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December 03, 2016, 03:28:05 PM
Reply #480

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #480 on: December 03, 2016, 03:28:05 PM »
I'm not a big fan of instruments in different Packs, but maybe 2 instruments in the Blue Mountains Pack would be enough.

[1] Dwarven Fiddle [Dwarven]
Possession • Instrument
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] companion.
Each time you play Bifur, Bofur or Bombur, you may heal bearer.
Fellowship: Add [2] and discard a [Dwarven] follower to take a skirmish [Dwarven] event from your draw deck into hand.
"The dark filled all the room, and the fire died down, and the shadows were lost, and still they played on."

[1] Dwarven Flute [Dwarven]
Possession • Instrument
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] companion.
Each time you play Bifur, Bofur or Bombur, you may draw 2 cards.
Fellowship: Add [2] and exert bearer to play a [Dwarven] follower from your draw deck (limit once per turn).
"Now for some music! Bring out the instruments!"


I don't like Never Been So Wrong, unfortunately this card will never be used. Bilbo wins rarely his skirmishes.
« Last Edit: December 03, 2016, 03:42:04 PM by -Enola- »
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January 02, 2017, 05:34:25 PM
Reply #481

Zacharr

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #481 on: January 02, 2017, 05:34:25 PM »
Just wanted to chime in, what you've done here is awesome!
I have a request to make, though I know it might be a bit much:

My friends and I play Lotr TCG with physical cards (I have a group of 5 friends, and we have 20 decks among us, to keep things fresh  :P). With the help of magic set editor (From this post http://lotrtcgwiki.com/forums/index.php/topic,8584.0.html, thanks to Eomund), and about 2 years of creativity, I also create my own cards for us to use and play with (things from the Hobbit, or from Silmarillion, and such). I'd love to use/incorporate some of your cards and ideas into our games!

So, tl;dr: Would you ever considering posting the image files of all your Hobbit cards on your website?  [-o<

Regardless, love the work! :)


EDIT: To clarify, they're actually up there already (I could take the images one by one if I felt so inclined). This was mostly a post to say how cool it is, to ask permission to do so, and to ask if you could put them all in one file for easy downloading because I'm lazy haha
« Last Edit: January 02, 2017, 05:38:14 PM by Zacharr »

January 03, 2017, 06:51:38 AM
Reply #482

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #482 on: January 03, 2017, 06:51:38 AM »
A month since my last post :(... I've been tired and busy, as usual.

- Hobbit Game in Gemp: I got a question. Will the Smaug cards have a new culture button in the deckbuilder? Or will all be scattered? To include a "Smaug button" would make any search much easier. The button might have no culture symbol at all, the mere word "Smaug" should be enough.

- Ori's Slingshot: You're including it in Balin's pack, I like that. But such a weapon shouldn't wound minions. A small stone simply won't kill an Orc, but for sure will make him lose his focus. So we can portray that distraction and annoyance in a useful way:

[1]Ori's Slingshot [Dwarven]  (Balin's Pack)
Possession • Support Area
Each time you attach Ori, you may place up to 2 [Dwarven] cards from your discard pile beneath your draw deck.
Skirmish: Discard a [Dwarven] card from hand to make a minion strength -1.
Ori's weapon often hurted the focus of his foes.

The skirmish skill distracts a minion in battle. Doesn't need a specific follower, but will work much better with Ori + Balin (given the hand extension). The passive skill makes Ori recover the [Dwarven] cards you'll be spending, thus he becomes a powerful AND sustainable cycling machine. Since those cards will be placed at the bottom, that skill won't replace Balin's (still necessary to shuffle the deck and to recover non- [Dwarven] events). Then Balin should recover more [Gandalf] events than usual.

"At Your Service!" can play Ori earlier, to reap the full cycling and skirmish potential. So it should be in Balin's Pack instead of "Careful With These!" (which will work better with the Dwarven Flute in the Blue Mountains pack, see below).

I'm not a big fan of instruments in different Packs, but maybe 2 instruments in the Blue Mountains Pack would be enough.
The problem is that you're using 2 of 6 FP slots merely for instruments. Too much, as they must not give straightforward bonuses like weapons do; instruments must have subtler mechanisms (draw cards, heal sometimes, get followers / events from deck...). Then, they'll require to synergize with some other [Dwarven] cards we include in order to reach a greater impact (like "At Your Service!" or "Careful With These!"). Which requires using more FP slots. So each Pack can have 1 instrument, designed to interact with its specific goals and resources.


[1] Dwarven Fiddle [Dwarven]  (Balin's Pack)
Possession • Instrument
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] companion.
Each time you play a Dwarf, you may heal a [Dwarven] companion (limit 1 per turn).
Fellowship: Exert bearer to take into hand a fellowship or skirmish [Dwarven] event from your draw deck (limit 1).
"Now for some music! Bring out the instruments!" (only 1 line available)

Heals and gets events from deck, making Balin's skill more important and also easier to use. Turns any Dwarf into a healing card (giving To Me! O My Kinsfolk! a new value!).

[1] Dwarven Flute [Dwarven]  (Blue Mountains Pack)
Possession • Instrument
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] companion.
Each time you play a Dwarf or a [Dwarven] event, you may draw a card.
Fellowship: Exert bearer to play a [Dwarven] follower from your draw deck (limit 1).
"The dark filled all the room, and the fire died down, and the shadows were lost, and still they played on." (2 lines)

A powerful set up tool to draw cards and play followers. Thus "Careful With These!" playing this Flute will replace the need of "At Your Service!". The easy and soon access to Óin's healing or Dori's protection will be invaluable (but Careful With These! will be necessary to get the Flute soon).

The more instruments, the better the effect. Also, both instruments share the "play a Dwarf" trigger, so they can easily synergize if they coincide in the Draft (or if a player makes them coincide in Gemp ;)). Then, To Me! O My Kinsfolk! will be a great music sheet for that "Dwarven Orchestra"! It's a real shame that PJ didn't include Thorin's Harp ("It was a beautiful golden harp, and when Thorin struck it the music began all at once, so sudden and sweet that Bilbo forgot everything else, and was swept away into dark lands under strange moons...").



FP Objectives:
- transfer without cost for [Dwarven] followers (Bofur rarely used)."
You said that in March 14, 2016! The aid cost impairs Bofur greatly, but also Bifur and Bombur (exertions). Your versions of the instruments mention them, but that simply won't solve the problem. What we need is what you said: a way to transfer [Dwarven] followers without paying their respective aid costs.

[2] Dwarven Warhammer [Dwarven]  (Blue Mountains Pack)
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +2
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] character.
Maneuver: Discard 2 cards from hand to attach a [Dwarven] follower from your support area to a companion (without paying the aid cost).
"The dwarves of yore made mighty spells, while hammers fell like ringing bells..."

A mighty (and expensive) weapon meant to promote the use of followers. The Flute has a skill to draw cards which seems superfluous by itself, but now will have a surprising importance to fuel this alternative aid cost!


I don't like Never Been So Wrong, unfortunately this card will never be used. Bilbo wins rarely his skirmishes.
You're probably right. But the idea was to show how a card might make Noble Intentions more powerful and attractive. The trigger ("each time a Dwarf exerts in a skirmish involving Bilbo...") can be used in another card, preferably something that stays on the board like a possession, perhaps a "Dwarven Handkerchief" or the "Dwarven Ponies".




Happy New Year my friend Enola, and everyone reading this!
« Last Edit: January 04, 2017, 12:24:57 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

January 03, 2017, 12:48:45 PM
Reply #483

Phallen Cassidy

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #483 on: January 03, 2017, 12:48:45 PM »
- Hobbit Game in Gemp: I got a question. Will the Smaug cards have a new culture button in the deckbuilder? Or will all be scattered? To include a "Smaug button" would make any search much easier. The button might have no culture symbol at all, the mere word "Smaug" should be enough.

There will be Mirkwood, Smaug, Spider, and Troll buttons added to the Gemp deckbuilder. I think they'll extend the bottom row of shadow cultures, though I can't say I'm certain. Regardless, it'll be a minor addition and shouldn't heckle LotR players much at all.

January 03, 2017, 02:27:41 PM
Reply #484

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #484 on: January 03, 2017, 02:27:41 PM »
- @Phallen: Good to know, thanks! Now, there are 2 cultures not mentioned: Gundabad and Dale. I guess Gundabad won't have much problem using the [Orc] Orc button. And perhaps Dale cards (the only new FP culture) will be ok using the [Gondor] Gondor button too (though those cultures weren't related actually).

Really thanks for your hard work to include this on Gemp. And Happy 25th Post (you can now edit the Wiki)!


- @Zacharr: I'm glad you like this game and still have a group of players in real life! It's been truly an honour to be allowed to help Enola in the development. Time ago he had a printable pdf file with all cards (that existed by then), but it's very outdated. It'll probably be wise to upload an updated version, but that'll probably depend on his amount of free time.

-------

I've been working on a card for the Blue Mountains pack, to allow 1 more [Dwarven] follower to be in play (circumventing the Orkish Marauder). The point is that only 3 [Dwarven] followers limits too much your options and enhancements on companions. Also, having now an alternative aid cost to attach followers (like that Dwarven Warhammer above) will reduce the cons of some otherwise unused followers (unpopular ones like Bofur and Bombur will get a new value), but that will only matter if the Marauder isn't punishing the Company...

[2]Dwarven Ponies [Dwarven]  (Blue Mountains Pack)
Possession • Support Area
At the end of the shadow phase, you may play a [Dwarven] follower from hand.
Fellowship or Regroup: Return a [Dwarven] follower in play to your hand.

So you keep the number of followers below 4 in fellowship, and at the end of shadow phase you play a 4th follower. The Marauder will never trigger that way!

3 spare lines, for lore text or for another skill. The "Noble Intentions trigger" may be used then here, perhaps something like "Each time a Dwarf exerts during a skirmish involving Bilbo, heal Bilbo". If that skill is added, this card needs to be unique; if not, this card can be non-unique, to allow 1 more follower per copy in play.
« Last Edit: January 03, 2017, 03:15:51 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

January 03, 2017, 06:09:45 PM
Reply #485

Zacharr

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #485 on: January 03, 2017, 06:09:45 PM »
@Durin's Heir: Thanks for the quick reply. However long it takes is however long it takes of course :)

January 04, 2017, 04:48:07 AM
Reply #486

Phallen Cassidy

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #486 on: January 04, 2017, 04:48:07 AM »
- @Phallen: Good to know, thanks! Now, there are 2 cultures not mentioned: Gundabad and Dale. I guess Gundabad won't have much problem using the [Orc] Orc button. And perhaps Dale cards (the only new FP culture) will be ok using the [Gondor] Gondor button too (though those cultures weren't related actually).

Really thanks for your hard work to include this on Gemp. And Happy 25th Post (you can now edit the Wiki)!


Oops, Dale and Gundabad will have their own buttons as well, I'd just forgotten about them to mention it. I think everything in The Hobbit will function like LotR in the deckbuilder. The new keywords Burglar and Wise can be used for filtering, and the different releases will have their own selection in the drop-down menu. If I've forgotten anything, I'll add it after MarcinS uploads the changes and we'll just wait for them to go through. Again, I haven't finished The Short Rest in its entirety (namely the Spider culture isn't present, but a few tricky cards here and there are also missing), but the initial release should have enough to allow The Hobbit to be fun, and variation between decks.

And thank you! Of course, now that I've hit 25, I haven't had time to look over or edit any of the articles. At least now I can!

January 05, 2017, 05:26:23 AM
Reply #487

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #487 on: January 05, 2017, 05:26:23 AM »
So, tl;dr: Would you ever considering posting the image files of all your Hobbit cards on your website?  [-o<

Regardless, love the work! :)

Thanks a lot. Btw, all Hobbit cards are available here (it's the current version of the cards): http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Download.html



[1]Ori's Slingshot [Dwarven]  (Balin's Pack)
Possession • Support Area
Each time you attach Ori, you may place up to 2 [Dwarven] cards from your discard pile beneath your draw deck.
Skirmish: Discard a [Dwarven] card from hand to make a minion strength -1.
Ori's weapon often hurted the focus of his foes.

Too weak and slow, I prefer a card with a better effect (I change "minion" for "Orc").

[1] •Ori's Slighshot [Dwarven]
Possession • Ranged Weapon
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] companion.
Archery: Discard a [Dwarven] follower to wound an Orc once (or twice if the [Dwarven] follower is Ori).
Ori's weapon often hurted the focus of his foes.


[1] Dwarven Fiddle [Dwarven]  (Balin's Pack)
Possession • Instrument
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] companion.
Each time you play a Dwarf, you may heal a [Dwarven] companion (limit 1 per turn).
Fellowship: Exert bearer to take into hand a fellowship or skirmish [Dwarven] event from your draw deck (limit 1).
"Now for some music! Bring out the instruments!" (only 1 line available)

[1] Dwarven Flute [Dwarven]  (Blue Mountains Pack)
Possession • Instrument
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] companion.
Each time you play a Dwarf or a [Dwarven] event, you may draw a card.
Fellowship: Exert bearer to play a [Dwarven] follower from your draw deck (limit 1).
"The dark filled all the room, and the fire died down, and the shadows were lost, and still they played on." (2 lines)

I'm not a big fan of instruments in the packs, sorry :(.


[2] Dwarven Warhammer [Dwarven]  (Blue Mountains Pack)
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +2
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] character.
Maneuver: Discard 2 cards from hand to attach a [Dwarven] follower from your support area to a companion (without paying the aid cost).
"The dwarves of yore made mighty spells, while hammers fell like ringing bells..."

Ok for a new weapon. The text might change soon.

[2] Dwarven Warhammer [Dwarven]  (Blue Mountains Pack)
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +2
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] character.
Maneuver: Discard 2 cards from hand to attach a [Dwarven] follower from your support area to a companion (without paying the aid cost).
"The dwarves of yore made mighty spells, while hammers fell like ringing bells..."


[2]Dwarven Ponies [Dwarven]  (Blue Mountains Pack)
Possession • Support Area
At the end of the shadow phase, you may play a [Dwarven] follower from hand.
Fellowship or Regroup: Return a [Dwarven] follower in play to your hand.

I don't like it. The FP player doesn't draw enough [Dwarven] followers in order to have a direct impact on the game, even to avoid Orkish Marauder. I don't have ideas yet to change it.

I update the first post of this topic.


Thanks Phallen for your amazing work, I hope we will see it soon :D.


Thanks! Happy New Year for you too (and also Phallen)!!! I hope you health will be better in 2017 (In France , we say "Bonne année et bonne santé"=Happy New Year and stay healthy.
« Last Edit: January 05, 2017, 05:30:40 AM by -Enola- »
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January 06, 2017, 10:53:32 AM
Reply #488

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #488 on: January 06, 2017, 10:53:32 AM »
(Ori's Slingshot) Too weak and slow, I prefer a card with a better effect (I change "minion" for "Orc").
Not weak at all. -1 or -2 str to a minion is often all you need to win a skirmish (or to not be overwhelmed), and being able to do so in any skirmish that needs it changes the game. It's like Elven Sword, but for all companions. Alike the Sword provides a strong cycling engine, but unlike it Ori draws cards to fuel the skirmish/cycling skill. Drawing also increases the chances of having pumps or maneuver events. Also, the Elven Sword makes you ponder whether to discard your Shadow cards or not (which slows down the game), but this won't touch them and thus will be much faster.

If you still think it's weak, the card has 1 spare line (besides the lore text) so we can change or add something:
- Ori might draw 1 or 2 additional cards to have more fuel and cycling.
- The skirmish skill might use any FP card instead of [Dwarven] only.
- Even a line as simple as this: "Ori's bearer is strength +1"...


I'm not a big fan of instruments in the packs, sorry :(.
Each instrument will use only 1 FP slot, out of 6. That slot can instead be used for a fellowship event, but unlike events these instruments remain in play. The key is to note that these 2 [Dwarven] Packs will have a strong follower play, stronger than anything seen before in the Hobbit Game. Then they'll need strong set up tricks to play those followers. The instruments I proposed will make combos that work like Simbelmyne or AWINL, but remaining in play:

- Careful With These! plays the Dwarven Fiddle, which in turn plays a [Dwarven] follower. Similar to Simbelmyne.
- Dwarven Fiddle gets At Your Service!, which in turn plays a [Dwarven] follower. Similar to (Decipher's) AWINL.

One card plays the other, to play a Dwarf follower. Then each follower multiplies his playing chances by 3! But unlike Simbelmyne / AWINL, the engine remains on the board. Gandalf plays 1 Dwarf companion per turn, and these combos will do the same with Dwarf followers. Finally, each instrument has another utility than playing followers: the Flute draws tons of cards, while the Fiddle can get pumps and sometimes heal.

"'Now for some music!' said Thorin. 'Bring out the instruments!'"

(Dwarven Warhammer) Ok for a new weapon. The text might change soon.
Great! If you remove that skill from the Warhammer, please include it in another [Dwarven] card as Bofur & others will need it (and it was you who asked for it! ;)). Besides, the Archery shadows will make arrows rain, so a cheap way of transferring Bofur will replace the need of shields in the Blue Mountains pack.


I don't like it (Dwarven Ponies). The FP player doesn't draw enough [Dwarven] followers in order to have a direct impact on the game, even to avoid Orkish Marauder. I don't have ideas yet to change it.
Ok, it's only a prototype by now. There's 3 free lines to add something not dependant on followers. Like "at the start of your turn, you may draw a card", or somehting to make Noble Intentions better: "Each time a Dwarf exerts in a skirmish involving Bilbo, heal a companion" (Gloin helps anyone exhausted, and Noble Intentions loses its cost).

But your experience is based on the previous Supplementary packs. There was no way to play followers directly from deck, except for 2 cards in all that lot (King Under the Mountain and Thrór's Heirlooms), and Bilbo's Kitchen. But now 2 new Supplementary packs will be built around followers, and then will require strong set up tools for that purpose (like the instruments above). Then, followers will not need to be played when drawn, but mainly will be played from deck by those tools.

The safe limit of 3 will be reached soon, and will limit a lot the skills and bonuses on companions. Bombur is mere brute force, and Bifur requires winning a fierce skirmish; with room for only 3, I think they'll be left out for others who answer more urgent needs, like Óin for wounds or Dori for overwhelming. So pushing that limit to 4 allows more combinations and enhancements, while the Warhammer's skill will make the attachment much easier.



Thanks! Happy New Year for you too (and also Phallen)!!! I hope you health will be better in 2017 (In France , we say "Bonne année et bonne santé"=Happy New Year and stay healthy.
I'm glad to hear that! Thanks! I feel this will be the year when the tide will finally turn, and my dusty papers and projects will be unchained from their long sleep.

Bonne année et bonne santé à toi aussi!
(hope Google translator isn't tricking me!)
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

January 07, 2017, 05:23:56 AM
Reply #489

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #489 on: January 07, 2017, 05:23:56 AM »
-1 or -2 str to a minion is often all you need to win a skirmish

Not at all and if you have a [Dwarven] card in hand, the FP player will use it to transfer Ori or Oin. I prefer a stronger card (and simpler) rather than your version.


Each instrument will use only 1 FP slot, out of 6.

If there are instruments in supplementary packs, I prefer all in the same pack. The Blue Mountains Pack could be the Thor Pack (and also be very focused on [Dwarven] followers, I think it will be the last Supplementary Pack).


One card plays the other, to play a Dwarf follower.

I don't like this mechanism. I prefer other cards then.
« Last Edit: January 07, 2017, 08:51:41 AM by -Enola- »
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January 07, 2017, 06:20:35 PM
Reply #490

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #490 on: January 07, 2017, 06:20:35 PM »
Not at all and if you have a [Dwarven] card in hand, the FP player will use it to transfer Ori or Oin.
Many minions have str 8 or 9, so unarmed str 7 Dwarves (save Thorin) won't defeat them by the aid of a str +1 follower. Bilbo and Gandalf will be thankful if they can get a benefit from cards that otherwise won't use (like Battle Fury). William and Cantëa negate the use of followers, but those [Dwarven] cards that Ori and Óin won't use will be useful with the Slingshot. Finally, don't underestimate the power of cycling: drawing cards, ditching the [Dwarven] ones you don't need and recycling them in the next turn will help both your FP and Shadow to assemble faster and hit harder. That's more important than the strength help itself.

But looking at the Dwarves' Chariot, it does almost the same! :uh-huh: Then the Slingshot might absorb the Chariot's skill (while keeping the mighty recyling):

[1] •Ori's Slingshot [Dwarven]
Possession • Support Area
Each time you attach Ori, you may place up to 2 [Dwarven] cards from your discard pile beneath your draw deck.
Skirmish: Discard a [Dwarven] card from hand to make a minion strength -1 (or -2 if the twilight cost of that card is 0).
Ori's weapon often hurted the focus of his foes.

I still think that a small stone shouldn't kill an Orc. But if you really want to kill Orcs with projectiles, let that slingshot aside and pick that Chain Crossbow that's in the chariot! :twisted:

[2] Chain Crossbow [Dwarven]
Possession • Ranged Weapon
Bearer must be a [Dwarven] companion.
If bearer is Balin, he's strength +2.     (to not pile more tools on Thorin)
Skirmish: If bearer is not assigned to a skirmish, exert him to wound a minion skirmishing another [Dwarven] character.
"Durin be with you, brother!"

Won't interfere in Bilbo's skirmish, but Balin can support his brother when confronting a swarm.


If there are instruments in supplementary packs, I prefer all in the same pack.
Balin's Pack will need a way to heal him, and also a way to play Ori soon, so I though about an instrument to cover both needs. The Blue Mountains Pack too needs a follower-playing card, and probably a strong way to draw cards (but won't rely on Ori), so the same was done there. Those fellowship-phase tasks (heal, draw, get followers/events) should be portrayed well by Musical Instruments, inviting the Dwarven brotherhood to gather and share stories. That's the concept behind. And since each of those packs has its own fellowship-phase tasks, makes sense that each pack should have its own instrument.

Also the instruments need an event to work better AND to have a strong interaction with Balin's skill. 2 Instruments + 1 event = half the Pack. That's another reason why I believe they are better separated. And Balin's pack will gain a lot in flavor, by having an instrument it will have a much warmer feeling.

The Blue Mountains Pack could be the Thror Pack (and also be very focused on [Dwarven] followers, I think it will be the last Supplementary Pack).
I wouldn't change "Blue Mountains pack" to "Thrór pack." The "Blue Mountains" concept is about exiles surviving and labouring in anything they can while keeping their pride, but Thrór is related to either his glory days or his present suffering when remembering them. If you want to change the name, "Exiles pack" seems better to me.

I don't like this mechanism. I prefer other cards then.
We can think on something different, I have no problem. But the "event + instrument" combos have other utilities than only playing followers:

- Dwarven Fiddle can grab At Your Service! (to play a follower/companion), but can also get another event like To Me! O My Kinsfolk! or a pump.
- Careful With These! can play Dwarven Flute (to play followers), but Careful With These! can play another possession like the Warhammer.

So it's not like having the same usefulness of Simbelmyne, but spending twice the room in the deck. Each part has its own potentials and benefits. And one part remains on the board.
« Last Edit: January 08, 2017, 01:03:28 AM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

January 19, 2017, 04:31:44 AM
Reply #491

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #491 on: January 19, 2017, 04:31:44 AM »
Sorry for the delay.

I'm focused on the Shadow Pack 3, trying to test the Swarm Pack 3.
I'm a worried about the Sauron culture in the Swarm Pack 3, it's far too strong with Danger Wrapped In Shadows in the Beatdown Pack 2. Maybe Gundabad culture instead of Sauron culture? Some cards will then change...
What do you think?
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January 21, 2017, 11:13:02 AM
Reply #492

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #492 on: January 21, 2017, 11:13:02 AM »
Sorry for the delay.
Don't worry my friend, take your time. ;)

I'm a worried about the Sauron culture in the Swarm Pack 3, it's far too strong with Danger Wrapped In Shadows in the Beatdown Pack 2. Maybe Gundabad culture instead of Sauron culture? Some cards will then change...
What do you think?

I firmly disagree to change it to Gundabad. They already have 2 Packs, while Sauron has only 1. Also they have the Main deck, and that universal availability makes any [Gundabad] version of Hidden or Rise of the Necromancer too easy to use (and draft), by ANY player. Rewording all cards will be tricky, and will contain hidden abuses probably... So the interaction with the [Sauron] Beatdown pack must be balanced, NOT erased.

Both packs use different resources, and the costs aren't heavy enough to force players to focus on one or the other. So they don't interrupt each other. That's the main problem, in my opinion. ([Sauron] Beatdown uses twilight, while [Sauron] Swarm uses cards in hand.) Then, I see 2 clear options: 1) change the [Sauron] Swarm pack to use the twilight resource, so its limitation will stop OP combos; or 2) keep the discard cost but make it more strenuous, so that the deck must be built around that cost to get the full potential. I prefer #2.


- Dark Sorcery: We can increase the cost to "discard 3 cards" from hand (to make it much less viable for the [Sauron] Beatdown pack, without many Ambushers/Sentinels), or replace the discarding cost with a twilight cost: "Maneuver: Exert an Orc and remove [3] to play a Shadow condition from your discard pile" (which stacks with Sauron and Danger Wrapped's high cost). I prefer discarding 3, since it taxes only the Beatdown pack, not impeding the Swarm pack to do its job.

- Rise of the Necromancer: The replay loop with Danger Wrapped can be troublesome. So you can add this text to Rise's shadow skill: "End your Shadow phase." (just like Tol Brandir) That blocks Rise from playing Danger in order to play more [Sauron] minions/conditions. You can still use Rise to play [Sauron] conditions, but as the phase ends Danger Wrapped ([Sauron] Beatdown) won't play more cards, while Hidden and Dark Sorcery ([Sauron] Swarm) will still be able to.

- Malevolent Orc: I guess good part of the problem comes from being able to play several Orcs with only 1x Hidden. I really like your idea of playing [Sauron] conditions instead of Orcs, but the cost "remove [2]" destroys the swarming potential of the [Sauron] Swarm pack (Hidden = [3]!). I'd rather have a fixed discard cost like "discard 2 cards" or "discard a Shadow card" from hand, to make it depend on the Ambusher/Sentinel when building a swarm. That way the "Old Tomnoddy effect" will still remain, but with a fixed discarding cost for each Malevolent Orc played that way. Which shouldn't be sustainable for the [Sauron] Beatdown shadow.

Now, what about [Wraith] minions? The old Malevolent Orc was able to replay them (somewhat like a mightier Morgul Skulker). Perhaps Hidden might play "an Orc or a [Wraith] minion" from discard pile. Hidden requires to spot a [Sauron] card (which cripples its use in Nazgul-only shadows).


Hope this helps.

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I know you're not focused now on this, so answer later if you wish. But this would be my version of the Dwarves' Chariot (replacing the Chain Crossbow):

[2] •Dwarven War Chariot [Dwarven]
Possession • Support Area
Balin is strength +1 and damage +1.
Skirmish: Discard a [Dwarven] follower to wound a minion skirmishing a [Dwarven] character (except if underground).
Regroup: Play from your hand a [Dwarven] follower or a [Dwarven] fellowship event.
"I'm too old for this!"

Makes Balin a killing machine. It should absorb your version of the Slingshot (as has a wounding skill with the exact same cost). Since it's senseless to drive it on a cave or tunnel, it can't wound Smaug (at site 8 at least).

As a wagon for the Company, allows you to reload the discarded followers during regroup, from hand or from discard with To Me! O My Kinsfolk! All aboard!
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 12:14:07 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

January 21, 2017, 02:08:16 PM
Reply #493

-Enola-

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #493 on: January 21, 2017, 02:08:16 PM »
I think Danger Wrapped In Shadows (playing any [Sauron] card from the draw deck or taking back all [Sauron] cards) will always be very helpful for any kind of [Sauron] Shadows in the SP3. It's the main problem :(. We can:
- change the [Sauron] swarm for another Gundabad Shadow
- make a [Sauron] Shadow in the BP3 and move either the Mirkwood or Corrupted Men Shadow in the SP3. But then the [Sauron] Shadow should be a Beatdown Shadow.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 02:17:20 PM by -Enola- »
Hobbit Draft Game : http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr

January 21, 2017, 04:26:21 PM
Reply #494

Durin's Heir

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Re: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game
« Reply #494 on: January 21, 2017, 04:26:21 PM »
I think Danger Wrapped In Shadows (playing any [Sauron] card from the draw deck or taking back all [Sauron] cards) will always be very helpful for any kind of [Sauron] Shadows in the SP3. It's the main problem :(.
[Sauron] Swarm needs a lot of minions, while [Sauron] Swarm needs a lot of twilight. Yes, Danger Wrapped In Shadows can replay / search for any [Sauron] card, but only 1 per site, by paying [2] and only during the Shadow phase. Not limitless, nor unexpensive. If Rise of the Necromancer gets the "Tol Brandir" text, all copies of Danger Wrapped in Shadows recovered with it (or with any new [Sauron] condition) won't have enough time to be used in that same site. Which trims that loop's power a lot.

Also, keep in mind Danger Wrapped costs [2], Dark Sorcery [2], Rise [1], Malevolent Orc [3] (+ [1] if played by Hidden). Using Danger Wrapped needs [2] more. So yes, you can regenerate your support area over and over again, but definitely NOT for free, and you'll need twilight to play Orcs. Each turn you don't strike the Company is a turn you give them to set up, and a good set up is perhaps the worst enemy for a swarm. And removing [2] per Orc (per copy of Danger) to build a swarm is too unefficient to be reliable (is both predictable and TOO expensive).

I believe Danger Wrapped isn't a real problem with this [Sauron] Swarm shadow... even "Rise + Dark Sorcery" in play and 2x Hidden in discard pile can replace it: a) Rise is spent to recover 2x Hidden, b) Dark Sorcery recovers Rise, c) 2x Hidden are spent for 2 Orcs. I'm not worried at all (as long as we add tweaks to balance it, like that "Tol Brandir" text).

With all that in mind, Malevolent Orc worries me much more since it can replay during the mighty Shadow phase a copy of Rise/Danger Wrapped, AND can be played by the universal machinery of Host of Thousands / Hatred Rekindled during that aforementioned phase. So I'm doubting about my proposal for Malevolent Orc's skill.

- change the [Sauron] swarm for another Gundabad Shadow
- make a [Sauron] Shadow in the BP3 and move either the Mirkwood or Corrupted Men Shadow in the SP3. But then the [Sauron] Shadow should be a Beatdown Shadow.
- Gundabad has 1 Swarm & 1 Beatdown packs, so they can coincide. Bolg Commander and Orc Veteran don't lose anything by being mounted, and in case Thorin is dead (Threatening Warg's task), even Orc Pursuer and the mighty Orc Army can use the wounding skill when mounted (if on a War-warg). That's truly powerful!
- Corrupted Men lack any sense as a Swarm shadow, lorewise. The same can be said about Mirkwood Elves.

So those aren't good options to me. Compare the "War pack + Bolg's Army" combo above, with the potential of Danger Wrapped in Shadows + Rise / Dark Sorcery / [Sauron] Orcs... seems less threatening in my opinion.

But if you still want another Gundabad Swarm pack, I'd much rather have Warg minions than more Orcs.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 07:27:05 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X