Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game

[Durin's Heir]

But Braga can burn all Orcs in a single row for +3 str each, without having the FP player anything to do but watch. If Braga is splashed in a Swarm shadow that can play many Orcs with few initial cards and moderate twilight, like Sauron Swarm or Azog's Army, you can burn 5 or 6 Orcs for a total of 24 or 27, overwhelming 2 companions that dare to stand in from of him. I'm thinking about extreme scenarios, which happen seldom but still are a possibility.

Playing Watchful Orc + Azog Commander + 1 Footman in that order from hand or discard in Shadow phase for 11, then get a Vicious Warg on Azog for 14 total, then you'll have 3 Orcs, Azog at vitality 4 and . Then play Braga. At Maneuver, play 3 Assaulting Goblins from discard for a total of 6 well protected Orcs to feed Braga. Whatever are the assignments, and whoever's skirmish starts first, Braga will be able to spend all 6 Orcs for a +18 str bonus, which ALSO lasts during the 2 skirmishes. And the FP fighters will watch and stand frustrated, thinking how they could have beheaded some of those Orcs if they had given the chance...

Such combo can be as powerful as Stragglers. Costs more, but lasts more also. It NEEDS a way to limit it... which is what Decipher forgot with Galadriel LR, Cirdan, Stragglers, Corsairs, Gil Galad HKotN...

Moreover, needs a way to allow the FP fighters to have a word in all those Orcs' fates!

[-Enola-]

No difference with the Wicked Spider and Orcs swarm...

[Durin's Heir]

It's different from Wicked Spider, as the only other Swarm pack that can be paired with the Spider pack is the Goblin pack; they cannot colaborate with Azog's Army.

And remember the thread that Phallen opened, showing how easy is to overwhelm site after site with Spider Nest, Old Tomnody and some Orcs. That'll have to be fixed with restrictions, additions and/or prohibitions (since the cards' gametext simply won't be changed). So a minion from the Spider pack is not a good role model, and ALSO they cannot join forces with Azog's maneuver exert-to-play-a-cheap-Orc-for-absolutely-no-twilight-which-also-protects-from-directed-wounds.

Finally, Braga is part of a Beatdown Shadow, so comparing with mechanics like Rise of The Necromancer os Wicked Spider isn't accurate, I believe.

[-Enola-]

The swarm is the Shadow who brings the maximum number of Orcs in play. Braga is fine like this, +2 strength wasn't enough.

You're wrong, the problem that Phallen opened was mainly on Spider Nest....

[Durin's Heir]

The swarm is the Shadow who brings the maximum number of Orcs in play. Braga is fine like this, +2 strength wasn't enough.

Yes, but Moria Orcs need to stack winning Orcs on Goblin Swarms. While Azog's Army needs less cards in hand, less possessions and doesn't play from stacked. That's the key difference: playing over and over again from discard pile, without fearing to lose important resources by discarding Orcs that can win their fights if left to do so.

You're wrong, the problem that Phallen opened was mainly on Spider Nest....

I know Phallen talked about abusing Spider Nest and not Wicked Spider. But both are part of the same Shadow, and both are examples of mechanics that behave well (balanced) when the card pool is limited (Draft game), but can be totally OP when that card pool and the maximum copies of each is widened (constructed).

[-Enola-]

I'm only working on the draft game not the constructed. It will be too complicated to playtest this. Braga remains with a +3 pump, or it will be too weak in draft game.

[Durin's Heir]

+3 is totally ok. But must unable the FP player to do anything? You can change it to +4 str even, but the FP player must have some degree of maneuver.

"Skirmish: Place an Orc in play beneath your draw deck to make a Man strength +3 (until the regroup phase if that Orc is not assigned to skirmish)."

That way, if there are Orcs assigned your pumps won't last 'till regroup. If those Orcs fought and survived, the pump obtained by using them will last until regroup.

I'm starting to believe the Spear shouldn't add damage/exert companions, but instead reduce a Dwarf companion's strength. That way Braga or Laketown Patrol's vitality can help Orcs to win, an if that happens Braga will use them so Men can win.

[-Enola-]

I don't like it  . Dawn take you All is a great answer to this Shadow. Shadow is not OP at all for the moment and need a lot of twilight tokens.

[-Enola-]

I make another quick test with the Shadow, it needs more ways to place minions beneath the deck. I think it's fine now.

The Boulder Rock costs only 1. It's the better way if you want a Troll bear it one day.

I change Elf-Guards for [Gundabad] Orcs. I don't know if I have to change all [Mirkwood] cards for [Gundabad] Orcs.... Spiders and Bolg Shadow will help this Shadow in Swarm Packs 1 & 2, but the Sauron Shadow will also help well the Mirkwood Shadow with the Swarm Pack 3. And I don't want to put [Gundabad] or Orcs on [Mirkwood] cards, just Orcs or [Gundabad] Orcs.

[-Enola-]

We made the last test today. I will print the current version of the cards tomorrow.

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/ShadowPack3.html

[Durin's Heir]

I'm sorry for this new hiatus.

Everything seems fine in those last card modifications, I wouldn't change anything (and I know that's now impossible). Elf-Guards was the only [Mirkwood] card that needed to be weaker, and enforcing it to [Gundabad] Orcs seems the perfect tweak (they don't flood the board with Orcs easily).

Well, I'd only change one thing in that Extension, and that's the name. I think "The Gathering of the Clouds" is too similar to the previous "The Clouds Burst". And that chapter was about the Siege of Erebor, while the themes of these new Shadow packs are more related to the journey towards Erebor and the strange creatures, the remote folks and the lurking perils they found while travelling. It's much more about the road (those places are all in Region 2!), so I'd rename it to "The Road Goes Ever On" (like Bilbo's song in the Hobbit and LOTR books). Another possibility is "The Quest of Erebor".

----------------

Now we can focus on the new Supplementary packs... I had this answer the day after your request, but we were too busy with the Mirkwood shadow.

- The War of the Dwarves and Orcs: The card is too long for the draft. Try to make card with 3-4 card lines maximum.

It can fit well in only 4 lines, if we change " character(S)" to "Dwarf/Dwarves" and cut some words. But that requires using a policy we were always avoiding: although is totally impossible to exert/wound a Dwarf follower according to the rules, some players might be confused to believe a Hobbit or Wizard bearing a Dwarf follower may be exerted/wounded for that purpose...

The War of the Dwarves and Orcs
Event • Assignment
Wound X Dwarves to exert a minion X times. (That minion's) Its owner may exert a Dwarf and if (he or she does) so, you may exert a minion; repeat this until a player does not exert a character.
"...there was death and cruel deeds... as they hunted for Azog in every den under mountain."

So it'd be necessary to explain new players explicitly that "followers are not characters, and thus cannot exert or take wounds." If not, the only way of reducing the text to 4 lines is to cut the cost to something very short (and ridiculous) like "Add 2 doubts" to "exhaust a minion". That or removing the Death They Cried chain exertion (but I believe it has a great potential).


- Balin's Armor: I like the idea of healing Balin to use more his skill, but dislike the concept of an armor special for Balin. Besides, Alcarin's immortality text will make it NPE versus almost every Shadow (except only those that can safely remove all Orcs in play: Nazguls, Laketown and Giants). So here goes my version:

Armor of Erebor
Possession • Armor
Strength +1
Bearer must be a character.
The minion archery total is -1.
Each time bearer exerts, you may discard 3 cards from hand (or 2 cards during the fellowship phase) to heal him.
"So my grandfather's halls became full of armour and jewels and carvings and cups..."

The idea is to use self-exerting companions without having to self-exhaust. That makes it only a str +1 toy for Thorin, but other Dwarves will also boost their skills: Glóin, Dwalin, Kili and Fili. And above them all, Balin recycling key events during fellowship phase. Helps also with some aid costs, events and the special abilities of other support cards.

It's based on the first version of the Dwarven Cloak (which discarded 2 cards to prevent an exertion wound token), but since the Balin Pack will need those cards in hand (either as powerful tricks, or as fuel for the Chariot and followers) and will also cycle a lot, discarding non- ones seems important to diversify the resources (and cycle even more btw). Ori will provide hand extension.


Tell me what you think.

[-Enola-]

I wait for the Hobbit Draft Game Championship. We will see then which card must be improved or not.

At the moment, we need to focus on the improvement of these cards:
- Lore of Imladris
- Noble Intentions (fighting Bilbo)
- To Me! O My Kinsfolk!
- Nori (not necessary, the companion has good stats)
- Ori (and Balin)
- some events
- more Trolls
- the combo Sauron and an Orc damage +1 is very strong
- maybe another Gollum minion

[Durin's Heir]

Alright. We can work on those subjects then. I got some ideas by now to post, will be working on the rest in the following days (or weeks, if things don't go as expected):


- Ori (and Balin): We already got some cards for Balin (Brothers in Arms, Flash-flames, the Armor), but Ori is much more complicated. His main problem is the lack of an important effect to counter risks (heal, prevent wounds / overwhelming, counter conditions), so players don't want to waste one of those scarce 3 safe slots for followers on him (once better followers arrive). If there was a way to create an artificial safe slot for Ori, then everyone would want to keep him in play. A good card to bear such text is obviously Ori's Slingshot:

•Ori's Slingshot

Possession • Support Area
Shadow players cannot spot Ori for the total number of followers.
Fellowship: Play Ori from your draw deck.
Skirmish: Discard a card from hand to make a minion strength -1.

Somewhat the opposite of Merry / Pippin ITBOH. The underlined parts are the important ones, the rest is merely an example. To enhance also Balin, it might heal Balin each time Ori is attached to him (replacing the Skirmish skill probably).


- Sauron + a dmg+1 Orc: That's only with Fimbul, or with the or "Swarm pack 2" versions of Azog/Bolg. But agree, that combo is like Saruman SotE + Saruman's Staff: a strong support-companions killer. Some card might counter either Sauron's skill or his vitality, and thus block him (and any combo including him). I made a event that can do both:

Instigated Dispute

Event • Response
If a minion uses an action of its game text, exert Gandalf to cancel its effect.
That minion's owner must either exert it or prevent it from using actions of its game text until the regroup phase.
"That I never did! It was you!"

So this taxes Sauron if he dares to uses his skill: he either won't use that skill anymore, or will have only 1 spare viality remaining for it (or 2 with the Ring of Thrór). This event counters both special abilities and "when you play this" / "each time" actions, so can block William/Cantea from discarding a weapon, Bert/Lemenya from discarding allies, Orkish Marauder from exhausting a Dwarf (if you got 4+ followers), Fimbul from playing a minion... it's quite versatile.

Can block the Watchful Orc from adding a site keyword and thus disrupt whole chains, but since that action is at Shadow phase this card's cost will often allow another such Orc to be played, which brings some balance.

To counter Sauron (and any other vitality-based post-archery minion), we also have The War of the Dwarves and Orcs / Flash-flames.


- Another minion: All the options I can see are the dying Orkish Aggressor, a bat in Goblin-town (although those are bad pictures, except perhaps at 48fps), or another version of Gollum. If we broaden it to possessions, then Gollum's boat, a small throwing rock or some bones. The dying Goblin might work as Sudden Strike here:

Moribund Goblin
Minion • Orc
Strength 4  Vitality 1  Site 4
Shadow: Discard this minion to take into your hand a Shadow card from your draw deck (or 2 Shadow cards if at least one is a card).
"...there was no reason to go that way - unless the Great Goblin sent them... for fish from the lake, and sometimes neither goblin nor fish came back."

A mightier version of Fimbul: easier to play and can search for any card.


That's all by now.

[Durin's Heir]

- Noble Intentions (fighting Bilbo): I'm not sure of what you exactly mean here. Do you want 1) new standalone fighting cards that can work in absence of Noble Intentions, or 2) new cards that improve the effect of Noble Intentions? The point is if you want Bilbo to fight more at the expense of replacing Noble Intentions (since moderate standalone pumps can complement Noble Intentions, but will replace it instead if are considerably stronger). Assuming you want a balance between both, I made this possession for him (probably for the Blue Mountains pack):


•Dwarven Handkerchief

Possession
Bearer must be Bilbo.
Each time Bilbo wins a skirmish, you may heal a companion.
Skirmish: Play a event to make Bilbo strength +1 (or discard a event from hand to make him strength +2).
"But home is now behind you. The world is ahead."

So this makes Noble Intentions a much stronger pump (total str+4 and can also heal the exertion), and can convert any other event into a smaller str +2 pump. And since he can heal Dwarves a la Legolas AoM, he gets a good incentive to fight often. You can even play a Dwarf pump to make him str +1 merely, hoping to win and then trigger Sting (which won't happen if you discard the event). All in all, Bilbo becomes a much better fighter but also Noble Intentions is NOT replaced by the new pumps.


In the sense of #1, you can change slightly the text of Also A Took to make it also viable if he starts the skirmish (not replacing a Dwarf), it'd be like Noble Intentions (but instead of exerting would cost ):

Also A Took
Event • Skirmish
Make Bilbo strength +3. If he is not assigned to a skirmish, have him replace a companion in a skirmish and make he may take no more than 1 wound during that skirmish.
"It never ceases to amaze me. The courage of Hobbits."

Might even be the opposite: make him unable to take more than 1 wound in any case, and if replaces a Dwarf in skirmish, also strength +3. That way won't compete with Noble Intentions, while providing a useful resource in his own skirmishes (and a way to trigger Sting). But that way won't make Bilbo a considerably better fighter.


Another aspect that makes Bilbo fight less than his Dwarf fellows is the lack of damage bonus: if he happens to win his fight, most of the times the losing minion should pursue the Company if they move again that turn. (Unless Orcrist finishes it.)

[-Enola-]

- Ori: the 3 followers limit was made to avoid too long maneuver phase. This limit must still be on Ori, I just want to improve his usefulness. The current version of Ori's Slingshot seems great:

3x •Ori's Slingshot
Possession • Ranged Weapon
Bearer must be a companion.
Archery: Discard a follower to wound a minion once (or twice if the follower is Ori).
Ori's weapon often hurted the focus of his foes.

Maybe another card using Ori (and Balin)?

- Sauron + a dmg+1 Orc: You're right, it happens during the last Hobbit Draft Game Championship (Beatdown Pack 2 with both packs with Azog and Bolg).

The term "action of its game text" seems generator of many questions from players.

Instigated Dispute
Event • Maneuver
Exert Gandalf to remove the game text from a minion until the regroup phase.
"That I never did! It was you!"

- Sorry I meant another Gollum version.

- Noble Intentions (fighting Bilbo): It's the 2) .

•Dwarven Handkerchief
Possession
Bearer must be Bilbo.
Each time Bilbo wins a skirmish, you may heal a companion.
Skirmish: Play a event to make Bilbo strength +1 (or discard a event from hand to make him strength +2).
"But home is now behind you. The world is ahead."

Great card!! I'll try to think of another possession. A handkerchief seems ridiculous for such a possession.