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April 11, 2015, 08:23:39 AM
Reply #165

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #165 on: April 11, 2015, 08:23:39 AM »
Take the time you need my fellow! It gives me more chances of refining the ideas to propose. ;)

In respect of that "Thematic Pack" idea, I'm working on a bunch of FP/Shadow cards as an example of what might be an "Azanulbizar Pack" with (dead) Thrór and Thórin on one side, against "Azog, King of Moria" and survivors of the War of Dwarves and Orcs in the other side. Soon! I think you will like it.
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April 15, 2015, 01:36:48 AM
Reply #166

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #166 on: April 15, 2015, 01:36:48 AM »
I can propose these new updates:

- • Ulaire Attea, Revived: Cost (6). [Wraith] minion. Nazgûl. Site 5. Strength 12, Vitality 3. Fierce. Skirmish: Return an Orc to your hand to make a [Wraith] minion strength +2 (or +3 at a forest).

- • Ulaire Enquea, Revived: Cost (6). [Wraith] minion. Nazgûl. Site 5. Strength 11, Vitality 4. Fierce.
Each time an Orc returns into your hand, you may exert Ulaire Enquea to make the Free Peoples player exert a companion.

- • Ulaire Cantea, Revived: Cost (5). [Wraith] minion. Nazgûl. Site 5. Strength 10, Vitality 3. Fierce.
Each time an Orc returns into your hand, you may exert Ulaire Cantea to exert an ally.

- Twisted Gold of Dragon: Cost (0). [No culture] Condition • Support area. Smaug's twilight cost is -2. If you can spot Smaug, Man allies may participate in archery fire and skirmishes. Shadow: Discard 3 Orcs from play to make each site on the adventure path gain mountain until the regroup phase. Play Smaug from your draw deck or discard pile.

- Jail is very strong, so it has to be a specific card for [Sauron] culture, there also will be other Sauron cards in the supplementary pack.


For the other cards, I would like to have all the five Armies in all the cards (maybe with the supplementary packs).
So, ok for a Bolg archer troop:

- Bolg
At the start of the assignment phase, you may exert an unwounded companion for each other [Gundabad] archer you spot (limit 3).
Shadow: Exert Bolg and discard an Orc to play a [Gundabad] archer from your discard pile.

- Fifth Army : new name ?
Strength 7

We will test Hidden attack as it is now, it's just a lower version of Whistling Death.


We also have to change in the [Moria] Assailants Shadow:

- Vicious Warg :
Bearer must be an Orc.
Bearer is fierce.

I don't like the "non-fierce" version. Maybe something different?

- Dark Bats : new lore text
To play, exert a [Moria] Orc. The twilight cost of your Assailants is -1. At the start of the regroup phase, you may take into hand a [Moria] minion from your discard pile.

- Stone Giants : Ok for changing this card and put the Stone Giants in supplemntary pack (see below). New card (maybe not a possession) ? We need a bit of corruption (like Fat Spider in the other swarm pack).


For your ideas of thematic packs, I propose to change the FP supplementary packs in supplementary packs which contain Shadow and FP cards (it will be much more simple). They will have then 16 cards in each pack (14 cards per booster) or 22 cards in each pack (15 cards per booster) :

- "Quest of Erebor Pack": Thorin vs Goblin Army.

- "Azanulbizar Pack": Thrain vs Goblin conditions & Events + Goblin Archery.

- "Riddles Pack": Bilbo vs Gollum + Stone Giants.

- "Dol Guldur Pack": The White Council vs Sauron & The Nazgul.

- "Wizard Pack": Radagast vs Wargs.

- "Battle of the Five Armies Pack": Dain vs Assaillants.

- "Esgaroth Pack": Esgaroth allies vs Smaug.

- "Mirkwood Pack": Elf vs Spiders.

I don't know where I could put the Troll, or maybe some Trolls in the Battle of the Five Armies pack.
« Last Edit: April 16, 2015, 11:57:16 PM by -Enola- »
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April 15, 2015, 02:49:47 AM
Reply #167

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #167 on: April 15, 2015, 02:49:47 AM »
I also add all the cards of the new shadows on this page :

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Boosters.html
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April 15, 2015, 04:12:46 AM
Reply #168

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #168 on: April 15, 2015, 04:12:46 AM »
Ok for the changes to the Nazgul. The previous versions were clearly overpowered, now are more balanced. :up:

For Smaug, OK too for that orthographic change. But thinking a bit more, perhaps it might be also changed from "until the regroup phase" to "until the end of the turn", just like Smaug's Awakening lasts until the end of the turn. It won't matter too much anyway. :up:

- Dark Bats: The version you propose says "your Assailants". Does that keyword remain? Other than that, the lore text was the only problem in my opinion.

- Fifth Army: This one should be titled "the Goblin Army", in contrast to "the Wolves Army" of Azog's pack. What do you think about making each army unique?


There are still too many single cards to examine. We have little discrepancies in respect of Azog's Pack, so focusing first on that pack will make the whole task much easier and faster.
There are some important points there:

- Azog giving +2 strength instead of -1 twilight.
- the Vicious Warg making bearer fierce (and exerting its foe only in the non-fierce skirmish).
- The Wolves Army earning for each "bleeding prey" not only twilight addition, but also strength. And being unique.
- some minor problems: card picture (Goblin Vanguard), lore text (Demolition Troll).

And we agreed on removing the Stone Giants to include them in another pack. If you want to add doubts, though you said "maybe not a possession", the old Goblin Spear adds a doubt when killing a companion. I wanted to add this version of the Goblin Spear to Azog's Moria Army in the Azanulbizar Pack (I'll post it soon, perhaps today), it has the addition of giving some use to doubts:

[1] Goblin Spear [Moria]   (reprint... sort of!)
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +2
Bearer must be an Orc or a Troll.
If bearer kills a Free Peoples character in a skirmish, add 1 doubt.
Skirmish: Remove a doubt to make bearer strength +1 (limit +3).
"Both sides were pitiless, and there was death and cruel deeds by dark and by light."

So you kill a character to add a doubt (like Decipher's version), and then remove doubts to kill again. ;)


Those are minor details in comparison to the problem of Bolg's Archers. I agree totally that both Azog's Army and Bolg's Army must be present in that 2nd Swarm Pack, and that way we would have the 5 armies in the "Basic set". But I disagree with the "specialized archers" theme, the pictures, most game texts and even some card titles of the current Bolg's pack. And it's clearly overpowered.

So I think we should focus first on the little details of Azog's Pack, to then make a Bolg's Army pack with a stronger resemblance to the army of the book/movie.



There is still plenty of points to refer. More to come in the next days...

EDIT: The Vicious Warg should be bearable by any Orc, instead of only [Moria] Orcs. Then the assignment ability might say "Assignment: If bearer is a [Moria] Orc, exert it to..." to reduce the abuse of that ability.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 09:09:14 PM by Durin's Heir »
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April 15, 2015, 03:34:18 PM
Reply #169

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #169 on: April 15, 2015, 03:34:18 PM »
This is an example of what I mean with the concept of the Thematic Packs. These cards are only a prototype, and I know many will be removed due to lack of card slots. Card slots aren't even assigned yet, these are only concepts and events portrayed in single cards. But I hope this exercise is enough to show what the idea should look like...

"The Battle of Azanulbizar" Thematic Pack:

- Shadow side: [Moria] Beatdown Orcs.

The concept of the shadow is to turn a [Moria] Swarm into a Beatdown under Azog's command, taking advantage from dead (and exhausted) Dwarves, direct assignments, doubt addition and removal, strength pumps, and even dead Orcs piled up in the battlefield.

I must say that the concept of the "Battle of Azanulbizar" is mostly made from Tolkien's writings (which are much more extensive and deep-developed that Jackson's version), though it contains important parts based on PJ's work, like Thorin (instead of Dain) faces Azog (and maiming his arm instead of his whole head)...

   Minions:
- •Azog, King of Moria
- Dimrill Dale Veteran
- Dimrill Dale Survivor

   Possessions:
- •Azog's Mace
- Goblin Spear

   Conditions:
- •Bitter Vow
- Thirst for Vengeance


[4]Azog, King of Moria [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength: 9  Vitality: 3  Site: 4
Damage +1.
While you cannot spot more minions than companions, Orcs are strength +1 for each Dwarf in the dead pile and are fierce.
Skirmish: Discard an Orc not assigned to a skirmish to make an Orc strength +2.
"'I wrote it! I killed him! I am the Master!'"

The benefit is only in case there aren't more Orcs than companions; i.e., your aren't swarming. You can play a Swarm and still get benefits from Azog's passive skill, in case some Orcs are killed or you discard them with his active skill.

[4] Dimrill Dale Veteran [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength 7  Vitality 3  Site 4
Damage +1.
This minion is strength +1 for each Dwarf which is exhausted (or in the dead pile).
Shadow: Play an Orc to draw a card or to heal an Orc.
"So began the Battle of Azanulbizar, at the memory of which the Orcs still shudder and the Dwarves weep."

All "veteran" Orcs are damage +1, thus Azog's text makes them very powerful by turning them fierce. And they get and additional strength +1 benefit from dead Dwarves, and another +1 for each exhasuted Dwarf.

[3] Dimrill Dale Survivor [Moria]
Minion • Orc
Strength 7  Vitality 2  Site 4
Damage +1.
This minion is strength +1 for each Dwarf which is exhausted (or in the dead pile).
Skirmish: Remove a doubt to make an Orc strength +1.
"...And those that could escape from them were flying South, shrieking as they ran."

This one uses doubts to win skirmishes. And considering they are damage +1 and that Goblin Spear and Bitter Vow add doubts when a Dwarf is killed, the cycle can go ever on.


[2]Azog's Mace [Moria]
Strength +2
Possession • Hand Weapon
Bearer must be an Orc.
Bearer is fierce.
Skirmish: If bearer is Azog, exert him to discard a possession borne by a character skirmishing him. The Free Peoples player may exert that character or add a doubt to prevent that.

As we saw in AUJ, Azog threw their foes' weaponry before killing them. The FP player can protect those possession but the cost might be much better for you than just discarding those: doubts or exertions.

[1] Goblin Spear [Moria]
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +2
Bearer must be an Orc or a Troll.
If bearer kills a Free Peoples character in a skirmish, add 1 doubt.
Skirmish: Remove a doubt to make bearer strength +1 (limit +3).
"Both sides were pitiless, and there was death and cruel deeds by dark and by light."

You kill a Dwarf to add doubts... Then you remove doubts to win and hopefully kill another Dwarf.


[2]Bitter Vow [Moria]
Condition • Support Area
Each time a Dwarf is killed, add a doubt.
Assignment: Exert a [Moria] Orc to assign it to skirmish an exhausted Dwarf. The Free Peoples player may exert another Dwarf to assign him to skirmish that Orc instead.
"The giant Gundabad Orc had sworn to wipe out the line of Durin. He began by beheading the King..."

A way to kill Dwarves and get doubts out of it. The FP player has an alternative, but one that can grind their Dwarves anyway.

[1] Thirst for Vengeance [Moria]
Condition • Support Area
Each time a [Moria] Orc is killed, you may remove [1] to stack that Orc on this card.
Shadow: Discard 2 cards stacked here to play an Orc from your discard pile.
Skirmish: Discard 2 cards stacked here or remove [3] to make an Orc strength +1.
"...for they resolved now to win the dominion of the North."

If your Goblins get killed (instead of goint into Goblin Swarm), they can still be used to spur hatred to Dwarves or to muster new Goblins to battle.

Those are all the ideas for the Shadow side by now. I owe you all the Dwarven part, today or tomorrow will be posted.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 09:13:56 PM by Durin's Heir »
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April 16, 2015, 01:41:17 AM
Reply #170

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #170 on: April 16, 2015, 01:41:17 AM »
"The Battle of Azanulbizar" Thematic Pack:

- Free Peoples side: [Dwarven] Veterans.

Let's review the story. Tolkien's version of the story, I mean. Thrór, tired of his exiled living, took one companion called Nár and travelled from Dunland to Moria to see the splendour of his forefathers. There he entered the East Gate but found it was occupied by Orcs, and their leader Azog captured him, tortured him for days and finally beheaded him. He branded his name in Thrór's forehead, in dwarvish runes, so that Nár could read it. Nár's life was spared and Azog used him instead as a messenger, to warn what would happen to other beggars who don't want to wait at the door. Azog threw him a little bag of worthless coins, as payment for his duty of messenger.

Nár took the tale back to Thráin, and after he wept for long, he sat down in silence. For seven days Thráin kept still and then, full of wrath and grief, sent messengers to the lords of all the other Dwarven Houses, to avenge the wrongs done to their High King and heir of the Eldest of their race.

After three years they mustered a great Host, and assaulted each Orkish stronghold and city in the Misty Mountains, looking for Azog. Six bitter and long years later, all surviving Orcs were gathered at Moria under Azog's command. And there begins Peter Jackson's version of the story, which is not a long war but only a single battle.

Other differences are the lack of Iron Hills Dwarves, Náin father of Dáin's duel (and death) with Azog, and Azog's duel with Dáin, in which a little detail was omitted by PJ: his head was sliced off and was set on a stake, with the little bag of coins thrusted in his mouth.


- •Thrór, Overthrown King
- •Nár, Messenger of Ill News
- •Iron Hills Veterans

- •Deathless
- Dwarven Shield

- Burned Dwarves
- Du Bekâr!
- Headbutt
- The Mustering of the Seven Houses

I know that these are too much cards, but I'm only exposing ideas, it's not definitive at all.

These cards try to represent Dwarves as fierce survivors in battle (which is good to counter their [Moria] Beatdown foes, who are strong and destructive). There is some healing and doubt removal, to balance the strong grind and doubt addition mechanisms of Azog's Host.

[4]Thrór, Overthrown King [Dwarven]
Ally • Dwarf • Site 8
Plays to your dead pile. While in your dead pile, Thrór's text remains active.
Each wounded Dwarf is strength +1 (and damage +1 if you can spot an Orc).
"When Thrór came to Moria the Gate was open. Nár begged him to beware, but he... walked proudly in as an heir that returns."

Thror is killed = Dwarves go to war. With WRATH. Those who survive (which includes most of Thorin's Company) end up as fierce veterans who almost can't fear death nor pain...

If you read the previous post, Azog and his veterans take advantage of dead Dwarves, so it has a strong counter.

[2]Nár, Messenger of Ill News [Dwarven]
Follower • Dwarf
Strength +1
Aid - Exert a Dwarf and add [2].
Bearer is damage +1.
Each time you play a [Dwarven] event, you may exert a Dwarf (or return Nár to your support area) to exert a minion.
"Then Nár came up, and found that it was indeed the body of Thrór, but the head was severed and lay face downwards."

Nár's ability here represents the fell deeds of Thráin's Host: they can strain themselves to punish and corner their foes, and will likely do that. But not without a cost.

[4]Iron Hills Veterans [Dwarven]
Ally • Dwarf • Site 9
Strength 8  Vitality 4
Damage +1.
At a battleground or underground site, each Dwarf character is strength +1 for each wounded character in his skirmish.
"With cries of 'Moria!' and 'Dain, Dain!' the Dwarves of the Iron Hills plunged in..."

More survival mode for the Dwarves. The natural limit in one-to-one fights is +2 (if both Dwarf and minion are wounded), but Dwalin (or anyone fighting several foes) might get more.

It is said that most of Dain's troops at the Battle of the Five Armies were veterans of the War of the Dwarves and the Orcs.


[1]Deathless [Dwarven]
Possession • Hand Weapon.
Strength +2
Bearer must be a Dwarf companion.
Bearer is damage +1.
If bearer is Thorin and he kills a minion in a skirmsh, each Dwarf is strength +1 until the regroup phase.
"'Azog the Defiler learned that day that the line of Durin would not be so easily broken.'"

Thorin breaks the enemy ranks, and gives hope and leadership to his folk. It's usable by any Dwarf in the company, but only Thorin wields it as a leader.

[1] Dwarven Shield [Dwarven]
Possession • Shield
Strength +1
Bearer must be a Dwarf.
The minion archery total is -1.
Skirmish: Discard this possession to heal bearer or to play a hand weapon from your discard pile on bearer.
"It is said that Thorin's shield was cloven and he cast it away..."

A dashing shield for melee. This one can be considered a weapon, giving a solution to Shadow archery, lack of healing and the "Boxing Dwarves". Thorin is seen in the last movie with a golden shield of similar shape than those used at Azanulbizar, and effectively he uses it to strike his foes.


[1] Burned Dwarves [Dwarven]
Event • Maneuver
Spot a Dwarf to make him defender +1 until the regroup phase. You may exert 2 Dwarves (or spot a Dwarf in the dead pile) to make each Dwarf strength +1 and damage +1 until the regroup phase.
"'But there was no feast nor song that night, for our dead were beyond the count of grief.'"

Disquiet of Our People. But more towards killing than to philantropic suicide...

[2] Du Bekâr! [Dwarven]
Event • Skirmish
Make a Dwarf at the current site strength +3. If that Dwarf is not assigned to a skirmish, exert him to have him replace another Dwarf (or a Man or a non-Wise Elf at a battleground) in a skirmish.
"'Our forces rallied and drove the Orcs back. And our enemy had been defeated.'"

Thorin's trademark war cry, which means "To the fight!" in neo-Khuzdul. You can either pump a Dwarf in a skirmish, or exchange a Dwarf in a skirmish with another Dwarf but pumped. Should work marvels with Thorin wielding his Deathless.


(0) Headbutt [Dwarven]

Event • Skirmish
Make a Dwarf skirmishing an Orc strength +2. That Orc's owner must discard a card at random from hand.
You may discard 3 cards from hand and exert a Dwarf in a skirmish to play this event from your discard pile.
Axe, fist, head. Everything counts in the battlefield.

This one is a desperate surviving resource. Use it too much and you will run out of draw deck...

[2] The Mustering of the Seven Houses [Dwarven]
Event • Fellowship
Play a [Dwarven] character or a [Dwarven] follower from your draw deck or discard pile.
You may exert a Dwarf to remove a doubt (or spot 4 doubts and exert 2 Dwarves to remove 2 doubts) and draw 2 cards.
"Seven days he sat and said no word. Then he stood up and said: 'This cannot be borne!'"

The subculture needs some doubt removal. Keep in mind this card can add huge lots of twilight, before the Shadow phase.


Well, that's all by now. As said before, this is only a prototype. So what do you think guys?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 09:22:22 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

April 16, 2015, 02:46:17 AM
Reply #171

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #171 on: April 16, 2015, 02:46:17 AM »
Ok for the "The Battle of Azanulbizar" Thematic Pack. I will probably pick some of these cards :).

Ok for the other changes in Smaug, [Wraith] and [Sauron] cultures.

We have to test for the Azog Shadow first.
I think Stone Giants could be replaced by

Earth-eaters : Cost (3). [Moria] Condition • Support area. Shadow: Remove a doubt to play a [Moria] minion from your discard pile at twilight cost -1. Maneuver: Spot 3 [Moria] minions to add a doubt. Discard this condition.

The Bolg Shadow must be a massive wound Shadow, it's a lack in the Shadow strategies. The simple way seems to be an archery Shadow, and the archery phase is unused by the Shadow player :(. But we could make something else.
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April 16, 2015, 04:23:22 PM
Reply #172

dmaz

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #172 on: April 16, 2015, 04:23:22 PM »
My hats off to you Enola, Durin's Heir, and everyone else involved in getting this together.
Though I haven't been able to part of the development thus far, I've been following it all and am really impressed with how tactfully it's been approached and how professional the artwork looks.

If it continues to progress successfully with more draft events, etc, and you are interested, I would be more than willing to attempt helping you mass produce them. I have a great working relationship with several Chinese suppliers that have colleagues in companies that can produce the cards and packs pretty cheap, so the actual production I could take care of pretty easily...just the license would be something new for me to deal with.

In any case, just wanted to let you know I thought it was great, and would be willing to help see it developed in bulk, if that were to ever happen :)

April 17, 2015, 02:05:58 AM
Reply #173

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #173 on: April 17, 2015, 02:05:58 AM »
Thank you for your support dmaz.

I use printerstudio.com to print all the cards, the cards are made in the same quality as LOTR TCG. Unfortunately, due to the license problem, I think this game will never be sold :(.
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April 19, 2015, 04:16:18 PM
Reply #174

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #174 on: April 19, 2015, 04:16:18 PM »
My friend Enola, I'm sorry for this delay. Again I've been busier than usually. :(

We have to test for the Azog Shadow first.
I believe the same. We first give priority to discuss Azog, then Bolg. Then the ideas for the Extension Set. But posting ideas and discussing them are different things, so I will be posting things without expecting to be immediatly discussed, just to keep the ball rolling and save some time while the Shadow Packs get finished.

Ok for the "The Battle of Azanulbizar" Thematic Pack. I will probably pick some of these cards :).
Great! :)

The Bolg Shadow must be a massive wound Shadow, it's a lack in the Shadow strategies. The simple way seems to be an archery Shadow, and the archery phase is unused by the Shadow player :(.

The pack can still be oriented towards wounding or archery, but the problems to solve I've found are the following:

- 1. The pictures, names and themes are mostly regarding Bolg's Hunting Party. So those MUST be changed to another archery subculture, and that subculture must be in accordance to the pictures, names and themes of Bolg's Gundabad Army (AZOG: "Let the Legions come forth!").

In the 2nd film, Bolg leads a group of Orcs but Azog leads another one too (Orcs and Wargs gathering at Dol Guldur) who fight against Gandalf. There are very interesting events regarding both "Thorin vs Bolg" and "Gandalf vs Azog" in that film, like Gandalf telekinetically stopping Azog or destroying a building to make it fall on the pursuing Wargs. So those groups might be portrayed in Extension Sets instead of forcing them into a Swarm Pack meant to only represent the 2 evil armies in the Battle of the Five Armies.

- The Morgul Arrow must be removed from Bolg's Army. And maybe the Orkish Bow too.
- The pictures of Bolg, Orkish Pursuer and Orkish Bow (if remains) must be changed to images from the last film.

- 2. Any massive wounding or exerting Shadow must have a way to prevent those wounds. When Thorin's Company fought their way out of Goblin-town in AUJ, they were shot many arrows but used whatever they could to stop/dodge them, and they never had a shield. Kili used his sword, then they used a Goblin ladder...

In the current stage there is only 1 card that reduces the minion archery (the Mithril Coat in Thorin's Pack), and both healing and wound prevention are VERY limited. To heal the Company there is Elrond, Lore of Imladris and Óin (and Galadriel in the White Council Pack), while wound prevention has only Bofur (and the Oakenshield in Thorin's Pack).

In LOTR TCG, Moria Archery is one of the most powerful themes in both FOTR and Towers Standard. That is considering the FP players have a lot of options to heal their characters or to prevent wounds, which isn't the case here... Therefore, any massive wounding deck must provide ways to prevent those wounds. Otherwise it will be a total MASSACRE from the very start.

"The Free Peoples player may... instead / to prevent this":
- Add a doubt.
- Discard 2 cards from hand.
- Discard a [Dwarven] event fom hand.
- Discard a random card from hand.
- Discard a possession or a follower.
- Make a companion strength -3 until the regroup phase.
- Exert an ally...

And those are ways how Kili can block an arrow with his sword. Like a Jedi ;).

The current version exhausts the fellowship too fast and easily. And the last nail to the coffin is provided by the 2 wounds of Hidden Attack, which doesn't have an instrinsic way to prevent them.

- 3. A massive wounding shadow is by definition a non-skirmish Beatdown shadow. Not a Swarm shadow at all. Just look at Moria Archery and Sauron Grind in FOTR block. They rarely play more minions than companions, except for Tol Brandir at the end (which is a last throw, not the goal of the strategy).

So my point here is that massive wounding is not a compatible goal with swarming. Non-overpowered wounding may be coupled with cheap skirmishers, but a specialized archery shadow meant to cause massive wounds displaces the original goal.


So those are my objections, and lamentably that means that a bunch of cards must be made again. The goal of the strategy must be remade, exchanging mass archery for skirmishers with some archery potential. Swarm should be the goal.

The simple way seems to be an archery Shadow, and the archery phase is unused by the Shadow player :(.
I believe the Specialized Archers theme should be used by either Bolg's Hunters (DoS) or the Goblin-town Archers (AUJ), or perfectly by both in different ways.

But we could make something else.
There is also Regroup Wounding a la [Isengard] Orcs, which is covered here only by the War Warg. Those might be cheap skirmishers, and if they survive the fight, be discarded or exerted to provide wounds. That's a different way of a massive wounding Shadow, which gives the FP player a chance to prevent those wounds by killing or exhausting the Orcs before the Regroup phase. That would make a Swarm shadow which is also a wounding Shadow.

I believe that option solves the problem. And even some of those Regroup-wounding Orcs might be archers. Why not?

I hope this post can help to clarify the problem of Bolg's Pack.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 09:23:05 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

April 20, 2015, 01:24:25 AM
Reply #175

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #175 on: April 20, 2015, 01:24:25 AM »
I think Stone Giants could be replaced by

Earth-eaters : Cost (3). [Moria] Condition • Support area. Shadow: Remove a doubt to play a [Moria] minion from your discard pile at twilight cost -1. Maneuver: Spot 3 [Moria] minions to add a doubt. Discard this condition.
I like the concept of the Earth-eaters. But there are 2 problems in my opinion:

1. You can replay it with Goblin Vanguard over and over again. For an easy corruption. You can add 3 doubts per site with Azog, 3x Goblin Vanguard and 1x Earth-eaters in hand or discard: at the Shadow phase you play Azog and a Vanguard (and then Earth-eaters from discard), and in Maneuver you discard the Earth-eaters to add a doubt, and play with Azog twice a Vanguard to play (and discard) the Earth-eaters again. Or 4 doubts per site if you have 4x Goblin Vanguard and 2x Earth-eaters. So Bilbo gets corrupted pretty easily. And those doubts can be used for an easy swarm too.

2. There are too many ways to replay your [Moria] minions from discard. And too many cost reduction cards also. There is Azog, Dark Bats, Hatred Rekindled, Host of Thousands, site 9... then comes this condition. A bit too much perhaps, swarms will be too easy to assemble.


I would try these changes:

[2] Earth-eaters [Moria]
Condition • Support area
To play, spot 2 [Moria] minions.
Assignment: If you cannot spot more minions than companions, remove a doubt to play a [Moria] minion from your draw deck or discard pile.
Regroup: If you cannot spot 4 doubts, discard this condition to add a doubt.

Those are 7 card lines. Hope you get the idea, I'm too tired to explain it now :(.

But the intentions are to prevent too many minions from being played (a maximum of +1 than companions), play new minions at a crucial stage as assignment (they are protected from archery and maneuver wounding), able you to play them from draw deck, able you to play fierce minions at fierce assignments, prevent it from being discarded and replayed to add doubts too fast (the Goblin Vanguard cycle), eliminate the chance of corruption...

Hope this helps.
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

April 25, 2015, 12:42:52 PM
Reply #176

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #176 on: April 25, 2015, 12:42:52 PM »
I know the focus right now is on Azog and Bolg's Armies, so I won't hope this post will have a response soon.

Here's a couple of humble cards regarding the humble Ori, I'd like to see what you think about them. It's not that I want to make a complete Thematic Pack around the figure of Ori, but these 2 might be included in a pack like the Quest of Erebor, or the Trollshaws, or...


[1] •Ori, Eager for Stories [Dwarven]
Companion • Dwarf
Strength 4  Vitality 3
Each time an event is played, you may draw a card or make Ori strength +1 until the regroup phase (or both if you spot Balin).
Skirmish: Exert another companion to make Ori strength +1.

Strength 4? This guy looks very weak at first sight, useful only to ditch him against the jaws of Smaug or a Warg... but keep on reading and you'll see his huge potential. Not only Dwarven events benefit him, but any event that may occur (as the historian he is).

So you can start him with Balin (or Dwalin, or Nori; and Gandalf Leader of Dwarves too), and draw tons of cards for a quick set up. For each event, including Shadow skirmish events trying to kill him, you can make him stronger and thus he can be really powerful at times. If that fails you can always exert other companions to save him from death, or to defeat a minion.

Balin can recycle events, so with Ori they would make a great synergy.


[1] •Ori's Slighshot [Dwarven]
Possession • Ranged Weapon
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] companion.
Skirmish: Exert bearer or discard a [Dwarven] event from hand to make each Shadow event twilight cost +1 or a minion strength -1 (or both if bearer is Ori, or bears Ori).
Ori's weapon often hurted the focus of his foes.

This is a card designed to mess up with your opponent's actions. Are you afraid of Gollum's If He Loses? Just throw him a little stone with Ori's Slingshot and watch him lose his mind. If twilight is scarce you can prevent a lot of perils to Bilbo and friends. It's cumulative of course, and lasts until the end of the skirmish.

That's all.
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 09:23:32 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

April 26, 2015, 01:01:02 AM
Reply #177

ununtrium

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #177 on: April 26, 2015, 01:01:02 AM »
First of all, I am amazed by all the terrific work you all have put into this worthy successor of LotR TCG. However, I am a bit overwhelmed by the sheer number of updates and cards, and have lost track of things.

I would like to do things properly and have a copy shop make HQ laser colour copies for my friends and I to play with. Which are the cards to start playing with? Which cards are least likely to be updated (You know, it would be a shame to print them and see them change soon after that...)?

Many thanks and please do keep this terrific project running.
I am a Lieutenant Commander on the G.A.B. Saffron team. My trade lists:
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April 27, 2015, 06:44:28 AM
Reply #178

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #178 on: April 27, 2015, 06:44:28 AM »
Thank you for your support :). All cards for 4 players are already done and will not change, you can print them here.

http://www.printerstudio.com/sell/sell_product_shop.aspx?designer=A28636B8378343BEFA27F6E3D451C7A59784744CF9FD7D13


We are working on different Shadows now (printable as an extension after this) and some add-ons for the packs.
Hobbit Draft Game : http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr

April 27, 2015, 06:47:41 AM
Reply #179

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #179 on: April 27, 2015, 06:47:41 AM »
Sorry, I wasn't at home due to vacations ^^.

I change the front page with the new Shadows and add-ons for the supplementary packs.
I put a (C) in front of the new updated cards. Tell me what you think about it.
Hobbit Draft Game : http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr