Arwengard

[Durin's Heir]

Anduin Wilderland doesn't backfire either, since Legolas is almost never around by then. Silverlode Banks is tempting, but I feel like it's exceedingly rare that I'll be up against a fellowship with no ranger when they hit Site 7. Still, I might test it out. Conversely, I can think of multiple times when I've been glad to skip the Archery Phase at Site 7, either because he's got Greenleaf and Aragorn's Bow complete with The Saga of Elendil and The Tale of Gil-galad, and can shoot the crap out of my minions KoI or no KoI... or occasionally because he's running Moria swarm archery, and I'm happy that his minions can't shoot at my guys either.

Silverlode Banks is meant to batter on Dwarves and Hobbit Hospital. Hobbits rely on allies but you won't ditch them with Anduin Confluence.

With 7 pumps, or 4 pumps and several copies of Lurtz's Battle Cry (awesome with 2x or more Beyond the Height of Men), you might very well get rid of all rangers before site 7...

Maaaaaybe. I've tested a version with 3x HaA, but still the same number of minions (6), and I wasn't really all that thrilled with it. Note that even if you add more minions, you still can't have more than 4x Goblin Runner, so your chances of getting a setup where he can reduce the cost of HaA by adding twilight in, doesn't really improve by adding more Moria minions. On the contrary, if you haven't drawn Goblin Runner yet, then it's going to cost you +1 twilight to play some other guy from discard, on top of the 2 you'll pay for HaA.

The TAC-Cycling-Machine and HaA are meant to collaborate, but are indeed different things. More cheap Goblins will make the machine start earlier, only 6/100 is just too little. The HaA thing is merely nitrogenated fuel for the machine, you have to set up the cycling machine and then help it with HaA.

By the way, the sooner you get the TAC machine running, the sooner you will have a Goblin Runner in hand/discard pile. 6 goblins is too little for both HaA, and more importantly, TAC.

Try to have at least 8% goblins in a deck to start the cycling machine as early as you can. HaA is secondary to that. It was meant to help the cycling but not being the base of it.

I can't propose anything else by now. 5 slots = 2 Goblins + 3 HaA. = Much greater cycling. Give it a try and then judge.

I'll try a version with this, and let you know how it goes.

I'm waiting my fellow, but take your time! It will require many tests to determine if it's well directioned.

It's okay with me if he discards other things to keep Boromir. From my experiences so far, sometimes I manage to kill Boromir, other times I still make him get rid of useful possessions. About the only times it doesn't feel very effective, is if he's running a pipeweed deck.

Can ditch Athelas too. Or Armor. Or Flaming Brand. Such A Little Thing strikes the sooner the better, and you will need more copies of goblins to do so.

Cantea is out. More on this in a minute. Interesting thoughts on Lurtz and Uruk Captain, you may be on to something there. Maybe 3x of each? Who would go in instead?

Uruk Slayer might be a great idea. With KoI and 7 pumps (or 4 pumps + LBC again) can be really devastating. Moreover, you can bluff interestingly with an unexhausted Uruk Slayer and Keeper of Isengard protecting him (making opponent believe you have Bred for Battle), as far as the FP player doesn't look at your hand...

In my experience, I rarely have Boromir or Aragorn exactly on Site 3, I get then either before or after. House of Elrond is helping me out more now, because I can bid 4 instead of 3. Pull Sam, take off 3, kill off Sam, take off the last burden when I move to House of Elrond. I feel like 4 is generally enough to guarantee I go first 95% of the time.

Removing 4 burdens is great, that's right. I support House of Elrond as far as you start 2 elves. Anyway, Rivendell Terrace works with men too and you have 4 in the deck. I use that site with my 41/41 deck and have only 2 Breelanders to trigger it, nonetheless it's still useful. 4 men + 4 copies of Boromir, as Aragorn is reserved for the later game... you might give it a try.

I'd probably be more inclined to add Trust Me As You Once Did, before a Wizard Staff.

Wizard Staff doesn't get discarded by Sleep Caradhras or Saruman's Power. And is a surprise many won't expect, even seeing it on the board. With only elves and men, FotS is strength 9. With a Wizard Staff will fight better against Uruks, even Troop of Uruk-Hai.

Some big changes with this build.

I removed Shotgun Enquea and Ulaire Enquea. I decided that most Fellowships probably aren't going to try to run 6 guys against Uruk-hai.

Good point!

One of the biggest changes, which I feel may be revolutionary, is replacing Uruk Ravager with Uruk Raider, and a full complement of 4x Tower Assassin. It seems like essentially EVERY Fellowship Block deck runs Allies, so this gives me a cheap fierce strength 9 Uruk with or without KoI. I really feel like this has legs.

Pipeweed decks often don't play a single ally, and Elrond HtGG can stand by himself against a Tower Assassin. Against everything else Uruk Raider should work marvels. Hobbit Hospital gets splintered now, and that was a strong threat I think.

Took out 1 Beyond the Height of Men, after realizing you can't get rid of Mithril-coat with it. Kept 2 copies, since getting rid of Armor is pretty important to winning with Uruks. This way hopefully there will be less chance I'll draw it before they get some Armor out for me to ditch.

Again, try to incorporate some copies of Lurtz's Battle Cry. With Lurtz or a protected Uruk Slayer can turn a safe skirmish into a surprise killing. Another killer idea might be Lurtz's Sword!

Added 3x Wariness. I feel like there's a big tendency in the meta to really depend on those Hobbit stealth events. If I can cancel one unexpectedly, it may mean a surprise death.

That's other great trick they have to turn a safe skirmish into an instant death.

All Dwarfs are out, Shoulder to Shoulder is out, we're once again back to having no FP conditions, so I've shifted the balance back over to 2x Sleep, Caradhras and 1x Deep in Thought. I may go full-on Sleep, too often I find myself unable to play DiT, especially with Shoulder to Shoulder out.

Sweep the board with Sleep Caradhras, then clear the newcoming conditions (Black Breath, Blade Tip) with Secret Sentinels. 2x and 2x.

Added a 2nd Asfaloth, for early Arwen strength. Added Athelas for healing and better counter-Nazgulery.

Asfaloth is awesome at Hollin. As far as you have another copy for further sites. Galadriel (or any Galadhrim) can have it until Arwen reaches 6.

At this point, I'm seriously thinking about taking out entirely.

That's a possibility, but then try to incorporate 4x ARfM as you will need to cycle really fast. Goblin Man is an underrated card to add in that scenario...

[sgtdraino]

You're starting to realize why people run "the same decks", I think. Fellowship Block has been worn over.

That does seem generally true.

I've run 3 Tower Assassin and Uruk Raider before, so it's not revolutionary.

Well, it's not something I ever see, and I came up with it on my own, so that's good enough for me.

And I like Wariness. Since you like experimenting, and you're running big minions, why not try Lurtz's Battle Cry?

Maaaaybe. I kind of don't want to, because I see that a lot... but it can be very effective. I'll think about it.

I still don't see when you want to play the Balrog over dumping Uruks out your hand.

It all depends on the situation at hand. If he's running heavy Archery and I don't have a KoI ready, that Balrog can really put a crimp on things, and sometimes kill a guy, because most players don't expect the cheap Balrog. Heck, he costs less than Lurtz! Most of the time I can play him, and still have enough twilight leftover so that, if he doubles, Uruks are going to come out and kick arse. And The Balrog is just one card, if I have a great hand of and enough twilight to play it, then I'll just go ahead and play it. The Balrog is just an option that I can take or leave, depending on the situation.

The amount of options you have for cycling in both FP AND Shadow is very substantial. I'd say the typical "large" deck runs around 80 for FotR, but just looking at the sheer amount of cycling you have, I'd say you could get 100 cards to function in relatively the same capacity as an 80 card deck.

I think/hope so. I do normally still have quite a few cards at the end of the game... but then so does my Expanded deck, and it's still highly effective. Of course, that deck does have more "search" capability that this one.

What is good about it is that once you know what strategy your opponent is playing you can start dumping the cards you don't need by the handful to get to your magic bullet cards almost as fast as a normal deck.

It is also nice having to immediately not worry about discard as well In fact you'd probably be happy if they are playing discard as it would more than likely help you cycle, while you run.

That's the idea!

From a cost-benefit standpoint, I'm wondering if x2 Such a little thing is going to give you bang for your buck. In a deck that just runs the good Boromir (healing) as a splash, you might be able to take him down with just one...but every time its been done against me there's always been 2 possessions I can dump. And a horn deck definitely has possessions to throw away. Not sure what would be a substitute if you went with something else...in any case SALT would at least slow them down perhaps. And it's pretty easy to play one once you draw it with TAC out

As a matter of fact, Such a Little Thing is now OUT. More on this in a minute.

Cool deck Are you going to try for "Gandgul" next? hehe

Heh heh. Only if I decide "Arwengard" is a dead end.

I was thinking about Lurtz's Battle Cry too. It's such a great card once you dump the Armors/Gimli's helm.

I guess I'll have to try it then.

I've found out in my deckbuilding experience, the FOTR Block has still so many unexplored options... There are some crazy strong ideas there, I'm working on a couple but won't post them until they are fully finished.

Looking forward to seeing what you can come up with.

I play a deck with 41 cards per side, and works very good. Often wonderfully. There was nothing remotely close in the whole TLHH database, the design is totally mine: Conditionless Dwarves + Gandalf / Moria Axe Beatdown. They kill Balrogs and Cave Trolls and move on. With time I've identified some weak points and how to correct them, and I'm determined to change it from 'often wonderfully' to 'always'.

Cool. You should make a thread for it!

Silverlode Banks is meant to batter on Dwarves and Hobbit Hospital. Hobbits rely on allies but you won't ditch them with Anduin Confluence.

I just don't see Dwarfs or Hobbit Hospital very often. I feel like I have to plan for the stuff I'm more likely to have problems with.

With 7 pumps, or 4 pumps and several copies of Lurtz's Battle Cry (awesome with 2x or more Beyond the Height of Men), you might very well get rid of all rangers before site 7...

Then again I might not. I could also lose my own Rangers before site 7, that's happened too. There have been a few games where Arwen gets killed, and Aragorn and Boromir don't show themselves until late.

The TAC-Cycling-Machine and HaA are meant to collaborate, but are indeed different things. More cheap Goblins will make the machine start earlier, only 6/100 is just too little. The HaA thing is merely nitrogenated fuel for the machine, you have to set up the cycling machine and then help it with HaA.

More on this is a sec.

I'm waiting my fellow, but take your time! It will require many tests to determine if it's well directioned.

Granted I didn't test it a bunch, but I tried it a few times, and I didn't feel like it was working for me. It's the same thing I talked about before: It's just taking me too much twilight to set up. More Orcs doesn't necessarily get me Goblin Runner any faster, They Are Coming costs 3 all by itself, and until I get a Goblin Runner, in order to make use of the TAC HaA machine, I'll have to discard 3 cards from hand and use 3 twilight in order to draw 3 cards. I think I've found a better option. More on this in a minute.

btw, feel free to build a TAC/HaA version of my deck and see if you can make it work better!

Can ditch Athelas too. Or Armor. Or Flaming Brand. Such A Little Thing strikes the sooner the better, and you will need more copies of goblins to do so.

is now mostly out, and so is Such a Little Thing. More in a minute.

Uruk Slayer might be a great idea. With KoI and 7 pumps (or 4 pumps + LBC again) can be really devastating. Moreover, you can bluff interestingly with an unexhausted Uruk Slayer and Keeper of Isengard protecting him (making opponent believe you have Bred for Battle), as far as the FP player doesn't look at your hand...

Trufe.

Removing 4 burdens is great, that's right. I support House of Elrond as far as you start 2 elves. Anyway, Rivendell Terrace works with men too and you have 4 in the deck. I use that site with my 41/41 deck and have only 2 Breelanders to trigger it, nonetheless it's still useful. 4 men + 4 copies of Boromir, as Aragorn is reserved for the later game... you might give it a try.

You have a point, and I might give it a try... but in order to make use of that site text I would need to draw them naturally. A lot of times it's AWiNL that pulls those guys out.

Wizard Staff doesn't get discarded by Sleep Caradhras or Saruman's Power. And is a surprise many won't expect, even seeing it on the board. With only elves and men, FotS is strength 9. With a Wizard Staff will fight better against Uruks, even Troop of Uruk-Hai.

Good point about getting Gandalf up to strength 10, there's a lot of strength 9 minions. I'll think about it.

Pipeweed decks often don't play a single ally, and Elrond HtGG can stand by himself against a Tower Assassin. Against everything else Uruk Raider should work marvels. Hobbit Hospital gets splintered now, and that was a strong threat I think.

Timing is everything. Even with an Ally like Elrond, usually I can catch him with some exerts already on him, or hit him with successive copies of Tower Assassin. And if he's really playing with no Allies at all... well I'll just have to set up a swarm, I guess. Make smart use of my events.

Again, try to incorporate some copies of Lurtz's Battle Cry. With Lurtz or a protected Uruk Slayer can turn a safe skirimish into a surprise killing. Another killer idea might be Lurtz's Sword!

I'll take a look at this.

That's other great trick they have to turn a safe skirimish into an instant death.

So far it hasn't killed anyone. Still considering its effectiveness. Seems like the potential should be there. I've canceled Stealth events with it, but so far the opponent has been lucky enough to have another one in hand.

Sweep the board with Sleep Caradhras, then clear the newcoming conditions (Black Breath, Blade Tip) with Secret Sentinels. 2x and 2x.

To use Secret Sentinels I'd have to draw Elrond naturally, and then exert him, which means he isn't drawing me a card that turn. Normally I'd have him draw me that card, since I have no way of knowing if there will be more conditions coming at me or not, and I need to keep my cycling up.

Asfaloth is awesome at Hollin. As far as you have another copy for further sites. Galadriel (or any Galadhrim) can have it until Arwen reaches 6.

I don't have any Site 6 Allies. And the general idea is to put it on Arwen early, lose it Underground, and then put it on her again at Site 6. It's a free +2 for Arwen, so why not?

That's a possibility, but then try to incorporate 4x ARfM as you will need to cycle really fast.

That is indeed what I've done... 3x, anyway. And I've also added 2x Saruman's Ambition, which we dismissed earlier. I'd forgotten about the other part of its text: events are -1. So now I can discard and draw three for only 1 twilight, possibly even zero twilight, and I don't have to draw or play any to do it, nor am I dependent on They Are Coming. Here's the latest build:

Starting cards:
Ring-bearer: Frodo, Old Bilbo's Heir
Ring: The One Ring, Isildur's Bane
1x Arwen, Daughter of Elrond
1x Legolas, Greenleaf

Adventure deck:
Green Dragon Inn
Trollshaw Forest
House of Elrond
Hollin
The Bridge of Khazad-dum
Caras Galadhon
Anduin Wilderland
Gates of Argonath
Slopes of Amon Hen

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Gandalf, Friend of the Shirefolk
1x Aragorn, Ranger of the North
4x Boromir, Defender of Minas Tirith
1x Sam, Son of Hamfast
3x Elrond, Lord of Rivendell
1x Albert Dreary, Entertainer From Bree
1x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
1x Erland, Advisor to Brand
1x Ottar, Man of Laketown
1x Bounder
2x Asfaloth
3x Gwemegil
2x Armor
2x Athelas
1x Blade of Gondor
2x Flaming Brand
3x Horn of Boromir
2x Sting
1x Mithril-coat
4x Foul Creation
4x A Wizard Is Never Late
3x Sleep Caradhras
4x Hobbit Stealth

Shadow Draw Deck:
3x Lurtz, Servant of Isengard
4x Saruman, Keeper of Isengard
4x Troop of Uruk-hai
3x Uruk Captain
1x Uruk Lieutenant
4x Uruk Raider
4x Goblin Runner
1x The Balrog, Durin's Bane
4x Tower Assassin
3x Abandoning Reason for Madness
2x Beyond the Height of Men
4x Bred for Battle
4x Saruman's Power
4x Savagery to Match Their Numbers
3x Wariness
2x Saruman's Ambition

Incidentally, we are now back to 100 cards. The previous version I posted had edged up to 102.

Changes in this version:

Took out 2x Might of Numenor (wasn't effective) and 2x Hobbit Intuition (mostly I was needing Stealths that were effective through site 5, too often I wasn't drawing Hobbit Intuition fast enough to be of much use).

Added another Athelas, for 2x total: Healing is always good, and useful against both Nazgul and .

Added another Horn of Boromir, for 3x total: I decided that Horn really is a strong part of the deck strategy. Boromir + Horn + Elrond = A 14 strength self-healing fighter every turn. Even without Elrond, those Allies make great disposable meat shields.

Added Mithril-coat: Still testing this out, wish it was cheaper, but it's hard to deny the value of -1 Archery, no weapon bonuses, and Armor that the Shadow can't possibly get rid of.

Replaced that last Deep in Thought with a third Sleep, Caradhras. I have no conditions, might as well go with condition bombs I can count on, even though I don't like the extra twilight in Fellowship.

Took out Goblin Scrabbler, Goblin Warrior, Such a Little Thing x2, They Are Coming x4, and (of course) 2x Hate and Anger. The only left is The Balrog, Durin's Bane and Goblin Runner x4, because I can still use extra twilight whenever I can get it.

Took out 1x Lurtz, Servant of Isengard and 1x Uruk Captain (per your suggestions), leaving 3x of each. So far liking this.

Added 1x Uruk Lieutenant: Just an extra strong but cheap Uruk to replace the Lurtz and Captain I removed.

Added 3x Abandoning Reason for Madness. I'm liking this now, especially now that I've got a 2-cost Uruk, and can potentially make the event free to play with Saruman's Ambition. Speaking of which...

Added 2x Saruman's Ambition: A disposable powerup that can potentially make my events cheaper to play.

Added 4x Bred for Battle: We're going strong with cheap pumps, which are themselves very easy to cycle.

Added 1x Saruman's Power, for a total of 4x: With no more Goblin Scrabbler or Goblin Warrior, I wanted to beef up my condition removal a bit. Goblin Warrior is especially better off gone, since I don't want to discard Dwarf Allies... I want to kill them!

...and that's it! I don't know if it's the deck, or the way I'm playing it, but it's definitely feeling more effective now.

So, if I were to put in a 4th ARfM, and one or two Lurtz's Battle Cry, what do you think I might remove? What might I remove to put in Wizard Staff?

[sgtdraino]

Okay, I think this deck may now be about as good as it's going to get... which is pretty good, IMO! Here's the build:

Starting cards:
Ring-bearer: Frodo, Old Bilbo's Heir
Ring: The One Ring, Isildur's Bane
1x Arwen, Daughter of Elrond
1x Legolas, Greenleaf

Adventure deck:
Green Dragon Inn
Trollshaw Forest
House of Elrond
Hollin
The Bridge of Khazad-dum
Caras Galadhon
Anduin Wilderland
Gates of Argonath
Slopes of Amon Hen

Free Peoples Draw Deck:
1x Gandalf, Friend of the Shirefolk
1x Aragorn, Ranger of the North
4x Boromir, Defender of Minas Tirith
1x Sam, Son of Hamfast
3x Elrond, Lord of Rivendell
1x Albert Dreary, Entertainer From Bree
1x Barliman Butterbur, Prancing Pony Proprietor
1x Ottar, Man of Laketown
1x Bounder
2x Asfaloth
3x Gwemegil
2x Armor
2x Athelas
1x Blade of Gondor
3x Flaming Brand
3x Horn of Boromir
2x Sting
1x Mithril-coat
4x Foul Creation
4x A Wizard Is Never Late
3x Sleep Caradhras
4x Hobbit Stealth

Shadow Draw Deck:
3x Lurtz, Servant of Isengard
4x Saruman, Keeper of Isengard
4x Troop of Uruk-hai
3x Uruk Captain
1x Uruk Lieutenant
4x Uruk Raider
4x Goblin Runner
1x The Balrog, Durin's Bane
4x Tower Assassin
3x Abandoning Reason for Madness
2x Beyond the Height of Men
4x Bred for Battle
2x Lurtz's Battle Cry
4x Saruman's Power
4x Savagery to Match Their Numbers
3x Saruman's Ambition

Total: 50/50

Changes to this version:

Removed Erland, Adviser to Brand, and replaced him with a 3rd Flaming Brand (for a total of 3x Flaming Brand). The deck was still feeling a bit weak versus Nazgul, and the main reason for Erland was a counter to The Palantir of Orthanc, which I actually don't seem to see all that much, and I suspect really wouldn't be that effective against me at this point.

Removed all 3 copies of Wariness. Wariness seemed like a good idea, but in practice, I just either never seem to have them at the right time, or the hobbit would still manage to survive the fight somehow.

Added 2x Lurtz's Battle Cry. Tried 3 for a bit, but I've shifted back to 2. Hand was getting a bit clogged with 3.

Added another Saruman's Ambition (for a total of 3). They don't clog up my hand, they're another pump, and they make all my events cheaper.

I tried Wizard Staff for a bit, but it just wasn't working for me. Gandalf often has too many hits on him to use it to power somebody else up, it's kind of expensive to play, there's a chance I'll draw it too early and clog my hand, and it seems like more often than not even a strength 10 Gandalf wasn't enough to beat a guy.

I'm tempted to try to fit a 4th Flaming Brand in there, a 3rd Athelas, or even a 2nd Aragorn, Ranger of the North, but I'm not really sure what could possibly come out for that. At this point, it feels like everything else is vital, and pretty well balanced.

Thoughts? Suggestions?