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October 21, 2016, 07:43:13 AM
Reply #465

Phallen Cassidy

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #465 on: October 21, 2016, 07:43:13 AM »
- In a new main deck: key companions (Balin, Kili, Fili, Dwalin,.... Thorin?) will be only followers and not companions.

Well, That's what I'd meant. Balin, Dwalin, Kili, Fili, Nori, and Gloin become followers while Ori, Dori, Oin, Bifur, Bofur, and Bombur become companions. However, I understand your desire to keep the Draft game simple. In my opinion, you could keep the Draft game alive while creating a Constructed Hobbit game. I believe many players are like myself, and would prefer to play LotR with Hobbit cards - but I'd forgotten that this game is not meant to be a constructed game.Once I finish with The Short Rest, I'll ask Merrick about a Sealed league. If he's open to it, I can fairly easily create it and Merrick can have it played whenever he wants.

Further, I can look into creating a draft game for 2-8 players by mimicking the Daily Tournament format. I wouldn't get my hopes up for that as it's substantially more complicated than anything else I'm doing, but I might try after I'm done with the rest of the game.

October 22, 2016, 04:14:27 AM
Reply #466

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #466 on: October 22, 2016, 04:14:27 AM »
Sure, I could make other [Dwarven] companions. I think we should take about that after the first tests on gemp ;).

Further, I can look into creating a draft game for 2-8 players by mimicking the Daily Tournament format. I wouldn't get my hopes up for that as it's substantially more complicated than anything else I'm doing, but I might try after I'm done with the rest of the game.

Great! That would be awesome ;). But you are right, there are not the primary objectives at the moment: track the errors+balance the constructed formats.
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October 22, 2016, 08:24:37 AM
Reply #467

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #467 on: October 22, 2016, 08:24:37 AM »
Don't know yet, I think now that the bottom deck strategy should be only part of the [Evil Men] Shadow. It will be weird to see [Evil Men] Men and Stone-Giants working together.

Maybe "To play, discard a [Moria] card". There will be [Moria] cards in each Swarm Pack. And damage +1.
Weird indeed. Although I don't think Giants and Men will work well together (Giants won't leave twilight to play Men + more Orcs; also the Giants' "orc-cost" is enough to make Boulder Rock work well). But still is better to separate resources.

Now, "discard a [Moria] card" isn't a good idea, there's just too few. Beatdown pack 3 can have synergies with Swarm packs (you know I love cross-pack interactions), but needs to be able to stand on its own legs, in case of a 2-players Draft game where those synergies simply won't be possible.

This should be better: "To play, return your Orc to your hand." Has good flavor (orcs retreat when a monster appears), and alike the current is easy to understand and reduces swarms. But has 2 advantages: uses 1 line less, and lowers the practical twilight cost (since Yazneg can be replayed immediatly). Then Men would use the bottom of the deck, Giants'd use cards in hand, and Elves another resource like Orcs in play. Or even use different site keywords...

Boulder Rock can be adapted to discard random Shadow cards from hand, since many Orcs will return to hand. To increase even more the ratio of Shadow to FP cards in hand, you can ditch 3 FP cards to replay an Orc (and then return it with a Giant's play cost).


(0) Boulder Rock [Moria]
Possession
Vitality +1
Bearer must be a Troll or a [Moria] Giant.
Archery: Discard this possession to discard up to 3 cards at random from hand. For each Shadow card discarded in this way, the minion archery total is +1."
"...splintered into little bits with a bang."

Since discarding cards at random can undermine your own FP or Shadow strategies, this gives you the control at least on how many you'll discard. Given the higher cost and the randomness, this version increases only the minion archery.


We need more Trolls! For sure, the Blue Mountains Pack will contain one. Maybe also another one ? A "Catapult Troll" will be great :).
Great! I still don't know what should be doing this "Catapult Troll" (probably discard FP support cards at battlegrounds).

If you want more Trolls, there's the funny one that headbutts the wall of Dale (and falls uncounscious), and some "armoured trolls". But I like better the troll that carries the ladder bridge at the frozen river (EE only). Such "Bridging Troll" would allow orcs to cross more easily (1st skill), and also in larger numbers (2nd skill)...


[6] Bridging Troll [Moria]

Minion • Troll
Strength 12  Vitality 4  Site 4
Damage +1.
Shadow: Play an Orc to add [1].
Shadow: Exert this minion twice and remove [X] to play X Orcs from your discard pile.
"Two great trolls appeared; they bore great slabs of stone, and flung them down to serve as gangways..."

Just a prototype. If you have a certain amount of twilight, the 2nd skill can replay 1 expensive orc, 2 mid-cost orcs, 3 little orcs... the more orcs you try to play, the less twilight you'll have to play them. So should work well with both Swarm and Beatdown decks. After using such skill, arrows can bring it down (like in the film)...


Sure, I could make other [Dwarven] companions. I think we should take about that after the first tests on gemp ;).
Time ago, I thought of a way of including alternative versions of companions. Those would use FP cards slots in Supplementary packs. Obviously, they would have new skills. But those skills would be designed in such way that may be used with either the new or the Main deck version... This is what I had for Gandalf (I know, he has already 4 versions...):


[4]Gandalf, Troublemaker [Gandalf]
Companion • Wizard
Strength 7  Vitality 4
Wise.
Fellowship: Exert Gandalf (or discard this card from hand) to play a Dwarf companion or Dwarf follower from your draw deck (limit twice per phase).

A Gandalf that plays followers and companions. So you can play this Troublemaker as companion and use the skill whenever you want, or have another version of Gandalf in play and use this the same way as the usual "discard another copy to heal". The same can be done with other companions like Thorin ("King in Exile"?), or with [Dwarven] followers...


[2]Óin, Wise Veteran [Dwarven]
Companion • Dwarf
Strength 6  Vitality 3
Damage +1.
At the start of each of your turns, you may add [2] to heal a companion.
Skirmish: Exert Óin (or discard this card from hand) to heal an exhausted Dwarf companion and remove [1].
"I'll stay with the lad. My duty lies with the wounded."

Emergency mid-skirmish healing (and some twilight remotion). Mighty with Dwalin, Glóin, Fili...

So guys... what do you think?
« Last Edit: October 22, 2016, 10:47:29 AM by Durin's Heir »
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October 23, 2016, 12:58:48 AM
Reply #468

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #468 on: October 23, 2016, 12:58:48 AM »
This should be better: "To play, return your Orc to your hand." Has good flavor (orcs retreat when a monster appears), and alike the current is easy to understand and reduces swarms. But has 2 advantages: uses 1 line less, and lowers the practical twilight cost (since Yazneg can be replayed immediatly). Then Men would use the bottom of the deck, Giants'd use cards in hand, and Elves another resource like Orcs in play. Or even use different site keywords...

Boulder Rock can be adapted to discard random Shadow cards from hand, since many Orcs will return to hand. To increase even more the ratio of Shadow to FP cards in hand, you can ditch 3 FP cards to replay an Orc (and then return it with a Giant's play cost).


(0) Boulder Rock [Moria]
Possession
Vitality +1
Bearer must be a Troll or a [Moria] Giant.
Archery: Discard this possession to discard up to 3 cards at random from hand. For each Shadow card discarded in this way, the minion archery total is +1."
"...splintered into little bits with a bang."

Since discarding cards at random can undermine your own FP or Shadow strategies, this gives you the control at least on how many you'll discard. Given the higher cost and the randomness, this version increases only the minion archery.

"To play, return your Orc to your hand." It think it's a great idea with the new Boulder Rock, but we had a similar strategy with the Nazguls at a moment, and it makes the game lasts longer: play an Orc, then return it in hand to play another minion.... We will test it. And the Stone Giants are now damage +1?

(0) Boulder Rock [Moria]
Possession
Vitality +1
Bearer must be a Troll or a Giant.
Archery: Discard this possession to discard 2 cards at random from hand. For each Shadow card discarded in this way, the minion archery total is +1.
"...splintered into little bits with a bang."

Great! But I prefer a fixed number of cards to discard (not "up to X").

[6] Bridging Troll [Moria]
Minion • Troll
Strength 12  Vitality 4  Site 4
Damage +1.
Shadow: Play an Orc to add [1].
Shadow: Exert this minion twice and remove [X] to play X Orcs from your discard pile.
"Two great trolls appeared; they bore great slabs of stone, and flung them down to serve as gangways..."

Great! Really good in both Swarm Pack and Beatdown Pack. Maybe a bit too strong.

We will put this Troll in the Balin Pack or in the Blue Mountains Pack? Maybe Balin and another Troll in the Blue Mountains Pack?

Time ago, I thought of a way of including alternative versions of companions. Those would use FP cards slots in Supplementary packs. Obviously, they would have new skills. But those skills would be designed in such way that may be used with either the new or the Main deck version... This is what I had for Gandalf (I know, he has already 4 versions...):

In order to be able to play all 15 characters of the company (Bilbo+Gandalf+13 Dwarves), I made some [Dwarven] characters as followers. Moreover, the crowd control begins at 7 companions (not at 6 like LOTR TCG), that way we have the feeling of a bigger company.

I think [Dwarven] companions in the boosters will unbalanced the draft game.
« Last Edit: October 23, 2016, 01:08:59 AM by -Enola- »
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November 02, 2016, 04:38:12 PM
Reply #469

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #469 on: November 02, 2016, 04:38:12 PM »
I'm sorry for this absence. The same as usually... lately health and energy have been low, while daily activities have been demanding. But nothing that could ever threaten to kill me. "I'm born to rock and roll, I'm here to stay" says an old anthem...

"To play, return your Orc to your hand." It think it's a great idea with the new Boulder Rock, but we had a similar strategy with the Nazguls at a moment, and it makes the game lasts longer: play an Orc, then return it in hand to play another minion.... We will test it.
I think it'll be OK, as depends on the number of minions played. Nazguls can be played 2 per site somewhat easily. But will be hard to play more than 1 Giant per site (before region 3). Thus less Orcs are returned to hand. Also, Nazguls then had skills that costed to discard Orcs from hand (unlike Giants); with 9 different Nazguls and 1 weapon, having to decide whether to spend the Orcs in hand here or there must have lengthened the game a lot.

Giants are much simpler: the Orc is played, and then goes to hand when you play a Giant. Are more expensive, and don't have skills that require specifically to discard Orcs. Still, if happens to lengthen too much the game, you can change it to "To play, discard an Orc."


And the Stone Giants are now damage +1?
That'd be OK but will require to reduce the archery power, to not flood too easily the Company with wounds. That, or increase the twilight cost. But if they'd cost more, it'd be too hard to play enough Giants at the late game. At region 2, playing 1 Giant per site can be enough to get good stopping power and some grind, but at region 3 stopping power won't be that relevant (you simply need to kill). So it's really important to keep them cheap enough at region 3 (but not too cheap)...

Lurtz SoI can be used as a reference (archer, dmg+1 and his strength is similar): ugly and frightening, delivers 3 wounds for 7 twilight, or 5 wounds for 9+ (fierce). But being damage +1, he often overwhelms weak guys if the stronger defenders don't have 3+ vitality to withstand him. He can easily become fierce, which doubles that overwhelming power. Almost all Dwarves here will have vitality 3, which makes them unable to take 1 arrow and then survive a skirmish to a dmg+1 Giant, even if aren't overwhelmed.

Giants won't become fierce, happily. I think Giants shouldn't deliver more than 4 wounds each, to allow the total cost (Giant + Orc) to be kept moderate as is it (between [5] and [7]) so you can play regularly 2 per site in region 3. Therefore, the "limit +X" would need to be reduced to 2 only (2 in skirmish, 2 in archery). If so, Boulder Rock will be the only way to increase the archery beyond that small limit.


- Boulder Rock: Ok for a fixed number. But I think 3 will be better than 2, to be worthy of the cost. Boulder Rock will often cost [3] (due to the Footman) if you play only 1 Giant, or [2] if you play 2 Giants (Footman costs +2 than Yazneg)... this is the order:

1) you play an Orc for [1] to [4],
2) you return it to play a Giant for [4] or [6],
3) you play the Footman for [3] to get the Boulder Rock from discard.
4) If you happen to have enough twilight, you can play a 2nd Giant for [4] ot [6] more (by returning the Footman).

In region 2 (artificial mountains) it's [7] for the Orcs + [4] to [6] = 11 to 13 twilight for "1 Giant + 1 Rock", or 15 to 19 for "2 Giants + 1 Rock". In region 3, you need 3 twilight less = 8 to 10 for "1 Giant + Rock", or 12 to 16 for "2 Giants +1 Rock". Finally, you may replay that Footman you just returned to hand, to get a total of "2 Giants + 2 replayed Boulder Rocks" for 18 to 22 at region 2, or 15 to 19 at region 3.

It's too much twilight for a single item, then it must worth it. And must be worthy of being discarded by a Troll (which don't have the Orc-returning mechanism to enrich the Shadow/FP cards ratio in hand, and may prefer to keep it for the extra vitality and better stopping power).


- Bridging Troll: It's similar to Ordnance Grunt (cost 6, str 12, dmg+1), but +1 vitality and -1 site number.  The 2nd skill may have a "limit 3", to prevent this sole card from flooding the board with Orcs if twilight is, let's say, 20 or more.

I don't know where it should go, it may be in Balin or Blue Mountains, but will depend on the needs of the pack. Probably in Blue Mountains, because you said you want that pack to impulse heavy [Dwarven] follower support and combos (which will be countering strongly both Beatdown and Swarm).


I think [Dwarven] companions in the boosters will unbalance the draft game.
Totally agree, will be hard to balance AND is not a priority now. I only wanted to post it because the issue was already mentioned, if someone wants to work with that idea. The idea was to make alternative versions that don't end up as dead cards due to the unique ruling (if a player still prefers to use the previous version). The new version'd still have usefulness when used by discarding, without interfering with the previous version in play.

Gandalf Troublemaker was meant as a support card to play [Dwarven] companions from deck, as you said you want. Another thing can take its place, like a [Dwarven] event perhaps titled "At Your Service!":

[1] At Your Service! [Dwarven]
Event • Fellowship
Exert Bilbo to play a [Dwarven] companion or a [Dwarven] follower from your draw deck.


Hope this helps. "Late is better than never", they say...
« Last Edit: November 02, 2016, 08:04:31 PM by Durin's Heir »
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November 03, 2016, 04:37:48 AM
Reply #470

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #470 on: November 03, 2016, 04:37:48 AM »
Ok for 3 instead of only 2 for the Boulder Rock.

What bothers me is the lack of interaction with Narzug in this Beatdown Pack 3. Maybe "To play, discard an Orc" then?

Ok for the limit on the Bridging Troll. It will probably be in the Balin Pack and another Troll in the Blue Mountains Pack, but not sure yet.

Can you give me some lore texts for each card of the Swarm Pack 3 and Beatdown Pack 3? I will make these cards soon, I will show them during the Hobbit Draft Game Tournament the 19 november.
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 04:40:59 AM by -Enola- »
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November 03, 2016, 01:38:51 PM
Reply #471

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #471 on: November 03, 2016, 01:38:51 PM »
What about the "limit +2" arrows for both Granite and Lavastone Giants? This point is really important. Let me know if you have a different idea.

- Narzug: Actually he CAN be triggered by Granite Giant: you can wound Narzug twice with the Giant's skill. Although the availability of twilight worries me, it's [2] for Narzug and [3] for the trigger, besides the expensive Giant + Orc cost. But the good side is that for [2] more than your idea, you'll have the advantage of absorbing 2 wounds of the archery skill's cost.

- Bridging Troll: When the development process of Balin and Blue Mountains begins, we'll see if this Troll fits better the needs of one or the other. I have no problem.


I'll be working on the lore text of all new Shadow packs. But, as a separate task, we must still define better the remaining 2 cultures: Evil Men and Mirkwood Elves. Both are OP in my opinion, but Men are much worse, the double exertion with Alfrid's Influence and 3 of 4 minions is too much. As those cards might change, then I'll be thinking in different lore texts using 1 and 2 lines, for each card.


- The Elvenking, Guardian: I like the Deceived Wizards mechanic you took. But I think some details require change:

1) He should be strength 11 but without damage bonus. Strength 9 is too easy to defeat, and though it can be very useful for swarms, it's not representative of his stature as swordsman. As a reference, there's 2 characters with Shadow versions made by Decipher: Gollum (str+2 than Sméagol) and Radagast Deceived (str+4 than Radagast). Decipher made all evil versions stronger than their respective nice guys. Another card in the pack might give him damage (or even a skill in this same Elvenking card).

2) The trigger can work in ways contrary to the story (such as Bilbo using the One Ring). I think it should be a maneuver skill with a cost, like "remove a doubt" or "discard an Orc". Discarding orcs reduces the swarm potential (a card that stays in support area is very good for that, but this is a Beatdown shadow), can be used to discard Narzug, and has the flavor of Thranduil killing the same foes as all other Free Peoples.

3) It's ok that he cannot take wounds (even if having 4 vitality for mere flavor), but "cannot bear other cards" is only wasting card room. Then he'd have 2 spare lines, for another skill or lore text.

Then, my version of The Elvenking would be like this:

[3]The Elvenking, Guardian of the Woodland Realm [Mirkwood]
Condition • Support Area
Skirmish: Remove 2 doubts to make a minion damage +1 (limit +1).
Maneuver: Discard an Orc to make this condition become until the end of the turn a fierce Elf minion that has 11 strength and 4 vitality and cannot take wounds. This card is still a condition.

The damage adding skill is to portray Thranduil letting the Orcs cross his borders, only to kill the escaping Dwarves; obviously can be used for himself too. If you want lore text instead of that underlined skill, can be any of these (I like best the 2nd):

- "...I will keep you all in prison until you have learned sense and manners!" (book)
- "Other lands are not my concern. The fortunes of the world will rise and fall..." (film)
- "I warned your grandfather of what his greed would summon... You are just like him." (film)
« Last Edit: November 03, 2016, 09:20:14 PM by Durin's Heir »
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November 06, 2016, 01:20:42 PM
Reply #472

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #472 on: November 06, 2016, 01:20:42 PM »
I remove the damage+1 bonuses of the Giants.

- Narzug: Right.

- Alfrid's Influence: I remove the first sentence.

- Elvenking: I choose a simpler version. I want only one ability.

All cards are on the first post.
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November 16, 2016, 02:57:03 PM
Reply #473

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #473 on: November 16, 2016, 02:57:03 PM »
Here are the lore texts suggestion for the Goblin-town Archers. The free room of each card is mentioned also.

- Goblin Bow: 2 free lines. This card currently lacks the "bearer must be" line.
    "Every moment they expected to feel the bite of black-feathered arrows. Many whined overhead..." (2 lines)
- Goblin Archer Troop: 4 free lines.
    "At that moment there was a twang of bowstrings: several arrows whistled over them, and some fell among them." (3 lines)
- Goblin Town Band: 4 free lines.
    "It was dark, but not too dark for the night-eyes of Orcs..." (2 lines)
- Goblin Town Archer: 4 free lines.
    "They did not halt until they were out of bowshot from the walls." (2 lines)

(All those are actually from the FotR book, while travelling in the Anduin...)

- Goblin Bonebreaker: 3 free lines.
    "...instruments of torture, they make very well, or get other people to make to their design, prisoners and slaves that have to work till they die for want of air..."
- The Great Goblin: 4 free lines (but you can still spend 1 or 2 for a short active skill). I like the text you chose, but I'd extend it to its full length:
    "Slash them! Beat them! Bite them! Gnash them! Take them away to dark holes full of snakes, and never let them see the light again!" (3 lines)

(Those are obviously from the Hobbit book)

Hope you like them. I have some loose ends to tie still, about the other cultures. Soon.
« Last Edit: November 16, 2016, 03:20:15 PM by Durin's Heir »
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November 17, 2016, 02:00:05 AM
Reply #474

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #474 on: November 17, 2016, 02:00:05 AM »
Thanks, I'll use them. In order to have max 2 lines of text (easier for me with gimp), I cut some of them.

Thank you for the error on the Goblin Bow. I correct it.
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November 29, 2016, 02:42:32 PM
Reply #475

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #475 on: November 29, 2016, 02:42:32 PM »
I'm sorry for this delay. Same as usually... :(

Ok for 2 lines. It makes also cards easier to change, in case you want or need to modify/add some game text. Here are 3 of the 4 missing cultures:


* Sauron Swarm Shadow:

- Hidden: You changed it from wounding to a powerful swarm fuel. I like it!  :up: 8-)
     - "Wait, Gandalf! What if it's a trap?!" (1 line, DoS)
- Rise of the Necromancer: 3 free lines.
     - "The East will fall... The time of the Elves is over. The Age of the Orc has come." (2 lines, BotFA) the text is trimmed, here's the original
     - "It has begun. The East will fall. So shall the Kingdom of Angmar rise. The time of the Elves is over. The Age of the Orc has come." (3 lines)
- Dark Sorcery: 3 free lines.
     - "These are dark spells... old and full of hate." (1 line, DoS)

- Orc Ambusher: 3 free lines.
     - "Something moves in the shadows unseen... It will not show itself... But every day it grows in strength." (2 lines, AUJ)
- Orc Sentinel: 3 free lines.
     - "If what you say is true, the world is in grave danger. The power in that fortress will only grow stronger." (2 lines, DoS)
- Malevolent Orc: 4 free lines.
     - "I saw them with my own eyes. Rank upon rank of Moria Orcs!" (2 lines, BotFA)


* Stone Giants Shadow:

Without the damage bonus, each Giant has 1 more line. So you might give Lavastone Giant the 1-line text that's currently on Granite Giant ("This is no thunderstorm. It's a thunder-battle!"), and then give the Granite Giant this longer text: "The lightning splinters on the peaks, and rocks shiver, and great crashes split the air..." (2 lines, from the book)


* Corrupted Men Shadow:

- Gangsquad Spies & Laketown Patrol: These should have their lore texts interchanged: "What are dwarves doing in these parts?" seems better for an informant than an authority, while "If you come in peace, lay down your weapons" is imperative and subtly menacing, better for someone who carries an uniform ;).

- Alfrid's Influence: These bullies are cool, but would be better if they'd interact with site keywords. Alfrid's Influence's passive skill might change from "The site number of each [Men] minion is -3" to "Each [Men] minion is site number -2 (and strength +1 if at a river or battleground)." It'd give usefulness to Watchful Orc, while triggering naturally at all sites 6 (and most 7 and 9, and even some 4 and 5).

Also, I'd make it non-unique so you can have more copies on the board (more reliable, providing also more fuel for Lavastone Giant ;)). Then the site-related strength bonus would stack (there'd be different degrees of Alfrid's domination :P). But that'd need to shorten the lore text to 1 line only:
     - "Someone's been stirring the pot, sire."
     - "You'd do well to remember: we know where you live." (though this'd need a different picture, at the Laketown Gate)

- We Caught Them Stealing Weapons: I'd rename it "Enemies of the State." I like the idea (besides, there was too many exerting Men), but +3 to ANY minion for each card borne by a companion is simply too much. It also lacks a spot requirement. This is what I'd do, somewhat similar to Men Will Fall:

[2] Enemies of the State [Men]
Event • Skirmish
Spot a [Men] Man to choose one: make a [Men] Man strength +3, or make a companion or ally strength -1 for each card he or she bears (except Bilbo).
"We caught them stealing weapons, Sire."

You need to keep the [Men] guy alive to use it with a minion of another culture. Therefore, it'll also synergize with Braga's lurker text.

- Gangsquad Spies If you are going to pack a Skirmish event, it'd be better to make the Spies take a [Men] card into hand than directly play it: "Shadow: Exert this minion and discard a Shadow card from hand to take into hand a [Men] card from your draw deck or discard pile."

As said above, the lore text should be the current of Laketown Patrol.

- Braga: :up: If there's a single Evil Man who should be fierce, that's Braga. Perhaps his vitality should be lower, since only direct wounding can counter him before he fights. A cool thing is that Iron-Forged Weapon does exactly that.


------------------------------------------------------------------

I still owe you the review of Mirkwood culture.

I noticed you are posting the prototypes of the new Supplementary packs, I have many ideas to post. But by now, I'll say only that'd like to see Musical Instruments in Balin's and Blue Mountains packs, it'd be good to portray the festive spirit of the Dwarven brotherhood. There's pictures of a fiddle and a flute (and even a teapot), in the Unexpected Party...

[1] Dwarven Fiddle [Dwarven]
Possession • Instrument
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] companion.
Each time you play a Dwarf, heal bearer.
Fellowship: Exert bearer to take into hand a non-maneuver [Dwarven] event from your draw deck (limit 1).
"The dark filled all the room, and the fire died down, and the shadows were lost, and still they played on."

I posted this before. Allows you to take any non-maneuver [Dwarven] event (maneuver events are too poweful), which gives Balin importance as he'll be recycling them. And heals bearer when another Dwarf joins the Company.

[1] Dwarven Flute [Dwarven]
Possession • Instrument
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] companion.
Each time you play a [Dwarven] follower or a [Dwarven] event, you may draw a card.
Fellowship: Exert bearer to use the fellowship special ability of another [Dwarven] card (without paying its cost).
"Now for some music! Bring out the instruments!"

This one draws cards, and allows bearer to replace the cost of Balin or Thorin's skills (or any other [Dwarven] fellowship ability we include in the same pack). That allows you to use Balin's skill with much less risk, or Thorin's without having to discard followers.

Tell me what you think about them.
« Last Edit: November 29, 2016, 02:54:18 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

December 01, 2016, 04:53:42 AM
Reply #476

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #476 on: December 01, 2016, 04:53:42 AM »
Thank you! I take all the lore texts you proposed!  8-)



- Alfrid's Influence: I prefer a simple card, I'm not sure players will remind a such low boost at a river or battleground. Watchful Orc will be very used with the Stone Giants. For this card, I keep the lore text (it's a good way to see Alfrid's Influence on the Master).

- Enemies of the State: I change the cards. We need an universal boost for all minions (like Dissension or If He Loses).

3x Enemies of the State: Cost (2). [Men]
Event • Skirmish
Make a minion strength +1 (or +3 if you spot a [Men] card). If that minion wins this skirmish, discard a [Dwarven] card attached to a companion.
"We caught them stealing weapons, Sire."

- Gangsquad Spies: It will probably be too strong to search cards in both discard pile and draw deck. I propose only draw deck (a way to shuffle your deck in Shadow phase).

3x Gangsquad Spies : Cost (3). [Men]
Minion • Man.
Strength 8. Vitality 2. Site 6.
Each time this minion is assigned to skirmish a character, exert that character.
Shadow: Exert this minion to take a [Men] card from your draw deck into hand.
"What are dwarves doing in these parts?"



The first effect of the Fiddle is good. But I don't like the "non-", maybe only fellowship or skirmish events ?

Same for the Flute. "Fellowship special ability" could be difficult for some players to understand quickly (and without any mistake).
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December 02, 2016, 02:32:54 AM
Reply #477

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #477 on: December 02, 2016, 02:32:54 AM »
Thank you! I take all the lore texts you proposed!  8-)

- Enemies of the State: I like it! :up: It's very disruptive, will force the FP player to solve first the skirmishes that will surely win. Because a suprise loss against this event allows the Shadow player to then discard a weapon/follower, to weaken and defeat or even overwhelm another guy! Really good! The cost [2] balances that power, and gives some predictability. :up:

It has a strong flavor, even if used with non- [Men] monsters like Smaug... "Either our little friends return triumphant, in which case I stand to make a pretty penny, or old Smaug dines on Dwarf for a day or two."

- Alfrid's Influence: Ok. But I think it should be non-unique. Having a 2nd copy won't stack the effect (after site 2), but makes the card more reliable.

- Gangsquad Spies: Alright, it's ok to not recover [Men] events (too mighty) or [Men] minions (Alfrid's Influence does that; we don't want another Old Tomnody). But what about conditions? How can you rebuild your support area, if all copies of Alfrid's Influence in your deck get discarded? I'd change it to grab any [Men] card from deck as you say, but also any [Men] condition from discard pile: "Shadow: Exert this minion to take a [Men] card from your draw deck (or a [Men] condition from your discard pile) into hand."


- Dwarven Fiddle: Could be "fellowship or skirmish" [Dwarven] events, but I want to include other phases except Maneuver. Assignment and Regroup, like Dwarven Song (a fiddle accompanying the deep voices ;)), Thrór's Heirlooms and Du Bekâr from other Supplementary packs. This text can be better then: "Fellowship: Exert bearer to take into hand a [Dwarven] event (except a maneuver event) from your draw deck (limit 1)." There's no "non-maneuver" wording then. ;)

Probably there will be new [Dwarven] Assignment, Regroup or Response events, even in the same Balin pack... look at this one:

[1] Burned Dwarves [Dwarven]

Event • Assignment
Make until the regroup phase a [Dwarven] character defender +1 (and strength +2 if is Thorin, Balin, Dwalin, Glóin or Dáin Ironfoot).
"...and to this day a Dwarf will say proudly of one of his sires: "he was a burned Dwarf", and that is enough."

A resource to get defender bonus. There's nothing like that yet, and many players and decks will give it a warm welcome (Thorin's towering strength will be more useful). When used with a survivor of that pyrrhic victory, also gives +2 strength until regroup. A Dwarf musician should be able to bring this kind of memories and attitudes back to the Company. The instrument should be able to interact with this kind of cards, (not only with skirmish pumps and fellowship set up / healing tricks).

(The 5 mentioned [Dwarven] characters are the only known survivors of Azanulbizar which are companion or ally cards in the HDG. All other confirmed veterans (if ever portrayed) are followers: Bifur (film only), Óin, Ori (really, he must have been around 160 or more during the Quest!), and king Thráin. And others are not known if participated: it's very likely Ori's brothers Dori and Nori had enough age to fight, note that Glóin was present with merely 16 years! As well as others who weren't part of the film or were unnamed, like Nár (Thrór's companion towards Moria) and Gróin (Óin/Glóin's father). So perhaps Nori should be added to that list above; there's enough room.)


- Dwarven Flute: Ok, to avoid confusion might be a Response action which triggers during the fellowship phase only: "Response: If the special ability of a [Dwarven] card is used during the fellowship phase, exert bearer instead of paying its cost." This skill is a bit different: 1) you must be able to pay the original cost of the special ability, 2) then you use that ability, 3) then respond with this skill to not pay the original cost. That means: Balin mustn't be exhausted, and Thorin must spot a [Dwarven] follower, in order to use their respective skills.

[1] Dwarven Flute [Dwarven]
Possession • Instrument
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] companion.
Each time you play a Dwarf or a [Dwarven] event, you may draw a card.
Response: If the special ability of a [Dwarven] card is used during the fellowship phase, exert bearer instead of paying its cost.
"Now for some music! Bring out the instruments!"

Changed the passive skill a tiny bit: you now also draw cards when Dwarf companions are played.

As you can see, the [Dwarven] musical Instruments are designed to support one the other. Dwarven Flute reduces the burden on Balin and Fiddle players, while Dwarven Fiddle grabs events which can be recycled by Balin, or can play a possession like another Instrument (Careful With These!).

Then, the Fiddle increases Balin's usefulness, while the Flute reduces the cost of using Balin's skill.
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 10:56:16 PM by Durin's Heir »
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December 02, 2016, 08:09:56 AM
Reply #478

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #478 on: December 02, 2016, 08:09:56 AM »
- Alfrid's Influence: Ok with non-unique.

- Gangsquad Spies: I don't like this long sentence in brackets. I propose another way (the event cannot be taken back)

3x Gangsquad Spies : Cost (3). [Men]
Minion • Man.
Strength 8. Vitality 2. Site 6.
Each time this minion is assigned to skirmish a character, exert that character.
Shadow: Discard a Shadow card from hand to play a [Men] card from your draw deck or discard pile (limit once per phase).
"What are dwarves doing in these parts?"


These [Dwarven] cards are done for which pack? Maybe propose 4-5 [Dwarven] cards with a strategy based on To Me O My Kinsfolk! and/or Noble Intentions (the 2 worst events in the main deck), it will be very helpful ;).
« Last Edit: December 02, 2016, 08:12:11 AM by -Enola- »
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December 02, 2016, 10:30:29 PM
Reply #479

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #479 on: December 02, 2016, 10:30:29 PM »
- Gangsquad Spies: Ok, seems better. Discarding a Shadow card erases the "Old Tomnoddy effect". :up:

These [Dwarven] cards are done for which pack?
Since the films show only 2 Musical Instruments and a teapot #-o, those 2 can either be in the same pack or in 2 different packs. I prefer to include 1 in Balin's pack and 1 in Blue Mountains pack (Dwarven Thirst will be the "festive card" of the Travellers pack). Then we need to "tune up" each Musical Instrument to the needs and synergies of each pack.

"Burned Dwarves" is for Balin's Pack. Balin was one of the most developed Dwarves in all Tolkien's work. Such pack must portray well his deep and multifaceted character:
1.- He was a fierce veteran of a traumatic conflict, so we need cards regarding the War of Dwarves and Orcs. And fighting events or tools.
2.- He was very friendly and wise (Bilbo's best Dwarf friend), so he must have some burden remotion or healing.
3.- He was the 2nd at command, so it'd be good to give him some "leadership" or "strategist" tool or event.
4.- He was the future leader of the Reconquest of Moria (tools/events to synergize with Ori and Óin).
5.- He was Dwalin's dear brother! (perhaps a HIDAN or Shoulder to Shoulder between them)

So we need to balance and merge a lot of interactions and goals into... 6 measly cards! Burned Dwarves helps with points 1, 3 and 5. But doesn't satisfy them totally.

Maybe propose 4-5 [Dwarven] cards with a strategy based on To Me O My Kinsfolk! and/or Noble Intentions (the 2 worst events in the main deck), it will be very helpful ;).
That explains the text of the Dwarven Chariot...  :-k  Ok, I'll be working in ways to enhance those 2 events.

Actually the Intruments will work marvels with To Me! O My Kinsfolk! with the "each time you play a Dwarf" trigger. By playing the event, the Fiddle will heal bearer once and the Flute will draw up to 2 cards (1 for the event, 1 for the Dwarf). Thorin's skill can discard a follower if needed, and Balin can recycle the event. We can even create a possession to allow To Me! O My Kinsfolk! to be played during regroup (after Yazneg or Smaug discards your followers).

Regarding Noble Intentions, a way of increasing its use is to give an award "each time Bilbo wins a skirmish." Or even "each time a Dwarf exerts during a skirmish involving Bilbo." This is a rough example:

[1] Never Been So Wrong [Dwarven]

Event • Response
If Bilbo wins a skirmish, heal a Dwarf, or exert Bilbo to remove a doubt.
Each time a Dwarf exerts during a skirmish involving Bilbo, you may discard 2 cards from hand to take this event into hand from discard pile.
"I am sorry I doubted you."

Healing or doubt remotion. And since Noble Intentions recovers it to hand, "the noble intentions of the Dwarves will lighten Bilbo's heart." It's merely a prototype, but can be the "burden remotion or healing" card of Balin's pack (as stated above). Having also Burned Dwarves, Balin's Pack would be "the Hugs pack". :P
« Last Edit: December 07, 2016, 05:56:53 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X