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Author Topic: Next Updates for the Hobbit Draft Game  (Read 163655 times)
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Dictionary
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« Reply #645 on: September 11, 2018, 05:32:48 PM »

Hey Durin's Heir, good to see you too Smiley I've been more dormant recently, but still try to keep up to date with everything that's going on. Was glad to hear your health has improved.

I think the issue here is that "advice" is not a countable object. You can have "a piece of advice" or "some advice" but you cannot have "one advice", "two advice" or "an advice". This is different to your example because days are countable.

I still don't really have the background to comment on the cards balance-wise, but I really like some of the cards in this set.
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Durin's Heir
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« Reply #646 on: September 12, 2018, 01:00:14 AM »

- Betsy Butterbur: I can't find a HD and luminous image with her and Gandalf.
Hmmm, true. Let it as it is then!

- Burning Fir Cones: The whole pack is around skirmish events. This possession works well with the pack.
But at least should reveal ONLY the skirmish events that will fuel it. You said some 3 1/2 years ago that you didn't want cards like Treachery Deeper Than You Know, since knowing the whole hand of an opponent is too powerful in a Draft format.

- Thrór: No, the current version works well, players love him!
Hmm, it's a slight change in gameplay (-1 Dwarf in Dead Pile, + 3 and some exertions). But a deep change in portraying: all Dwarf companions in the HDG are part of the Company (except Thrór only), and obviously all were alive when Bilbo left Bag End.

Agree, it looks like a lovely card to have in hands and play!

- Don't know yet about the Scouting Warg and Bill Ferny Sr .
The change in the Scouting Warg would be somewhat big, it needs some good thinking.

But Ferny is much simpler: in Constructed, either Ferny alone (not R-listed) or with the assistance of Fimbul will be a huge headache for Thorin. Because Thorin is your main fighter, and Beatdown decks become huge in Constructed format, having all the tools and minions they need. So it shouldn't just shut him down as a defender vs Smaug / Giants / Lakemen (once you've managed to remove Kili from the equation).

- Catapult Troll: Some players love random effects, and this one is well balanced.
Hmm, alright. Depends then on the impact it has on the game: is that random effect discarding the right possessions/followers, and the right time to hinder the Company? My version only fixes the twilight range that will receive the stone, but the discarded support card will be still decided by the FP player.

In either way, I'd increase its base strength to 11 like Goblin Flankers.

- Sauron: A Gundabad culture in the Swarm Packs was a mistake.
Sauron seems balanced now, and Fimbul is necessary to make it good.
Interesting. Alright.



More Yet To Come... (no more updates in this post, except perhaps orthography and errors, but no additions)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 02:00:32 AM by Durin's Heir » Logged

"You think you got it all locked up inside
And if you beat 'em enough, they'll die.
It's like a walk in the park from a cell.
Now you're keeping
YOUR OWN KIND in #$&*@!.
When your Great Wall rocks, blame yourself
While their arms reach out for your help
And you're out of time."


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« Reply #647 on: September 12, 2018, 01:52:21 AM »

@Dictionary: Thanks a lot for your help! You can still comment the cards, even if you're not sure about the impact in the draft game Wink.

Travellers Pack

- No Finer Blade: Terrifying Legend (Town Hall) and No Riddles in the Dark (Old Thrush) have counter cards. Nazguls and Trolls could be countered too. Only Smaug... The card is ok.

- Burning Fir Cones: The Free Peoples player reveals his or her hand, so the Free Peoples Player decides to reveal it or not.

- Bill Ferny Sr.: Ok for the following version

2 •Bill Ferny Sr., Agent of Azog [Gundabad]
Minion • Man
Strength 4  Vitality 2  Site 2
Damage +1.
Thorin is defender +1.
Shadow: Discard 2 cards from hand to play Bill Ferny Sr. from your discard pile.
Assignment: Assign Bill Ferny Sr. to Thorin.
"A promise of payment... for your head."

- Scouting Warg: The current card is great and is a perfect counter to all FP possessions in this pack (we always need counters to the FP cards in a supplementary pack!).


Elrond Pack

- Rivendell Scout: Ok for archer. (2) is great.

- Dark Sorcery: "Exert 2 Orcs to draw 2 cards" will be too much OP! Btw, Threat of the Unknown is an event... The card is great, no need to change it.


Balin Pack:

- Thrór: We change the story, Thrór could still be alive at the beginning of this journey. He and his shieldman would have to die to bring informations to the Company...

- Ori's Slingshot: The card is good now. A first version of the card made the bearer of Ori an archer, it was too good...

- Catapult Troll and Bridging Troll: Be careful! Both are very good with the Azog Shadow.... I want to make all Moria Trolls 5, str 10 and vita 3.


Blue Mountains Pack

- Dwarven Warhammer: Ok for "Bearer must be a Dwarven companion".

- Bombur Barrel Rider: Yes, you're right. I cut the heal part, the card will be strong enough with this version:

3 Eager for Brawl Dwarven
Event • Response
If the fellowship moves during the regroup phase, discard a Dwarven follower with a twilight cost of X to discard X minions (except Smaug).
"Go Bombur! Go!"



=====================================

These cards will also change:

New Game texts
Iron Hills Chariot
Betsy Butterbur
He Is Summoning his Servants

New Lore texts
Vilya
Hadafang
Rivendell Scout
Dark Sorcery
Balin's Armor
Ori's Slingshot
Careful with These  (no need to change the image?)
The Ancient Forges

New Titles
No Finner Blade -> No Finer Blade
A Wise Advice -> Wise Advice
Careful with These -> Blunt The Knives!
Bombur Barrel Rider -> Eager for Brawl


=====================================


I will not be at home before Monday, I won't change the card images before Monday evening.

Btw, all these card changes will be made without any further tests. I have to print all the Last Packs in less than one or two weeks and no player will be available to test the changes before the end of September. The next Hobbit Draft Game Championship will be held the 10th or 24th November.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 02:30:45 AM by -Enola- » Logged

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Durin's Heir
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« Reply #648 on: September 12, 2018, 05:10:22 AM »

- No Finer Blade: OK for Glamdring only, but what about the damage bonus?

- Burning Fir Cones: "Discard this possession to reveal your hand." In order to reveal ONLY FP skirmish events, in order to wound minions. Why not skip the revealing of your whole hand, and instead reveal merely the FP skirmish events you need to get wounding? That's all I'm saying.

If you reveal a hand with little Shadow power, and don't use/discard most of it before ending your turn, your opponent will have a much easier decision as to double move or not in his/her own turn. There's no need to reveal so much information.

- Bill Ferny Sr.: I like your new version a lot, it's clear and simple! Thumbs Up

- Scouting Warg: But what about Yazneg? Does he take the limelight when bearing it (which I believe was one of the goals)?



- Rivendell Scout: Thumbs Up as archer.

- Dark Sorcery: Threat of the Unknown is an event, but costs 0 (and most of the times, you'll want to draw at your first chance just to set up sooner). Exerting 2 Orcs isn't so easy (Orcs are easier to wound and have small vitality), and means losing a lot of strength versus direct wounding (think about Osgiliath Crossing vs direct wounding like Greenleaf or Rohirrim Bow, it's setting up but doing zero damage!). That'd be powerful to set up at the early and perhaps middle game, but later it's totally detrimental.

Without twilight addition, drawing cards cannot overcome the cost of crippling vitality (you'll need twilight to play the things just drawn to hand). Moria Swarm can create twilight, but they have no extra vitality to spend!



- Thrór: I always interpreted your self-SFTF starting-companion Thrór as the easiest way of affecting the game (and sending him to dead pile) without adding weird texts (like "While in your dead pile, Thrór's gametext remains active") AND also from the very beginning. He is played and dies at site 1, before fighting or shooting, merely as a representation of him being dead and affecting the Longbeards before Bilbo starts his journey.

So he only needs to 1) be a starting companion, and 2) die before moving to site 2, as a cost to get his profound effect. That's alright, but there's no need to kill another Dwarf! Nor to change the story.* (see below, it's somewhat long but I think is worthy!)

- Ori's Slingshot: Ok. What about something milder, like "Ori can be attached for free"? He's the weakest of all followers, and although his Aid cost is mild, he'll be using a Dwarven follower slot so making his attachment free makes him more appealing (and will synergize with Balin a lot more).

- Catapult Troll and Bridging Troll: Ok then for the identical base attributes. But if attributes won't change, what about a keyword (fierce or dmg+1)? Their cost is high, and outside the Trolls or Azog's Army packs, they have no support (except Anger).

- Dwarven Warhammer: Thumbs Up

- Eager For Brawl: Thumbs Up Great!

=====================================

The list is ok, I lack only the review of He Is Summoning His Servants from that list. But is coming, along with others that I'm yet missing, just wait one or two days and every detail should be reviewed.

Careful with These  (no need to change the image?)
Yes! There's a lot of good pictures that can be used, anything will work well (except Óin playing the teapot! Doh!). I took these 2 snapshots in a quick review, those look good (but my talent for this is negative, you'll do it much better):

0:27:45 EE
0:27:46 EE


=====================================


I will not be at home before Monday, I won't change the card images before Monday evening.

Btw, all these card changes will be made without any further tests.
Before Monday should be posted the last of all the reviewed cards. I know that most cards cannot change anything but lesser parts of their functionality (in case it's needed). I'll wait for Bombur blowing the Horn then!


=============


* If keeping Azog alive was a huge mistake by PJ, keeping Thrór alive is even worse: no War of the Dwarves and Orcs, so Sauron's many huge Orc armies in the Misty Mountains aren't swept by the vengeance-thirsty Dwarven host. Thus he can assault both Lothlórien AND Rivendell as he wished (according to Gandalf, in the Unfinished Tales) -even simultaneously, thus blocking any reinforcements-, to get an Elven Ring or two and by the way erase his old and mighty Elf enemies. Then the Dúnedain, the remaining White Council, Thráin and his Ring, Gollum with The One, and the Shire, all are left to their own luck against the Dark Lord of the East... and North.

That's the importance of Thrór entering Moria "as an heir that returns", moved by some irrational desire that he never understood. It's an eucatastrophe at its full expression: Thrór first, and then more than half of all the Dwarf warriors gathered "from the four corners of the world" died in a bitter war in a lapse of 9 years. Drawn from poorness and exile to the battlefield, just to gain nothing. But as a result, Sauron's plans to conquer all Northern Middle Earth and get back the Rings of Power, all bled out as his Orkish strongholds and armies were swept one by one from the secret positions he needed to assault the Noldor (his ambush to Celebrian in the High Pass serves as a good example).

It was the wicked cruelty of his lieutenant Azog which created a totally unnecessary war with the wrong enemy, and his clumsy underestimation of that enemy's power what turned his northern legions into dust and bones: believing the Dwarven Host would be stopped after assaulting a few Orc strongholds, he kept the secrecy and didn't gather them all until it was too late. And so his war schemes were forced to turn down south on Gondor, and he left the North alone for a good time. Which allowed Bilbo to find The One, and the Shirefolk to survive, and Elendil's Heir... And so Thrór's death and the Dwarven blood at their pyrrhic victory bought Middle Earth a new chance, that's the eucatastrophe hidden here!

"It means, master Baggins, you should never underestimate Dwarves."

So no! It's not a good idea to change the story and keep Thrór alive. Nor to kill his shieldman! Wink

(That's the background that made me want to create a "War of the Dwarves and Orcs" Supplementary Pack, with Nár and "Burned Dwarves" and "Azog, King of Moria"... PJ should have given Orlando Bloom a cameo merely, and use a 10th of that paycheck instead to surround himself with good Tolkien scholars!)
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 05:21:21 AM by Durin's Heir » Logged

"You think you got it all locked up inside
And if you beat 'em enough, they'll die.
It's like a walk in the park from a cell.
Now you're keeping
YOUR OWN KIND in #$&*@!.
When your Great Wall rocks, blame yourself
While their arms reach out for your help
And you're out of time."


            Guns N' Roses - Chinese Democracy
-Enola-
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« Reply #649 on: September 12, 2018, 08:41:14 AM »

- No Finer Blade: Let the Dwarves kill minions. No need to add damage +1 here.

- Burning Fir Cones: The text is short and easy to read. Or have you a similar text in 3 lines?

- Dark Sorcery: A previous version of the card had a first weak ability and the card was still very played in all the swarm Shadows. The card is very good most of the time (except vs Friend of Thorin).

- Thror: This card is probably one of the most tested card, I don't want to change it anymore. The card is one of the first picked card in each draft session we made.... and I still think the story can change, Thror could be alive even after his battle against Azog (like his son) and be a member of the Dwarven survivors but a depressed Thror....

- Ori's Slingshot: Ori is now a beast with TMOMK. He is better than Robin Smallburrow.

- Catapult Troll and Bridging Troll: Not necessary, these cards must be used only for theirs abilities.



==================


These pictures are a bit dark Sad.
« Last Edit: September 12, 2018, 08:43:44 AM by -Enola- » Logged

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« Reply #650 on: September 15, 2018, 04:54:19 PM »

Eager for Brawl will need to be Eager to Brawl. I guess you could also have Eager for a Brawl, but that sounds clunkier to me. Sorry if it sounds like I'm being picky.
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« Reply #651 on: September 16, 2018, 08:41:40 AM »

Thanks Dictionary, this correction seems necessary.

I haven't time to change the cards now, probably tomorrow.
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« Reply #652 on: September 17, 2018, 10:14:20 AM »

Card images are now updated!
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« Reply #653 on: September 17, 2018, 11:02:13 AM »

Just wanted to note, that your cards are really beautiful.
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« Reply #654 on: September 17, 2018, 01:29:15 PM »

Thanks! Smiley
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« Reply #655 on: June 09, 2019, 02:29:12 AM »

I'm back!  Oooooh yeah.

I will make some minor changes to buff some cards. All these changes will be updated in the first post. Feel free to comment Wink.
« Last Edit: June 09, 2019, 02:53:47 AM by -Enola- » Logged

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« Reply #656 on: July 19, 2019, 07:45:26 AM »

Card images!

http://hobbitdraftgame.free.fr/Last_Updates.html

Tell me what you think about these buffs!
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