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Author Topic: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game  (Read 266535 times)

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November 07, 2015, 01:54:40 PM
Reply #285

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #285 on: November 07, 2015, 01:54:40 PM »
Ok, we will let the Pack I as it is ;).


Nazguls

A good protection for the [Wraith] condition could be:

3x Dol Guldur Blade :
Cost (1). [Wraith] Possession • Hand Weapon.
Strength +2. Bearer must be a [Wraith] minion. When you play this possession, add [3].
Maneuver: Discard an Orc from hand to play a [Wraith] card from your draw deck or discard pile.


All the problems about the twilight cost of the Nazguls will be refined after a first test. We will first test all the new mechanics of this Shadow. Btw you can bring in play any Nazgul from your draw deck with the Dol Guldur Blade (really powerful at site 2 with TrollShaw Forest).

You are right, the Nazguls are now vulnerable to Kili, but direct wounds is a way to counter them. Moreover, all the problems with Bifur will probably not happened if there is a Nazgul countering followers in play.
An ability which allows to heal a Nazgul seems too dangerous with their powerful powers. A specific Nazgul who prevents wounds is neither really attractive.
So, the Shadow player has to choose between using the ability of the Nazgul and exhaust it (vulnerable to wounds) or not use it. That's why the abilities of Nertea and Lemenya must be really powerful. We can exchange Nazguls' abilities between them.

I don't know for Otsea (it would be a too complicated text for players), maybe a way to take in hand an Orc from your discard pile? Or test will tell us if it's good with the current ability?
« Last Edit: November 07, 2015, 01:58:42 PM by -Enola- »
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November 14, 2015, 09:24:51 AM
Reply #286

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #286 on: November 14, 2015, 09:24:51 AM »
After a rewatch of DoS, I think I forget the duel between Smaug and Bilbo with the One Ring. So I propose:

3x • Dragon's Malice : Cost (0). [No culture] Condition • Support area. While Bilbo wears the One Ring, he takes no more than 1 wound during each skirmish phase. Each time Smaug wins a skirmish, the Free Peoples player must choose to either exert Bilbo twice or add a doubt.
« Last Edit: November 14, 2015, 09:32:39 AM by -Enola- »
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November 15, 2015, 08:48:22 AM
Reply #287

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #287 on: November 15, 2015, 08:48:22 AM »
After a rewatch of DoS, I think I forget the duel between Smaug and Bilbo with the One Ring. So I propose:

3x • Dragon's Malice : Cost (0). [No culture] Condition • Support area. While Bilbo wears the One Ring, he takes no more than 1 wound during each skirmish phase. Each time Smaug wins a skirmish, the Free Peoples player must choose to either exert Bilbo twice or add a doubt.
I like it, will give a stronger representation. Seems well balanced as Bilbo will be taking exertions or wounds, plus the needed doubt cost of wearing the Ring. The benefit for the FP player will give him/her less reasons to remove it if the Shadow player plays it from the start, which is a side benefit to consider. :up:


Ok, we will let the Pack I as it is ;).
Nice! I like each card as it is. Now Pack I needs only 2 Shadow cards, the distribution of copies per card, and the pictures.

Do you have any idea of what Shadow card can be added? You said those cards should counter the most powerful FP cards of the Pack. The mechanisms of those FP cards are drawing, returning cards to deck or hand, healing, choking and fighting. The natural counterparts are respectively discarding from hand, discarding from deck, exerting, twilight generation and fighting.

Also, those Shadow cards must have a strong flavour in respect of the conspiration and the journey of The Quest of Erebor. Spies, enemies on the track, weather conditions, their struggle to get before Durin's Day ends.... and even Smaug himself.


I got only this by the moment, a Smaug non-culture card:

[1]The Last Lights of Durin's Day [No Culture]
Condition • Support Area
At sites 1 to 7, this condition may not be discarded and at the end of each turn during which the fellowship did not move more than once, add a doubt.
Shadow: Remove a doubt to add [2] and make the Free Peoples player discard a card from hand.
"'It is our one chance to find the hidden door.'"

The Company must move quickly, if they stay too long the Quest will be in peril; having stopping power will give you more than just a movement advantage. This card turns doubts into twilight for minions and into discarded cards from the Company's plans, to depict the Company being pressed to move with bold haste instead of clever stealth. A limit might be added to the twilight addition if it's too powerful with many doubts being removed at the same site, like "Remove a doubt to add [2] (limit [5]) and make..." .

It's better to use those doubts before site 7, or this card might be discarded (adding a limit will force the use of doubts in each site). The discard protection is there due to it works better from the start of the game, must remain on the board to be effective, and being unique makes it too vulnerable to FP condition control. The Prancing Pony and A Chance Meeting can get Ancestral Knowledge, but will be useless before reaching Erebor.


Nazguls

A good protection for the [Wraith] condition could be:

3x Dol Guldur Blade :
Cost (1). [Wraith] Possession • Hand Weapon.
Strength +2. Bearer must be a [Wraith] minion. When you play this possession, add [3].
Maneuver: Discard an Orc from hand to play a [Wraith] card from your draw deck or discard pile.
I like that change. Besides protecting your condition, you can play it sooner and even arm another Nazgul. I like the twilight addition too (it's the cost of Goblin Footman, that's smart). :up:

Now, Dol Guldur Blade requires 3 things to work: 1. a Nazgul in play to bear it, 2. it must be played from hand or you must play Goblin Footman from any location, and 3. you must have one or more Orcs in hand to use the skill. It's very powerful, but will be useless if you don't have a Nazgul first or if you deplete too fast the Orcs in your hand/draw deck.

To solve the first issue you have He Is Summoning His Servants, but to solve the second there is nothing. Therefore, might be good to add a skill to another [Wraith] card to return Orcs to draw deck or hand. Moreover, if you use your idea of Dol Guldur Blade playing any [Wraith] card, using that skill too much will easily leave you with very few Orcs at the late game.

The Witch King and Toldea have 3 free lines to add a skill (preserving their lore text), even Attea has 3 lines (but then his lore text will suffer). I'm thinking in skills like "Regroup: Exert a Nazgul to place an Orc from your discard pile on top of your draw deck" (3 lines) or "Regroup: Exert a Nazgul to take an Orc from your discard pile into hand" (2 lines). Both limit your cycling potential, so overusing any of them will be very counterproductive.


All the problems about the twilight cost of the Nazguls will be refined after a first test. We will first test all the new mechanics of this Shadow. Btw you can bring in play any Nazgul from your draw deck with the Dol Guldur Blade (really powerful at site 2 with TrollShaw Forest).
That's alright. My point about a twilight reduction text is that in the Hobbit Draft Game most minions are cheaper for their power (even Smaug) and most have a much lower site number than in LOTR TCG. Nazguls here must have a strong counterbalance to that site number rise.


You are right, the Nazguls are now vulnerable to Kili, but direct wounds is a way to counter them. Moreover, all the problems with Bifur will probably not happened if there is a Nazgul countering followers in play.
An ability which allows to heal a Nazgul seems too dangerous with their powerful powers. A specific Nazgul who prevents wounds is neither really attractive.
So, the Shadow player has to choose between using the ability of the Nazgul and exhaust it (vulnerable to wounds) or not use it. That's why the abilities of Nertea and Lemenya must be really powerful. We can exchange Nazguls' abilities between them.
You are right, exerting your Nazguls makes them vulnerable to easy killing and that's a good cost :up:.

Some Nazguls can be countered by direct pre-skirmish wounding (Kili, Burning Fir Cones); those are Cantea, Nertea and Lemenya. Cantea and Nertea can even be countered by skirmish wounding, directed (Dawn Take You All, Bilbo's Pony) or not (losing a skirmish), if the condition removal happens at skirmish or regroup (Bifur, Sting, An Accorn). But Enquea, Nelya and Otsea can't be countered at all because they act at the start of maneuver, you don't have a moment to wound them first. So their power must be balanced with that privilege of being unblockable, having also a high vitality.

Yes, an ability to heal them can be very dangerous, unless the cost is respectively very high. I agree that isn't attractive to have such skill on a specific Nazgul, but perhaps will be right on He Is Summoning His Servants, something like "Skirmish: Remove [3] to heal a Nazgul" (1 card line), like Not Easily Destroyed. Or at regroup instead. I don't believe it's necessary but having such option can be useful to prevent double moves, and I think it will add to the flavour of playing with undead, unkillable Kings and Sorcerers.


I don't know for Otsea (it would be a too complicated text for players), maybe a way to take in hand an Orc from your discard pile? Or test will tell us if it's good with the current ability?
Playtesting is always a good approach :up:. The point about Otsea is he acts after Shadow (like all Nazguls here), and [Wraith] cards are playable only at Shadow phase. So returning an Orc from discard pile can be a good option to get directly something useful to use that turn :up:.

Now, such a skill will be too powerful for a repeatable Response action (with Otsea's vitality), feeding the skills of Dol Guldur Blade, the Witch King, Attea and Toldea. So I'd change it to an "each time" skill: "Each time the Free Peoples player transfers a follower, you may exert Ulaire Otsea to take an Orc from your discard pile into your hand."
« Last Edit: November 15, 2015, 08:58:03 AM by Durin's Heir »
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November 19, 2015, 09:22:07 AM
Reply #288

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #288 on: November 19, 2015, 09:22:07 AM »
I change this card, there were too many lines on the card.

3x • Dragon's Malice : Cost (0). [No culture] Condition • Support area. While Bilbo wears the One Ring, he cannot take wounds. Each time Smaug wins a skirmish, the Free Peoples player must choose to either exert Bilbo twice or add a doubt.



The first sentence of this new card is a bit too complicated. In order to counter all the boosts and use the twilight pool given by the events and the possessions, I propose this:

• The Last Lights of Durin's Day : Cost (1). [No culture] Condition • Support area. At the end of each turn, you may exert a companion if the fellowship didn't move more than once this turn. Skirmish: Remove [2] to make an Orc strength +2 (limit +4).
"'It is our one chance to find the hidden door.'"

I don't think a non-discard ability is necessary for this condition (it's strong enough).



The change for [Wraith] card is enough to bring back the condition before all [Wraith] conditions get discarded too soon. There will be a lot of ways to play an Orc from discard pile and use it with He Is Summoning His Servants.
Deckbuilding for the Nazguls Shadow will include a lot of Orcs in order to bring use the no-twilight cost abilities of the Nazguls.

I will first test without healing abilities, but if the double move is too easy for the FP player I will change it.

Ok for this new Otsea, but I prefer a Response ability (to really avoid any transfer of followers):

1x • Ulaire Ostea, Revived:
Cost (4). [Wraith] minion. Nazgûl. Site 5. Strength 9, Vitality 3.
Fierce. The site number of each [Wraith] minion is -3.
Response: If the Free Peoples player transfers a follower, exert Ulaire Otsea to take an Orc from your discard pile into hand.



PS: I watched the Extended Edition of BotFA (btw, there is nothing really interesting to add in the game), but I change the picture of Narya.
« Last Edit: November 19, 2015, 09:32:54 AM by -Enola- »
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November 19, 2015, 07:38:51 PM
Reply #289

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #289 on: November 19, 2015, 07:38:51 PM »
I change this card, there were too many lines on the card.

3x • Dragon's Malice : Cost (0). [No culture] Condition • Support area. While Bilbo wears the One Ring, he cannot take wounds. Each time Smaug wins a skirmish, the Free Peoples player must choose to either exert Bilbo twice or add a doubt.
Seems too powerful for the FP player, in absense of Smaug it'll only clog your hand or help Bilbo. I think it's fine, BUT must work only when you can spot Smaug: "If you can spot Smaug, Bilbo cannot take wounds while wearing the One Ring. Each time Smaug wins a skirmish, the Free Peoples player must choose to either exert Bilbo twice or add a doubt." Those should be only 5 lines.


The first sentence of this new card is a bit too complicated. In order to counter all the boosts and use the twilight pool given by the events and the possessions, I propose this:

• The Last Lights of Durin's Day : Cost (1). [No culture] Condition • Support area. At the end of each turn, you may exert a companion if the fellowship didn't move more than once this turn. Skirmish: Remove [2] to make an Orc strength +2 (limit +4).
"'It is our one chance to find the hidden door.'"

I don't think a non-discard ability is necessary for this condition (it's strong enough).
I'm not really convinced about The Last Lights, I just posted the only complete idea I had at the moment. I agree, it's a bit complicated and it'll need some fix if the original idea happens to remain. The effect at the end of the turn should be only until site 7 (they need to reach the Mountain soon but then they can stay), and I wanted to add doubts to show them slowly and progressively abandoning their hope if they move too slow. Perhaps a doubt and a direct exertion will be better.

I don't think it should help only Orcs, Spiders got a lot of help from the Company's hurry. So it should help Spiders too, or any minion. But that might be too much with Smaug or Nazguls. What about pumping any non-unique minion?


This version should be easier to understand:

[1]The Last Lights of Durin's Day [No Culture]
Condition • Support Area
Shadow or Regroup: Remove [2] to play this condition from your discard pile.
At sites 1 to 7, at the end of each turn during which the fellowship moved only once, add a doubt and exert a companion.
Shadow: Remove a doubt to add [2] and exert an unwounded companion.
"'It is our one chance to find the hidden door.'"

By paying the strong cost of 3 twilight, can replay itself at the right moment (at Shadow to convert doubts into twilight, or at Regroup just before the FP player decides if stays or moves). The "at the end of the turn" skill remains from 1 to 7, but now exerts a companion besides adding a doubt. The Shadow skill doesn't discard cards from hand (it was too long, had to cut a line there) but now exerts unwounded companions. So it's now a grind, doubt and twilight machine, which can help Beatdown, Swarm and even Corruption decks.


The change for [Wraith] card is enough to bring back the condition before all [Wraith] conditions get discarded too soon. There will be a lot of ways to play an Orc from discard pile and use it with He Is Summoning His Servants.
Deckbuilding for the Nazguls Shadow will include a lot of Orcs in order to bring use the no-twilight cost abilities of the Nazguls.

I will first test without healing abilities, but if the double move is too easy for the FP player I will change it.

Ok for this new Otsea, but I prefer a Response ability (to really avoid any transfer of followers):

1x • Ulaire Ostea, Revived:
Cost (4). [Wraith] minion. Nazgûl. Site 5. Strength 9, Vitality 3.
Fierce. The site number of each [Wraith] minion is -3.
Response: If the Free Peoples player transfers a follower, exert Ulaire Otsea to take an Orc from your discard pile into hand.
I agree totally. :up: The healing skill may be related to the FP player moving twice: "Each time the fellowship moves during the regroup phase, you may heal each Nazgul", although that uses 2 card lines.

PS: I watched the Extended Edition of BotFA (btw, there is nothing really interesting to add in the game), but I change the picture of Narya.
The new picture is very cool! I still don't watch it, but I feel the funeral part might give a new site 9 to add.
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

November 20, 2015, 02:41:22 AM
Reply #290

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #290 on: November 20, 2015, 02:41:22 AM »
Ok I changed Smaug for your version.

The condition is easier to understand but far too dense and long. We need a more playable card:
- with a maximum of one sentence with a passive ability and one sentence with an actve ability (maximum 5 lines for all)
- without any 'or' or 'and', the goal of a card must be immediatly read.

I propose:

• The Last Lights of Durin's Day : Cost (2). [No culture] Condition • Support area.
You may exert a [Dwarven] companion at the end of each turn during which the fellowship didn't move more than once.
Shadow: Heal a [Dwarven] companion to play this condition from your discard pile.
"'It is our one chance to find the hidden door.'"
« Last Edit: November 20, 2015, 12:00:53 PM by -Enola- »
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January 05, 2016, 07:02:09 PM
Reply #291

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #291 on: January 05, 2016, 07:02:09 PM »
I'm really sorry for this long absense. I've been very busy and stressed.

You made some changes to the add-ons. Crown of Erebor and The King is Dead are really cool! :up: :up: :up: Anyway, I'd make some small changes.

- The King Is Dead is too Thorin-specific. I'd make instead something to weaken any character with a vitality equal or lower than the number of killed persons (to show them succumbing to grief and guilt). The maneuver skill is very good, I wouldn't change a bit of it.

[2]Such A High Cost [Sauron]
Condition • Support Area
While there are X cards in the dead pile, each companion or ally whose vitality is X or less is strength -2.
Maneuver: If you cannot spot Thorin, discard this condition to add 2 doubts.
"'But alas! Thorin did not live to enjoy his triumph or his treasure.'"

I changed the title, and the lore text too.

The higher the death toll, the stronger (and unexerted) a heart will have to be to stand tall in such a butchery of poor souls. Coincidentally, Gandalf, Bilbo and Thorin have the strongest hearts AND vitalities of the Free Peoples. But merely exerting them (with 1 or 2 dead guys) will be enough to make them much weaker... and even if they are fully healed, weakening the smaller guys will bring a chain of weakness that at some point will have to reach them if the Shadow player harvest it.

Your maneuver skill is really good. If played again each site with Danger Wrapped in Shadows, for [5] twilight you will be able to add 2 doubts. But that's a very high cost and is a predictable and fragile combo (and requires to kill Thorin in the first place). So it's OK in my opinion.


- Jail: The new version seems much better. But I found a little problem with the last line. "Copies of stacked characters cannot be played" has a universal effect, so Goblins stacked on Goblin Swarms won't be playable. That can be solved easily by changing it to "Copies of characters stacked here..."


That's all I can write right now, I don't have more time by now :(. But I'll try to post some things soon, about Crown of Erebor, The Last Lights of Durin's Day and other cards...


Hope you are fine and in peace, my good friend.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 07:06:35 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

January 24, 2016, 08:14:21 AM
Reply #292

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #292 on: January 24, 2016, 08:14:21 AM »
Hello Durin's Heir,

Sorry for this long absence, but I had a lot of work. I got back in the Hobbit Game only 2 days ago: we made a tournament yesterday (only 4 players this time).

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Boosters2.html

- Jail : Well done ;).

- Such a High Cost : I change the first part, I hope you like the new version. In most of your games with Wargs or Bolg Shadow, Gandalf and Bilbo take most of the indirect wounds. So I will try to change this situation with this new ability.

I also change other cards :
- The Orc Army and Orkish Purser (too strong with Wargs Shadow).
- Simpler Shadow Ring of Thror (same as Saruman's Staff).
- New Stone Giants. FP player tends to kill some companions and replace them with new ones.
- New The Carrock. The Wizard Staff was too hard to play.

I hope you're all right.
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 08:15:56 AM by -Enola- »
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January 24, 2016, 09:28:13 PM
Reply #293

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #293 on: January 24, 2016, 09:28:13 PM »
Hello Durin's Heir,

Sorry for this long absence, but I had a lot of work. I got back in the Hobbit Game only 2 days ago: we made a tournament yesterday (only 4 players this time).
I too have been very busy lately. I'm glad you're back into the project, hope I can help you without my usual delays and absences.

- Jail : Well done ;).
:up: 8-)

- Such a High Cost : I change the first part, I hope you like the new version. In most of your games with Wargs or Bolg Shadow, Gandalf and Bilbo take most of the indirect wounds. So I will try to change this situation with this new ability.
Not bad at all. Redistributing wounds to chastise a specific annoying Dwarf seems great.

But I'd prefer, if is possible to make a good and simple skill, a skill related to the number of cards in the dead pile. To show the weight of carrying The Quest further in despite of those who were killed because of it... men and women, young and old; and Thorin, Fili and Kili of course. Do you remember that eldery lady that tries to hide from Smaug's flames behind a wooden pillar? (0:03:09 in both versions of the BotFA.) That's the feeling I want to portray.
(You might even use that old lady's picture for this card, although the maneuver action would lose its connection to the picture...)

Perhaps something like this: "While you can spot X cards in the dead pile, each [Dwarven] companion (except Thorin) is strength -X (limit -3)." That excludes Gandalf (strong heart), Bilbo (would be too vulnerable) and Thorin (he's too obsessed with his mission). But the other Dwarves feel horrible and weep instead of fighting...

- The Orc Army and Orkish Purser (too strong with Wargs Shadow).
Totally agree! :up:

- Simpler Shadow Ring of Thror (same as Saruman's Staff).
I like it a lot! Sauron needed a damage bonus so badly (even [Sauron] Azog and Bolg have one), and that bonus will absorb the vitality bonus of the Staff if Gandalf faces him. =D>

- New Stone Giants. FP player tends to kill some companions and replace them with new ones.
I like it. But there is a thing that worries me a bit. That wording is open to confusion, some players might think that you can exert the same companion once for each card in the dead pile... this should solve that issue: "Maneuver: Discard this condition and spot X cards in the dead pile to exert X companions."

- New The Carrock. The Wizard Staff was too hard to play.
Do you mean the Staff is hard to play, because it gets discarded at site 5 along with Gandalf? Then it might spot any [Gandalf] artifact, to include Glamdring and even Narya. Now, that new mechanic doesn't fit the flavor of The Carrock (which is related to Beorn, Eagles and perhaps Radagast). You can change its name and picture to "Beorn's House" to solve that problem.

If you use this site's ability and move to Dol Guldur, you'll be forced to exert 3 companions (it'll be the only option left). If you replace "to make Gandalf unable to be discarded" with "to prevent Gandalf from being discarded", you'll be able to choose to discard Gandalf but then that will be prevented. (That doesn't mean you can use Friend of Thorin's wounding skill with no limits, its cost will be prevented so the effect will be cancelled.)

A last thing: being only a Fellowship action, it forces you to stay at site 4. If you change it to a "Fellowship or Regroup" action (like Pathfinder), you'll be able to keep Gandalf if you double move...

Beorn's House
Site 4   Shadow Number 4
Forest. Fellowship or Regroup: Spot a [Gandalf] artifact to prevent Gandalf from being discarded until the end of the turn.


I hope you're all right.
I'm alright after all, thanks! The same I wish for you, my friend!
« Last Edit: January 24, 2016, 09:37:35 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

January 24, 2016, 10:14:19 PM
Reply #294

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #294 on: January 24, 2016, 10:14:19 PM »
- Crown of Erebor: I like a lot this card's goals :up:. Anyway, there are some little changes I'd make:

1.- The twilight cost is too low. If the Kingdom under the Mountain is restored, that should be in the top news of every culture's newspaper. (In the book, that's part of the reason why the Goblins attack the Mountain, while its gold is still vulnerable.) [3] would be much better.

2.- Dáin isn't a good replacement for Thorin, mainly because he can't bear followers (the only thing he can bear is a Dwarven Spear). So I'd add a line to make Dáin strength +2, or to make [Dwarven] allies may bear [Dwarven] followers.

3.- Thorin and Dáin were reinforced by any exiled Dwarf that joined them, and not merely by Roäc and the allies he could summon (like when Kili, Fili and Bofur joined them at Erebor). And the other Dwarf companions were rejoiced too. So I'd change the healing line, to heal only 1 Dwarf character, but each time you play any [Dwarven] follower. That would give more uses to To Me, O My Kinsfolk, and make it more attractive when drafting.

The assignment line seems perfect. Dáin and the Iron Hills Army will fight if Thorin dies (or if you insanely don't pack him in your deck, or play him at the start!). But they won't take arrows, which seems very balanced.


[3]Crown of Erebor [Dwarven]
Artifact • Support Area
[Dwarven] followers may be borne by [Dwarven] allies.
Each time you play a [Dwarven] follower, you may heal a [Dwarven] character.
Assignment: If you cannot spot Thorin, [Dwarven] allies may participate in skirmishes.


A last thing. When beheaded at the Dimrill Dale in the film, Thrór was wearing a golden crown identical to this crown. Much later, Thorin finds this one after recovering Erebor. Perhaps we might make another Crown with a different card title, to be borne by Thorin and give him some skills (and discard it to "remove a doubt" or so, as he does before joining the Battle of the Five Armies)... That, of course, would be in another Pack or Extension.

(I made one time ago, posted it here as "Thrór's Raven Crown")
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 04:30:34 AM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

January 25, 2016, 11:13:28 AM
Reply #295

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #295 on: January 25, 2016, 11:13:28 AM »
Ok I change Such a High Cost for your version.

Same thing for Stone Giants.

Ok for the Beorn's House, sounds better. But I want to keep the ability only with [Gandalf] staff in order to make the [Gandalf] staff really important, and useful. Moreover, if the Gandalf can avoid too easily his discard of the site 5, all the Gandalf characters could be unbalanced (the undiscarded one will be useless).

For the Crown of Erebor, ok I will keep in mind your idea of the Thrór's crown. I only change the cost of the card, I think Roac must be really important (with King Under the Mountain !!!), and you're right I still want a more attractive To Me, O My Kinsfolk ;).
If Thorin is dead, the Dwarves are in bad shape. So I don't want another big Thorin-like in the company. Only a standard Dwarf character.


Thank you a lot for your answer. I also change the Azog's Mace to use the wounds on Bilbo.
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January 25, 2016, 03:02:34 PM
Reply #296

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #296 on: January 25, 2016, 03:02:34 PM »
Ok I change Such a High Cost for your version.
:up:. It's both very powerful and very costly. And Bilbo isn't affected, so he still can ditch it with Sting + a [Dwarven] event to help his friends. Then Danger Wrapped in Shadows can get it back... I believe it's balanced.

Same thing for Stone Giants.
:up:

Ok for the Beorn's House, sounds better. But I want to keep the ability only with [Gandalf] staff in order to make the [Gandalf] staff really important, and useful. Moreover, if the Gandalf can avoid too easily his discard of the site 5, all the Gandalf characters could be unbalanced (the undiscarded one will be useless).
Seems fine. Gandalf Leader of the Company has the same problem with Narya's response action (redundancy), so it's a good idea to allow more loose ends instead of such an easy protection. :up:

Talking about Staves... you specified "[Gandalf] staff". That reminds me that there were at least 2 other staves in the films that weren't a Wizard Staff: [Dwarven] Óin's fighting staff, and [Shire] Bilbo's walking stick. We might develop those into new cards.

For the Crown of Erebor, ok I will keep in mind your idea of the Thrór's crown. I only change the cost of the card, I think Roac must be really important (with King Under the Mountain !!!), and you're right I still want a more attractive To Me, O My Kinsfolk ;).
If Thorin is dead, the Dwarves are in bad shape. So I don't want another big Thorin-like in the company. Only a standard Dwarf character.
Cool for the potential of a Thrór's Crown card! ;D

Hmmm, you are right, Dáin shouldn't be so powerful as Thorin, due to both flavor and game imbalances. But if Thorin is dead/absent, then the Company will answer to Dáin's command, and as such he should be able to bear followers like Óin or Bombur. Keep in mind those followers won't be new resources, but the same old resources The Company must share (often no more than 3 Dwarf followers due to Orkish Marauder; the pack provides only Roäc as a non-Dwarf follower). So a follower that goes to Dáin, is a follower that doesn't go to help Bilbo, Dwalin, Kili...

I agree that the Iron Hills Army might be too strong if is allowed to bear [Dwarven] followers (str 9 -or 11 with a spear-, dmg+1, PLUS followers...). But Dáin's attributes are a bit weak, and lacks a damage bonus... he's too different from the Dáin made by PJ/Billy Connolly who knocked out Orcs much larger than he with only his bare forehead.

So I'd try with this proposal:

[3]Crown of Erebor [Dwarven]
Artifact • Support Area
Dain Ironfoot may bear [Dwarven] followers.
Each time you play Roäc, you may heal a [Dwarven] ally and a [Dwarven] companion.
Assignment: If you cannot spot Thorin, [Dwarven] allies may participate in skirmishes.

3 twilight, followers on Dain only, and Roäc only healing an ally and a companion of your choice. Dáin will be "only a standard Dwarf character" as you said, not more powerful that Balin.

I also change the Azog's Mace to use the wounds on Bilbo.
That's interesting. The skill of the Mace was a bit redundant with that of Azog Servant of Sauron. I think it's ok. Besides, Azog menaced Bilbo at the Wooded Cliff, seems representative of that part. I wonder if it's OP with a mount to boost Azog's vitality. But besides that, :up:.

There's a wording mistake. Azog's Mace is a possession, so the Regroup action must say "Exert bearer" instead of "Exert this minion". That's all.

Thank you a lot for your answer.
Makes me glad to help you with this project. ;)
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 03:05:43 PM by Durin's Heir »
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January 25, 2016, 05:21:01 PM
Reply #297

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #297 on: January 25, 2016, 05:21:01 PM »
The Last Lights of Durin's Day: The condition is easier to understand but far too dense and long. We need a more playable card:
- with a maximum of one sentence with a passive ability and one sentence with an actve ability (maximum 5 lines for all)
- without any 'or' or 'and', the goal of a card must be immediatly read.

I propose:

• The Last Lights of Durin's Day : Cost (2). [No culture] Condition • Support area.
You may exert a [Dwarven] companion at the end of each turn during which the fellowship didn't move more than once.
Shadow: Heal a [Dwarven] companion to play this condition from your discard pile.
"'It is our one chance to find the hidden door.'"

- The Last Lights of Durin's Day: Hmmm, exerting a Dwarf companion doesn't make much sense to me, this card should push for doubts. And should do something with those doubts. The replaying skill looks fabulous, but the phase doesn't fit I think... Let me explain in further detail:

1.- This condition MUST be related to doubts. The more doubts, the less likely they will risk their necks in a long dangerous journey, just to pass the Front Gate and wake a fire-breathing Dragon. Something like The Ring Draws Them: "Each time the fellowship moves, add [1] for each doubt you can spot".
Thorin: "This is ill news. Summer is passing. Durin's Day will soon be upon us."

2.- The punishment for not moving twice MUST add doubts (at least). If they don't move fast enough, they just won't reach Erebor at time. They know it too well and worries them so much.
Kili: "And if we do not? If we fail to find the hidden door before that time?"
Fili: "Then this Quest has been for nothing."


3.- The moving punishment must apply until site 7 only. They were very hurried to get to Erebor but not further. After passing the Secret Door they were very stealthy (to not wake the Dragon); after Smaug's death they didn't even want to move at all from their reclaimed realm, moreover when the Siege of Erebor begun.
Thorin: "It means, master Baggins, you should never underestimate Dwarves. We have reclaimed Erebor. Now we defend it.

4.- The replaying skill must work at Regroup. Just before it triggers, to maintain The Company under pressure of double moving. I really love your healing replaying-cost, it's a magnificent idea, feels like they have a second wind, forced by their Royal responsability of restoring Durin's Folk's ancient glory. But should be a Regroup action, not a Shadow one, to keep the pressure AND to reap the twilight made by doubts at the next Shadow phase (this turn or the next).


[2]The Last Lights of Durin's Day [No culture]
Condition • Support area
Each time the fellowship moves, add [1] for each doubt you can spot.
At sites 1 to 7, at the end of each turn in which the fellowship didn't move more than once, add a doubt and exert Thorin.
Regroup: Heal a [Dwarven] companion to play this condition from your discard pile.
"'It is our one chance to find the hidden door.'"

Some parts can be changed without problems. "And exert Thorin" can be removed (as you didn't want to include any "or" or "and"), and the Regroup skill might heal 2 [Dwarven] companions if it's too powerful. The twilight addition can have a limit, there's enough space in that line.

I know those are 2 passive skills + 1 active. But both passive work with doubts, so the purpose shouldn't be hard to understand; can also be considered as 2 parts of the same skill (one sows, the other reaps). And the active skill is really plain to understand, just keeps the condition on the board.

Those are 8 card lines (7 game text + 1 lore). But it's a Smaug non-culture card, those cards can have 8 lines without any problem. Hope you like it.
« Last Edit: January 25, 2016, 05:28:47 PM by Durin's Heir »
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January 26, 2016, 01:27:34 AM
Reply #298

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #298 on: January 26, 2016, 01:27:34 AM »
Ok, I correct the Azog's Mace and I change the Beorn's House for a simpler version to use (I wasn't sure if the FP player has many chances to get the Wizard Staff before site 4).

Your version of the Corwn of Erebor seems too powerful, if you can heal any [Dwarven] ally and any [Dwarven] companion by playing Roäc, you will have some insane combos (with Thorin ability and To Me O My Kinsfolk) to heal many wounds as you want. If the healing ability is only focused on 2 characters, we will avoid this.
Dain is as strong as Balin and Dwalin without followers. For the game, I think 2 participating allies for each remaining site are strong enough.
The cost of the Crown is now the same as the cost of the Arkenstone.
Sorry, but I want to first test this version of the Crown before changing it.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 01:29:11 AM by -Enola- »
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January 26, 2016, 01:00:21 PM
Reply #299

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #299 on: January 26, 2016, 01:00:21 PM »
I'd like to hear what you think about that last suggestion for The Last Lights of Durin's Day.

...

Ok, I correct the Azog's Mace and I change the Beorn's House for a simpler version to use (I wasn't sure if the FP player has many chances to get the Wizard Staff before site 4).
:up: for both! Beorn's House looks very good. As a phase action, you can play more than 1 staff if you have 2 on the deck + Radagast/Saruman on the board. I think that's a good side effect. Players must beware only of not playing all staves before reaching Site 4, otherwise a staff played on Gandalf at sites 1 to 3 will be discarded along with him.

Your version of the Crown of Erebor seems too powerful, if you can heal any [Dwarven] ally and any [Dwarven] companion by playing Roäc, you will have some insane combos (with Thorin ability and To Me O My Kinsfolk) to heal many wounds as you want. If the healing ability is only focused on 2 characters, we will avoid this.
Hmmm, you are right, healing an ally and a companion is too strong. Perhaps healing only 1 [Dwarven] character, when playing that specific unique follower... that way Roäc's skills would be: 1. play a Dwarf ally; 2. make a Dwarf ally fight; and now 3. play him to heal a Dwarf.

To Me! O My Kinsfolk! is as situational as any other event, and there won't be many copies in the deck. This freedom of healing gives that event much more usefulness and versatility.

Dain is as strong as Balin and Dwalin without followers. For the game, I think 2 participating allies for each remaining site are strong enough.
The cost of the Crown is now the same as the cost of the Arkenstone.
Hmmm, yes, he's as strong as the sons of Fundin, but unlike Dwalin he lacks damage bonus. And the Dwarven Spears will be used by Dwalin, Balin or the Iron Hills Army before reaching Dain's hands. There are very little minions with strength less than 7, so Dain will lose all skirmishes without bearing followers, save for those few copies of Battle Fury. All in all, he doesn't seem as Tolkien's Dain (who defeated Azog), nor as PJ's Dain, that's all.

For flavor's sake, I'd add a line to either make "Dain Ironfoot may bear [Dwarven] followers", or "Dain Ironfoot is strength +1".

Sorry, but I want to first test this version of the Crown before changing it.
Ok, that's exactly what Galileo would suggest. :up: ;)

...

- The Shadow Arkenstone: The last version doesn't convince me (it should work by the old "Divide and Rule"), though it has some good points. You mentioned (months ago) that a strength reduction makes clear it is a Shadow card and not a FP one. Agree, so incorpored that point. The same about a resistance bonus being unimportant. You also said it must be simple, and this new proposal is simpler than all my previous ones:


[2]The Arkenstone, King's Jewel [No Culture]
Artifact
Strength -1
Plays on Bilbo.
If bearer is Thorin, Elves and Men are strength -3; otherwise, Bilbo and all [Dwarven] characters are strength -1.
Bilbo, Bard and Thorin gain this ability: "Maneuver: Add 2 doubts to transfer the Arkenstone to this character".
"'What is that? In your hand... Show me!'"

Not limited to "sites 7 to 9". I think it's much easier to understand. It says directly what consequences will be in each case.

So if bearer is:
1) Bilbo: All Dwarves are strength -1. Bilbo is strength -2
2) Bard: All Dwarves are strength -1. Bilbo is strength -1. Bard is strength -1. +2 doubts.
3) Thorin: Thorin is strength -1. Elves and Men are strength -3! +2 doubts.

1) Bilbo: He'll have huge overwhelming risks with that strength -2 (-1 for bearing it, -1 for not being borne by Thorin). His companions will also suffer a strength -1, helping Beatdown and Grind shadows.

2) Bard: Same as above, except that Bilbo gets less overwhelming risk (but Thorin still wants to cast him out from the barricade!), and Thorin becomes Bard's enemy, so -1 strength to Bard. And the coruption risk of those 2 doubts added by the way.

3) Thorin: Of all companions, only he will be strength -1. But Elves and Men lose all negotiation potential and won't help or will be destroyed (only Thranduil won't be easily overwhelmed; cards like Bolg SoS and Such a High Cost will feast on dead allies). The Company is all by itself. And with 2 doubts more.

In any of those 3 cases, Thorin will be strength -1, and that's always good for the Shadow player.

Hope you like.
« Last Edit: January 26, 2016, 01:39:48 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X