, The Necromancer
Minion - Maia
Strength: 15  Vitality: 5  Site: 5
Fierce. Damage +1. Wizard and Elf allies may participate in skirmishes. Discard Sauron if roaming.
Assignment: Assign Sauron to skirmish Elrond, Galadriel or a Wizard. The Free Peoples player may discard both characters.
"There is no light, Wizard, that can defeat darkness!"

•The Witch King, Summoned Sorcerer
Minion - Nazgul
Strength: 14  Vitality: 3  Site: 5
Fierce. Wizard and Elf allies may participate in skirmishes.
Each time a minion is assigned to skirmish a Dwarf or a Man, that minion gains damage +1 until the regroup phase.

Witchie's text is there to represent the need Gandalf saw to make the Council force the Necromancer out and thus allow Thorin's Company a chance to reach the Mountain (he knew The Wise could fight them but not the Dwarves). And Necromancer's ability is quite obvious... Btw, Galadriel won't have less than 7 strength so don't worry about overwhelmings.

The text "Wizard and Elf allies may participate in skirmishes" is there to focus the clash of Dol Guldur against The White Council. It should be universal to any minion version of a Nazgul or Sauron (another version of Sauron might be a follower). While Wizards & Co. fight Sauron, Thorin & Co. must face Spiders and Mirkwood Elves... Legolas and Thranduil may only be transferred to dwarves.


We Grow In Number
Condition - Support Area
Shadow: Remove 2 doubts to play a or non-unique minion from your discard pile. Its twilight cost is -2.
Shadow: If you cannot spot 2 doubts, discard a minion from hand to add a doubt.

We Grow In Strength
Condition - Support Area
Skirmish: Spot a minion and either exert it or remove 2 doubts to make another minion strength +1.
Skirmish: Spot another card or 2 doubts and remove to make a minion strength +1.


Those 2 are conditions for every Shadow culture, as I know cultures will have few cards and therefore almost each card must work well as a standalone. The latter recycles the text of Strength Born of Fear, plus another use of spare doubts and vitality...

I haven't done anything yet to relate Spiders to Wraiths, but I will.

[Durin's Heir]

Maybe something like this...

The Greenwood is Sick [Spider]
Event - Skirmish
Exert a Spider or a minion to discard a Free Peoples condition.
"Witchcraft. Oh, but it is. A dark and powerful magic."

At skirmish, as minions will have to pass though maneuver events and archery wounds.

As another interaction, The Necromancer and maybe even the Witch King may destroy any dwarf "Caught in Webs"...

[-Enola-]

Dain doesn't come as the King Under the Mountain (he picks that title only after Thorin, Fili and Kili were dead), but as the Lord of the Iron Hills, or a Sturdy Veteran, or a Loyal Kinsman or so.

Thank you, I changed the subtitle of Dain.

The other point is the use of Gwaihir in underground sites, just maybe he should say "Transfer Gwaihir to your support area (except at an underground site)... and a mounted minion". Just maybe.

I think I will let Gwaihir with his text. I want to keep it as an attractive and simple card. Gwaihir can wait at the exit of the underground and then take the dwarves .



Your idea of allowing Wizard and Elf allies participate to skirmish is great. I don't know if the cards are balanced now, I need to see all the Shadow. How many copies of each card would you like to put in the extension booster deck ?
It's still an extension booster deck with 48 cards ?