Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game

[-Enola-]

Shadow Smaug (15 cards):
(C) - 2x • Dragon's Malice : I change it a bit, maybe it's too strong now ? Smaug with Rhudaur can bring this condition soon in the game. We had to playtest it.
(C) - 3x Smaug's Awakening: I change for a discarded minion from hand.
Shadow: Discard a minion from hand to make each site on the adventure path gain mountain until the end of the turn.
(C) - 3x • Wrath of the Dragon: the sentence "Free Peoples artifact or possession in his or her support area" was too complicated. I will keep it like this.
(C) - 3x Dissension: This event is ok now, we have to test it now.


Shadow Azog's Army (20 cards):
- 3x • Azog, Commander of the Wolves Army : He is also the key minion, the Shadow player needs to swarm all fellowship.
(C) - 2x • The Wolves Army : Only 2 copies. I don't want Warg minion card.
(C) - 3x Swarming Goblin : Ok I change it.
(C) - 3x Assaulting Goblin : Same.
(C) - 3x Vicious Warg : Ok for only +1 in vitality.
- (C) 2x Dark Bats : Only 2 copies, and I reduce it to battleground. Also, it will only return minions in hand.
(C) - 2x • Were-worms : The size of the Shadow player's hand will be now take into account.
Shadow: Remove (X) and discard X Shadow cards from hand to take X Orcs from your discard pile into hand. Discard this condition.






Thorin Pack:
(C) - 2x Dwarven Song : Ok, so I reduce it to 7 cards.
Event - Regroup. Exert a companion to reveal the top 7 cards of your draw deck. You may play any possession, artifact and follower revealed. Shuffle your draw deck.
(C) - 3x • The Arkenstone, King's Jewel : During tests, the +2 in strength wasn't really attractive for the Shadow player.
(C) - 2x Goblin Song : Ok for these changes.


Thrain Pack:
(C) - 2× Du Bekâr! : Ok.
Event - Assignment. Spot 2 followers to make a companion defender +1 and strength +X until the regroup phase, where X is the number of followers you can spot.
(C) - 2× • Goblin Reinforcements : It's ok : Ranks Without Number (4U170)


Bilbo Pack:
(C) - 2x • Bilbo's Pony : It was far too long with your text. So it just doesn't work in the underground site.
(C) - 3× Underground Lake : Your version was too complicated, I keep the old one.
(C) - 2x • Stone Giants : We don't really need Troll cards. And Stone Giants are an important part of the story.

White council Pack:
(C) - 2x • Lindir, Elven Minstrel : I think it's balanced now.
Skirmish: Exert Lindir to make a minion strength -1 for each Wise character you spot (limit -3).
(C) - 3x The Great Enemy : Ok.
(C) - 2x Stealth Sorcery : Ok.


Wizard pack:
(C) - 2x Burning Fir Cones : The text is now a bit complicated and focus more on only one big minion (like a Warg)
Gandalf] Event - Maneuver. Spell. Exert Gandalf and spot X followers to wound a minion X times (except Smaug). Then, if the fellowship is not at a forest, discard a follower.
(C) - 3x • Hunting Pack : It's also a card for the Troll culture.
(C) - 2× Crawling Evil : Ok for 2 Spiders.


Dain Pack:
(C) - 2× Battle Ram : Ok.
(C) - 3x War Axe : I change it to manage all the possessions in the pack.
(C) - 2× Savage Warg : More Savage with this. I create a Warg minion. Response: If bearer is killed, this possession becomes a fierce Warg minion until the end of the turn that has 8 strength and 2 vitality, and cannot bear other cards. This card is still a possession.


Esgaroth Pack:
(C) - 2x • Alfrid, Lickspittle : I don't want any Shadow follower. I think he is selfish and cowardly, and try to stop the fellowship, but like Denethor he has to be with his people.
(C) - 3× • Power Struggle : It's ok : Ranks Without Number (4U170)
(C) - 2× Terrifying Legend : Ok.


Mirkwood pack:
(C) - 2× The Evil Becomes Stronger : I change it.
Event - Archery. Spot an ally whose home is site 5 to exert 2 minions. Until the regroup phase, that ally partipates in archery fire and skirmishes.
(C) - 3× • Bolg, Servant of Sauron : I think it's ok now.
 For each character in the dead pile, your Orcs are strength +1 (limit +3).  
(C) - 2× Enchanted River : It's a general condition, not specifically Spider.



Thank you for the time you take to improve this game .

[Durin's Heir]

Thank you for the time you take to improve this game .

It has been an honour and a funny experience. And hundreds or even thousands will have fun with the final product. So I must thank you too .

* Let's start with the cards in which we plainly agree:

- Lindir, Elven Minstrel: Good reasoning, seems equilibrated.
- The Great Enemy:
- Azog, Servant:
- Dwarven Song:
- Bilbo's Pony: Clever solution to the underground theme. And I like the strength bonus .
- Burning Fir Cones: Well done! Beautiful card, I love the way the picture combines with the template. It will be a nice surprise at the later sites, with 2 or more followers.
- Crawling Evil:
- Bolg, Servant: Well attuned. At the later stages the limit will prove worth of being added.
- Terrifying Legend:
- Power Struggle: Yes, I had forgotten Ranks Without Number. This one doesn't reducce the cost, so it seems well I think.

* Strong agreement with some suggestions or minor discrepancies:

- Dû Bekar!: I like it. And replacing the exertion with a spotting requirement is clever . But there's a single thing I dislike about this card: the picture. The Dwarves, or a single Dwarf, should be confronting the enemy lines like in Azanulbizar or the Battle of the Five Armies (or even when fleeing from Goblin Town, there are lots of lovely pictures in that scene), but in the picture you chose the only thing they confront is the camera .

- Goblin Song: Same as above. I love the way you mixed the suggestions. But I'd change the picture to something closer to the Great Goblin singing one of his 2 songs. And the lore text too, if not a part of the song, then perhaps Balin saying after the 1st one "That's not a song. It's an abomination!".

- Battle Ram: Though I'd like to add some damage bonus, like "At a battleground site, bearer is damage +1". Or something more risky, like "At the start of each skirmish involving bearer, you may exert him to make him damage +1", if bearer unexpectedly loses then the exertion will backfire and perhaps kill him.

- Savage Warg: From mount possession to a fierce minion, such a bold change. Bravo! But must be strength 9, with only strength 8 won't have so many chances of winning a skirmish, and from 8 to 9 doesn't change at all its potential to overwhelm so it's not an aggresive change. A last thing: perhaps might be "if bearer is discarded, this possession becomes...", considering that if a minion is killed is then discarded, and then cards that discard Orcs/minions like Barrels or Twisted Gold of Dragon might trigger it too.
     The part that states it cannot bear other cards is not necessary at all (because this card won't "return" to support area like A Shadow Rises or Radagast Deceived, will be discarded at the end of the turn as any other minion). It will even prevent the Warg from bearing a fortification, if we create in a future Extension a [Dale] or fortification that must be transferred to a minion.

- Enchanted River: The current version seems good, but might be better when working with Spiders. I think that all these new splashable conditions should work better when working with minions of their own culture. That is the case with Crawling Evil and Stealth Sorcery. If you change "if the fellowship is at a forest site" with "at a forest site", there's enough room for my suggestion ("At a forest site, discard this condition to discard a follower. You may play a [Spider] card from your discard pile."). Anyway, it's still a good card as it is. But please change the lore text, to something like this (from the book): "'Bombur has fallen in! Bombur is drowning!' he cried." .

- Stealth Sorcery: I've been thinking about the mechanism of this card. The first line doesn't provide a real option to the FP player to assign his/her Wise allies, and that removes any possible disadvantage to this extremely powerful card. I mean, if the Shadow player chooses to discard this card after using it (once or more times in the same assignment phase), then an unassigned Radagast or Elrond won't be able to fight at all. It's too powerful to lack any built-in disadvantage or counter; Sauron allows the companion to exert instead but this doesn't. But it can be solved easily I believe: "At the start of the assignment phase, make Wise allies may participate in skirmishes". After being discarded, Wise allies will still be able to fight and that'd be more balanced and representative I think.


Obviously, there's More Yet To Come.

[-Enola-]

Ok I change all this except the followings :

- Du Bekar : New card!

- Savage Warg : I prefer "killed" in order to avoid any combo. It's also more thematic ^^.

- Goblin Song : I prefer the picture where we see weapons.

- Stealth Sorcery : I change it for "until the end of the turn", like the move limit rule.

- Enchanted River: I didn't change the lore text yet. I prefer to keep it likre this now (a general condition like Stone Giants).

[Durin's Heir]

- Savage Warg: Ok for "killed" instead of "discarded" or "killed or discarded". And great for strength 9. But there are 2 things I dislike: vitality 1 is too little, 2 was better; and remove the "and cannot bear other cards", it's not needed as unlike A Shadow Rises it will not return to the support area but instead will be discarded as a regular minion at the end of the turn. Even in the case of A Shadow Rises, it can bear other cards under very specific circumstances, and those are discarded anyway when A Shadow Rises is converted into a minion again:

"NOTES: When you make this card a minion, move it out of your support area. When this card is no longer a minion, move it back to your support area. For example: if a character bearing Phial of Galadriel, Starglass is skirmishing A Shadow Rises and discards the Phial of Galadriel, A Shadow Rises loses "Fierce" and can bear other cards. If A Shadow Rises bears cards when its maneuver special ability is used, those cards are discarded."
   http://lotrtcgwiki.com/wiki/lotr11216

So besides not being needed at all (there isn't a possession that may be borne by any minion, by any [Gundabad] minion or by a Warg), it will prevent Free Peoples cards like fortifications from being transferred to Savage Warg. And wastes some card room .

- War Axe: I like the goal of the new text, but... should this weapon discard The One Ring if Bilbo loses against bearer? It MUST be possessions and followers only. And I think that should discard only 1 card at your choice, it's a response action so you can use it more than once per victory, as far as you have vitality to keep exerting. Will be borne by high vitality minions like Trolls and Wargriders, and the FP player can try to control bearer's vitality in order to defend some possessions and followers. And unlike the Ring of Thrór, it can be replayed by Goblin Footman, so it will be very persistent.

- Stealth Sorcery: I was thinking in the same move limit rule. But that rule is clear only to experienced people and to new players it may lead to confusion. Instead, "At the start of the maneuver/assignement phase, MAKE Wise allies... until the regroup phase/end of the turn" can't generate any doubt to new players. Anyway, I'm glad that you accepted the need of adding a sustained counter .

The previous suggestions, "At the start of the assignment phase, make Wise allies may participate in skirmishes" may be enough as it lasts during the same assignment phase when it's discarded.

- Enchanted River: I didn't notice before but Enchanted River should be unique, or else the exertions when moving to site 5 will stack.
 
- Underground Lake: I don't like the cost of this card. Gives too much for too little: healing a minion twice and adding a doubt, without having to exert or spot anyone, discard X Shadow cards from hand/play, or win a skirmish. Besides, MUST be unique, imagine some copies of this card and a mounted Assaulting Goblin (for a vitality bonus): the Goblin might exert twice to make a fellow Orc strength +6, and repeat once (+ adding a doubt) per each copy you discard... too much I think.

It can be too easy to add doubts with this and Stone Giants, not only in a constructed format but also in a Draft Game. I'd change it to this:

" Underground Lake . Condition • Support Area. Each site on the adventure is an underground. Response: If Bilbo loses a skirmish, discard this condition to add a doubt and heal a minion twice."

If Gollum is not present, you can always force Bilbo to fight or add a doubt with Orkish Aggressor. Given the response trigger, might be non-unique without too much problem.

- Stone Giants: Seems good by itself: is unique, requires a mountain site and to play a minion in the Shadow phase (otherwise there won't be a Maneuver phase) and to remove . But there's a combo that worries me a bit: The Wolves Army. You can discard this at maneuver for a doubt, then exert Azog to play The Wolves Army and repeat the Stone Giants (which need to be played and again to add a doubt); once per turn. Frankly, I can't see if it's an overpowered combo or just a moderate one, so try to put some attention to this trick in the playtesting.

- Goblin Reinforcements: Ranks Without Number can be compared to Power Struggle very well, but not to this one. That's because there's a huge difference between an attached follower and a defender ally. Followers here replace weapons and other recurrent ways of pumping strength or giving skills (that otherwise'd be portrayed by means of allies, possessions, conditions and events). On the other hand, a defending ally means a minion less for a swarm or a beatdown on the fellowship. Plus, we have to considerate the problem of Swarming Goblin and Goblin Runner adding twilight (or Dark Bats reducing that Orc's cost to 0), while minions don't provide such threats... To sum up, cripples too much the Company and is too powerful without an additional cost like "discard a Shadow card from hand to" or "remove to".

- The Evil Becomes Stronger: Good title! There's a missing word in the lore text: "Tell me, mellon, when...".

I like most of it, except that the previous version excluded Thranduil (as he isn't an archer) and the new one doesn't; and that Legolas and Tauriel won't win any skirmish without a strength bonus (except against a Goblin Runner or Swarming Goblin), so they require a strength pump included in this card. Perhaps calling Thranduil to fight is too much: he's too strong, he can allow himself with his own text and he didn't want his people helping the Dwarves. Only " archers" would mean only Legolas, Tauriel and Elf Army (all Mirkwood Elves except Thranduil).

As said before, Legolas and Tauriel need a pump, while Thranduil would be too powerful when pumped. And I don't know if they should fight ANY minion (Orcs, Trolls, Wargs, Nazgûl, Sauron and... yes, Smaug), so I'd limit it to only Orcs and perhaps Trolls too: "Spot an archer to exert 2 minions. Until the regroup phase, that ally partipates in archery fire, is strength +2 and may be assigned to skirmish Orcs."

Or even your idea of "an ally whose home is site 5" which includes Thranduil, but I don't like to allow so easily a Mirkwood Elf to be a cannon fodder against Smaug, or to fight the Nazgûl (which only companions and Wise allies should do). Only Orcs (and perhaps Trolls or Wargs). Given the current cards you can use Thranduil at site 8 to face Smaug: you exert Thorin twice or discard a artifact, and a fully healed Thranduil will survive the 1st skirmish before Smaug and die in the 2nd; my point is, I think we don't want to make it easier.

- Alfrid: Hmmm, add the Windlance instead of Alfrid. Or Percy, he supported Bard before Smaug's attack and after that he was his lieutenant...

Denethor can't be compared to a mere invented wicked couselor. He's not only a character made by Tolkien, he's one of his most complex and developed: Denethor II was the ruler of Gondor and keeper of the Throne, father of Boromir and Faramir. He organized the defence of Minas Tirith, and even won a struggle of wills against Sauron himself. Denethor II and Aragorn II met when the ranger was in service to Steward Ecthelion II under the name of "Thorongil", and both rivaled in knowledge, bravery, strength, military skills and the love of their people.

I never liked the way Denethor and the cards that surround him were made by Decipher, they depose him of all his role and character. When young he was a valaint and fearsome fighter and captain like Boromir but then he assumed the stewardship, and the Steward was banned from leaving the walls of Minas Tirith while the King wasn't present. So he shouldn't have been a mere strength 8 defender, instead should have provided powerful tricks and bonuses to other Gondorians and to Pippin while he hasn't been assigned by the FP player. More or less like a wicked version of Gandalf. And the Palantír should have been a key card in the King Block, not a mere stone in Reflections set...

"'Or why should I sit here in my tower and think, and watch, and wait, spending even my sons? For I can still wield a brand.'

He stood up and cast open his long black cloak, and behold! he was clad in mail beneath, and girt with a long sword, great-hilted in a sheath of black and silver. 'Thus have I walked, and thus now for many years have I slept,' he said, 'lest with age the body should grow soft and timid.'"

On the other hand, Alfrid was created to be another Grima, but with less poetry. And he acts as such. There isn't a single FP version of Grima. A Shadow follower version of Alfrid fits better, or even a minion version (which can't participate in archery nor skirmishes). But we are talking about the FP card slot of the Esgaroth Add-ons, therefore Percy or the Windlance should take that place. Or even Athelas. For the Windlance I have only vague ideas, not yet a card; for Percy I've been working on these are 2 versions:

•Percy, Bard's Lieutenant [Dale]
Ally • Home 6 • Man
Strength 6  Vitality 3
Archer.
While another [Dale] Man may participate in skirmishes, Percy may participate in archery fire and skirmishes.
Skirmish: Exert Percy to make a [Dale] Man strength +2 until the regroup phase.
"'Bard! Orcs are storming over the causeway!'"

•Percy, Porter of Lake-town [Dale]
Follower • Man
Strength +1  Vitality +1
Aid - Exert a [Dale] ally and add .
Bearer must be a companion or ally.
Bearer is an archer. If bearer is a [Dale] Man, each [Dale] ally is strength +1 and gains home site 9.
"'He brought the beast down! Shot him dead with a Black Arrow.'"

The addition of home site 9 is another way of making Dale men fight at the Battle of the 5 Armies.

[Durin's Heir]

- Du Bekâr!: Hmmm, the new version is too expensive and the effect is too soft. Swarming shadows love undirected wounding, and the cost of discarding cards in play means (in absense of conditions) to discard followers, possessions, allies and artifacts, all very useful (perhaps Thrór's Key and Thrór's Map are easily disposable). It doesn't allow you to either pay exertions nor to direct those wounds, so the wounds will be too little and the Shadow player will choose high vitality minions or unneeded weak minions as targets, and that's all. I'd add exertions as a possible cost, and direct yourself the wounds to minions (except Smaug):

Du Bekâr!
Event • Assignment
Exert any number of characters and discard any number of cards in play (except companions) to wound a minion (except Smaug) for each exertion and each card discarded.

Still very expensive (exertions are rarely cheap), but now the other side takes a worthy damage.

In respect of the picture, Thorin looks too worried for his grampa's head is no longer over his gampa's shoulders. I'd use instead a picture when Thorin leads the charging Dwarvish line against the Orcs, from 0:50:52 to 0:50:54 in An Unexpected Journey (Extended Edition); I love the twist of the camera there! Or a picture of the Company emerging from the Front Gate of Erebor towards the Battle of the Five Armies.

- Twisted Gold of Dragon: I found a problem with this card: can discard Narzug. And given the rules, you have to play a card from discard pile or hand if you use an ability or event to do so, but from draw deck you aren't forced, so you can replay Narzug and discard him as far as resources allow you, to destroy any ally in your path. Add "(except Narzug)".

[-Enola-]

- Savage Warg : I prefer a 1 Vitality minion, in order to avoid wound counters on this card.

- War Axe : I change it. I wanted a strong hand weapon which can discard all (and the One Ring), but ok.

- Enchanted River : Ok thanks .

- Underground Lake -> new Gollum.

- The Evil Becomes Stronger : Ok, I change the card and the quantities of each card.

- Stone Giants & Goblin Reinforcements : We will test them first.

- Alfrid : Sorry, but I prefer to keep him as a FP card.

- Du Bekâr! : New card.

- Twisted Gold of Dragon : I don't think there is any problem. Narzug still works well with Trolls, but it's very expensive.

[Durin's Heir]

- War Axe: As an "each time bearer wins..." action is good, but might be a "Response: if bearer wins a skirmish" action too; vitality would fix a natural limit. If remains as an "each time" action, it must be optional: "you may exert it to discard...".

- The Shadow Arkenstone: Ufff, this is the most complicated card of the whole set. And you still don't refer to adding Thranduil as a possible bearer .

Hmmm, I agree that the +2 bonus is too strong if the Shadow player wants to overwhelm Bilbo (he/she requires +4 strength to overwhelm, or +6 if Bilbo bears Dori), but the Arkenstone must give some small benefit along with that powerful advantage to the Shadow side. A vitality +1 bonus might work well. And even a printed strength +1 bonus (+2 only to overwhelm, or +3 if Dori), with resistance -2 to compensate and to make Bilbo's danger of corruption be the same if he keeps the Arkenstone or if he hands it over to another person (inciting the FP player to give it to Thorin, Bard or Thranduil, with the associated strength reduction to Bilbo).

•The Arkenstone, King's Jewel [No Culture]
Artifact
Strength +1  Vitality +1  Resistance -2
Plays on Bilbo at site 7 or higher.
Each non-Wise companion or ally of another
culture than bearer's is strength -2.
Bilbo, Bard, Thranduil and Thorin gain this
ability: "Maneuver: Add 2 doubts to
transfer the Arkenstone to this character."
"'For the Arkenstone of my father, is worth more than
a river of gold in itself, and to me it is beyond price.'"

I relocated the "While at site 7 or higher" part to the "Plays on Bilbo" part, I think it makes more sense to play the Arkenstone only at Erebor and that way a card line gets freed. I used that card line for a longer lore text, which is Thorin talking to his Company in the book.

During tests, the +2 in strength wasn't really attractive for the Shadow player.

I firmly believe that a printed -2 resistance bonus will be very appealing for the Shadow players to attach this tool to Bilbo .

- Gollum, Bound to the Ring: I must bow to you and your creativity. Great idea sir! Anyway, requiring to protect only 3 vitality to discard Sting, The One Ring, the Burglar's Contract, the Old Thrush or Bilbo's Pony is very dangerous, because Bilbo can't have a damage bonus (except if bearing Bombur) so he won't wound Gollum twice in a single skirmish (unless by Bilbo's Pony's text at a non-underground). A solution to this might be very simple: give Gollum the fierce keyword. That way Bilbo can try to defeat him twice and keep his toys, or Gollum will cause him twice the trouble (can even win one and lose the other, and still at regroup discard an item).

- Alfrid: Ok if you want to keep Alfrid as a FP card, but I really believe that the old but fearless Percy, Bard's second in command should be a better investment for that sole FP card slot in this Extension. Percy faced the outnumbering Orc armies with his bow, his sword, his bravery and a misorganized crowd of militia men. Or Hilda Bianca, the herbs tradeswoman who leads the militia women. Or the Dwarvish Windlance (BALIN: "The last time we saw such a weapon, a city was on fire"). Or the Athelas. All those and Alfrid are invented characters/items for the films. But Alfrid didn't really help anyone at all and instead fled from the battleground. I'm waiting to see what you think about those 2 versions of Percy.

I'm not of those who hate the creation of Alfrid Lickspittle. I'd rather have more screen time for more important things like Beorn, Radagast, Saruman, the Eagles, the 13 Dwarves at the battleground, Thorin's funeral (filmed but cut off by Warner; PJ hated that decision)... but frankly I did laugh with the jokes involving Alfrid. There's always a wicked, resentful bloodsucker in each town hall and each family. The point in my argument is that Alfrid doesn't help while others gave their blood, sweat and life in the battle.


- Savage Warg :
- Enchanted River :
- The Evil Becomes Stronger :
- Stone Giants : I was refering to the picture version, which has a Maneuver ability. Your text version in the 1st post says it's a Skirmish ability, and at a skirmish the "Wolves Army loop" can't work, so keep it as a Skirmish ability.

- Twisted Gold of Dragon : Ok for Narzug then. Discarding simultaneously 3 Orcs is very hard to repeat at the same Shadow phase.

[-Enola-]

Thank you, I modified the cards with most of your ideas.

Arkenstone: I don't want a card which stick the Shadow player's hand and I avoid any effect before site 7 (strength, vitality or resistance).

Gollum: With Kili, Bombur and all the wounding events, I think Bilbo can handle this problem.

[Durin's Heir]

- Gollum: That's ok. This card must provide a good threat without depending on support cards like If He Loses and Better Than Nothing, as in most cases it won't coincide with the Gollum Pack of Beatdown Pack 1.


 Azog's Army Pack:

- Swarming Goblin: Exerting will allow the FP player to defend him(her)self with archery and wounding.
- Assaulting Goblin:
- Vicious Warg: +2 Vitality was too much.
- Were-worms: Now to spit out an excessive quantity of Orcs with this trick will be impossible, the condition exchanges a Shadow card in hand for an Orc.

- Azog, Commander: I agree that he's a key minion to play. But not a key minion to mantain of the board, if he gets killed his Army won't change a bit. He's mainly there to play a good bunch of minions, and after that he's totally expendable. But in the films, when Thorin distracted him from giving orders to his troops and finally killed him, that was crucial to beat the Moria/Dol Guldur Army present in the field (and the coming Gundabad Army). As a "Commander of Legions" his role wasn't to only gather an army, but to skillfully lead it to the victory, and that's why Thorin wanted to "cut off the head of the snake".

That story flavor is what I try to portray in my proposal of "While you can spot 3 minions, your minions are strength +2", instead of merely reducing their cost.

- The Wolves Army: Hmmm, at one point you said you didn't want Warg minions, but later you made the Savage Warg turn itself into a Warg minion if its rider gets killed. I'm glad for Savage Warg, it's such a bold and creative invention. But I think that changing the Wolves Army to be a Warg minion would be in the same line. And would prevent it from being replayed by Host of Thousands, Hatred Rekindled and Were-worms, reducing its effect in loops and combos with conditions like the Were-worms.

But let's think a bit more freely. What if you change it from "you may play a condition from your draw deck or discard pile" to "you may play a card from your draw deck or discard pile"? Like Host of Moria of Reflections, but broader. Both cases are expensive and unique, thus combos are limited by twilight and loops are impossible. That way you might bring a Demolition Troll, a specific Orc, a possession like the Vicious Warg (or a Goblin Scimitar if both Swarm Packs are in play)... I'd change The Wolves Army to this:

•The Wolves Army
Minion • Warg
Strength 10  Vitality 4  Site 4
Fierce.
When you play this minion, you may play a card from your draw deck or discard pile.
While at a battleground, this minion is strength +1 for each wounded companion.

As said in a previous post, the strength addition related to wounded companions is there to replace possessions.

- Dark Bats: I don't know if this card needs to be changed from "take into hand from discard" to "return to hand from play". Nor if it needs to be reduced in copies. Given the previous changes in text and copies to other cards like Swarming Goblin, The Wolves Army and the Were-worms, reducing the power and/or copies of this card can be too much.

Returning a minion to hand is much less powerful for 3 reasons: it requires the minion to survive until regroup, doesn't allow you to choose any minion given the specific needs, and returning a minion to hand means that you will have to replay that minion if the fellowship moves again. That last point can give you some advantage, to play again Azog or The Wolves Army if they weren't killed. But except for that, each point is relatively a disadvantage.

My point is that such a change to Dark Bats might need to be playtested before concluding anything, that's all.

[-Enola-]

Ok, but we will first test the current cards now. We will see then .
And I don't want Warg minion card, if it could be more accurate.

I also changed the 4 Bilbo (Gollum was too strong).

[Durin's Heir]

This is a general "OK" for Smaug, but the reasons are detailed:

 Smaug Pack:
- Dragon's Malice: Great picture! I can't decide what frightens me more, if the new text or the new image. Bilbo will have good vitality additions (The One Ring and the Mithril Coat) and healing (Elrond and Lore of Imladris), so exerting him twice shouldn't be excessive. Smaug won't fight enough times to make this card a sole mechanism of corruption. again.

- Smaug's Awakening: Discarding a minion will reduce the chances of pulling a Swarm, lead by Smaug himself.

- Wrath of the Dragon: Cool new pic! Ok for only artifacts.
- Dissension: With the new version of Dragon's Malice, gathering doubts won't be so hard without Dissension collaborating to it.



Ok for testing things as are by now. I'm waiting for it to happen, and the report to come .



But you still don't say a word about those 2 versions of Percy.

[-Enola-]

Thank you for all your comments.
The 4 Bilbo seem good ?

[Durin's Heir]

Indeed those changes look great. Four different ways to counter Gollum, instead of one sole generic skill amongst the 4.

I have a question regarding Bilbo, Reliable Companion. Does that strength +1 ability work good enough? We agreed time ago that 2 exertions are better than 1 (to prevent an abuse of the skill), that's right. But I wonder if +1 strength is worthy of 2 exertions, might be +2 to make the effect more appropiate, although I've never playtested the cards so I can't know for sure. Gimli Unbidden Guest exerts once for +1, so if we keep that proportion Bilbo Reliable Companion should exert twice for +2. Just a thought.



If the cards of Main Deck can still be changed, I think there are some errors in the lore text of some Main Deck cards, like Hatred Rekindled. That lore text you chose tells about the FP armies gathering around Thorin's company for a new charge, it's hope and not despair what describes.

(C) - 3x • Hunting Pack : Cost (2). [Gundabad] Condition • Support area. Each time you play a possession, you may exert an Orc to make the Free Peoples player exert a companion (or 2 companions if that Orc is Yazneg).

- Hunting Pack: I omitted this card when analizing the add-ons ...

This card will be too powerful I think. The part that worries me most is the boost regarding Yazneg. And combined with Azog the Defiler playing mounts it will destroy the Company too easily. With both on the board, oh my: you play Azog and Yazneg (), and then play 2 mounts ( to more) and exert Yazneg twice for a total of 6 exertions in the Shadow phase (!!!), that's before the normal and fierce skirmishes. Very expensive (9 to 13 twilight), but after pulling this combo Azog will find little resistance in his 2 skirmishes. And you can keep playing mounts and exerting Orcs, to exert 2 companions each time, as far as the twilight allows you...

What can/should be done? I don't know, the very nature of this card will be too powerful and thus troublesome, but at least that boost with Yazneg can be removed. Maybe if the cost is changed from "exert an Orc" to "spot an Orc and remove ", exertions are often much cheaper than twilight.

[-Enola-]

After the last test, here are the possible next updates:

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Next_Updates.html

Nazguls

1x • Ulaire Attea, Revived:
Cost (6). minion. Nazgûl. Site 5. Strength 12, Vitality 3.
Fierce. Skirmish: Discard an Orc from hand to make a minion strength +1 (or +2 at a forest) until the regroup phase.

1x • Ulaire Enquea, Revived:
Cost (6). minion. Nazgûl. Site 5. Strength 11, Vitality 4.
Fierce. Each time an Orc returns into your hand, you may exert Ulaire Enquea to make each minion strength +1 until the regroup phase.

1x • Ulaire Cantea, Revived:
Cost (5). minion. Nazgûl. Site 5. Strength 10, Vitality 3.
Fierce. Each time an Orc returns into your hand, you may exert Ulaire Cantea to make each minion strength +1 until the regroup phase.

1x • Ulaire Nertea, Revived:
Cost (4). minion. Nazgûl. Site 5. Strength 9, Vitality 2.
Fierce. Shadow: Exert Ulaire Nertea and return an Orc to your hand to play a minion from your draw deck or discard pile; its twilight cost is -4.

1x • Ulaire Ostea, Revived:
Cost (4). minion. Nazgûl. Site 5. Strength 9, Vitality 3.
Fierce. Shadow: Exert Ulaire Ostea and return an Orc to your hand to add for each and minion you spot.

Sauron

Jail will be in White Council Pack.

4x • Sauron, The Necromancer :
Cost (5). Minion. Maïa. Site 5. Strength 15, Vitality 4.
Sauron may not be assigned to a skirmish. Orcs are fierce. Assignment: Exert Sauron to assign an Orc or a minion to a companion (except Bilbo). The Free Peoples player may add a doubt or exert that companion to prevent this.

2x • Ring of Thrór, Last of the Seven Rings:
Cost . Artifact • Ring. Vitality +1.
Bearer must be Sauron. He is fierce. When you play this artifact, you may discard a artifact. Maneuver: Make the first sentence of Sauron's game text not apply until the regroup phase.

4x Danger Wrapped in Shadows:
Cost (2). Condition • Support area.
At the start of your Shadow phase, you may remove to take into hand a minion from your discard pile. Skirmish: Exert Sauron to make another minion (except Smaug) strength +2 (limit +4).

Azog's Army

No more Swarming Goblin.

3x • The Wolves Army :
Cost (6). minion. Orc. Site 4. Strength 10, Vitality 4.
Fierce. When you play this minion, you may play a condition from your draw deck or discard pile.

4x Assaulting Goblin :
Cost (2). Minion. Orc. Site 4. Strength 7, Vitality 2.
Skirmish: Exert this minion to make another Orc strength +2 (or +3 if at a battleground).

3x • Dark Bats :
Cost (1). Condition • Support area.
To play, exert a Orc. While at a battleground, the twilight cost of your minions is -1. Regroup: Discard this condition to return all minions from play to your hand.

White Council Pack

Stealth Sorcery   -> Jail.

2x Jail:
Cost (1). Condition • Support area.
If a Wise ally wins a skirmish, discard this condition. Response: If a Wise character is exhausted at the start of the regroup phase, remove to stack him or her on this condition.

Thrain Pack

2x Secret Door:
Cost (7). Mountain. While you can spot a unique possession, the Shadow number of Secret Door is -2.

[Durin's Heir]

Frankly, I can't add much to those changes. I agree totally with most, and partially with only a few.

Sauron:

"Jail will be in White Council Pack": Given the scarcity of cards for Sauron, this is a very wise change as it redirects those slots for cards that need more room.

- Sauron, The Necromancer: 4 copies now, that's a great improvement. I like that now makes only Orcs fierce (excluding Demolition Troll and Gollum). And now assigns only Nazgul and Orcs to a companion, which is much more consistent with the lore; self-assigning Sauron was too powerful. The new option of adding doubts may be used by both sides: by the FP player to protect key companions, and by the Shadow player to exploit that need of protection and pile up doubts. to all!

- Ring of Thrór, Last of the Seven Rings: Discarding artifacts didn't make too much sense (if you are able to play the Ring of Thrór, means that you can't spot the one so there was no use to depict that part of the story), and was a bit too powerful to discard Orcrist or The Arkenstone (and that's Smaug's task anyway).

- Danger Wrapped in Shadows: Seems good too. But what if it takes into hand any card? That way you'd be able to recover other copies of Danger Wrapped in Shadows or Jail, and with 2 on the board you might play a fighting Sauron for on each site. is a lot of twilight for a fierce, strength 15 minion with no damage bonus, no self-pumping and no self-assignment, and in absense of good twilight to play other strong minions (to assign and pump them) he'll be trying only to prevent double moves, or to kill companions if all are exhausted or if there isn't anyone with strength 8 or more to not be overwhelmed (Bofur can prevent both things easily).


White Council Pack:

"Stealth Sorcery   -> Jail": Additional Wise characters and a Jail to counter Wise characters only, all in the same Pack.

- Jail: I like your new version, it now aims Wise characters instead of the Company, and will force Sauron to keep assigning Gandalf to strong minions. But there are 2 details that call my attention:

1. The "Response" part seems good, but I'd make it an "at the start of the regroup phase" action for better wording: "At the start of the regroup phase, you may remove to stack an exhausted Wise character on this condition". And is a bit shorter. That way it allows to stack only 1 Wise character per regroup phase (per copy in play), which reduces the power in case Galadriel and/or Saruman get exhausted with mere self-exertions.

2. Is it meant to allow more than 1 Wise character to be stacked there? The previous version was limited to only 1. If you use my suggestion above, to stack only 1 Wise guy per site would limit the possibilities of being too powerful, if in a single Jail there's room for more than 1 prisoner.


Thrain Pack:

- Secret Door: Seems a good change, it's now like Hornburg Causeway with Aragorn. You can make the Shadow number 8, and the reduction -3 instead of -2, to punish even more a player who doesn't have in play (or deck) Thrór's Map/Key, the Oakenshield or the Great Barricade.

There will be more unique possessions if there are more Extensions in the future: weapons, armors, mounts, fortifications... If you want to reserve the privilege of this twilight reduction to only Thrór's Map/Key, you can try this: "While you can spot a unique possession with no class, the Shadow number of Secret Door is -2." That excludes shields (Oakenshield), weapons, armors, helms, boar mounts, the Horn of Erebor, fortifications (as they are "support area" possessions), bracers...


Azog's Army:

"No more Swarming Goblin": With cards like Dark Bats and Azog, Commander reducing substantially the cost of each minion, doesn't seem necessary to add twilight when playing a minion a la Goblin Runner. Like Site Control Uruks: they don't add twilight per controlled site but instead reduce their own cost, and work marvellously.

- The Wolves Army & Assaulting Goblin: 1 more copy makes them much more viable. Assaulting Goblin will be the main force in the deck, with several copies in play and some Vicious Wargs they will cause great trouble.

- Dark Bats: +1 copy will be very beneficial. I don't know what to say about the change in the regroup skill, doesn't seem to change too much the effect. Apparently is more powerful for a single moment but less powerful if played from the start of the game. That makes sense anyway with the lore: they bats were used to darken the sky only at a determined time. This new version will make a nice combo with The Wolves Army, moreover if there's 1 more copy of each.


More to come.