Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game

[-Enola-]

I will print the cards at the beginning of the next week, so don't wait too much to give me your opinion on the cards.

[-Enola-]

He Is Summoning His Servants: The "Wise allies" part has a problem, the condition is in the support area of the Shadow player, the FP player will rarely remind he can use the Wise allies. I will delete this part (there is a lot of
misunderstandings and oversights with this key card) for a simple one like: "This condition is twilight cost +2 for each Wise character you can spot." and it will cost now.

[Durin's Heir]

I'm sorry for this long absence . I just answered your PM in detail. Hope it's not too late...


- He Is Summoning His Servants: I don't like the idea of not including Wise allies in the fight. Sauron & the Nazgûl never met the Company in the book and films, and that was Gandalf's plan precisely:

"Time was getting short. I had to be with the White Council in August at the latest, or Saruman would have his way and nothing would be done... that might prove fatal to the quest: the power in Dol Guldur would not leave any attempt on Erebor unhindered, unless he had something else to deal with."

As you say, it's problematic that the skill is in the Shadow player's support area. But that's worsened by being "a passive skill of one player that provides an active skill to the other". Too complex to remember well. So perhaps it'll be better as a direct passive skill and nothing more: the old "Wise allies may be assigned to skirmish or minions".

In absence of a cost to assign Wise allies, there should be a punishment, like "Each time a Wise ally loses a skirmish, you may exert a companion". That new version I propose would look like this (changes are underlined):

He Is Summoning His Servants
Condition • Support Area
Wise allies may be assigned to skirmish or minions.
Each time a Wise ally loses a skirmish, you may exert a companion.
Shadow: Discard an Orc from hand to play a minion from your discard pile.
"...Who, above all else, desire power."

The effect of multiple copies stacks. The cost of balances that.

I insist: the Wise must be present in the struggle against the Nazgûl.


- Balin: To change Balin means changing 8 cards (per 8 players), NOT 16. It's true that Balin is important for the Wizard and White Council packs, but those aren't packs. He should be even more important for his own people. With that new skill, Balin would have important synergies with the Thorin, Thráin and Dain packs:

- In Thorin's, Dwarven Song discards a follower at regroup, which would be recovered by "Balin + To Me! O My Kinsfolk!" in that same phase. Lower cost.
- In Thráin's, Du Bekâr often discards followers. So "Balin + To Me! O My Kinsfolk!" can make Du Bekâr much easier to play.
- In Dáin's, Ironfoot can discard a follower to remove a minion, and again "Balin + To Me! O My Kinsfolk!" (or in this case, "Balin + King Under the Mountain" too) can recover that (or another) follower.

Regardless of FP packs, that new skill makes double moves more attractive and promotes cycling. Besides, in respect of lore, I believe such a change is important for Balin as he was a close friend of those 3. He was companion of Thráin (1st Quest of Erebor) and Thorin (the 2nd), and a close counsellor of them both and Dáin. Balin should interact strongly with them.

Such skill helps Ori too. Ori draws cards, and this change allows more cards to be played post-fellowship phase.

[-Enola-]

- He Is Summoning His Servants: I don't like the idea of not including Wise allies in the fight. Sauron & the Nazgûl never met the Company in the book and films, and that was Gandalf's plan precisely:

"Time was getting short. I had to be with the White Council in August at the latest, or Saruman would have his way and nothing would be done... that might prove fatal to the quest: the power in Dol Guldur would not leave any attempt on Erebor unhindered, unless he had something else to deal with."

As you say, it's problematic that the skill is in the Shadow player's support area. But that's worsened by being "a passive skill of one player that provides an active skill to the other". Too complex to remember well. So perhaps it'll be better as a direct passive skill and nothing more: the old "Wise allies may be assigned to skirmish or minions".

In absence of a cost to assign Wise allies, there should be a punishment, like "Each time a Wise ally loses a skirmish, you may exert a companion". That new version I propose would look like this (changes are underlined):

He Is Summoning His Servants
Condition • Support Area
Wise allies may be assigned to skirmish or minions.
Each time a Wise ally loses a skirmish, you may exert a companion.
Shadow: Discard an Orc from hand to play a minion from your discard pile.
"...Who, above all else, desire power."

The effect of multiple copies stacks. The cost of balances that.

I insist: the Wise must be present in the struggle against the Nazgûl.

I'm sorry but this text is too long (4 lines) and the card starts with a FP player ability, this could be confusing.

I know this could be very cool to see Wise allies skirmishing Nazguls, but FP player abilities (even passive) seem too complicated for players learning a new game with many new cards. I prefer a simple ability (like the one I proposed) with a negative effect depending on Wise allies. Tell me if you have other ideas.

- Balin: To change Balin means changing 8 cards (per 8 players), NOT 16. It's true that Balin is important for the Wizard and White Council packs, but those aren't packs. He should be even more important for his own people. With that new skill, Balin would have important synergies with the Thorin, Thráin and Dain packs:

- In Thorin's, Dwarven Song discards a follower at regroup, which would be recovered by "Balin + To Me! O My Kinsfolk!" in that same phase. Lower cost.
- In Thráin's, Du Bekâr often discards followers. So "Balin + To Me! O My Kinsfolk!" can make Du Bekâr much easier to play.
- In Dáin's, Ironfoot can discard a follower to remove a minion, and again "Balin + To Me! O My Kinsfolk!" (or in this case, "Balin + King Under the Mountain" too) can recover that (or another) follower.

Regardless of FP packs, that new skill makes double moves more attractive and promotes cycling. Besides, in respect of lore, I believe such a change is important for Balin as he was a close friend of those 3. He was companion of Thráin (1st Quest of Erebor) and Thorin (the 2nd), and a close counsellor of them both and Dáin. Balin should interact strongly with them.

Such skill helps Ori too. Ori draws cards, and this change allows more cards to be played post-fellowship phase.

The current Balin is really good. I always start with him with the new Friend of Thorin. I see him as a learned Dwarf, able to  react wisely against a new threat.


I will probably print the cards tomorrow.

[Durin's Heir]

- Wise allies facing Nazguls: You said the problem relies on having the FP skill in the Shadow player's support area. Alright. What if that "pro Wise-ally" passive skill was in the Dol Guldur Blade? It'd be in the middle of the board, so can be easily read by anyone (like players do with most weapons). "Wise allies may be assigned to skirmishes." (1 line.) It'd even have a strong flavor, as the Morgul Blade found by Radagast in the film is the main reason for Elrond, Gandalf and Radagast to worry about the Necromancer.

A card borne by a character in the middle of the board, just like the Shadow Arkenstone (or Decipher's Ancient Blade, Reckless Pride...). Perhaps allowing every Wise ally to fight is too much. So instead might allow them to be assigned only to the Nazgul holding the Blade: "Wise allies may be assigned to skirmish bearer" (2 lines). Or a bit shorter: "Wise allies may be assigned to bearer" (1 line).

But I still think that The Wise should be fighting Sauron and the Nazgul.


- Balin: Hmm, alright. Let it the way it is. I give up! The enhancements on Balin will be then in Balin's pack.

But I wonder what path will take that pack, because Balin has a past story with Thorin and Dwalin in Azanulbizar, but also a future story crossing Azanulbizar with Ori and Óin in the reconquest of Moria. A single pack might be too little for those 2 big stories...

[-Enola-]

I change the site Dol Guldur from the White Council Pack to make Wise allies participate in skirmishes.

[-Enola-]

I order all the cards fro the Clouds Burst today. Thank you a lot!

[Durin's Heir]

You're welcome my fellow! I'm glad this day came!

I think you should mention the changes on the 2 Gandalfs and 4 Bilbos. Besides that, the Updates.html page seems enough.

Cheers!

[-Enola-]

You're welcome my fellow! I'm glad this day came!

Yes, it took more than 18 months of test. I'm a perfectionist .

I think you should mention the changes on the 2 Gandalfs and 4 Bilbos. Besides that, the Updates.html page seems enough.

Ok, I did it.

[Durin's Heir]

So now that all is done with the new cultures, you'll for sure display the finished version of "The Clouds Burst" in a Tournament . Whenever it happens, have a good time!


I wonder when we'll begin the development of the 2nd Extension Set...

I also wonder if we could make a Swarm pack 3 (besides the Beatdown pack 3). There's plenty of material to develop new cultures and subcultures... Goblin-town Archery, Gundabad Warg minions, Dol Guldur Orcs (Orc Soldier style), Spiders transferring Web conditions (like Black Breath / Blade Tip, or like Uruk Searcher and tracker conditions)...

Given the themes and subcultures of those 4 FP packs and the Beatdown pack 3, I believe the name "The Road Goes Ever On" will fit well for that Extension. There'll be good and evil Elves in the road, a Lake-town and their abusive police force, Dwarves travelling for revenge, Giants emerging from the mountains... everything SCREAMS the word "road" to me!!

[-Enola-]

So now that all is done with the new cultures, you'll for sure display the finished version of "The Clouds Burst" in a Tournament . Whenever it happens, have a good time!


I wonder when we'll begin the development of the 2nd Extension Set...

Thank you a lot  .

I will not start the 2nd Extension Set before the Hobbit Draft Game will be on gemp. I need playtesters now, I spent a lot of time during my holidays playtesting the game, I don't want to spend so much time for the next cards. We really need it on gemp, we have to find a LOTR player who knows java and wants to put the Hobbit Draft Game on gemp.

I also wonder if we could make a Swarm pack 3 (besides the Beatdown pack 3). There's plenty of material to develop new cultures and subcultures... Goblin-town Archery, Gundabad Warg minions, Dol Guldur Orcs (Orc Soldier style), Spiders transferring Web conditions (like Black Breath / Blade Tip, or like Uruk Searcher and tracker conditions)...

Given the themes and subcultures of those 4 FP packs and the Beatdown pack 3, I believe the name "The Road Goes Ever On" will fit well for that Extension. There'll be good and evil Elves in the road, a Lake-town and their abusive police force, Dwarves travelling for revenge, Giants emerging from the mountains... everything SCREAMS the word "road" to me!!

Sure, we can make a Swarm Pack 3 (Goblin-town Archery and another Shadow seem great).

[Durin's Heir]

Thank you a lot  .

It's been truly an honour.

Sure, we can make a Swarm Pack 3 (Goblin-town Archery and another Shadow seem great).

Magnificent! That's something I wanted to hear so bad!

I will not start the 2nd Extension Set before the Hobbit Draft Game will be on gemp. I need playtesters now, I spent a lot of time during my holidays playtesting the game, I don't want to spend so much time for the next cards. We really need it on gemp...

Hmmm, ok. But we might at least draw some lines on what we want, and make some prototypes of the mechanics and cards. There's no urgent need to get the definite versions soon. We can create some prototypes, and if the incorporation on Gemp still doesn't happen (and thus the playtesting is frozen), we can use rough Truth Tables to foresee what fixes can be done on the potential imbalances that a playtest might find.

Something like "this minion might prove to be too powerful in a playtest. If a playtest is done and that happens to be true, we can: A) reduce its power this way, B) increase its cost that way, C) restrict its range of action that other way... That would save us some valuable time. And time is fuel for creativity.

But take your time, my friend. "'The time of my thought is my own to spend,' answered Dáin."

We have to find a LOTR player who knows java and wants to put the Hobbit Draft Game on gemp.

I PM'd Merrick and dmaz. Merrick says he lacks the knowledge (but wishes us luck in our venture, which is something I really appreciate). And dmaz hasn't answered yet...

I think we should move that problem outside this thread, into a specific thread to invite knowledgable people to participate. It must say it explicitly in the title... "Java Programmers needed for the Hobbit Draft Game", or so. The whole attention of the thread must be on the coding issue. And must be on Bag End (or anywhere else than Undying Lands), so that both members and guests can see it on this forum.

[-Enola-]

The next 4 supplementary packs will be done to balance (or make more useful) some cards. So, we need playtest first.

Good idea, I will create a thread soon. We also need to advertise it on gemp.

Nice to hear from Merrick . dmaz will never answer again: for 2 years, I sent him PM and e-mails (4-5 in total), but I got no answer....

[Durin's Heir]

Good idea, I will create a thread soon. We also need to advertise it on gemp.

Great! I'll be mentioning it on the Game Hall every now and then, with a link to the forum post...

Nice to hear from Merrick . dmaz will never answer again: for 2 years, I sent him PM and e-mails (4-5 in total), but I got no answer....

That's a bit sad about dmaz. Still hope he answers my PM. We worked together in the Towers Standard sealed league, and had good fun meanwhile, perhaps he recalls that glorious past and answers affirmatively... I prefer to not discard it. But can't rely on his answer only, can't just "put all eggs on the same basket"...

The next 4 supplementary packs will be done to balance (or make more useful) some cards. So, we need playtest first.

That's ok. But those are the FP packs only. We might work on the Shadow packs then. Not the definite versions, only the mechanics and the card prototypes. And then the card distribution: which Beatdown culture will get 10 cards, how many different cards per culture...

I have some ideas about the Goblin-town Archers mechanics. Do you remember the wound-evasion discussion when we were developing Bolg's Army? The problem with the FP wound remotion/prevention is still present, but I got some simple ways to allow Kili to block arrows (like a Jedi). Tell me if you are interested.

[-Enola-]

We can propose some cards, but keep in mind that the mechanics must use Shadows cards from the main deck and have simple mechanics.

I'm not sure about the wound-evasion discussion: it's replacing dead Dwarves by new healthy Dwarves ? If it's the case, Not At Home is really good for that.