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Author Topic: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game  (Read 36776 times)
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-Enola-
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« Reply #495 on: January 21, 2017, 10:08:16 PM »

I think Danger Wrapped In Shadows (playing any Sauron card from the draw deck or taking back all Sauron cards) will always be very helpful for any kind of Sauron Shadows in the SP3. It's the main problem Sad. We can:
- change the Sauron swarm for another Gundabad Shadow
- make a Sauron Shadow in the BP3 and move either the Mirkwood or Corrupted Men Shadow in the SP3. But then the Sauron Shadow should be a Beatdown Shadow.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 10:17:20 PM by -Enola- » Logged

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Durin's Heir
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« Reply #496 on: January 22, 2017, 12:26:21 AM »

I think Danger Wrapped In Shadows (playing any Sauron card from the draw deck or taking back all Sauron cards) will always be very helpful for any kind of Sauron Shadows in the SP3. It's the main problem Sad.
Sauron Swarm needs a lot of minions, while Sauron Swarm needs a lot of twilight. Yes, Danger Wrapped In Shadows can replay / search for any Sauron card, but only 1 per site, by paying 2 and only during the Shadow phase. Not limitless, nor unexpensive. If Rise of the Necromancer gets the "Tol Brandir" text, all copies of Danger Wrapped in Shadows recovered with it (or with any new Sauron condition) won't have enough time to be used in that same site. Which trims that loop's power a lot.

Also, keep in mind Danger Wrapped costs 2, Dark Sorcery 2, Rise 1, Malevolent Orc 3 (+ 1 if played by Hidden). Using Danger Wrapped needs 2 more. So yes, you can regenerate your support area over and over again, but definitely NOT for free, and you'll need twilight to play Orcs. Each turn you don't strike the Company is a turn you give them to set up, and a good set up is perhaps the worst enemy for a swarm. And removing 2 per Orc (per copy of Danger) to build a swarm is too unefficient to be reliable (is both predictable and TOO expensive).

I believe Danger Wrapped isn't a real problem with this Sauron Swarm shadow... even "Rise + Dark Sorcery" in play and 2x Hidden in discard pile can replace it: a) Rise is spent to recover 2x Hidden, b) Dark Sorcery recovers Rise, c) 2x Hidden are spent for 2 Orcs. I'm not worried at all (as long as we add tweaks to balance it, like that "Tol Brandir" text).

With all that in mind, Malevolent Orc worries me much more since it can replay during the mighty Shadow phase a copy of Rise/Danger Wrapped, AND can be played by the universal machinery of Host of Thousands / Hatred Rekindled during that aforementioned phase. So I'm doubting about my proposal for Malevolent Orc's skill.

- change the Sauron swarm for another Gundabad Shadow
- make a Sauron Shadow in the BP3 and move either the Mirkwood or Corrupted Men Shadow in the SP3. But then the Sauron Shadow should be a Beatdown Shadow.
- Gundabad has 1 Swarm & 1 Beatdown packs, so they can coincide. Bolg Commander and Orc Veteran don't lose anything by being mounted, and in case Thorin is dead (Threatening Warg's task), even Orc Pursuer and the mighty Orc Army can use the wounding skill when mounted (if on a War-warg). That's truly powerful!
- Corrupted Men lack any sense as a Swarm shadow, lorewise. The same can be said about Mirkwood Elves.

So those aren't good options to me. Compare the "War pack + Bolg's Army" combo above, with the potential of Danger Wrapped in Shadows + Rise / Dark Sorcery / Sauron Orcs... seems less threatening in my opinion.

But if you still want another Gundabad Swarm pack, I'd much rather have Warg minions than more Orcs.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 03:27:05 AM by Durin's Heir » Logged

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Which means the common term "Scientific Authority" is totally anti-Scientific!
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« Reply #497 on: January 26, 2017, 09:45:45 PM »

I try something new. Sauron swarm is now based on Sauron events, there will be less interactions with Danger Wrapped In Shadows then.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 09:21:22 AM by -Enola- » Logged

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« Reply #498 on: February 03, 2017, 01:48:37 PM »

New cards on the first post for the Sauron swarm in the Beatdown Pack 3.
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« Reply #499 on: February 14, 2017, 11:57:32 PM »

I'm sorry for this very long absence Sad. I've been struggling lately with too many tasks and problems for my scarce vitality to cope with. But I'm alive and well after all, so here it goes...


* Sauron Swarm shadow

I noticed this Shadow may have a hard time against Dale allies, they'll be both fighting and shooting so you'll need to preserve vitality against arrows at the same time you'll need more minions on the board to overwhelm key companions. That will punish the skills that need exertions, which are key to get a swarmng force.

- Orc Ambusher: Seems right! You point right when including allies as the foes of Dol Guldur. Might be "Wise characters" instead, but "allies" provides a more stable effect (and is thus also easier to playtest). Thumbs Up
- Malevolent Orc: Great idea! The Orc replaying engine will make this Orc a dangerous tool to retrieve pumps and other tricks. Thumbs Up
- Orc Sentinel: Seems ok. But since he costs twice the Ambusher, I'd raise his strength to 7.


- Hidden: I don't think it should refer to Dwarven followers. The Dol Guldur plot was about Sauron unfurling a mighty army to sweep the northern Middle-earth, so this Pack should be against allies (and that White Council which disrupted his plans), not against a band of vengeful travellers moving in search of glory.

So I'd change the "attached Dwarven follower" to "a Wise character which may participate in skirmishes." Then discarding Gandalf at site 5 will be far more important, Radagast's home site will give him some advantage and cards like Former Herald and Skillful Negociator will weaken Sauron's plans.

The focus will then move to discard/kill/stack Gandalf, while Narzug will deal with fighting Wise allies. The link with Dwarven followers and To Me! O My Kinsfolk! will remain with 2 versions of Gandalf (Leader of Dwarves and Friend of Thorin; LoD will give twilight to play more or bigger Orcs with Hidden). That's much more consistent with the books and films (and pairs better with the Sauron and Wraith Beatdown packs, and with Jail in the Dol Guldur pack).

0 Hidden Sauron
Event • Assignment
Spot a Sauron minion to play an Orc (or 2 Orcs if you cannot spot a Wise character which may participate in skirmishes) from your discard pile.
"Wait, Gandalf! What if it's a trap?!"


- Rise of the Necromancer: The second effect seems very good, but the first worries me a bit. About events, getting Hidden into hand is good, but Dark Sorcery is just too powerful (with its current low cost). On the other hand, non-event cards will be pretty useless until the next shadow phase, 'cause you cannot play them immediatly. At site 9 that'll become more problematic, as you won't have a next site to play minions/conditions, and also your deck will have less Shadow cards to search for.

So I'd give a mecanism to play that non-event card you just got from deck: "You may play that card, or place up to 2 Orcs from your discard pile into your draw deck." That way this "Rise of the Necromancer" will be able to play the Necromancer himself, or a servant like an Orc or Nazgul. Being at the maneuver phase limits some otherwise dangerous combos, like using Danger Wrapped in Shadow's shadow skill immediatly.

0 Rise of the Necromancer Sauron
Event • Maneuver
Spot a Sauron minion to take a Shadow card from your draw deck into hand. You may play that card, or place up to 2 Orcs from your discard pile beneath your draw deck.
"The East will fall... The time of the Elves is over. The Age of the Orc has come."

Also, I strongly recommend increasing the cost of Dark Sorcery, or limit its mighty effect.


- Dark Sorcery: I like the skill a lot, has a really great flavor. But is simply too powerful for such a low cost, moreover with other Sauron cards retrieving it over and over again to peel the whole Company. Dwarven followers and Dwarven artifacts have ways to cope with that (TM! OMK! & Thorin respectively), but there's nothing to return Dwarven possessions and Gandalf or Shire things like Sting, Glamdring or Burglar's Contract. So the effect will be permanent with those cards, and there's no way to prevent it. That's especially worrisome with Sting!

So I'd raise the twilight cost to 2, to prevent using freely many copies provided by Malevolent Orc / Rise of the Necromancer. It should also have an alternative cost, like "The Free Peoples player may exert THAT companion twice to prevent this." That can provide some beatdown power to remove defenders (moreover if you play a surprise pump). May be very important to erase Gandalf sooner. And gives a good flavor of two forces struggling each other Wink.

2 Dark Sorcery Sauron
Event • Skirmish
Spot a Sauron minion to discard a card (except a Ring) borne by a companion it is skirmishing. The Free Peoples player may exert that companion twice to prevent this."
"These are dark spells... old and full of hate."


Hope this helps.


-------


On other subject, I've been working on a different version of Flash-flames. "Wound a minion X times" is totally obscene Evil (reveal a card of 5 or more = Smaug is dead), that needs to be changed...

2 Flash-flames Dwarven
Possession
Bearer must be Balin.
Skirmish: Discard this possession and spot a minion to discard the top card of any draw deck. If that card's twilight cost is lower than that minion's, make it strength -3; otherwise, wound it twice.
"Where is the sulfur?"

Now does some discard on any deck. "Reveal a random card" from opponent's hand is useless if he/she has no hand at all (quite easy with Hatred Rekindled!), and "reveal the top card of a deck" will get you the same value if 2 or more bombs are used in a row. But "discard the top card of any draw deck" is strongly random and extremely hard to block.

Obviously, the ditched card is to get a random value. I changed it to wound a minion twice (if the bomb hits the mark) or make it strength -3 (if fails, the bomb should still provide a distraction). No matter what value you get, you'll still get benefits. The criterion is the minion's twilight cost, so will be much easier to hit a Goblin Runner than a champion like a Nazgul or Azog; Smaug will be almost impossible to wound, but you'll still reap some advantage.

What do you think?
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Which means the common term "Scientific Authority" is totally anti-Scientific!
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« Reply #500 on: February 20, 2017, 02:05:35 PM »

Thank a lot for your comments, even with a delay Wink.


Sauron Swarm Shadow

- Hidden: The game seems now balanced between different versions of Gandalf, but the Leader of the Company seems still the best. I prefer to keep it with Dwarven followers and the use of TMOMK, it's more about the balance of the game than the lore (but Thrain is a Dwarven follower and is the first part of the Dol Guldur fight).


- Rise of the Necromancer: I change it, seems easier to play now.


- Dark Sorcery: I change it, the previous version was too strong with Azog Sauron...


Balin Pack

- Flash-flames The idea of this cards is also to counter Sauron. Sure, Smaug could be dead this way, but there aren't many cards which costs 5 or more and are still in the Shadow player's hand during the assignment phase.
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« Reply #501 on: February 23, 2017, 10:38:22 PM »

You're welcome my friend! It makes my days brighter!


Sauron Swarm Shadow

- Hidden: Ok, seems fair. And Thráin can justify the lore part, as you say. Thumbs Up Wink

- Rise of the Necromancer: Seems good. I'd like it better if played "an Orc or Wraith minion" from deck Wink. The word "reshuffle" is right but is almost never used alone (without "that/your draw deck"), only Denethor LoMT and Undead of Angmar are worded that loose way.


- Dark Sorcery: How many Gandalf cards will be in hand when you play this? I know, like Too Great and Terrible, but in my experience that card can only be countered well by decks dedicated mostly to Gandalf (or Ents). That simply cannot happen in the Hobbit Game! And is extremely important to counter it, since Malevolent Orc will be retrieving this over and over. "1 Gandalf card + another cost" seems better to me, like "the FP player may exert a Wizard and discard a Gandalf card from hand" to prevent this. Not Wise elves or Elven cards, only Wizards and wizardy. Then the Wizard and White Council packs will be in a better shape against Sauron. The Elrond pack might have 1 or 2 Gandalf cards (or an Elven card to retrieve a Gandalf event).

"Discard a Sauron Orc" makes little sense to me, since that will make the defender win the skirmish automatically (unless swarmed). "Discard Sauron" is even worse! He's the master of black magic, why immolate himself? But "wound a Sauron minion" should be better, that can still be paid by an exhausted Orc, and if not exhausted the Orc's threat will remain in the skirmish. And has a flavor thing too: "you hate that guy 'till the point you hurt yourself only to see him fall"... dark spells full of hatred.

"...but I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.
When I hear that whistle blowing, I hang my head and cry."



1 Dark Sorcery Sauron
Event • Skirmish
Wound a Sauron minion to discard a card (except a Ring) borne by a companion it is skirmishing. The Free Peoples player may exert a Wizard and discard a Gandalf card from hand to prevent this.
"These are dark spells... old and full of hate."

A last thing. Should this cost 2 to prevent playing 2 retrieved copies in a row over and over, without an obstructive cost?


Balin Pack

- Flash-flames: My version can try to counter Sauron after assignment. You can try to kill a vitality 2 or 1 Orc/Nazgul sent to kill a Dwarf / Gandalf, and if fails you'll reduce its strength so he has better chances of beating the odds and survive. That can be paired with other ways of wounding (Kili, Dawn Take You All; my version of the Chariot / your version of the Slingshot) or strength reduction (Take Up Arms, Slingshot / Chariot again). We agree about the Slingshot and the Chariot that one must wound and the other must reduce a minion's strength, that's clear. My proposal for the Flash-flames does both (although randomness decides what course will take) so can be helped by those 2 tools.


If you keep the assignment idea, at least add a limit because makes no sense to knock Smaug down with a single gunpowder bomb (and there's already a lot of direct wounding). Limit +2 will be good I think, then one bomb can reduce Sauron's assignment power to one try. Also, as said before, if your opponent has no hand (easy with Hatred Rekindled), reveal a card at random "from your opponent's hand" will be blocked; to avoid that, change it to "any player's hand."

A last thing: I'd change "Bearer must be Balin" to "To play, spot Balin" and turn this into a support area card, that way you'll need Balin's chemistry skills to mix the bombs, but any companion will have the skill required to toss them.


1 Flash-flames Dwarven
Possession • Support Area
To play, spot Balin.
Assignment: Discard this possession and spot a minion to reveal a random card from any player's hand. Wound that minion X times (limit 2), where X is the twilight cost of the card revealed.
"Where's the sulfur?"
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Which means the common term "Scientific Authority" is totally anti-Scientific!
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« Reply #502 on: Today at 10:19:43 AM »

- Rise of the Necromancer: I have to think about the Wraith minion, the text of the card is quite heavy.

- Dark Sorcery: This event must be useful with "exert a Wizard and discard a Gandalf card from hand" it will be too easy to prevent, moreover some Gandalf cards clog the hand when Gandalf is discarded. "Wound a Sauron minion" will make the card playable more than once in the same skirmish.

Btw, you will find here the images of the cards :
http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/SwarmPack3.html

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