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Author Topic: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game  (Read 40698 times)
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-Enola-
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« Reply #495 on: January 21, 2017, 10:08:16 PM »

I think Danger Wrapped In Shadows (playing any Sauron card from the draw deck or taking back all Sauron cards) will always be very helpful for any kind of Sauron Shadows in the SP3. It's the main problem Sad. We can:
- change the Sauron swarm for another Gundabad Shadow
- make a Sauron Shadow in the BP3 and move either the Mirkwood or Corrupted Men Shadow in the SP3. But then the Sauron Shadow should be a Beatdown Shadow.
« Last Edit: January 21, 2017, 10:17:20 PM by -Enola- » Logged

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« Reply #496 on: January 22, 2017, 12:26:21 AM »

I think Danger Wrapped In Shadows (playing any Sauron card from the draw deck or taking back all Sauron cards) will always be very helpful for any kind of Sauron Shadows in the SP3. It's the main problem Sad.
Sauron Swarm needs a lot of minions, while Sauron Swarm needs a lot of twilight. Yes, Danger Wrapped In Shadows can replay / search for any Sauron card, but only 1 per site, by paying 2 and only during the Shadow phase. Not limitless, nor unexpensive. If Rise of the Necromancer gets the "Tol Brandir" text, all copies of Danger Wrapped in Shadows recovered with it (or with any new Sauron condition) won't have enough time to be used in that same site. Which trims that loop's power a lot.

Also, keep in mind Danger Wrapped costs 2, Dark Sorcery 2, Rise 1, Malevolent Orc 3 (+ 1 if played by Hidden). Using Danger Wrapped needs 2 more. So yes, you can regenerate your support area over and over again, but definitely NOT for free, and you'll need twilight to play Orcs. Each turn you don't strike the Company is a turn you give them to set up, and a good set up is perhaps the worst enemy for a swarm. And removing 2 per Orc (per copy of Danger) to build a swarm is too unefficient to be reliable (is both predictable and TOO expensive).

I believe Danger Wrapped isn't a real problem with this Sauron Swarm shadow... even "Rise + Dark Sorcery" in play and 2x Hidden in discard pile can replace it: a) Rise is spent to recover 2x Hidden, b) Dark Sorcery recovers Rise, c) 2x Hidden are spent for 2 Orcs. I'm not worried at all (as long as we add tweaks to balance it, like that "Tol Brandir" text).

With all that in mind, Malevolent Orc worries me much more since it can replay during the mighty Shadow phase a copy of Rise/Danger Wrapped, AND can be played by the universal machinery of Host of Thousands / Hatred Rekindled during that aforementioned phase. So I'm doubting about my proposal for Malevolent Orc's skill.

- change the Sauron swarm for another Gundabad Shadow
- make a Sauron Shadow in the BP3 and move either the Mirkwood or Corrupted Men Shadow in the SP3. But then the Sauron Shadow should be a Beatdown Shadow.
- Gundabad has 1 Swarm & 1 Beatdown packs, so they can coincide. Bolg Commander and Orc Veteran don't lose anything by being mounted, and in case Thorin is dead (Threatening Warg's task), even Orc Pursuer and the mighty Orc Army can use the wounding skill when mounted (if on a War-warg). That's truly powerful!
- Corrupted Men lack any sense as a Swarm shadow, lorewise. The same can be said about Mirkwood Elves.

So those aren't good options to me. Compare the "War pack + Bolg's Army" combo above, with the potential of Danger Wrapped in Shadows + Rise / Dark Sorcery / Sauron Orcs... seems less threatening in my opinion.

But if you still want another Gundabad Swarm pack, I'd much rather have Warg minions than more Orcs.
« Last Edit: January 22, 2017, 03:27:05 AM by Durin's Heir » Logged

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« Reply #497 on: January 26, 2017, 09:45:45 PM »

I try something new. Sauron swarm is now based on Sauron events, there will be less interactions with Danger Wrapped In Shadows then.
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 09:21:22 AM by -Enola- » Logged

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« Reply #498 on: February 03, 2017, 01:48:37 PM »

New cards on the first post for the Sauron swarm in the Beatdown Pack 3.
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« Reply #499 on: February 14, 2017, 11:57:32 PM »

I'm sorry for this very long absence Sad. I've been struggling lately with too many tasks and problems for my scarce vitality to cope with. But I'm alive and well after all, so here it goes...


* Sauron Swarm shadow

I noticed this Shadow may have a hard time against Dale allies, they'll be both fighting and shooting so you'll need to preserve vitality against arrows at the same time you'll need more minions on the board to overwhelm key companions. That will punish the skills that need exertions, which are key to get a swarmng force.

- Orc Ambusher: Seems right! You point right when including allies as the foes of Dol Guldur. Might be "Wise characters" instead, but "allies" provides a more stable effect (and is thus also easier to playtest). Thumbs Up
- Malevolent Orc: Great idea! The Orc replaying engine will make this Orc a dangerous tool to retrieve pumps and other tricks. Thumbs Up
- Orc Sentinel: Seems ok. But since he costs twice the Ambusher, I'd raise his strength to 7.


- Hidden: I don't think it should refer to Dwarven followers. The Dol Guldur plot was about Sauron unfurling a mighty army to sweep the northern Middle-earth, so this Pack should be against allies (and that White Council which disrupted his plans), not against a band of vengeful travellers moving in search of glory.

So I'd change the "attached Dwarven follower" to "a Wise character which may participate in skirmishes." Then discarding Gandalf at site 5 will be far more important, Radagast's home site will give him some advantage and cards like Former Herald and Skillful Negociator will weaken Sauron's plans.

The focus will then move to discard/kill/stack Gandalf, while Narzug will deal with fighting Wise allies. The link with Dwarven followers and To Me! O My Kinsfolk! will remain with 2 versions of Gandalf (Leader of Dwarves and Friend of Thorin; LoD will give twilight to play more or bigger Orcs with Hidden). That's much more consistent with the books and films (and pairs better with the Sauron and Wraith Beatdown packs, and with Jail in the Dol Guldur pack).

0 Hidden Sauron
Event • Assignment
Spot a Sauron minion to play an Orc (or 2 Orcs if you cannot spot a Wise character which may participate in skirmishes) from your discard pile.
"Wait, Gandalf! What if it's a trap?!"


- Rise of the Necromancer: The second effect seems very good, but the first worries me a bit. About events, getting Hidden into hand is good, but Dark Sorcery is just too powerful (with its current low cost). On the other hand, non-event cards will be pretty useless until the next shadow phase, 'cause you cannot play them immediatly. At site 9 that'll become more problematic, as you won't have a next site to play minions/conditions, and also your deck will have less Shadow cards to search for.

So I'd give a mecanism to play that non-event card you just got from deck: "You may play that card, or place up to 2 Orcs from your discard pile into your draw deck." That way this "Rise of the Necromancer" will be able to play the Necromancer himself, or a servant like an Orc or Nazgul. Being at the maneuver phase limits some otherwise dangerous combos, like using Danger Wrapped in Shadow's shadow skill immediatly.

0 Rise of the Necromancer Sauron
Event • Maneuver
Spot a Sauron minion to take a Shadow card from your draw deck into hand. You may play that card, or place up to 2 Orcs from your discard pile beneath your draw deck.
"The East will fall... The time of the Elves is over. The Age of the Orc has come."

Also, I strongly recommend increasing the cost of Dark Sorcery, or limit its mighty effect.


- Dark Sorcery: I like the skill a lot, has a really great flavor. But is simply too powerful for such a low cost, moreover with other Sauron cards retrieving it over and over again to peel the whole Company. Dwarven followers and Dwarven artifacts have ways to cope with that (TM! OMK! & Thorin respectively), but there's nothing to return Dwarven possessions and Gandalf or Shire things like Sting, Glamdring or Burglar's Contract. So the effect will be permanent with those cards, and there's no way to prevent it. That's especially worrisome with Sting!

So I'd raise the twilight cost to 2, to prevent using freely many copies provided by Malevolent Orc / Rise of the Necromancer. It should also have an alternative cost, like "The Free Peoples player may exert THAT companion twice to prevent this." That can provide some beatdown power to remove defenders (moreover if you play a surprise pump). May be very important to erase Gandalf sooner. And gives a good flavor of two forces struggling each other Wink.

2 Dark Sorcery Sauron
Event • Skirmish
Spot a Sauron minion to discard a card (except a Ring) borne by a companion it is skirmishing. The Free Peoples player may exert that companion twice to prevent this."
"These are dark spells... old and full of hate."


Hope this helps.


-------


On other subject, I've been working on a different version of Flash-flames. "Wound a minion X times" is totally obscene Evil (reveal a card of 5 or more = Smaug is dead), that needs to be changed...

2 Flash-flames Dwarven
Possession
Bearer must be Balin.
Skirmish: Discard this possession and spot a minion to discard the top card of any draw deck. If that card's twilight cost is lower than that minion's, make it strength -3; otherwise, wound it twice.
"Where is the sulfur?"

Now does some discard on any deck. "Reveal a random card" from opponent's hand is useless if he/she has no hand at all (quite easy with Hatred Rekindled!), and "reveal the top card of a deck" will get you the same value if 2 or more bombs are used in a row. But "discard the top card of any draw deck" is strongly random and extremely hard to block.

Obviously, the ditched card is to get a random value. I changed it to wound a minion twice (if the bomb hits the mark) or make it strength -3 (if fails, the bomb should still provide a distraction). No matter what value you get, you'll still get benefits. The criterion is the minion's twilight cost, so will be much easier to hit a Goblin Runner than a champion like a Nazgul or Azog; Smaug will be almost impossible to wound, but you'll still reap some advantage.

What do you think?
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« Reply #500 on: February 20, 2017, 02:05:35 PM »

Thank a lot for your comments, even with a delay Wink.


Sauron Swarm Shadow

- Hidden: The game seems now balanced between different versions of Gandalf, but the Leader of the Company seems still the best. I prefer to keep it with Dwarven followers and the use of TMOMK, it's more about the balance of the game than the lore (but Thrain is a Dwarven follower and is the first part of the Dol Guldur fight).


- Rise of the Necromancer: I change it, seems easier to play now.


- Dark Sorcery: I change it, the previous version was too strong with Azog Sauron...


Balin Pack

- Flash-flames The idea of this cards is also to counter Sauron. Sure, Smaug could be dead this way, but there aren't many cards which costs 5 or more and are still in the Shadow player's hand during the assignment phase.
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« Reply #501 on: February 23, 2017, 10:38:22 PM »

You're welcome my friend! It makes my days brighter!


Sauron Swarm Shadow

- Hidden: Ok, seems fair. And Thráin can justify the lore part, as you say. Thumbs Up Wink

- Rise of the Necromancer: Seems good. I'd like it better if played "an Orc or Wraith minion" from deck Wink. The word "reshuffle" is right but is almost never used alone (without "that/your draw deck"), only Denethor LoMT and Undead of Angmar are worded that loose way.


- Dark Sorcery: How many Gandalf cards will be in hand when you play this? I know, like Too Great and Terrible, but in my experience that card can only be countered well by decks dedicated mostly to Gandalf (or Ents). That simply cannot happen in the Hobbit Game! And is extremely important to counter it, since Malevolent Orc will be retrieving this over and over. "1 Gandalf card + another cost" seems better to me, like "the FP player may exert a Wizard and discard a Gandalf card from hand" to prevent this. Not Wise elves or Elven cards, only Wizards and wizardy. Then the Wizard and White Council packs will be in a better shape against Sauron. The Elrond pack might have 1 or 2 Gandalf cards (or an Elven card to retrieve a Gandalf event).

"Discard a Sauron Orc" makes little sense to me, since that will make the defender win the skirmish automatically (unless swarmed). "Discard Sauron" is even worse! He's the master of black magic, why immolate himself? But "wound a Sauron minion" should be better, that can still be paid by an exhausted Orc, and if not exhausted the Orc's threat will remain in the skirmish. And has a flavor thing too: "you hate that guy 'till the point you hurt yourself only to see him fall"... dark spells full of hatred.

"...but I shot a man in Reno just to watch him die.
When I hear that whistle blowing, I hang my head and cry."



1 Dark Sorcery Sauron
Event • Skirmish
Wound a Sauron minion to discard a card (except a Ring) borne by a companion it is skirmishing. The Free Peoples player may exert a Wizard and discard a Gandalf card from hand to prevent this.
"These are dark spells... old and full of hate."

A last thing. Should this cost 2 to prevent playing 2 retrieved copies in a row over and over, without an obstructive cost?


Balin Pack

- Flash-flames: My version can try to counter Sauron after assignment. You can try to kill a vitality 2 or 1 Orc/Nazgul sent to kill a Dwarf / Gandalf, and if fails you'll reduce its strength so he has better chances of beating the odds and survive. That can be paired with other ways of wounding (Kili, Dawn Take You All; my version of the Chariot / your version of the Slingshot) or strength reduction (Take Up Arms, Slingshot / Chariot again). We agree about the Slingshot and the Chariot that one must wound and the other must reduce a minion's strength, that's clear. My proposal for the Flash-flames does both (although randomness decides what course will take) so can be helped by those 2 tools.


If you keep the assignment idea, at least add a limit because makes no sense to knock Smaug down with a single gunpowder bomb (and there's already a lot of direct wounding). Limit +2 will be good I think, then one bomb can reduce Sauron's assignment power to one try. Also, as said before, if your opponent has no hand (easy with Hatred Rekindled), reveal a card at random "from your opponent's hand" will be blocked; to avoid that, change it to "any player's hand."

A last thing: I'd change "Bearer must be Balin" to "To play, spot Balin" and turn this into a support area card, that way you'll need Balin's chemistry skills to mix the bombs, but any companion will have the skill required to toss them.


1 Flash-flames Dwarven
Possession • Support Area
To play, spot Balin.
Assignment: Discard this possession and spot a minion to reveal a random card from any player's hand. Wound that minion X times (limit 2), where X is the twilight cost of the card revealed.
"Where's the sulfur?"
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« Reply #502 on: February 24, 2017, 10:19:43 AM »

- Rise of the Necromancer: I have to think about the Wraith minion, the text of the card is quite heavy.

- Dark Sorcery: This event must be useful with "exert a Wizard and discard a Gandalf card from hand" it will be too easy to prevent, moreover some Gandalf cards clog the hand when Gandalf is discarded. "Wound a Sauron minion" will make the card playable more than once in the same skirmish.

Btw, you will find here the images of the cards :
http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/SwarmPack3.html

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« Reply #503 on: February 25, 2017, 12:19:52 PM »

Sauron Swarm Shadow

- Narzug: I've been thinking a bit about Narzug, and this pack provides no way to force his skill. He might be useful to counter allies like Percy, but perhaps is better to leave some FP cultures as natural strong opponents against this Shadow pack.

- Rise of the Necromancer: This little addition should be enough:

0 Rise of the Necromancer Sauron
Event • Maneuver
Spot a Sauron minion to play an Orc or Wraith minion from your draw deck, then reshuffle. You may place up to 2 Orcs from your discard pile beneath your draw deck.
"The East will fall... The time of the Elves is over. The Age of the Orc has come."

5 lines for gametext and 2 for lore. Nazguls feel comfortable in the discard pile, so you don't need to add them to the recycling part.


- Dark Sorcery: Totally agree, must be useful. But its power to erase Sting/Glamdring must be counterable too (moreover with Malevolent Orc retrieving it so easily). Look it this way: if is countered X times, will still be useful to exert X Wizards and force the discard of X powerful Gandalf tricks. But TGaT's "discard 2 Gandalf cards from hand" is really hard to pay, I know it by fact. It's because of this: to be able to discard 2 Gandalf cards, you need to have them first and that means (without any drawing engine) 25+% of your hand, which is really high. Then you must retain 2, abstaining yourself from playing them immediatly (therefore items/allies/conditions can seldom help). And that's to counter 1 copy only, but sometimes you're struck by 2 in a row... which is what Malevolent Orc will do here.

I play in FOTR block a Gandalf + Dwarven deck comprised of 38/38 cards. 13 of them are Gandalf (a bit more than 1/3). It also has a very mighty FP drawing engine, which draws systematically 3 to 5 cards before moving (the Grey Pilgrim + Book of Mazarbul + Ottar). Still, my experience tells me that is extremely rare to have 2+ Gandalf cards in the right time to counter TGaT. That's because 5 of those 13 are immediatly played when drawn (items/allies), and 1 more is the copy of Gandalf that TGaT tries to wound. So only 7 cards can try to counter TGaT. Is insufficient, even with those 3 or 5 cards extending my hand; that is the equivalent of a 14,2% or 16,7% ratio respectively for a 8-cards hand. Far from a real menace to TGaT.

Things are much worse in the Hobbit Game. The Main deck provides 6 Gandalf cards; the FP pack has 8 more (per 2 players), of which you'll probably draft 5 or 6 if you focus on Gandalf. So then you'll have around 11 or 12 Gandalf cards in deck if you include every Gandalf card you got. But Gandalf, Glamdring and AWINL are played immediatly, so discount 3 or 4. That's 7 to 9, for a deck of 60 minimum (less those 3 or 4 cards). Without a drawing engine. That's 12,3% to 16,1%, in the happiest of the cases. But decks will rarely be 30/30, and you won't be always drafting all Gandalf cards in sight. All the necessary support for Dwarves and Bilbo will take its toll against the Gandalf ratio. You'll note it when playtesting...

The Wizard Pack (15 Gandalf cards) and White Council Pack (10 Gandalf cards) can enrich the pool. But only 4 in each are events, all the rest is immediatly played after being drawn. Extra copies of unique cards can help to raise that number a bit, but not too much. Gwaihir will be consuming Gandalf cards... All in all, even in those specialized cases the cost is too high, and those necessary Dwarven and Shire cards in deck will be lowering the Gandalf ratio.


So I'd lower that towering cost to something affordable. And to balance that lower counter cost, a lower playing cost like "wound a Sauron minion." And raise copies to 3x, so it can appear early enough; then Malevolent Orc's recovering effect will be much more stable. The previous version of Rise of the Necromancer could grab Dark Sorcery sooner, but we cannot rely on it anymore.


Balin Pack

- Flash-flames You still don't say a word about my latest thoughts on this.


I should be commenting in the next days about the new changes in the Goblin-town Archery shadow, and other Supplementary packs. I hope so, but who knows for sure.
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« Reply #504 on: February 25, 2017, 04:32:48 PM »

- Narzug: I've been thinking a bit about Narzug, and this pack provides no way to force his skill. He might be useful to counter allies like Percy, but perhaps is better to leave some FP cultures as natural strong opponents against this Shadow pack.

Since his archer ability will be used in the Goblin archery Shadow, I don't think it's necessary to add it.


- Rise of the Necromancer: In order to avoid the "an Orc or Wraith minion" which is too long (it's in the Sauron's text, but Sauron is in the pack with the Wraith minions, not Rise of the Necromancer), I propose only a minion.

0 Rise of the Necromancer Sauron
Event • Maneuver
Exert a Sauron minion to play a minion from your draw deck, then reshuffle. You may place up to 2 Orcs from your discard pile beneath your draw deck.
"The East will fall... The time of the Elves is over. The Age of the Orc has come."


- Dark Sorcery: "wound a Sauron minion" doesn't resolve the problem of Sauron Azog...


- Flash-flames: I'm much more focused on the Shadow Pack 3 now. I will answer later.
« Last Edit: February 25, 2017, 09:24:34 PM by -Enola- » Logged

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« Reply #505 on: February 27, 2017, 09:31:52 PM »

- Narzug: Alright. Also, you can direct the arrows shot by Dale men to him to trigger his skill. Thumbs Up

- Rise of the Necromancer: It looks too similar to Fimbul Sad. He's more expensive (2 and self-discards, vs an exertion) and this event recovers 2 Orcs to deck. But your original event version was able to take a Shadow event from deck, and that synergizes strongly with Malevolent Orc to make Shadow events a mightier and more stable resource. Malevolent Orc repeats any event you played/discarded, but events that haven't shown up are far from his reach, thus events with few copies will behave very differently in different games (depending on if you get them soon or late). Having a resource to get them directly from deck will fix that unstability (btw, playtesting will be much easier! Cheesy)...

0 Rise of the Necromancer Sauron
Event • Maneuver
Spot a Sauron minion to play a minion (or take a Shadow event into hand) from your draw deck, then reshuffle. You may place up to 2 Orcs from your discard pile beneath your draw deck.
"The East will fall... The time of the Elves is over. The Age of the Orc has come."

Rise of the Necromancer to start the engine, and Malevolent Orc to keep the wheels rolling...


- Dark Sorcery: True. Perhaps "exert a Sauron minion" will be better; then Battle of Azanulbizar, Dawn Take You All or Kili twice will stop Sauron Azog. Exhausted Sauron Orcs would be assigned to companions the FP player wants to protect from Dark Sorcery. Given such increase in cost, a twilight cost of 0. And a moderate or expensive prevention cost (BUT NOT Too Great and Terrible's, it's almost impossible to pay!), like "the FP player may exert that companion twice"; the minion's vitality will make impossible for anyone but Sauron Azog, Sauron Bolg and Sauron himself to play more than one single copy (and will stop exhausted Sauron minions from playing any)...

0 Dark Sorcery Sauron
Event • Skirmish
Exert a Sauron minion to discard a card (except a Ring) borne by a character it is skirmishing. The Free Peoples player may exert that character twice to prevent this.
"These are dark spells... old and full of hate."

Grind (similar to Mordor's Strength), or discard a card borne. The grind effect can be supported by Anger (sponsored by Malevolent Orc Wink), to threaten to get an easy kill; knowing that pump is in hand (or fearing it might be), the FP player will often prefer to surrender that card. Also, changed "companion" to "character" to make fighting allies eligible targets too.


Now, these Sauron Orcs have too little vitality, so I would not recommend to make both Dark Sorcery and Rise of the Necromancer need to "exert a Sauron minion." So Rise must either "exert an Orc," or cost 1 or 2 and "spot a Sauron minion."
« Last Edit: February 28, 2017, 03:02:41 AM by Durin's Heir » Logged

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« Reply #506 on: February 28, 2017, 10:08:45 AM »

I change the text of the cards in the first post (the card images are not always updated).

Dark Sorcery is far different now. I prefer to keep Rise of the Necromancer without any "and or "or" conditions...
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« Reply #507 on: March 09, 2017, 01:32:45 PM »

10 days without posting anything... Sad


* Sauron Swarm Shadow

- Dark Sorcery: Interesting! I like it, but change "spot" for "exert" to give a way of trying to counter (Battle of Azanulbizar, and perhaps Burning Fir Cones). Thumbs Up

- Rise of the Necromancer: I like the effect... but during assignment! Twisted! That way, this event won't take the FP player by surprise (Anger already does that), and he/she won't be killing your fuel-Orcs in skirmishes. A single defender, facing a hopeless fate. EDIT: That's retarded. Sorry.

"...but still Gandalf could be seen, glimmering in the gloom; he seemed small, and altogether alone: grey and bent, like a wizened tree before the onset of a storm."

What I dislike is the prevention cost. "2 Dwarf companions" is simply too much... perhaps "2 Dwarves," which includes both followers and companions? Paired with Yazneg and Dark Sorcery, you'll either discard every Dwarven follower, or force the FP player to discard Dwarf companions to prevent it.

1 Rise of the Necromancer Sauron
Event • Assignment
Discard any number of your Orcs from play to make a Sauron minion fierce and strength +3 until the regroup phase for each Orc discarded. The Free Peoples player may discard 2 Dwarves to prevent this.
"The East will fall... The time of the Elves is over. The Age of the Orc has come."

It has another utility: discard 0 Orcs = make a Sauron minion fierce.



* Goblin Archery Shadow

I think you're pouring too many unpreventable wounding cards into this Shadow. It's the same problem of Bolg's Army (before changing into Regroup wounding): the only available-to-all ways to avoid the pre-skirmish wounding are Kili, Battle of Azanulbizar and Bofur (and only Bofur doesn't exchange wounds for wounds). Later in skirmish these archers can try to wound again, which is alright but as long as their strength/cost ratio, their pumps and their skills are all low or moderate. But that isn't the case. To counter companion replacing and Óin there's Not At Home and Yazneg, so only Elrond will be there consistently to mop up a small part of that wound token flooding...

The original idea I proposed was a rabble of very cheap archers with good strength but a low precision, whose arrows could then be avoided by alternative costs the FP player may pay. Some costs (like doubts) would then be used by the Shadow player for an increased skirmish potential. But this Shadow is quite the opposite: more and more arrows, not less. While keeping the high skirmish potential and low cost! And now has wound prevention, but not balanced by a decrease in the aforementioned factors... Angry I just don't like the way this will behave in playtestings. Think



- Great Goblin's Sceptre: I don't like the idea of a unique weapon with specific bearers in a Swarm pack; it goes against the nature of a rabble of generic minions carrying generic tools (if any). Besides, the pack already has a weapon, and thus both will compete for the Footman's skill: you won't have regularly enough Footmen and twilight to play both tools consistently. Thus, putting a key skill on the Sceptre will force your Footmen to focus on keeping it in play, leaving only the possible lefotvers to play your Bows. Those combos work better in Beatdown shadows (more tools means less resources in hand to play minions).

I'd much rather keep the Bonebreaker (remains on the board). But I like the Sceptre's protective skill; it'd work wonders if was put directly on the Great Goblin. That way he'd protect archers when shooting and fighting, and then the Bonebreaker would be there to harvest any survivor for more wounding. Like Azog's Mace, the Sceptre might be included in a Supplementary pack.


- The Great Goblin: Totally OP, like Orc Cutthroath but without having to exert! Shocked And no limit at all! Evil And unlike the Cutthroat, this guy is fierce, is extremely easy to replay, and has a tool to protect his Orc-fuel... with no Armor, Gimli's Helm or Rohan mounts to hinder him! Angry The expensive prevention cost (add a doubt) is far from enough to balance an ability so easy to pay and repeat. Shame on you! No way! Cop

I see you want to make room for the new Sceptre, by absorbing the Bonebreaker's wounding role. But would be better then to copy the original regroup skill without changes (btw, he's the most able to survive). Or add a "limit once" to the skirmish idea (is fierce, so can deliver 4 wounds). Or as said above, make the Great Goblin absorb the Sceptre's protective skill, and instead keep the Bonebreaker doing the wound thing. I like th latter much better:

4 •The Great Goblin, Goblin-King Moria
Minion • Orc
Strength 10  Vitality 3  Site 4
Fierce.
Each Orc archer is twilight cost -1.
Response: If an Orc archer is about to take a wound, exert the Great Goblin to prevent that wound.
"Slash them! Beat them! Bite them! Gnash them! Take them away to dark holes full of snakes..."


- Goblin Archer Troop: Compared to Moria Archer Troop, costs 2/3 but can shoot and fight the same. So should have 2/3 of its vitality. That'd make Battle of Azanulbizar a viable counter (2 arrows for 1 exertion). Moreover, you're now including a new protection mechanism and that justifies a vitality reduction. Or else this minion will be almost unkillable (damage +2 companions are very rare... only Thorin + Orcrist, and Fili/Glóin/Dwalin + the exerting Bombur).


- Goblin Town Band: Your Moria archers are mightier than Decipher's: this is Goblin Marksman, but vitality +1 and can potentially shoot 1 more arrow! Also, Decipher gave the FP more shields, healing and wound prevention... so this ain't going to end up well. It also refers to Bilbo, but while the Dwarves were being whipped and chased by Goblins, Bilbo faced only the Aggresor and Gollum. I know the idea is to punish Bilbo's utility as a pin cushion, but there may be better ways:

3 Goblin Town Band Moria
Minion • Orc
Strength 6  Vitality 1  Site 4
Archer.
While you can spot an exhausted companion, this minion is strength +6 and does not add to the minion archery total.
"It was dark, but not too dark for the night-eyes of Orcs..."

If chasing a slowed down exhausted guy, the Goblins of this band toss their bows and take up their knives: a str 12 archer minion, who doesn't shoot (but can still use the skills of Goblin Bow and the Sceptre/Great Goblin). That forces the FP player to distribute the wounds, which makes Bilbo can absorb max 3 arrows, makes skirmishes more dangerous, and punishes Kili's sharpshooting and Fili's protection of exhausted guys. Of course, the exhausting can happen while or after shooting, in which case this band will have both benefits (a Highlander Charge!). I believe this should be better.


- Goblin Town Archer: Crowd control. I don't like Goblins referring to Bilbo, but this one seems balanced. As far as the Goblin Town Band doesn't refer to wounds on Bilbo specifically.

If you're open to other "when you play this minion" ideas, this archer might allow you to "remove 2 doubts to play another Orc archer from your discard pile". Or "the Free Peoples player may add a doubt to discard it" (like Dunlending Renegade and Dunlending Rampager), for instant doubts to use at skirmish. Those alternatives wouldn't need 6+ companions to be useful.



As said at the beginning, the idea is to allow the FP player to reduce the minion archery total, and that'd be compensated by higher strength, better skirmish skills, and some corruption and regroup wounding potential.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 09:21:58 PM by Durin's Heir » Logged

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Which means the common term "Scientific Authority" is totally anti-Scientific!
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« Reply #508 on: March 10, 2017, 03:13:46 PM »

Sauron Swarm Shadow

- Rise of the Necromancer:

1 Rise of the Necromancer Sauron
Event • Assignment
Discard any number of your Orcs from play to make a Sauron minion fierce and strength +3 until the regroup phase for each Orc discarded. The Free Peoples player may discard 2 Dwarves to prevent this.
"The East will fall... The time of the Elves is over. The Age of the Orc has come."

I'm not sure you understand well the strategy of the Sauron Swarm Sad. Such event will be useless, a way to create a big minion and no swarm is not what a Shadow based on swarm wants... moreover the event you proposed will be easily counter by the FP player....  Doh!


Goblin Archery Shadow

The Shadow has been playtested 4 times, and it seems balanced....
Btw, the skirmish of the Great Goblin is often the last skirmish, it makes great battles between Thorin and him. Some adjustments could be still required.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 03:50:53 PM by -Enola- » Logged

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« Reply #509 on: March 10, 2017, 05:55:41 PM »

* Sauron Swarm Shadow

- Rise of the Necromancer: Alright, "assignment" was very stupid Embarrassed... (I was thinking about Sauron overwhelming 2 guys, but that's Beatdown, and would also need more copies to appear soon enough.) Brick Wall Skirmish phase then. My apologies!

And yes, the prevention cost I gave was too low.. but what I dislike about "discard 2 Dwarven companions" is that it simply cannot be undone (unlike followers). Those valuable defenders will dissapear, there's no difference with "removed from the game" (and little with "killed"). Unlike this event, which can be repeated over and over (if not drawn too late). Besides, the effect is very variable, but the steep prevention cost is fixed. It's not proportional. Moreover, discarding followers would promote the use of To Me! O My Kinsfolk! (which is a thing you wanted). So I think this might be much better: skirmish phase, +3 str per Orc, but a variable prevention cost proportional to the effect:

1 Rise of the Necromancer Sauron
Event • Skirmish
Discard X Orcs from play to make a Sauron minion strength +3 for each Orc discarded. The Free Peoples player may discard X Free Peoples cards from play (except Bilbo) to prevent this.
"The East will fall... The time of the Elves is over. The Age of the Orc has come."

The more Orcs are discarded, the harder will be to prevent. Working along with Dark Sorcery and Yazneg to peel FP resources off, the Shadow player can easily calculate how many Orcs are needed to force the FP player to discard some allies and companions (or choose to face the evil tide). And Malevolent Orc can repeat it.



* Goblin Archery Shadow

The Shadow has been playtested 4 times, and it seems balanced....
How many of those 4 were with the Sceptre protecting archers? That's very important, because makes those high vitality Goblin archers even harder to kill, and also much stronger fighters. But given its temporary nature, I believe this Sceptre will behave like The Pale Blade: a powerful temporary boost for the turn, but never the center of the Shadow. Played if you have it in hand. A permanent tool would be better for the Shadow (and easier to playtest).

The minimum resources you need to recover the Sceptre (with full effect) use 8: 4 the Great Goblin + 3 Goblin Footman + 1 the Sceptre itself. 2 cards in hand and 8, and still NOT A SINGLE ARCHER to use that protection. So it won't work well as a temporary thing, which needs to be replayed over and over. You can't base your Shadow on such an expensive combo. Then, if your Shadow is not based on it, will be only a fancy temporary addition. Thus, the protection effect will be equally unstable. And that protection (stable or unstable) must be balanced with the (stable) attributes of Goblin archers (mainly their high vitality).

You can place the protection skill directly on the Great Goblin, then the protective effect will need only 1 card and 4 (and natural Archers would get a cost reduction!). That's much more stable, it'd make that protection a common influence for this Shadow. Therefore, easier to balance with the base attributes of generic Archers. Using the same resources as the example above (8 and 2 cards), the Footman would then recover a Goblin Bow for himself and be an archer, getting the Great Goblin's protection.

The Sceptre can instead be a big weapon (with skills like Ugluk's Sword, Sword of Dol Guldur or Staff of Saruman); it might even carry the Great Goblin's current skill that "makes great battles between Thorin and him." Or its slots used by a support area card like the Bonebreaker. Or even a self-replayable Sceptre (like Dissension or If He Loses); but the Footman's replay role shouldn't be deviated from recovering the Goblin Bows.


Balin's Pack has only a Bridging Troll. There's a free slot for another Shadow card. Perhaps the Goblin Bonebreaker (a modified verison) will fit well there. Or the Sceptre, if the Bonebreaker is kept in the Swarm Pack 3.
« Last Edit: March 10, 2017, 09:35:01 PM by Durin's Heir » Logged

"Therefore, signore Simplicio, bring us your proof or the reasons and proofs of Aristotle, but not quotations and mere authorities; for our studies deal with the world of the senses, not a world of paper" - Dialogue Concerning the Two Chief World Systems, Galileo Galilei, 1632.

Which means the common term "Scientific Authority" is totally anti-Scientific!

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