Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game

[-Enola-]

You're right. Maybe this:

Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves
Cost : 1, Strength : 7, Vitality 4
Each Dwarf companion is twilight cost -1.
Each time you play a event, you may add a doubt to draw 2 cards.
Fellowship: Add to play a artifact from your draw deck or discard pile.
"You do know my name... I am Gandalf."

[Durin's Heir]

I dislike it. The drawing skill seems too costly and superfluous (all but 1 event are played after Fellowship phase). The artifact playing part seems better, but twilight isn't scarce in the Hobbit Game (one of its best aspects!) so won't solve a choke problem that doesn't exist, AND also adding for a Glamdring/Staff (or for Narya) that won't do anything to counter a swarm is too steep a cost: change it to only (I'd prefer "exert Gandalf, but simply there's no room). Also, he's not Wise!

There's a wounding Gandalf, but still there's no healing Wizard (in films he heals Thorin at the Carrock and Thráin at Dol Guldur; in the book it's said he "had once rendered a service to the eagles and healed their lord from an arrow-wound"). A side effect of that skill might be some card drawing (since this one shares the same limitation of Friend of Thorin)...

•Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves
Companion • Wizard
Strength 7  Vitality 4
Wise.
Each Dwarf companion is twilight cost -1.
Fellowship: Add to play a artifact from your draw deck or discard pile.
Regroup: Discard a event from hand to heal a character and draw a card.
"You do know my name... I am Gandalf."


The healing would synergize with self-exerting companions (Glóin, Balin, even Nori). But being at Regroup, would be too late to save a defender that couldn't survive by his/her own means.

Also, the healing of allies is really underdeveloped: only Elrond (or another Wise ally) can heal well and often; it's very hard for some (Bard with the Emeralds, Thranduil with a 2nd copy) while for all others is impossible (Legolas, Tauriel and the Elf Army), which limits the deckbuilding versatility in Gemp. So this would come to help ally-intensive decks.

[Durin's Heir]

To not let time pass by without any progress in the other topics...


- Vilya: I like this card, turns Lore of Imladris into a pump. But I believe it should have a "limit -2 per minion", or -4 at the very least, because otherwise Ori + a single LoI will easily reduce Smaug to mere str 11 (equal to Thorin + Orcrist + Óin). Sauron is 4 points weaker than Smaug, so this is worrisome without limits (like happened with Cirdan, Arwen QoEaM, Fifth Level and all that OP trash...).

With the current wording, won't work with Elrond's regroup skill; it triggers, but dissapears at the end of that same phase. So to fix that, you can specifying "until the next regroup phase."

•Vilya
Artifact • Ring
Vitality +1
Bearer must be Elrond.
Gandalf cannot be discarded.
Each time you heal a companion, make a minion strength -2 until the next regroup phase (limit -4 per minion).
"But Sauron could not discover them, for they were given into the hands of the Wise..."

The gametext fits into 4 lines, so you can have Hadafang's "Gandalf cannot be discarded" here instead (since the Three Rings gave power to preserve, that skill should fit better here than with a weapon). That'd make some room for "Elrond is damage +1", or for some longer Assignment text in Hadafang.


- Sauron: I dislike that Black Lord text here, a cost reduction is great for the Witch's but Sauron is cheap enough already. The doubt adding effect and its trigger are OK, but the cost of revealing himself from hand forces him to hide in hand while others do the dirty job, which is sad for the most feared being in all Middle-Earth. Unlike Black Lord, who can be revealed and later played in the same turn, so it's better to simply ditch that revealing cost and keep the effect.

Also, he should be a beatdown monster so he needs the classic "Fierce. Damage +1." (I know you don't want a change in attributes, and those are NOT attributes.) He also needs a skill to allow him to counter Vilya's strength reduction (otherwise 1x mere Lore of Imladris will bring him to mere str 9, weaker than Elrond + Hadafang!). Something like this:

•Sauron, Gathering All Rings to His Hand
Minion • Maia
Strength 13  Vitality 4  Site 5
Fierce. Damage +1.
Sauron is strength +2 for each Ring artifact you can spot.
Each time an or character loses a skirmish., you may reveal this card from hand to add a doubt.
"Soon he will be too strong for you... for he rules the Nine, and of the Seven he has recovered three."


- Hadafang: With such potential to summon Elrond himself, should cost . Also, if you still don't have the required 4 doubts, there should be a desperate built-in way to add them.

•Hadafang
Artifact • Hand Weapon
Strength +2
Bearer must be Elrond.
Gandalf cannot be discarded He is damage +1.
Assignment: Add 2 (or spot 4) doubts and exert Elrond to make him participate in skirmishes until the regroup phase.
"In the hour that Isildur took the Ring... this doom was wrought, that Sauron should return."

If you move "Gandalf cannot be discarded" to Vilya as suggested above, this weapon might give Elrond damage +1.

[-Enola-]

A healing Gandalf will make Lore of Imladris weaker . Another proposition

•Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves
Companion • Wizard
Strength 7  Vitality 4
Wise.
Any game text....
Fellowship: Remove from the game 2 events in your discard pile to draw 3 cards. (2 lines)
"You do know my name... I am Gandalf."

[Dictionary]

Also, the healing of allies is really underdeveloped: only Elrond (or another Wise ally) can heal well and often; it's very hard for some (Bard with the Emeralds, Thranduil with a 2nd copy) while for all others is impossible (Legolas, Tauriel and the Elf Army), which limits the deckbuilding versatility in Gemp. So this would come to help ally-intensive decks.

I've been playing an ally themed deck on Gemp recently. I really like how they contribute to the game without being part of the fellowship. Between their game texts, home sites, Skilful Negotiator and The Evil Becomes Stronger, a player can have them getting involved quite a lot. The Evil Becomes Stronger and Take up Arms also give them nice strength bonuses.

I would like to reiterate this point of Durin's Heir's though; lack of healing makes it hard to keep them sustainable. Once exhausted they are much harder to use effectively, and Narzug can of course hit them quite hard prior to combat (Or force Tauriel to bounce him, but then he'll come out next turn regardless). Would it be possible to append healing to a card to give players more options? I would suggest Gandalf, but with the title "Leader of Dwarves" it doesn't really fit. Maybe Thranduil?

[-Enola-]

I can't change Thranduil, he is in a supplementary pack.

[Creator]

Was this set tested without the 1, 2, and 3x card restrictions? I get that it was designed for a draft style of play, I find the restrictions to be arbitrary when building a deck and it really hampers strategic choices. I'd love to see a version of this be playable with 4x copies of all legal cards.

[-Enola-]

Was this set tested without the 1, 2, and 3x card restrictions? I get that it was designed for a draft style of play, I find the restrictions to be arbitrary when building a deck and it really hampers strategic choices. I'd love to see a version of this be playable with 4x copies of all legal cards.

I didn't test the game with 4x copies of all legal cards. But the main deck needs only one copy of each companion or there will be problem with some cards (ex: Elven Jails).

If you have 4x Dwarven Axe or 4x Acorn, it will be too strong. The game was fully tested for a draft format.

[Creator]

I don't think the Dwarven Axes are overpowered at 4x. Acorn might be, but there are ways around that. Particularly for the condition discard ability, perhaps add a shadow card that can prevent condition discarding or force the Freeps player to pay an additional cost in order to do so?

I guess the point I'm making is this is an amazing set and with just a little tweaking, could fit better into Gemp's traditional non-Draft format, which is where I think the bulk of players are experiencing this set.

[-Enola-]

I can't add cards to the current format , I don't want cards for the constructed and cards for the draft game. We can only work on copies.

[Durin's Heir]

Particularly for the condition discard ability, perhaps add a shadow card that can prevent condition discarding or force the Freeps player to pay an additional cost in order to do so?

There's Bert to counter condition discarding. So he can already counter the Acorn, as long as he survives 'till regroup and there's an ally in play.

I can't change Thranduil, he is in a supplementary pack.

Why not? It'd be a small change in a card that interacts mostly with its own pack... if you were going to playtest extensively, such change would require much less playtesting than a change in one version of Gandalf (since he interacts with everything, and thus every possible combo would need an empirical test).

A simple addition, like "At the start of your turn, you may add to heal an ally whose home site is 5." (2 lines, exactly what he has free.) is not a small cost (before Shadow phase!), and would cover that lack of healing for Mirkwood Elves.

Mirkwood Elves have not a single way to heal, unlike Esgaroth and White Council allies, and Radagast. Even Dain Ironfoot has some degree of healing, and he and the Iron Hills Army are supposed to help more at site 9 than anywhere else (at that stage, healing allies matter little if any).

-----------

A healing Gandalf will make Lore of Imladris weaker .

Hmmm, yeah, Lore of Imladris needs enhancement, not hindering. So perhaps this will aim better:

•Gandalf, Leader of Dwarves
Companion • Wizard
Strength 7  Vitality 4
Wise.
Each Dwarf companion is twilight cost -1.
Each time a Dwarf heals, you may draw a card.
Fellowship: Add to play a artifact from your draw deck or discard pile.
"You do know my name... I am Gandalf."

So healing becomes drawing! And thus Lore of Imladris and Óin will draw at Maneuver, and Elrond at Regroup. But most surprisingly, sanctuaries become drawing machines (exempt of the Rule of 4)! That means a huge lot of drawing, which can also be added to Ori + Balin. To set up much sooner both your FP and your Shadow, and assemble killer Shadow hands later (you wanted both more participateion of Ori, and a Gandalf that could also help the Shadow side)!

The Fellowship skill is already known: pay in total to get Glamdring/Staff from the very start, or to recover it if gets discarded. At site 5+, you need to replay Gandalf with Radagast (or with AWINL), plus for Glamdring: or seems a good cost for a fully healed str 9 Wizard (and makes site 6 much more interesting, since it's often a choke site otherwise).


Please tell me what you think about it.

[-Enola-]

I don't want to change any card which is already printed (except Gandalf, due to its major impact in game and it's only a 1x). Many players own the cards, and I don't want to change them or make cards only for the constructed game.

You said before that drawing after fellowship phase was useless, so it will be good only in sanctuaries and not for Lore of Imladris...

[Creator]

I don't want to change any card which is already printed ...

I'm not sure I understand why you can't change cards or add new ones. What do you mean players "own the cards"? Are people buying these from you? Because if all a card update means is people have to download and re-print a few cards, I hardly see that as a real hurdle.

Also, Gemp is the main venue people are playing this set, and the last real haven for LOTRTCG which is a dead game everywhere else. I feel like it would serve the community best to focus on making this a standard deck-building set as opposed to draft only.

Building a deck for this set in Gemp is really unintuitive due to all the card restrictions. At the very minimum, remove the restrictions in Gemp and let people test it with a typical 4x card limit on all but 1 or 2 cards.

[-Enola-]

Several players own physical gaming Hobbit Draft Game cards (and those are not cheap cards, but LOTR TCG quality). The complete game is worth 300 euros (only due to cards creation).

We made many tests for the draft game, and it's seems well balanced. We need more feedbacks on online games to make changes.

[Phallen Cassidy]

The game was doing fine before it was on Gemp. I am of the (probably unpopular) opinion that it's okay if The Hobbit can't work in Constructed. It can become a draft game with the technique MarcinS or Enola have outlined and be a league-only format. It is the responsibility of Gemp players to make The Hobbit work on Gemp, not the game's creators' responsibility to change the fundamental gameplay. If the cards are balanced for The Hobbit Draft, there's no reason to change them even if they're wildly overpowered in constructed. That's the whole point of restricting card quantities so much - to find that balance. There's no reason to change any of the cards if they work in draft, we've got to continue balancing the cards as they are. Maybe that means more copies of many cards and fewer copies of some, but that's probably a debate for another post.