Arwengard

[sgtdraino]

This is the deck I've gravitated towards after getting frustrated with my "Boromoria" deck. Suggestions are welcome:

Starting cards:
Ring-bearer: Frodo, Old Bilbo's Heir
Ring: The One Ring, Isildur's Bane
1x Arwen, Daughter of Elrond
1x Legolas, Greenleaf

Adventure deck:
Green Dragon Inn
Trollshaw Forest
House of Elrond
Hollin
The Bridge of Khazad-dum
Caras Galadhon
Anduin Wilderland
Gates of Argonath
Slopes of Amon Hen

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Gandalf, Friend of the Shirefolk
1x Aragorn, Ranger of the North
4x Boromir, Defender of Minas Tirith
1x Sam, Son of Hamfast
1x Grimir, Dwarven Elder
1x Thrarin, Dwarven Smith
3x Elrond, Lord of Rivendell
1x Albert Dreary, Entertainer From Bree
1x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
1x Erland, Advisor to Brand
1x Ottar, Man of Laketown
1x Bounder
1x Asfaloth
3x Gwemegil
2x Armor
1x Blade of Gondor
2x Flaming Brand
2x Horn of Boromir
2x Sting
4x Foul Creation
4x A Wizard Is Never Late
2x Deep in Thought
2x Hobbit Intuition
4x Hobbit Stealth
2x Shoulder to Shoulder

Shadow Draw Deck:
4x Lurtz, Servant of Isengard
4x Saruman, Keeper of Isengard
4x Troop of Uruk-hai
4x Uruk Captain
4x Uruk Ravager
4x Goblin Runner
1x Goblin Scrabbler
1x Goblin Warrior
1x The Balrog, Durin's Bane
1x Tower Assassin
1x Úlairë Cantëa, Lieutenant of Dol Guldur
1x Úlairë Enquëa, Lieutenant of Morgul
1x The Palantir of Orthanc
3x Beyond the Height of Men
3x Bred for Battle
3x Saruman's Power
4x Savagery to Match Their Numbers
2x Such a Little Thing
4x They Are Coming

The objective, of course, is to find a deck that is pretty good against everything. Here we have Arwen, Daughter of Elrond and Flaming Brand x2 vs Nazgul, Armor x2 and Foul Creation x4 vs Uruk-hai, and quite a bit of condition removal vs. Moria and Sauron.

This deck is pretty large (100 cards), so it is geared towards cycling. Gwemegil x3, Elrond, Lord of Rivendell x3, Ottar, Man of Laketown, They are Coming x4, Foul creation x4, all serve to draw cards, and ditch cards you  don't need. cycles pretty well.

Bid 3 or 4 to go first, pull Sam, and take 3 off. Sam is then mostly expendable. The main objective here is to have the advantage of going first, and deprive your opponent of a more useful site 1 (probably The Prancing Pony). Many decks, especially choke decks, will depend on using The Prancing Pony to get out Aragorn. They'll be slowed down without him. If somehow you don't start first, and your opponent does start The Prancing Pony, I suggest you DON'T use it to pull Aragorn. Just wait and draw Aragorn later in the game, for the final push.

The FP strategy will depend on what Shadow your opponent is using. If that Shadow is Uruk-hai, do not under any circumstances exceed 4 companions out at a time. This deck is designed for you to kill off guys as you move, to be replaced with other guys. Sam, Legolas, and Aragorn are all expendable (in that order). Arwen, Boromir, and Gandalf are the ones you want to keep if possible (and Frodo, of course). Vs. Uruk-hai, you'll concentrate on filtering Saruman, Keeper of Isengard out of their hand with Foul Creation x4. With only 4 guys and no Saruman, Uruk-hai will be at a disadvantage. If possible, try to use Sting to look at their hand first so you don't waste a Foul Creation when they don't have Saruman. Use A Wizard is Never Late to get Albert Dreary, Entertainer from Bree to take out a couple of problem conditions until you can get Deep in Thought going. Shoulder to Shoulder should help you ensure enough twilight to use Deep in Thought. Boromir with Armor can absorb hits, Arwen can beat a guy, and Horn of Boromir can call out the Allies to fight.

If he's not playing Uruk-hai, then 5 companions out at a time is acceptable.

Vs. Nazgul You'll concentrate on tanking up Arwen and getting your 2x Flaming Brand out on some Gondor guys, as well as cycling until you get to some condition removal for Blade Tip and Black Breath. Horn of Boromir and Allies can really help too.

Vs. Moria you're again concentrating on condition removal. Grab Albert Dreary to get you started, then dig for those Deep in Thought. Sting helps too.

Vs. Sauron, again it's mostly an issue of ditching conditions. Discard will be at a natural disadvantage against you, because you are running a large deck. Thanks to Shoulder to Shoulder, Elrond, Lord of Rivendell, and your two Dwarf Allies, you can potentially take 3 wounds off your Elf companions per turn, in addition to Boromir's built-in healing.

Frodo should be pretty hard to overwhelm thanks to Sting, Bounder, and 6 Stealth events. Erland, Adviser to Brand is mostly there to counter The Palantir of Orthanc.

The Shadow side is mostly Uruk-hai, and is pretty self-explanatory. Saruman's Power to bomb out conditions. 4x They Are Coming to help you cycle, add twilight (Goblin Runner), and/or discard conditions and allies (Goblin Scrabbler, Goblin Warrior). Free Peoples really need Armor to be effective against Uruk-hai, so 3x Beyond the Height of Men helps counter that. Many decks run Boromir, so 2x Such a Little Thing is your best shot to either kill a vital character, or ditch some good possessions.

This is a rare case in which you will often play the cheap version of The Balrog, Durin's Bane at The Bridge of Khazad-dum, after cycling a bit with They are Coming and Goblin Runner to pump even more twilight in. There's a fair chance he won't have Armor (because you got rid of it), you get to skip the Archery phase, and with cheap Balrog only costing 6 twilight, he'll probably be loathe to move again and get blitzed with Uruk-hai.

Speaking of FP Archery, The Balrog, Durin's Bane is one of several counters this Shadow has to that. Saruman, Keeper of Isengard is the obvious other, but so is Anduin Wilderland

If all else fails, try to set up a big bomb at Site 9.

Thoughts? Suggestions?

[Ringbearer]

First of all, I find the deck overly massive. Even moria decks with the best filter stay at 40/40 max.

Also, I'd play more Gorn and Gandalf and a few less AWINL. AWINL is a dead card pretty quickly in your deck while multiple Gandalfs can still heal.
Your condition removal is subpar. Only 2 cards in a 100 card deck just isnt gonna cut it. This means Sauron grind and nazgul will hurt you... also the 2 decks which use a lot of pool and dont leave any over to deep in thought with.

[sgtdraino]

First of all, I find the deck overly massive. Even moria decks with the best filter stay at 40/40 max.

Like I said, I personally prefer large decks because they offer more options, and are not vulnerable to discard. Large decks can work just fine, so long as you have good cycling. In my experience, 40/40 gets blitzed by any serious discard deck. At this point, having tried Moria for a while, I don't think they have the best filter, or the best cycling. They're also very vulnerable to condition discard.

Also, I'd play more Gorn and Gandalf and a few less AWINL. AWINL is a dead card pretty quickly in your deck while multiple Gandalfs can still heal.

I used to play more Aragorn, and more early Aragorns. My experience was that a significant number of my opponents were making use of Can You Protect Me From Yourself, and Aragorn becomes a big vulnerable target early in the game. At the same time, playing Aragorn also often means starting The Prancing Pony. A lot of opponent's decks are quite dependent on Aragorn, so starting The Prancing Pony helps them out. In this deck, Aragorn is just a little helper at the end, that's all.

AWINL isn't a dead card, it can also grab one of the four Allies I use, depending on what I need. One of those Allies is part of my "subpar" condition removal. Those Allies assist with countering certain strategies, helping my deck in other ways, or even fighting in conjunction with Horn of Boromir.

Your condition removal is subpar. Only 2 cards in a 100 card deck just isnt gonna cut it. This means Sauron grind and nazgul will hurt you... also the 2 decks which use a lot of pool and dont leave any over to deep in thought with.

As I mentioned earlier, I can generate the pool I need for Deep In Thought with Shoulder to Shoulder. To date I haven't had any problems vs. Sauron. Nazgul can be tough, but often times I can straight up beat them in a fight. Black Breath only matters if you're actually taking hits. The Allies are often-times expendable during the course of the game, so if I really don't want a Blade Tip or a Black Breath on somebody important, I'll just make an Ally fight. Or I'll sacrifice one of my expendable companions. Or I'll cancel the skirmish with a Stealth. All of which boils down to the fact that it's generally going to take a while for Nazgul conditions to have much effect on me, and by that time I can usually get my hands on Deep in Thought. However, all that said, I could potentially see my way to putting a 3rd Deep In Thought in. We'll see.

Thanks for the comments. Keep 'em coming!

[ramolnar]

You're trying to play a Expanded deck in Fellowship block, but Fellowship block requires a consistent deck not a bullet deck. Let me explain.

Some LotR formats are based around highly powered cards (which we debate about being OP / broken). Movie Block is most obvious - Galadriel Lady Redeemed completely shifts the format. In Expanded, if you can't deal with Madril you might as well not play. Towers Standard has Legolas Dauntless Hunter. In this type of format, you want to play the "broken" cards - and use bullets and toolbox cards to protect the game winning effect.

Other formats reward consistent fellowships, where you don't get attached to anyone. Winning is about getting stable performance, exploiting lots of little advantages. Towers Block is most obvious here. In my top Towers Block deck, which has a 64-7 record and advanced at Worlds 2003, the most important cards are stealths and Sam. It bids to go first and then freely sacrifices Hobbits and Ents. Often I even kill Frodo to remove burdens.

I build and play consistent fellowships, but I don't play silver bullet fellowships well. My two favorite Expanded decks are Smeagol-Faramir and Gondor+Orophin, where the most powerful cards are Follow Smeagol and Namarie. Those are not overpowered, and thus I have Tier 2 decks.

Fellowship Block is a consistent-fellowship format because there are no game-winning highly powered cards. You're trying to play a silver bullet deck, with 100 cards - 2 Shoulder to Shoulder that rely on 2 Dwarf Allies - 2 Deep in Thought - 2 Horn of Boromir - 1 Goblin Warrior - 1 Goblin Scrabbler. And you're trying to find key cards like in Expanded. Expanded has lots of search cards; Fellowship block has only AWINL (which you're using heavily) and you're cycling with They Are Coming. You'll likely win about 75% of casual games, because there are lots of not-so-good casual decks and you'll get the right solutions plenty of times. Against a tournament of quality consistent decks, you'll fall apart once or twice, while other decks won't.

The best part about this deck is your opening bid. Because there are no overpowered Shadow cards, it's difficult to kill even pretty good fellowships. It's also difficult to double from behind, because it's hard to double through the second sanctuary and there are many late shadow-friendly sites (Anduin Confluence, Anduin Wilderland, Shores of Nen Hithoel). Or one can drop just a Keeper and threaten 4 fierce archery-protected Uruks on a double move.

Anyway ... if you still want to play this deck, here are a few things to think about.
* What happens if someone bids 5 to go first and denies you Sam? Plenty of decks bid 5 and start Sam. Hobbits can also do so easily.
* What do you do when you lose Shoulder to Shoulder to Saurman's Power? (My Uruk deck plays 3.)
* What do you do against Moria-Isengard Warrior swarm that drops 8 minions?
* Why isn't Filibert in this deck? Filibert wins games against Keeper.

[sgtdraino]

Fellowship Block is a consistent-fellowship format because there are no game-winning highly powered cards.

Oh really? No Goblin Armories? No Saruman, Keeper of Isengard? No Savagery to Match Their Numbers? No Frying Pan? No Aragorn, Heir to the White City? I could go on, and on, and on, because you know as well as I do that a large portion of cards found on most X-lists are indeed found in Fellowship Block.

My biggest complaint about Fellowship Block has always been that it lacks variety. I get the feeling that this is what you are referring to as "consistency." When I play it, I tend to see basically the same half-dozen or so decks over and over again, using the same cards that everyone else uses, which in large part are indeed highly-powered cards which are X-listed in other formats.

You're trying to play a silver bullet deck, with 100 cards - 2 Shoulder to Shoulder that rely on 2 Dwarf Allies - 2 Deep in Thought - 2 Horn of Boromir - 1 Goblin Warrior - 1 Goblin Scrabbler.

Yup. And it's all possible, thanks to fast cycling.

And you're trying to find key cards like in Expanded. Expanded has lots of search cards; Fellowship block has only AWINL (which you're using heavily) and you're cycling with They Are Coming.

In point of fact, most of my key cards I'm NOT trying to find like in Expanded, precisely because there are few search cards in Fellowship Block. Of course I'm using AWINL, because it's a big deck, and the card enables me to pull key Allies quickly, as you've pointed out. I'm not sure what your point is. I find it interesting that Ringbearer thought AWINL was a dead card in my deck, whereas you think I'm using it heavily.

You'll likely win about 75% of casual games, because there are lots of not-so-good casual decks and you'll get the right solutions plenty of times. Against a tournament of quality consistent decks, you'll fall apart once or twice, while other decks won't.

Maybe, maybe not. Unless you're arguing that Fellowship is a broken format, then no deck is perfect, no deck is unbeatable, and every deck is going to fail once in a while. I played a tournament today, and was undefeated. Is that always going to happen? Of course not. My deck isn't perfect, it will fail once in a while, and I'm sure there's room for improvement.

The best part about this deck is your opening bid. Because there are no overpowered Shadow cards, it's difficult to kill even pretty good fellowships.

<ahem> X-list. There are plenty of overpowered Shadow cards in Fellowship Block.

It's also difficult to double from behind, because it's hard to double through the second sanctuary and there are many late shadow-friendly sites (Anduin Confluence, Anduin Wilderland, Shores of Nen Hithoel). Or one can drop just a Keeper and threaten 4 fierce archery-protected Uruks on a double move.

And Saruman, Keeper of Isengard is precisely one of those cards.

Anyway ... if you still want to play this deck, here are a few things to think about.

This is what I really want. I don't need naysayers saying, "This deck won't work." "This deck is too big," etc. What I can use is specific suggestions on how this deck might be improved, not changed into some other deck that I see every day.

* What happens if someone bids 5 to go first and denies you Sam? Plenty of decks bid 5 and start Sam. Hobbits can also do so easily.

So far, in all my games, I don't think I've run into anyone bidding 5. I have occasionally run into someone bidding 4. Most of the time 3 is sufficient. If it begins to seem like that isn't sufficient, then I'll just start bidding more. I can usually keep Sam alive long enough to take off a few more burdens, if I have to. To answer your question, I don't think it's a huge deal. I put that Site 1 in there initially because there wasn't really any Site 1 that I really needed. So, I'll just have to play catchup, and maybe concentrate a little more on setting up for a Shadow kill.

* What do you do when you lose Shoulder to Shoulder to Saurman's Power? (My Uruk deck plays 3.)

If you're playing a lot of Saruman's Power, then you aren't depending on Shadow conditions. More than anything else, Shoulder to Shoulder is there to help me use Deep in Thought. If you aren't playing Shadow conditions, then I don't really need Deep in Thought, and therefore don't really need Shoulder to Shoulder.

On a side note, I do find that's the one aspect that doesn't get pulled off as often as I'd like. I might be inclined to take out the 2x Shoulder to Shoulder and the Dwarf Allies, and replace them with something more effective. Either that, or add more of both.

* What do you do against Moria-Isengard Warrior swarm that drops 8 minions?

Moria generally can't do much to me. Not sure why you mentioned Isengard Warrior, I don't rely on Archery special abilities, Legolas is expendable.

* Why isn't Filibert in this deck? Filibert wins games against Keeper.

That's true, and I've been thinking about adding him. We'll see. The thing is, I've only got two hobbit companions: Sam probably won't be around long enough to use Filibert Bolger, and Frodo has often got exertions on him from using Sting. Frodo normally can't be overwhelmed, so Filibert or no Filibert, it's still two hits on Frodo. I think I prefer the 4x Foul Creation, which simply removes Saruman (or another biggy) from the equation, and draws me two more cards. Incidentally, I'd think Sting and Foul Creation could also wreak some havoc on that Moria/Isengard Warrior combo you're talking about. That's before we get into Albert Dreary territory.

Gold for you! Keep 'em coming!

[Durin's Heir]

Yup. And it's all possible, thanks to fast cycling.

Uruks + Goblins... What about Hate and Anger to cycle and set up even faster?

[ramolnar]

Fellowship Block is a consistent-fellowship format because there are no game-winning highly powered cards.

Oh really? No Goblin Armories? No Saruman, Keeper of Isengard? No Savagery to Match Their Numbers? No Frying Pan? No Aragorn, Heir to the White City? I could go on, and on, and on, because you know as well as I do that a large portion of cards found on most X-lists are indeed found in Fellowship Block.

My biggest complaint about Fellowship Block has always been that it lacks variety. I get the feeling that this is what you are referring to as "consistency." When I play it, I tend to see basically the same half-dozen or so decks over and over again, using the same cards that everyone else uses, which in large part are indeed highly-powered cards which are X-listed in other formats.

Yes, that is consistency. In a 600 card pool, including stuff like The Weight of a Legacy, there aren't a ton of deck options.

There are plenty of cards above the power curve in Fellowship Block, but I wrote "game-winning highly powered cards" for a reason. None of the cards you wrote about render strategies dead by their very existence, and you don't have to play silver bullets to win. Madril does. GLR does.

Goodness, Goblin Armory isn't X-listed in any format! Heir to the White City isn't the most popular Aragorn in Fellowship Block! Savagery is overpowered - I think the +4 should not carry over to the fierce skirmish - but doesn't win a game by itself. Frying Pan and Keeper are closer to game-winning cards. There's a reason almost the entire Top 16 at 2002 Worlds played Keeper decks. But I don't think they shut down strategies in the way that Madril and GLR do.

And you're trying to find key cards like in Expanded. Expanded has lots of search cards; Fellowship block has only AWINL (which you're using heavily) and you're cycling with They Are Coming.

In point of fact, most of my key cards I'm NOT trying to find like in Expanded, precisely because there are few search cards in Fellowship Block. Of course I'm using AWINL, because it's a big deck, and the card enables me to pull key Allies quickly, as you've pointed out. I'm not sure what your point is. I find it interesting that Ringbearer thought AWINL was a dead card in my deck, whereas you think I'm using it heavily.

Well, I'm right here, since all your condition removal relies on getting your one Gandalf into play. I'm scared of discard decks and would play at least two. I'd also rather play Sleep Caradhras since your only condition is Shoulder to Shoulder. I want to clean out stuff in Fellowship phase. Removing Grimir and Shoulder to Shoulder will give you space for better cards, like Filibert, or another Bounder, or Defiance.

* What do you do against Moria-Isengard Warrior swarm that drops 8 minions?

Moria generally can't do much to me. Not sure why you mentioned Isengard Warrior, I don't rely on Archery special abilities, Legolas is expendable.

I mean "stupid swarm", which plays lots of minions. Here's a sample decklist to think about. It routinely puts out seven to nine minions.

2x Isengard Forger
2x Isengard Shaman
4x Isengard Warrior
4x Goblin Runner
4x Goblin Scavengers
1x Goblin Warrior
4x Moria Scout
1x The Balrog, Flame of Udun
2x Úlairë Enquëa, Lieutenant of Morgul
2x Úlairë Nertëa, Messenger of Dol Guldur
4x Goblin Scimitar
2x Saruman's Power
4x Host of Thousands
1x Unfamiliar Territory
2x They Are Coming

[sgtdraino]

Uruks + Goblins... What about Hate and Anger to cycle and set up even faster?

I thought about that, but Uruks tend to be twilight hogs, and Hate and Anger costs 2. At one point I was already using Abandoning Reason for Madness to do the same thing for 1 twilight, but found I really wasn't using it enough to warrant its presence in the deck. It seemed like using the event to draw more cards might get me more cards, but I wouldn't have enough twilight left to do much with them.

Yes, that is consistency. In a 600 card pool, including stuff like The Weight of a Legacy, there aren't a ton of deck options.

And I tend to have a real aversion to copying somebody else's deck.

There are plenty of cards above the power curve in Fellowship Block, but I wrote "game-winning highly powered cards" for a reason. None of the cards you wrote about render strategies dead by their very existence, and you don't have to play silver bullets to win. Madril does. GLR does.

I dunno, I think lots of strategies are rendered dead in Fellowship Block because of the state of the meta in that Block. That's precisely why there is so little variety. In contrast, it's difficult for me to think of any strategies in Expanded that are rendered "dead" by the existence of a certain card, Madril included. That is in large part thanks to silver bullets.

You don't have to play silver bullets to win Fellowship? Try playing with no condition removal, no armor, no Sting, etc. There's a reason why so many of the fellowships look the same, use the same cards: Because those are the silver bullets you need to win.

Goodness, Goblin Armory isn't X-listed in any format!

It still tends to be a game-winning card for Moria, without which they lose.

Heir to the White City isn't the most popular Aragorn in Fellowship Block!

I see him just as much as I see Ranger of the North.

Savagery is overpowered - I think the +4 should not carry over to the fierce skirmish - but doesn't win a game by itself.

No card "wins the game by itself." Not even GLR.

Frying Pan and Keeper are closer to game-winning cards. There's a reason almost the entire Top 16 at 2002 Worlds played Keeper decks.

Yup! Exactly that.

But I don't think they shut down strategies in the way that Madril and GLR do.

GLR does shut down strategies. For Madril there is an easy one-card counter with no culture enforcement that can go in any deck that feels Madril is a threat. The same cannot be said for Saruman, Keeper of Isengard or Savagery to Match Their Numbers. From what I've seen, Savagery has effectively shut down the strategy of having more than 4 companions when going against Uruk-hai. And the Fellowship meta in general has shut down the strategy of having more than 5 companions, due to the many cards that trigger once 6 companions are on the table.

Well, I'm right here, since all your condition removal relies on getting your one Gandalf into play.

All FP mass-condition removal relies on getting Gandalf into play. I've tried the Secret Sentinels route, for me it was not effective enough.

I'm scared of discard decks and would play at least two.

I can only say that, so far, I've never had trouble getting Gandalf out early enough to be effective.

I'd also rather play Sleep Caradhras since your only condition is Shoulder to Shoulder. I want to clean out stuff in Fellowship phase. Removing Grimir and Shoulder to Shoulder will give you space for better cards, like Filibert, or another Bounder, or Defiance.

I was actually originally using Sleep for exactly that reason, but ultimately switched. Sleep is a lot of twilight fuel for minions, and it also puts a hit on Gandalf. Because it only works in Fellowship, you are vulnerable to any conditions the opponent plays that following Shadow phase. With Deep in Thought you can nail those too, and/or use it on a double move.

A better strategy might actually be replacing Legolas with Gimli, then I'll have a Dwarf and Elf right off the bat, and Gandalf will be stronger.

I mean "stupid swarm", which plays lots of minions. Here's a sample decklist to think about. It routinely puts out seven to nine minions.

In my experience, Moria is severely crippled without their conditions, especially Goblin Armory.

[Durin's Heir]

Uruks + Goblins... What about Hate and Anger to cycle and set up even faster?

I thought about that, but Uruks tend to be twilight hogs, and Hate and Anger costs 2. At one point I was already using Abandoning Reason for Madness to do the same thing for 1 twilight, but found I really wasn't using it enough to warrant its presence in the deck. It seemed like using the event to draw more cards might get me more cards, but I wouldn't have enough twilight left to do much with them.

Hate and Anger and Abandoning Reason for Madness are very different things if you base your Moria side on They Are Coming + Goblin Runner. As happens here. I know it costs 2, but drawing 3 cards allows for smarter choices to ditch 3 again in order to play a Goblin Runner, then the cost is 1 too like ARfM but your hand is much better assembled. ARfM is often used to ditch/draw only 1 o 2 cards, given the lack of information about what's in the top of your draw deck.

A problem I see with your use of TAC is though you have 4 copies of it, you have only 6 Goblins. Goblin Scrabbler is always useful to ditch hateful things like Last Alliance, White Arrows, the Tale of Gil-Galad, Far Seeing Eyes... and Shoulder to Shoulder.

With 2 more Goblins you will have a much earlier use/abuse of TAC (and HaA), and along with HaA your deck will just fly. I had a TS + archery deck based on that (and Saruman's Ambition), and worked wonderfully...

I was actually originally using Sleep for exactly that reason, but ultimately switched. Sleep is a lot of twilight fuel for minions, and it also puts a hit on Gandalf. Because it only works in Fellowship, you are vulnerable to any conditions the opponent plays that following Shadow phase. With Deep in Thought you can nail those too, and/or use it on a double move.

Lame Black Breath/ Blade Tip decks love the absense of Deep in Thought. Against UtWE and Goblin Armory, Sleep Caradhras is much better... I'd keep those 2x DiT but add 1x Sleep. 3 cards in a 100 cards deck is, well, 50% more chances of pulling one.

I play a deck of 82 total cards, with Moria Beatdown abusing of TAC and Scimitar on one side, and Book of Mazarbul + Grey Pilgrim drawing 4 per turn on the other. And before adding the 3rd Sleep Caradhras it still lost many bad luck games against Sauron Grind and GotDC Nazzies.

A better strategy might actually be replacing Legolas with Gimli, then I'll have a Dwarf and Elf right off the bat, and Gandalf will be stronger.

That sounds like a good idea. You might even play Durin's Secret. Just balance the need of directed archery versus stronger use of StS. Gimli works wonders when well equipped, but that would shift too much your deck goals here...

[sgtdraino]

With 2 more Goblins you will have a much earlier use/abuse of TAC (and HaA), and along with HaA your deck will just fly. I had a TS + archery deck based on that (and Saruman's Ambition), and worked wonderfully...

You may be on to something. But if I add two more goblins, and presumably several copies of HaA, what do you suggest I take out? I'm steering clear of Saruman's Ambition and other Shadow conditions besides They Are Coming, since I'm running heavy Saruman's Power.

Lame Black Breath/ Blade Tip decks love the absense of Deep in Thought. Against UtWE and Goblin Armory, Sleep Caradhras is much better... I'd keep those 2x DiT but add 1x Sleep. 3 cards in a 100 cards deck is, well, 50% more chances of pulling one.

That's actually what I ended up doing with the latest build: Kept the two DiT, added one Sleep.

That sounds like a good idea. You might even play Durin's Secret. Just balance the need of directed archery versus stronger use of StS. Gimli works wonders when well equipped, but that would shift too much your deck goals here...

So far I'm liking Gimli better than Legolas. I don't really plan to equip him, he's mostly just a meat shield. Most of the time it seems like I'm either facing Uruk-hai, and need to keep my Fellowship down to four companions, or I'm facing Nazgul, which Gimli is not very strong against. My key companions still tend to be Arwen, Boromir, Gandalf, and (of course) Frodo, with Aragorn coming in near the end. Sam, Gimli, and (ultimately) Aragorn or expendable.

[Durin's Heir]

I'm starting to think one of your stronger threats will be conditionless Hobbit Hospital. With Boromir SoD or Gandalf. You can replace your Site 7 with Silverlode Banks. I know the chances of using it are low, but you seem to be strong enough against FP archery. And it won't backfire.

You may be on to something. But if I add two more goblins, and presumably several copies of HaA, what do you suggest I take out? I'm steering clear of Saruman's Ambition and other Shadow conditions besides They Are Coming, since I'm running heavy Saruman's Power.

Yes, Saruman's Ambition doesn't belong here. But won't be necessary as HaA can have, more or less, the same function and cost (with TAC and Goblin Runner) than ARfM: and draw 3 to discard 3 (except your decision will be smarter and you will have a small minion for free). What can you remove? I really don't know.

The mere inclusion of 2 additional goblinses will make your TAC-Cycle-Machine start earlier, and that's huge I think. If you manage to free more than 2 slots, then add copies of HaA...

- 2x Such A Little Thing is good in theory, but in practical situations your opponent will have plenty of things to discard at the time you pull it. 2 in 100 is too low a chance. Though Boromir is often tough, KoI + 7 pumps make your Shadow tougher than his tricks: enough to kill pumped hobbitses, exhaust LoG and kill fighting allies (even Elrond).
- 1x Cantea is the same here: if you splash 1x your opponent will just assign him to either an expendable guy or an unarmed one. Won't scare nor overwhelm often without Black Breath, Blade Tip, Nazgul Blade or Black Steed. Against weapons you already have Troop of Uruk-Hai, and TLAoEaM is often worse than a weapon (Scrabbler or Power).
- 4x Lurtz might be unnecessary. I'd remove 1 as he's really expensive, you can replay him with Uruk Captain.
- Perhaps 4x Uruk Captain is too much. I think it will be so against choking FPs. -1.

I can't propose anything else by now. 5 slots = 2 Goblins + 3 HaA. = Much greater cycling. Give it a try and then judge.

That's actually what I ended up doing with the latest build: Kept the two DiT, added one Sleep.

So far I'm liking Gimli better than Legolas. I don't really plan to equip him, he's mostly just a meat shield.

A better strategy might actually be replacing Legolas with Gimli... and Gandalf will be stronger.

House of Elrond will be useless often, replace it with Rivendell Terrace to draw faster with that plenty of men cards you have (5 + 4 ).

If Gimli is going to be a kamikaze, then you can use Disquiet of Our People! With Thrarin + Shoulder to Shoulder is even greater. I used once that combo against a paled guy who pulled his best swarm at 5 with Balrog and Cave Troll included...

What Gimli are you going to use? All seem helpful here: DoE helps with cycling, SoG survives better and DotMR chokes. SoG + StS + Elrond is a good combo actually.

Gandalf will be stronger, at least for a while. You might use Wizard Staff to make him even stronger, and use his vitality as a pump in emergency cases (I can't recall the huge number of times it has saved me).

[sgtdraino]

I'm starting to think one of your stronger threats will be conditionless Hobbit Hospital. With Boromir SoD or Gandalf. You can replace your Site 7 with Silverlode Banks. I know the chances of using it are low, but you seem to be strong enough against FP archery. And it won't backfire.

Anduin Wilderland doesn't backfire either, since Legolas is almost never around by then. Silverlode Banks is tempting, but I feel like it's exceedingly rare that I'll be up against a fellowship with no ranger when they hit Site 7. Still, I might test it out. Conversely, I can think of multiple times when I've been glad to skip the Archery Phase at Site 7, either because he's got Greenleaf and Aragorn's Bow complete with The Saga of Elendil and The Tale of Gil-galad, and can shoot the crap out of my minions KoI or no KoI... or occasionally because he's running Moria swarm archery, and I'm happy that his minions can't shoot at my guys either.

Yes, Saruman's Ambition doesn't belong here. But won't be necessary as HaA can have, more or less, the same function and cost (with TAC and Goblin Runner) than ARfM: and draw 3 to discard 3 (except your decision will be smarter and you will have a small minion for free). What can you remove? I really don't know.

The mere inclusion of 2 additional goblinses will make your TAC-Cycle-Machine start earlier, and that's huge I think. If you manage to free more than 2 slots, then add copies of HaA...

Maaaaaybe. I've tested a version with 3x HaA, but still the same number of minions (6), and I wasn't really all that thrilled with it. Note that even if you add more minions, you still can't have more than 4x Goblin Runner, so your chances of getting a setup where he can reduce the cost of HaA by adding twilight in, doesn't really improve by adding more Moria minions. On the contrary, if you haven't drawn Goblin Runner yet, then it's going to cost you +1 twilight to play some other guy from discard, on top of the 2 you'll pay for HaA.

- 2x Such A Little Thing is good in theory, but in practical situations your opponent will have plenty of things to discard at the time you pull it. 2 in 100 is too low a chance. Though Boromir is often tough, KoI + 7 pumps make your Shadow tougher than his tricks: enough to kill pumped hobbitses, exhaust LoG and kill fighting allies (even Elrond).

It's okay with me if he discards other things to keep Boromir. From my experiences so far, sometimes I manage to kill Boromir, other times I still make him get rid of useful possessions. About the only times it doesn't feel very effective, is if he's running a pipeweed deck.

- 1x Cantea is the same here: if you splash 1x your opponent will just assign him to either an expendable guy or an unarmed one. Won't scare nor overwhelm often without Black Breath, Blade Tip, Nazgul Blade or Black Steed. Against weapons you already have Troop of Uruk-Hai, and TLAoEaM is often worse than a weapon (Scrabbler or Power).
- 4x Lurtz might be unnecessary. I'd remove 1 as he's really expensive, you can replay him with Uruk Captain.
- Perhaps 4x Uruk Captain is too much. I think it will be so against choking FPs. -1.

Cantea is out. More on this in a minute. Interesting thoughts on Lurtz and Uruk Captain, you may be on to something there. Maybe 3x of each? Who would go in instead?

I can't propose anything else by now. 5 slots = 2 Goblins + 3 HaA. = Much greater cycling. Give it a try and then judge.

I'll try a version with this, and let you know how it goes.

House of Elrond will be useless often, replace it with Rivendell Terrace to draw faster with that plenty of men cards you have (5 + 4 ).

In my experience, I rarely have Boromir or Aragorn exactly on Site 3, I get then either before or after. House of Elrond is helping me out more now, because I can bid 4 instead of 3. Pull Sam, take off 3, kill off Sam, take off the last burden when I move to House of Elrond. I feel like 4 is generally enough to guarantee I go first 95% of the time.

If Gimli is going to be a kamikaze, then you can use Disquiet of Our People! With Thrarin + Shoulder to Shoulder is even greater. I used once that combo against a paled guy who pulled his best swarm at 5 with Balrog and Cave Troll included...

What Gimli are you going to use? All seem helpful here: DoE helps with cycling, SoG survives better and DotMR chokes. SoG + StS + Elrond is a good combo actually.

As a matter of fact, Gimli is now back out, and Legolas is back in. Shoulder to Shoulder is out too. More on this in a minute.

Gandalf will be stronger, at least for a while. You might use Wizard Staff to make him even stronger, and use his vitality as a pump in emergency cases (I can't recall the huge number of times it has saved me).

I'd probably be more inclined to add Trust Me As You Once Did, before a Wizard Staff.

Okay, here's the latest version with 3x HaA. Technically I'm tweeking an even newer version, but this is the version with the most Orcs and the most copies of HaA:

Starting cards:
Ring-bearer: Frodo, Old Bilbo's Heir
Ring: The One Ring, Isildur's Bane
1x Arwen, Daughter of Elrond
1x Legolas, Greenleaf

Adventure deck:
Green Dragon Inn
Trollshaw Forest
House of Elrond
Hollin
The Bridge of Khazad-dum
Caras Galadhon
Anduin Wilderland
Gates of Argonath
Slopes of Amon Hen

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Gandalf, Friend of the Shirefolk
1x Aragorn, Ranger of the North
4x Boromir, Defender of Minas Tirith
1x Sam, Son of Hamfast
3x Elrond, Lord of Rivendell
1x Albert Dreary, Entertainer From Bree
1x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
1x Erland, Advisor to Brand
1x Ottar, Man of Laketown
1x Bounder
2x Asfaloth
3x Gwemegil
2x Armor
1x Athelas
1x Blade of Gondor
2x Flaming Brand
2x Horn of Boromir
2x Sting
4x Foul Creation
4x A Wizard Is Never Late
1x Deep in Thought
2x Sleep Caradhras
2x Might of Numenor
2x Hobbit Intuition
4x Hobbit Stealth

Shadow Draw Deck:
4x Lurtz, Servant of Isengard
4x Saruman, Keeper of Isengard
4x Troop of Uruk-hai
4x Uruk Captain
4x Uruk Raider
4x Goblin Runner
1x Goblin Scrabbler
1x Goblin Warrior
1x The Balrog, Durin's Bane
4x Tower Assassin
2x Beyond the Height of Men
2x Hate and Anger
3x Saruman's Power
4x Savagery to Match Their Numbers
3x Wariness
2x Such a Little Thing
4x They Are Coming

Some big changes with this build.

I removed Shotgun Enquea and Ulaire Enquea. I decided that most Fellowships probably aren't going to try to run 6 guys against Uruk-hai.

One of the biggest changes, which I feel may be revolutionary, is replacing Uruk Ravager with Uruk Raider, and a full complement of 4x Tower Assassin. It seems like essentially EVERY Fellowship Block deck runs Allies, so this gives me a cheap fierce strength 9 Uruk with or without KoI. I really feel like this has legs.

Took out Palantir of Orthanc, I think it's better that I save that twilight up to play guys, rather that ditch his hand.

Took out 1 Beyond the Height of Men, after realizing you can't get rid of Mithril-coat with it. Kept 2 copies, since getting rid of Armor is pretty important to winning with Uruks. This way hopefully there will be less chance I'll draw it before they get some Armor out for me to ditch.

Added 3x Wariness. I feel like there's a big tendency in the meta to really depend on those Hobbit stealth events. If I can cancel one unexpectedly, it may mean a surprise death.

Bred For Battle is out of this version, but I've already added it back into a later version.

All Dwarfs are out, Shoulder to Shoulder is out, we're once again back to having no FP conditions, so I've shifted the balance back over to 2x Sleep, Caradhras and 1x Deep in Thought. I may go full-on Sleep, too often I find myself unable to play DiT, especially with Shoulder to Shoulder out.

Added a 2nd Asfaloth, for early Arwen strength. Added Athelas for healing and better counter-Nazgulery.

Experimented with 2x Might of Numenor with this version, but it's back out for later versions. Backfires too often.

At this point, I'm seriously thinking about taking out entirely.

[ramolnar]

You're starting to realize why people run "the same decks", I think. Fellowship Block has been worn over. King Block still has ideas. Hunters Block I have no clue. Fellowship - mostly tried. Come visit the world of 33 card sides!

I've run 3 Tower Assassin and Uruk Raider before, so it's not revolutionary. Uruk Raider is the best 2 cost Uruk in my eyes and isn't terrible at 6/2 for 2. And I like Wariness. Since you like experimenting, and you're running big minions, why not try Lurtz's Battle Cry? I still don't see when you want to play the Balrog over dumping Uruks out your hand.

[dmaz]

The amount of options you have for cycling in both FP AND Shadow is very substantial. I'd say the typical "large" deck runs around 80 for FotR, but just looking at the sheer amount of cycling you have, I'd say you could get 100 cards to function in relatively the same capacity as an 80 card deck.

What is good about it is that once you know what strategy your opponent is playing you can start dumping the cards you don't need by the handful to get to your magic bullet cards almost as fast as a normal deck.

It is also nice having to immediately not worry about discard as well In fact you'd probably be happy if they are playing discard as it would more than likely help you cycle, while you run.

From a cost-benefit standpoint, I'm wondering if x2 Such a little thing is going to give you bang for your buck. In a deck that just runs the good Boromir (healing) as a splash, you might be able to take him down with just one...but every time its been done against me there's always been 2 possessions I can dump. And a horn deck definitely has possessions to throw away. Not sure what would be a substitute if you went with something else...in any case SALT would at least slow them down perhaps. And it's pretty easy to play one once you draw it with TAC out

Cool deck Are you going to try for "Gandgul" next? hehe

[Durin's Heir]

You're starting to realize why people run "the same decks", I think. Fellowship Block has been worn over. King Block still has ideas. Hunters Block I have no clue. Fellowship - mostly tried. Come visit the world of 33 card sides!

I've run 3 Tower Assassin and Uruk Raider before, so it's not revolutionary. Uruk Raider is the best 2 cost Uruk in my eyes and isn't terrible at 6/2 for 2. And I like Wariness. Since you like experimenting, and you're running big minions, why not try Lurtz's Battle Cry? I still don't see when you want to play the Balrog over dumping Uruks out your hand.

I was thinking about Lurtz's Battle Cry too. It's such a great card once you dump the Armors/Gimli's helm.

I've found out in my deckbuilding experience, the FOTR Block has still so many unexplored options... There are some crazy strong ideas there, I'm working on a couple but won't post them until they are fully finished.

I play a deck with 41 cards per side, and works very good. Often wonderfully. There was nothing remotely close in the whole TLHH database, the design is totally mine: Conditionless Dwarves + Gandalf / Moria Axe Beatdown. They kill Balrogs and Cave Trolls and move on. With time I've identified some weak points and how to correct them, and I'm determined to change it from 'often wonderfully' to 'always'.

There are too many options waiting to be discovered in FOTR, the only impediments are lack of time and lack of imagination. Dreadlox (such a nice guy!) and I talked about it long months ago, and concluded we prefer to make a fun deck win than to try to find the funny side of a plain "winning" thing everyone plays since 2002. Man, that's even before I had facial hair...

[Durin's Heir]

Anduin Wilderland doesn't backfire either, since Legolas is almost never around by then. Silverlode Banks is tempting, but I feel like it's exceedingly rare that I'll be up against a fellowship with no ranger when they hit Site 7. Still, I might test it out. Conversely, I can think of multiple times when I've been glad to skip the Archery Phase at Site 7, either because he's got Greenleaf and Aragorn's Bow complete with The Saga of Elendil and The Tale of Gil-galad, and can shoot the crap out of my minions KoI or no KoI... or occasionally because he's running Moria swarm archery, and I'm happy that his minions can't shoot at my guys either.

Silverlode Banks is meant to batter on Dwarves and Hobbit Hospital. Hobbits rely on allies but you won't ditch them with Anduin Confluence.

With 7 pumps, or 4 pumps and several copies of Lurtz's Battle Cry (awesome with 2x or more Beyond the Height of Men), you might very well get rid of all rangers before site 7...

Maaaaaybe. I've tested a version with 3x HaA, but still the same number of minions (6), and I wasn't really all that thrilled with it. Note that even if you add more minions, you still can't have more than 4x Goblin Runner, so your chances of getting a setup where he can reduce the cost of HaA by adding twilight in, doesn't really improve by adding more Moria minions. On the contrary, if you haven't drawn Goblin Runner yet, then it's going to cost you +1 twilight to play some other guy from discard, on top of the 2 you'll pay for HaA.

The TAC-Cycling-Machine and HaA are meant to collaborate, but are indeed different things. More cheap Goblins will make the machine start earlier, only 6/100 is just too little. The HaA thing is merely nitrogenated fuel for the machine, you have to set up the cycling machine and then help it with HaA.

By the way, the sooner you get the TAC machine running, the sooner you will have a Goblin Runner in hand/discard pile. 6 goblins is too little for both HaA, and more importantly, TAC.

Try to have at least 8% goblins in a deck to start the cycling machine as early as you can. HaA is secondary to that. It was meant to help the cycling but not being the base of it.

I can't propose anything else by now. 5 slots = 2 Goblins + 3 HaA. = Much greater cycling. Give it a try and then judge.

I'll try a version with this, and let you know how it goes.

I'm waiting my fellow, but take your time! It will require many tests to determine if it's well directioned.

It's okay with me if he discards other things to keep Boromir. From my experiences so far, sometimes I manage to kill Boromir, other times I still make him get rid of useful possessions. About the only times it doesn't feel very effective, is if he's running a pipeweed deck.

Can ditch Athelas too. Or Armor. Or Flaming Brand. Such A Little Thing strikes the sooner the better, and you will need more copies of goblins to do so.

Cantea is out. More on this in a minute. Interesting thoughts on Lurtz and Uruk Captain, you may be on to something there. Maybe 3x of each? Who would go in instead?

Uruk Slayer might be a great idea. With KoI and 7 pumps (or 4 pumps + LBC again) can be really devastating. Moreover, you can bluff interestingly with an unexhausted Uruk Slayer and Keeper of Isengard protecting him (making opponent believe you have Bred for Battle), as far as the FP player doesn't look at your hand...

In my experience, I rarely have Boromir or Aragorn exactly on Site 3, I get then either before or after. House of Elrond is helping me out more now, because I can bid 4 instead of 3. Pull Sam, take off 3, kill off Sam, take off the last burden when I move to House of Elrond. I feel like 4 is generally enough to guarantee I go first 95% of the time.

Removing 4 burdens is great, that's right. I support House of Elrond as far as you start 2 elves. Anyway, Rivendell Terrace works with men too and you have 4 in the deck. I use that site with my 41/41 deck and have only 2 Breelanders to trigger it, nonetheless it's still useful. 4 men + 4 copies of Boromir, as Aragorn is reserved for the later game... you might give it a try.

I'd probably be more inclined to add Trust Me As You Once Did, before a Wizard Staff.

Wizard Staff doesn't get discarded by Sleep Caradhras or Saruman's Power. And is a surprise many won't expect, even seeing it on the board. With only elves and men, FotS is strength 9. With a Wizard Staff will fight better against Uruks, even Troop of Uruk-Hai.

Some big changes with this build.

I removed Shotgun Enquea and Ulaire Enquea. I decided that most Fellowships probably aren't going to try to run 6 guys against Uruk-hai.

Good point!

One of the biggest changes, which I feel may be revolutionary, is replacing Uruk Ravager with Uruk Raider, and a full complement of 4x Tower Assassin. It seems like essentially EVERY Fellowship Block deck runs Allies, so this gives me a cheap fierce strength 9 Uruk with or without KoI. I really feel like this has legs.

Pipeweed decks often don't play a single ally, and Elrond HtGG can stand by himself against a Tower Assassin. Against everything else Uruk Raider should work marvels. Hobbit Hospital gets splintered now, and that was a strong threat I think.

Took out 1 Beyond the Height of Men, after realizing you can't get rid of Mithril-coat with it. Kept 2 copies, since getting rid of Armor is pretty important to winning with Uruks. This way hopefully there will be less chance I'll draw it before they get some Armor out for me to ditch.

Again, try to incorporate some copies of Lurtz's Battle Cry. With Lurtz or a protected Uruk Slayer can turn a safe skirmish into a surprise killing. Another killer idea might be Lurtz's Sword!

Added 3x Wariness. I feel like there's a big tendency in the meta to really depend on those Hobbit stealth events. If I can cancel one unexpectedly, it may mean a surprise death.

That's other great trick they have to turn a safe skirmish into an instant death.

All Dwarfs are out, Shoulder to Shoulder is out, we're once again back to having no FP conditions, so I've shifted the balance back over to 2x Sleep, Caradhras and 1x Deep in Thought. I may go full-on Sleep, too often I find myself unable to play DiT, especially with Shoulder to Shoulder out.

Sweep the board with Sleep Caradhras, then clear the newcoming conditions (Black Breath, Blade Tip) with Secret Sentinels. 2x and 2x.

Added a 2nd Asfaloth, for early Arwen strength. Added Athelas for healing and better counter-Nazgulery.

Asfaloth is awesome at Hollin. As far as you have another copy for further sites. Galadriel (or any Galadhrim) can have it until Arwen reaches 6.

At this point, I'm seriously thinking about taking out entirely.

That's a possibility, but then try to incorporate 4x ARfM as you will need to cycle really fast. Goblin Man is an underrated card to add in that scenario...

[sgtdraino]

You're starting to realize why people run "the same decks", I think. Fellowship Block has been worn over.

That does seem generally true.

I've run 3 Tower Assassin and Uruk Raider before, so it's not revolutionary.

Well, it's not something I ever see, and I came up with it on my own, so that's good enough for me.

And I like Wariness. Since you like experimenting, and you're running big minions, why not try Lurtz's Battle Cry?

Maaaaybe. I kind of don't want to, because I see that a lot... but it can be very effective. I'll think about it.

I still don't see when you want to play the Balrog over dumping Uruks out your hand.

It all depends on the situation at hand. If he's running heavy Archery and I don't have a KoI ready, that Balrog can really put a crimp on things, and sometimes kill a guy, because most players don't expect the cheap Balrog. Heck, he costs less than Lurtz! Most of the time I can play him, and still have enough twilight leftover so that, if he doubles, Uruks are going to come out and kick arse. And The Balrog is just one card, if I have a great hand of and enough twilight to play it, then I'll just go ahead and play it. The Balrog is just an option that I can take or leave, depending on the situation.

The amount of options you have for cycling in both FP AND Shadow is very substantial. I'd say the typical "large" deck runs around 80 for FotR, but just looking at the sheer amount of cycling you have, I'd say you could get 100 cards to function in relatively the same capacity as an 80 card deck.

I think/hope so. I do normally still have quite a few cards at the end of the game... but then so does my Expanded deck, and it's still highly effective. Of course, that deck does have more "search" capability that this one.

What is good about it is that once you know what strategy your opponent is playing you can start dumping the cards you don't need by the handful to get to your magic bullet cards almost as fast as a normal deck.

It is also nice having to immediately not worry about discard as well In fact you'd probably be happy if they are playing discard as it would more than likely help you cycle, while you run.

That's the idea!

From a cost-benefit standpoint, I'm wondering if x2 Such a little thing is going to give you bang for your buck. In a deck that just runs the good Boromir (healing) as a splash, you might be able to take him down with just one...but every time its been done against me there's always been 2 possessions I can dump. And a horn deck definitely has possessions to throw away. Not sure what would be a substitute if you went with something else...in any case SALT would at least slow them down perhaps. And it's pretty easy to play one once you draw it with TAC out

As a matter of fact, Such a Little Thing is now OUT. More on this in a minute.

Cool deck Are you going to try for "Gandgul" next? hehe

Heh heh. Only if I decide "Arwengard" is a dead end.

I was thinking about Lurtz's Battle Cry too. It's such a great card once you dump the Armors/Gimli's helm.

I guess I'll have to try it then.

I've found out in my deckbuilding experience, the FOTR Block has still so many unexplored options... There are some crazy strong ideas there, I'm working on a couple but won't post them until they are fully finished.

Looking forward to seeing what you can come up with.

I play a deck with 41 cards per side, and works very good. Often wonderfully. There was nothing remotely close in the whole TLHH database, the design is totally mine: Conditionless Dwarves + Gandalf / Moria Axe Beatdown. They kill Balrogs and Cave Trolls and move on. With time I've identified some weak points and how to correct them, and I'm determined to change it from 'often wonderfully' to 'always'.

Cool. You should make a thread for it!

Silverlode Banks is meant to batter on Dwarves and Hobbit Hospital. Hobbits rely on allies but you won't ditch them with Anduin Confluence.

I just don't see Dwarfs or Hobbit Hospital very often. I feel like I have to plan for the stuff I'm more likely to have problems with.

With 7 pumps, or 4 pumps and several copies of Lurtz's Battle Cry (awesome with 2x or more Beyond the Height of Men), you might very well get rid of all rangers before site 7...

Then again I might not. I could also lose my own Rangers before site 7, that's happened too. There have been a few games where Arwen gets killed, and Aragorn and Boromir don't show themselves until late.

The TAC-Cycling-Machine and HaA are meant to collaborate, but are indeed different things. More cheap Goblins will make the machine start earlier, only 6/100 is just too little. The HaA thing is merely nitrogenated fuel for the machine, you have to set up the cycling machine and then help it with HaA.

More on this is a sec.

I'm waiting my fellow, but take your time! It will require many tests to determine if it's well directioned.

Granted I didn't test it a bunch, but I tried it a few times, and I didn't feel like it was working for me. It's the same thing I talked about before: It's just taking me too much twilight to set up. More Orcs doesn't necessarily get me Goblin Runner any faster, They Are Coming costs 3 all by itself, and until I get a Goblin Runner, in order to make use of the TAC HaA machine, I'll have to discard 3 cards from hand and use 3 twilight in order to draw 3 cards. I think I've found a better option. More on this in a minute.

btw, feel free to build a TAC/HaA version of my deck and see if you can make it work better!

Can ditch Athelas too. Or Armor. Or Flaming Brand. Such A Little Thing strikes the sooner the better, and you will need more copies of goblins to do so.

is now mostly out, and so is Such a Little Thing. More in a minute.

Uruk Slayer might be a great idea. With KoI and 7 pumps (or 4 pumps + LBC again) can be really devastating. Moreover, you can bluff interestingly with an unexhausted Uruk Slayer and Keeper of Isengard protecting him (making opponent believe you have Bred for Battle), as far as the FP player doesn't look at your hand...

Trufe.

Removing 4 burdens is great, that's right. I support House of Elrond as far as you start 2 elves. Anyway, Rivendell Terrace works with men too and you have 4 in the deck. I use that site with my 41/41 deck and have only 2 Breelanders to trigger it, nonetheless it's still useful. 4 men + 4 copies of Boromir, as Aragorn is reserved for the later game... you might give it a try.

You have a point, and I might give it a try... but in order to make use of that site text I would need to draw them naturally. A lot of times it's AWiNL that pulls those guys out.

Wizard Staff doesn't get discarded by Sleep Caradhras or Saruman's Power. And is a surprise many won't expect, even seeing it on the board. With only elves and men, FotS is strength 9. With a Wizard Staff will fight better against Uruks, even Troop of Uruk-Hai.

Good point about getting Gandalf up to strength 10, there's a lot of strength 9 minions. I'll think about it.

Pipeweed decks often don't play a single ally, and Elrond HtGG can stand by himself against a Tower Assassin. Against everything else Uruk Raider should work marvels. Hobbit Hospital gets splintered now, and that was a strong threat I think.

Timing is everything. Even with an Ally like Elrond, usually I can catch him with some exerts already on him, or hit him with successive copies of Tower Assassin. And if he's really playing with no Allies at all... well I'll just have to set up a swarm, I guess. Make smart use of my events.

Again, try to incorporate some copies of Lurtz's Battle Cry. With Lurtz or a protected Uruk Slayer can turn a safe skirimish into a surprise killing. Another killer idea might be Lurtz's Sword!

I'll take a look at this.

That's other great trick they have to turn a safe skirimish into an instant death.

So far it hasn't killed anyone. Still considering its effectiveness. Seems like the potential should be there. I've canceled Stealth events with it, but so far the opponent has been lucky enough to have another one in hand.

Sweep the board with Sleep Caradhras, then clear the newcoming conditions (Black Breath, Blade Tip) with Secret Sentinels. 2x and 2x.

To use Secret Sentinels I'd have to draw Elrond naturally, and then exert him, which means he isn't drawing me a card that turn. Normally I'd have him draw me that card, since I have no way of knowing if there will be more conditions coming at me or not, and I need to keep my cycling up.

Asfaloth is awesome at Hollin. As far as you have another copy for further sites. Galadriel (or any Galadhrim) can have it until Arwen reaches 6.

I don't have any Site 6 Allies. And the general idea is to put it on Arwen early, lose it Underground, and then put it on her again at Site 6. It's a free +2 for Arwen, so why not?

That's a possibility, but then try to incorporate 4x ARfM as you will need to cycle really fast.

That is indeed what I've done... 3x, anyway. And I've also added 2x Saruman's Ambition, which we dismissed earlier. I'd forgotten about the other part of its text: events are -1. So now I can discard and draw three for only 1 twilight, possibly even zero twilight, and I don't have to draw or play any to do it, nor am I dependent on They Are Coming. Here's the latest build:

Starting cards:
Ring-bearer: Frodo, Old Bilbo's Heir
Ring: The One Ring, Isildur's Bane
1x Arwen, Daughter of Elrond
1x Legolas, Greenleaf

Adventure deck:
Green Dragon Inn
Trollshaw Forest
House of Elrond
Hollin
The Bridge of Khazad-dum
Caras Galadhon
Anduin Wilderland
Gates of Argonath
Slopes of Amon Hen

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Gandalf, Friend of the Shirefolk
1x Aragorn, Ranger of the North
4x Boromir, Defender of Minas Tirith
1x Sam, Son of Hamfast
3x Elrond, Lord of Rivendell
1x Albert Dreary, Entertainer From Bree
1x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
1x Erland, Advisor to Brand
1x Ottar, Man of Laketown
1x Bounder
2x Asfaloth
3x Gwemegil
2x Armor
2x Athelas
1x Blade of Gondor
2x Flaming Brand
3x Horn of Boromir
2x Sting
1x Mithril-coat
4x Foul Creation
4x A Wizard Is Never Late
3x Sleep Caradhras
4x Hobbit Stealth

Shadow Draw Deck:
3x Lurtz, Servant of Isengard
4x Saruman, Keeper of Isengard
4x Troop of Uruk-hai
3x Uruk Captain
1x Uruk Lieutenant
4x Uruk Raider
4x Goblin Runner
1x The Balrog, Durin's Bane
4x Tower Assassin
3x Abandoning Reason for Madness
2x Beyond the Height of Men
4x Bred for Battle
4x Saruman's Power
4x Savagery to Match Their Numbers
3x Wariness
2x Saruman's Ambition

Incidentally, we are now back to 100 cards. The previous version I posted had edged up to 102.

Changes in this version:

Took out 2x Might of Numenor (wasn't effective) and 2x Hobbit Intuition (mostly I was needing Stealths that were effective through site 5, too often I wasn't drawing Hobbit Intuition fast enough to be of much use).

Added another Athelas, for 2x total: Healing is always good, and useful against both Nazgul and .

Added another Horn of Boromir, for 3x total: I decided that Horn really is a strong part of the deck strategy. Boromir + Horn + Elrond = A 14 strength self-healing fighter every turn. Even without Elrond, those Allies make great disposable meat shields.

Added Mithril-coat: Still testing this out, wish it was cheaper, but it's hard to deny the value of -1 Archery, no weapon bonuses, and Armor that the Shadow can't possibly get rid of.

Replaced that last Deep in Thought with a third Sleep, Caradhras. I have no conditions, might as well go with condition bombs I can count on, even though I don't like the extra twilight in Fellowship.

Took out Goblin Scrabbler, Goblin Warrior, Such a Little Thing x2, They Are Coming x4, and (of course) 2x Hate and Anger. The only left is The Balrog, Durin's Bane and Goblin Runner x4, because I can still use extra twilight whenever I can get it.

Took out 1x Lurtz, Servant of Isengard and 1x Uruk Captain (per your suggestions), leaving 3x of each. So far liking this.

Added 1x Uruk Lieutenant: Just an extra strong but cheap Uruk to replace the Lurtz and Captain I removed.

Added 3x Abandoning Reason for Madness. I'm liking this now, especially now that I've got a 2-cost Uruk, and can potentially make the event free to play with Saruman's Ambition. Speaking of which...

Added 2x Saruman's Ambition: A disposable powerup that can potentially make my events cheaper to play.

Added 4x Bred for Battle: We're going strong with cheap pumps, which are themselves very easy to cycle.

Added 1x Saruman's Power, for a total of 4x: With no more Goblin Scrabbler or Goblin Warrior, I wanted to beef up my condition removal a bit. Goblin Warrior is especially better off gone, since I don't want to discard Dwarf Allies... I want to kill them!

...and that's it! I don't know if it's the deck, or the way I'm playing it, but it's definitely feeling more effective now.

So, if I were to put in a 4th ARfM, and one or two Lurtz's Battle Cry, what do you think I might remove? What might I remove to put in Wizard Staff?

[sgtdraino]

Okay, I think this deck may now be about as good as it's going to get... which is pretty good, IMO! Here's the build:

Starting cards:
Ring-bearer: Frodo, Old Bilbo's Heir
Ring: The One Ring, Isildur's Bane
1x Arwen, Daughter of Elrond
1x Legolas, Greenleaf

Adventure deck:
Green Dragon Inn
Trollshaw Forest
House of Elrond
Hollin
The Bridge of Khazad-dum
Caras Galadhon
Anduin Wilderland
Gates of Argonath
Slopes of Amon Hen

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Gandalf, Friend of the Shirefolk
1x Aragorn, Ranger of the North
4x Boromir, Defender of Minas Tirith
1x Sam, Son of Hamfast
3x Elrond, Lord of Rivendell
1x Albert Dreary, Entertainer From Bree
1x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
1x Ottar, Man of Laketown
1x Bounder
2x Asfaloth
3x Gwemegil
2x Armor
2x Athelas
1x Blade of Gondor
3x Flaming Brand
3x Horn of Boromir
2x Sting
1x Mithril-coat
4x Foul Creation
4x A Wizard Is Never Late
3x Sleep Caradhras
4x Hobbit Stealth

Shadow Draw Deck:
3x Lurtz, Servant of Isengard
4x Saruman, Keeper of Isengard
4x Troop of Uruk-hai
3x Uruk Captain
1x Uruk Lieutenant
4x Uruk Raider
4x Goblin Runner
1x The Balrog, Durin's Bane
4x Tower Assassin
3x Abandoning Reason for Madness
2x Beyond the Height of Men
4x Bred for Battle
2x Lurtz's Battle Cry
4x Saruman's Power
4x Savagery to Match Their Numbers
3x Saruman's Ambition

Total: 50/50

Changes to this version:

Removed Erland, Adviser to Brand, and replaced him with a 3rd Flaming Brand (for a total of 3x Flaming Brand). The deck was still feeling a bit weak versus Nazgul, and the main reason for Erland was a counter to The Palantir of Orthanc, which I actually don't seem to see all that much, and I suspect really wouldn't be that effective against me at this point.

Removed all 3 copies of Wariness. Wariness seemed like a good idea, but in practice, I just either never seem to have them at the right time, or the hobbit would still manage to survive the fight somehow.

Added 2x Lurtz's Battle Cry. Tried 3 for a bit, but I've shifted back to 2. Hand was getting a bit clogged with 3.

Added another Saruman's Ambition (for a total of 3). They don't clog up my hand, they're another pump, and they make all my events cheaper.

I tried Wizard Staff for a bit, but it just wasn't working for me. Gandalf often has too many hits on him to use it to power somebody else up, it's kind of expensive to play, there's a chance I'll draw it too early and clog my hand, and it seems like more often than not even a strength 10 Gandalf wasn't enough to beat a guy.

I'm tempted to try to fit a 4th Flaming Brand in there, a 3rd Athelas, or even a 2nd Aragorn, Ranger of the North, but I'm not really sure what could possibly come out for that. At this point, it feels like everything else is vital, and pretty well balanced.

Thoughts? Suggestions?