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August 18, 2015, 10:06:57 AM
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Dictionary

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Isengard Men
« on: August 18, 2015, 10:06:57 AM »
I've always felt this culture was one of the least developed by Decipher, so here are some of my ideas. I felt like the theme of [Isengard] Men was debilitation and weakening the Fellowship with conditions. However, it's highly unreliable as most of the cards only target Free Peoples Men, and condition discard is rampant in the later formats. The following cards are Return of the King supplements, as one of them uses threats.

[2] • An Already Troubled Mind, [Isengard]
Condition • Support Area
Each time you play an [Isengard] Man, add a threat. Each [Isengard] card that plays on a Free Peoples Man may be played on any companion (Except the Ring-Bearer).
"Late is the hour in which this conjurer chooses to appear. ‘Lathspell' I name him. Ill news is an ill guest.
Rare

[1] • Such Malice, [Isengard]
Condition • Support Area
Grima is strength + 1 for each [Isengard] condition borne by a companion.
The Free Peoples player cannot reduce the strength of [Isengard] Men.
"He bared his teeth; and then with a hissing breath he spat before the king's feet"
Uncommon

[2] • The Palantír of Orthanc, Lost Seeing Stone [Isengard]
Artifact • Support Area
To play, spot 2 [Isengard] Men.
No more than 2 [Isengard] conditions may be discarded by a Free Peoples effect. Each Free Peoples card that discards one or more conditions gains this cost: "wound a companion."
"They are not all accounted for, the lost seeing stones. We do not know who else may be watching."
Rare

[8] • Théoden, Corrupted King [Isengard]
Minion • Man
Strength: 15
Vitality: 1
Site Number: 3
To play, if you can spot Théoden, return him, and all cards on him, to their owner's hands. At the start of the maneuver phase, you may spot another [Isengard] Man to make this minion Fierce, Damage + 1 and unable to take wounds until the end of the turn.
"Why should I welcome you, Gandalf Stormcrow?"
Rare

[2] Rohirrim Spy, [Isengard]
Minion • Man
Strength: 5
Vitality: 2
Site Number: 3
To play, spot an [Isengard] Man. Shadow: Exert this minion to play an [Isengard] condition from your draw deck.
"'Trust not to secret ways,' said the king. 'Saruman has long spied out this land. Still in that place our defence may last long.'"
Uncommon

So these give us a counter to Gandalf's Mass condition discard, a counter to GLR (Play Leechcraft on her with An Already Troubled Mind in play) as well as free threats and a big tank who's immune to Glimpse of Fate and Forearmed (with Such Malice). What do you guys think? Too overpowered/underpowered?

EDIT: Rohirrim Spy updated.
« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 09:16:09 AM by Dictionary »
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August 18, 2015, 12:58:03 PM
Reply #1

Not a Zombie

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #1 on: August 18, 2015, 12:58:03 PM »
I love the cards, minus theoden. He doesn't really have the flavor for me. When Saruman was controlling his mind, he wasn't a beating people up, and he was much weaker. I think he needs a more treacherous text and such, maybe something like:

[5] • Théoden, Corrupted King [Isengard]
Minion • Man
Strength: 8
Vitality: 1
Site Number: 3
To play, if you can spot Théoden, return him, and all cards on him, to their owner's hands. While you can spot another [Isengard] man, each unique companion (except the ring bearer), and all free peoples cards they bear, is treated as though their text boxes were blank.
"Why should I welcome you, Gandalf Stormcrow?"
Rare

It shows how people under his leadership were immobilized or unable to act. Its a little text heavy, but you get the idea.
No one loves you like I do.
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I'm imploring people I've never met to pressure a government with better things to do to punish a man who meant no harm for something nobody even saw, thats what I'm doing!

August 18, 2015, 02:23:06 PM
Reply #2

ket_the_jet

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #2 on: August 18, 2015, 02:23:06 PM »
I'm on the same lines. I'd almost be interested in this:
 
[1] •Theoden, Corrupted King [Isengard]
Minion • Man
Strength: 2
Vitality: 1
Site Number: 3
To play, spot Saruman.
When you play this minion, if you can spot Theoden, return him and all cards on him to their owner's hand. The Free People's player may exert Gandalf twice to prevent this.
"Why should I welcome you, Gandalf Stormcrow?"
Rare

Actually, I *really* like the sound of that.
-wtk

August 18, 2015, 02:38:57 PM
Reply #3

ket_the_jet

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #3 on: August 18, 2015, 02:38:57 PM »
Might as well look at the other cards.

I don't know that Such Malice is particularly flavorful as well. All of the men who were disloyal to Theoden [seems like Grima was the only one actually kicked out of Rohan, by the way] were total wimps when getting beaten up by the three hunters. The more I read the remainder of the cards, I feel like they are a lot more along the lines of countering cards that are already severely overpowered like Lady Redeemed or, borderline, Glimpse of Fate.

What does the culture do well right now? Well, it does some pre-skirmish wounding with Rohirrim Traitor, it gets rid of possessions with Grima, Wormtongue and Where Has Grima Stowed It?, and it punishes multiculturalism with Agents of Orthanc and Grima, Chief Counselor. I think that rather than making them a viable punisher of a Shadow side [seeing as they weren't much of a threat to anyone save Theoden], you should look to make some of their cards more splashable so that they are a sometimes annoyance.

I don't think anyone would disagree that there is nothing more annoying than Grima, Wormtongue or Grima, Chief Counselor clogging up your hand.
-wtk


August 18, 2015, 04:56:33 PM
Reply #4

Dictionary

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #4 on: August 18, 2015, 04:56:33 PM »
@Not a Zombie: I'm glad you like the cards :) I prefer your version of Theoden actually, I decided to make the one I posted unable to take wounds because the Free Peoples guys wouldn't want to kill him, and I gave him high stats because of the damage he could cause under Saruman's influence, but I do agree that a more subtle ability fits in better thematically, and I like the idea of his global weakening.

@Ket_The_Jet: Not so sure about this. Wouldn't he only be effective against Free Peoples Theoden? And he doesn't see very much play in Movie. Regarding your point about countering cards, I don't necessarily want to counter specific cards, but I feel like [Isengard] men need something to keep them relevant. I do see them as their own culture, look at all the cards released like Wounded, Leechcraft, Twisted Tales, Banished, Men Will Fall, Rohan is Mine! - None of these cards are splashable, but all of them involve weakening the Fellowship so much that, even though the [Isengard] men themselves are weak, so are the companions, which makes up for it.

Bear in mind that Aragorn, Gimli and Legolas took on hordes of uruks by themselves, so naturally they could easily defeat non-fighting men, even without weapons. Grima and Co. wanted to sow discord amongst the good guys, hence all the nasty conditions, but because they're limited to targeting men, they're mostly unusable. Take that away, and you don't even need a GLR counter, Leechcraft does it for you. However, a shadow that is so completely dependant on such conditions has to have a way to deal with Sleep, Caradhras or similar, otherwise it simply won't get used. And the counter to Glimpse of Fate/ Forearmed was for tank Theoden, so if we're make him more of a global weakener, it won't be needed. But I would expect Grima to be far bolder when the fellowship fights amongst itself, so why shouldn't he gain strength for each condition; The principle is very similar to Gollum, Stinker.

With regard to the splashing element, I've only ever seen Grima splashed, and that's only because his abilties aren't culturally enforced. Son of Galmod is actually the main one I use in a [Isengard] men deck, again, because of his condition synergy. But of the 4 [Isengard] Grimas, he is the only one that isn't splashed - which almost implies his ability is more culturally relevant than the others.
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August 19, 2015, 08:28:33 AM
Reply #5

Not a Zombie

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #5 on: August 19, 2015, 08:28:33 AM »
@Dictionary: I do like your thematic explanation. I've always had a soft spot for [Isengard] men :)
No one loves you like I do.
--God

I'm imploring people I've never met to pressure a government with better things to do to punish a man who meant no harm for something nobody even saw, thats what I'm doing!

August 19, 2015, 09:03:13 AM
Reply #6

ket_the_jet

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #6 on: August 19, 2015, 09:03:13 AM »
I've got to say, I don't think that there is much going on with the [Isengard] Men. At the worst, they are an inconvenience to Gandalf and the hunters on their quest and the only real threats are Saruman, who isn't a Man at all, and Grima, who feeds Theoden Saruman's lies and [allegedly] eats a Hobbit.

Some advance agents of Saruman start sowing seeds of discontent in the Shire, leading to his petty takeover. So if anything, I think the magic was directed at the world of Men and at the Hobbits. Saruman didn't have anything over the Elves and the Dwarven peoples weren't even in his radar.
-wtk

August 19, 2015, 05:43:51 PM
Reply #7

Durin's Heir

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #7 on: August 19, 2015, 05:43:51 PM »
Cool cards! I'll post a detailed review to each, but later.

I always thought Iron Axe should be bearable by a [Dunland] or [Isengard] Man. Given their low base strength, a weapon would have been the natural solution, and Banner of Isengard is of course insufficient. Perhaps this might help:

[1] Confiscated Sword [Isengard]
Possession • Hand Weapon
Strength +2
Bearer must be an [Isengard] Man.
While you can spot 3 Free Peoples cultures, bearer is damage +1.
Shadow: If stacked on an [Isengard] card, play this possession as if from hand.

The Shadow skill is there to give a new utility to Twisted Tales (and Library of Orthanc) by preserving your own weapons, specially after depleting all FP weapons.

But I would expect Grima to be far bolder when the fellowship fights amongst itself, so why shouldn't he gain strength for each condition; The principle is very similar to Gollum, Stinker.

If the goal of Such Malice is to make Grima stronger with the discordance amongst the Free Peoples, it should make Grima "strength +1 for each companion and ally bearing an [Isengard] condition". Otherwise he'd be a good fighter by only piling up 4x Desertion and 1x Weary on the same guy. And by spotting companions and not conditions, his strength will never be incoherently high.

Besides that, [Gandalf] spells and Wizard Staff should still be able to reduce an [Isengard] Man's strength, for lore's sake.

[1] •Such Malice [Isengard]
Condition • Support Area
Grima is strength +1 for each companion and ally bearing an [Isengard] condition.
Non- [Gandalf] cards cannot reduce the strength of [Isengard] Men or Wizards or [Isengard] Wizards.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 09:00:57 PM by Durin's Heir »
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August 20, 2015, 07:51:46 AM
Reply #8

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2015, 07:51:46 AM »
@Ket_The_Jet: You do make good points. But I'll carry on dreaming nonetheless :)

@Durin's Heir: I love the Confiscated Sword, I've always wondered why Twisted Tales could stack stuff but then never doing anything with it. I thought my wording for Such Malice would count every shadow card on every companion rather than the companion with the most conditions? How would you word it to achieve that effect? Regardless, I like your version better, as it gives even more incentive to spread the conditions out. Concerning the [Gandalf] line, I like the inclusion of Saruman in the picture, but shouldn't it say [Isengard] wizard? Otherwise Gandalf's strength can't be reduced by the conditions, which gives another dynamic like Throne of Isengard being a double-edged sword. Or was that the whole point?
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August 21, 2015, 08:54:50 PM
Reply #9

Durin's Heir

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #9 on: August 21, 2015, 08:54:50 PM »
I'm glad you like the sword ;).

You are right, your wording with Such Malice counts every [Isengard] condition on a companion, regardless of who bears more. But my point is that you can pile up many conditions on the same guy, and actually [Isengard] Men conditions don't have a limit so you can pile up to 4x on the same guy (Desertion, Banished, Leechcraft, Rohan is Mine, Wounded; there's also Many Riddles if you pack some Uruk Trackers; those are 6*4 = up to 24 conditions!), and that isn't in the line of "promoting discordance amongst the fellowship". So my idea was to spread the conditions to reflect that discordance.

How would you word it to achieve that effect?
Perhaps something like this: "Grima is strength +X, while X is the highest number of [Isengard] conditions borne by the same companion". That wording might be useful for a condition or event to support him. Or to support any [Isengard] Man of [Isengard] Wizard.

Concerning the [Gandalf] line, I like the inclusion of Saruman in the picture, but shouldn't it say [Isengard] wizard? Otherwise Gandalf's strength can't be reduced by the conditions, which gives another dynamic like Throne of Isengard being a double-edged sword. Or was that the whole point?
You are right, it should be "[Isengard] Wizard". Men Will Fall too wouldn't be able to reduce Gandhi's strength. No, that wasn't my intention. But Gandalf and the Ents should be able to counter Saruman, they were above the reach of his treachery. But the Throne of Isengard will still be a double-edged sword, as was meant to be from the beginning by Decipher itself.

I'd love to see some [Isengard] spell events portraying the Duel of Wizards at Orthanc. An [Isengard] event to reduce strength, called perhaps "telekinesis" or so, struggling with Gandalf's Servant of the Secret Fire...



[2] • An Already Troubled Mind, [Isengard]
Condition • Support Area
Each time you play an [Isengard] Man, add a threat. Each [Isengard] card that plays on a Free Peoples Man may be played on any companion (Except the Ring-Bearer).
"Late is the hour in which this conjurer chooses to appear. ‘Lathspell' I name him. Ill news is an ill guest.
Rare

I like this condition. [Isengard] Men jumping into the wagon of threats! :up: That will be very destructive given their exerting power. And the point of making [Isengard] conditions bearable by any race is pretty good, makes those otherwise meta-useless cards into factible tools to silence the annoying skills of Manager of Wizards, Lady Redeemed, Greenleaf... even Feared Axeman. But Ket is right when saying "Saruman didn't have anything over the Elves and the Dwarven peoples weren't even in his radar."

So to balance both things, I'd make Saruman strain a bit more to extend his arm towards the other races:

[2] An Already Troubled Mind [Isengard]
Condition • Support Area
Shadow: Play an [Isengard] Man to add a threat.
Shadow: Remove 2 threats to play an [Isengard] card that plays on a Free Peoples Man on any companion instead (except an Ent or the Ring-bearer).

If the first part is changed from passive to active, you can make this a non-unique condition as the effect won't accumulate (and will be much shorter by the way, which saves 1 card line if you ever turn these DCs into card images). Being non-unique, you don't need to worry so much about being discarded.

The second skill was too powerful without a cost IMO. To remove 2 threats can correct that problem, and by the way give use to threats in the [Isengard] Men subculture (alternatively, an exertion might do). The exceptions are the Ringbearer as you stated, and Ents given their remoteness to the affairs of power and the troubles of other races (and later their aversion to the "Tree-Killer" blocks any influence on them). Besides, blocking the use of the Assignment ability of Unhasty Ents ("discard 2 cards or exert an UB Hobbit...") will destroy them too easily, and their only condition removal in Movie Block (Crack Into Rubble) is insufficient at most.

Don't know if Leechcraft should act on non-RB Sam, preventing him from taking the Ring if Frodo dies. In respect of RB companions, there are only 3 Hobbits, Smeagol and a lot of Men. Men are Decipher's original target. So in case you change "on any companion instead (except the Ringbearer)" to "on any unbound companion", that leaves only Smeagol and 3 Hobbits as Ringbound companions that won't bear those conditions by any means.
« Last Edit: August 21, 2015, 09:04:31 PM by Durin's Heir »
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August 22, 2015, 06:15:43 PM
Reply #10

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #10 on: August 22, 2015, 06:15:43 PM »
[2] • The Palantír of Orthanc, Lost Seeing Stone [Isengard]
Artifact • Support Area
To play, spot 2 [Isengard] Men.
No more than 2 [Isengard] conditions may be discarded by a Free Peoples effect. Each Free Peoples card that discards one or more conditions gains this cost: "wound a companion."
"They are not all accounted for, the lost seeing stones. We do not know who else may be watching."
Rare
I like the inclusion of ways to protect conditions. Shadow conditions are easily wiped out after Towers Standard, and that reduces too much the viability of conditions that require time to work like Attack on Helm's Deep and Down to the Last Child. Also, almost each King Block site should be a battleground but Decipher didn't want us playing with card that we already had. Moreover, with Set 8 the power growth curve got totally disproportionate with cards like Siege Troop, Great Hill Troll, corsairs... All in all, Isengard got obsolete.

Thus, adding a mechanism to protect any [Isengard] condition (not only machines as Siege Engine) can righten Isengard's potential. But I don't think the Palantír of Orthanc should play that role. The Palantír was a device used to gain information, and that can be portrayed by means of drawing cards and revealing cards from hand or draw deck. Might increase the cost of FP events and conditions, add twilight, stack [Isengard] cards... But to protect conditions, I'd rather have some other condition involving Saruman's deception and illusions. Perhaps you like this one:

[2] The Voice of Saruman [Isengard]
Condition • Support Area
Spell. To play, exert Saruman.
At the start of each turn, add [1] for each Free Peoples culture you can spot.
Response: If an [Isengard] condition is about to be discarded by an opponent, remove [2] or discard this condition to prevent that.
"Suddenly another voice spoke, low and melodious..."

This card is very powerful, so exerts Saruman as playing cost (which also makes the follower version can't trigger it). The only viable [Isengard] cards that add twilight are Tower of Orthanc and Isengard Scimitar* and most [Isengard] shadows use too much twilight, so a mechanism like this comes in handy. The depiction is quite obvious: Saruman causes dissension amongst the Free Peoples and delays them with his rhetoric. And the response action can harvest that twilight, and even protect itself.

* the rest are Isengard Axe, Hollowing of Isengard, Isengard Forger, and perhaps Urgency, Demands of the Sackville-Bagginses and The Misadventure of Mr. Underhill.

The Palantír has too much potential... I'd leave it for other purposes. Something for the whole culture, instead of a given subculture.
« Last Edit: August 23, 2015, 07:44:59 PM by Durin's Heir »
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August 22, 2015, 10:04:54 PM
Reply #11

Durin's Heir

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #11 on: August 22, 2015, 10:04:54 PM »
[8] • Théoden, Corrupted King [Isengard]
Minion • Man
Strength: 15
Vitality: 1
Site Number: 3
To play, if you can spot Théoden, return him, and all cards on him, to their owner's hands. At the start of the maneuver phase, you may spot another [Isengard] Man to make this minion Fierce, Damage + 1 and unable to take wounds until the end of the turn.
"Why should I welcome you, Gandalf Stormcrow?"
Rare
I think this card is a bit too much. 15 strength, fierce, dmg +1 is much stronger than any version of Saruman himsef. Or Lurtz, oh my! As Not a Zombie said, he wasn't beating his people. But I like the inclusion of Théoden as a corrupted minion. :up: So please allow me to propose you this version:

[3] •Théoden Deceived, Under Saruman's Spell [Isengard]
Minion • Man
Strength: 6
Vitality: 3
Site Number: 3
Saruman and [Isengard] Men are strength +1 and may not take wounds in the archery phase.
Skirmish: Exert Théoden Deceived or Grima to cancel a skirmish involving an [Isengard] Man or [Isengard] Wizard.
"Why should I welcome you, Gandalf Stormcrow?"

To protect your Wizards and Men. That's all. At first stance was designed to portect Son of Galmod and make him viable. This one can coexist with a [Rohan] Théoden on the board, the same way as [Gandalf] Radagast and [Isengard] Radagast Deceived.

If Grima Son of Galmod is under the cross-hairs of the FP player's main tank to remove that annoying -1 strength, well, exert this Théoden (or Grima himself) to cancel his skirmish. Also Greenleaf won't touch him. Same with Unferth, your main exerting engine, whose presence in possible fierce skirmishes or after a double move will be crucial. And Saruman... Besides, everyone will skirmish much better with a general +1 strength bonus.

If a companion falls before Saruman's agents, threats provided by An Already Troubled Mind will trigger. So you won't need to have a single tank minion to kill the FP player's tank fighter, you will only need to exhaust them (with Unferth). And assault each weak flank in his/her fellowship, until somebody dies :twisted:. And Saruman (preferably SotE) + his Staff can make that first kill much easier.

What do you think?
« Last Edit: January 17, 2019, 01:08:09 PM by Durin's Heir »
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August 24, 2015, 03:25:24 AM
Reply #12

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #12 on: August 24, 2015, 03:25:24 AM »
Thanks so much for the detailed feedback :) Regarding the first post, I agree with you on all points, except I'm a little undecided about the ents. In the book, didn't Treebeard eventually let Saruman go, which is how he started wreaking havoc in the Shire? That would mean that Saruman at least, could still affect the ents with his voice. You make a good point with Unhasty though, although if they have Gandalf they'll probably be alright. Don't forget they have BoT too, you reminded me of that on my WraithEnts deck. Don't know about Sam either, but I kinda like the idea of immobilising him, reminds me of Helpless. But it's true that hobbits also lack condition discard. 2 threats is a good cost, I prefer it to an exertion because a lot of [Isengard] men conditions require exertions already.

You make a great point about the Palantir, I chose it because Artifacts are so hard to discard, and I don't really see it played much except to annoy the opponent, but your condition works better. Should it be unique though? Because otherwise you will generate a ton of twilight with a self-protecting condition. I agree making it only for [Isengard] men was too strict as well, I'm a bit paranoid about creating splash cards after Decipher's Enquea and Grimas (I dislike such cards thematically).

I love the reference to the deceived wizards here, and I think this is another really cool card. This minion would cripple double moving, as he shields pretty much all your men when played. But maneuver wounding could still take care of him, so I don't he's unbalanced. You just reminded me with the use of that Deceived word: Such Malice's:  "Non- Gandalf cards cannot reduce the strength of [Isengard] Men or [Isengard] Wizards." - I hadn't realised that this would protect Deceived Wizards from overwhelm killing too, which is another nice addition.
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September 18, 2015, 03:43:11 PM
Reply #13

Durin's Heir

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #13 on: September 18, 2015, 03:43:11 PM »
It's been a good while, sorry for this delay :(.

Treebeard was affected by Saruman's voice, but not by Saruman's men. A line saying "Characters bearing [Isengard] cards lose unhasty" can solve this point. Yes, I forgot about BoT, but anyway it's best trigger is the assignment ability of Ents, thus Leechcraft would block most of BoT's usefulness. Also, Isen Men play a ton of conditions so it's not a match for them, and the FP player can't choose what card will be discarded. Therefore, either Ents shouldn't bear those cards, or a short line like the above mentioned should be added.
About Sam, he accompanies Frodo to Mordor and doesn't get close to Isengard/Rohan, that's why I think it's not lore-consistent to target also Ring-bound comps. Faramir & Co are men so they don't need An Already Troubled Mind to bear those [Isengard] conditions. It's your decision anyway, I just offer my point of view but don't want to push you ;).

2 threats = play 2 men with An Already Troubled Mind. An exertion is a good cost too, allows you to play more conditions with few men but exposes them to maneuver and archery wounds. Théoden Deceived helps in archery though.

Théoden Deceived can be countered also by Regroup discarding (Task Was Not Done, Gil-Galad EHK, Ever the Hope of Men...) or Regroup wounding for a double move. Yes, Such Malice prevents Deceived Wizards from being killed by Forearmed. A simple Elf, even a strong Noldorin of the First Age shouldn't be able to easily defeat a Maia in a fight.


About The Voice Of Saruman, that card is an expensive investment: you need [5] or [6] to play Saruman + Voice (or more if Saruman is roaming or Legolas DH is present); then it starts adding twilight. It's absolutely NOT splashable, and is somewhat difficult to play 2 or more at once. It's OK to change it to unique, but then should cost (0); then must be playable at the very start, at the late game the twilight addition is totally useless.

I'd like to see a Palantír of Orthanc of your craft, for the whole culture ;).


The only card I've not yet reviewed is Rohirrim Spy. I like it! Not splashable and allows you to play the right condition at the right moment. But IMO shouldn't play artifacts, only conditions and perhaps Saruman too. There's a book quote I found that might match this nice card:
"'Trust not to secret ways,' said the king. 'Saruman has long spied out this land. Still in that place our defence may last long.'"

I've been working on some cards for [Isengard] Wizards. I'll try to post them in the following days, perhaps you like them.
« Last Edit: September 18, 2015, 08:23:04 PM by Durin's Heir »
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September 23, 2015, 08:59:59 AM
Reply #14

Dictionary

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #14 on: September 23, 2015, 08:59:59 AM »
I like that line about unhasty, since it will in a certain way make ents stronger initially, representing their resilience, and forcing the shadow player to be more strategic. I think I had missed the 2 twilight cost with Voice of Saruman, it does sound quite tricky to get multiples out bearing that in mind. But even then, 2 or 3 culture fellowships will suffer against multiple copies of this, particularly if you have other stuff to take advantage of the extra twilight (Uruk-hai Rampage). And it could be splashed with a splashed Saruman, I don't generally find 2-card combos that difficult to draw (Although Saruman himself wouldn't be doing much, so perhaps it's not worth it.) If it were unique with cost 0, the Spy could help play it from deck, but of course you'd still need Saruman himself. So I'm kinda torn between the two options :-k

I'll have to give it some thought, capturing the concept of the Palantir is hard, and I'm not a fan of either one of Decipher's [Isengard] palantirs.

That is a very nice quote for the Spy, I'll add it to the original :up:

I'd love to see some stuff for [Isengard] wizards, I found the concept of the Deceived Wizards very interesting :)
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September 23, 2015, 10:39:08 AM
Reply #15

ket_the_jet

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #15 on: September 23, 2015, 10:39:08 AM »
(0) • The Palantir of Orthanc, Stone of Power
Shadow: Play Saruman and reveal X cards from hand to reveal X cards from the Free People player's hand. You may exert Saruman twice to discard one card revealed.

Cheers,
-wtk
« Last Edit: September 23, 2015, 06:30:03 PM by ket_the_jet »

January 01, 2016, 01:14:54 PM
Reply #16

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #16 on: January 01, 2016, 01:14:54 PM »
Sorry for the long delay on this thread. I do like Ket_the_Jet's Palantir, it captures quite well the theme of Decipher's Palantirs - manipulating the Free Peoples Player's hand. I've recently been trying to think of something unorthodox for the Palantir, what about the following?

[3] (•)The Palantir of Orthanc, Lost Seeing Stone [Isengard]
Artifact
Plays to your support area.
Shadow: Spot Saruman to transfer this artifact to him.
Each time Saruman loses a skirmish, you may transfer this artifact from Saruman to a character he is skirmishing.
While bearer is Saruman, he is Vitality + 1. While bearer is any other character, he or she is Strength - 2 and Vitality - 1
Rare

So the theme here is the fact that Saruman lost possession of the Palantir when defeated (i.e the companions got it), but being a dangerous artifact, it has a debilitating effect on whoever bears it. I considered making some characters such as Aragorn immune to its effects, but I fear it would weaken the card too much.

Mechanically speaking, the Palantir is useful for Saruman users because the only way to avoid it is to lose to a Saruman bearing a staff, which can be damaging for a Free Peoples. On the other hand, it helps make up for the fact that Saruman will almost certainly lose to characters like Durin III, Cirdan etc. in Movie Block, but with this card on the table, it makes up for it a bit. It's also hard to get rid of, being an artifact, but also unique, so only one companion would get this affliction. The extra hitpoint could also help Servant of the Eye (Or any Saruman) with his exert-to-trigger ability.
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January 03, 2016, 04:12:40 PM
Reply #17

ket_the_jet

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #17 on: January 03, 2016, 04:12:40 PM »
I like the idea of a Palantir that is borne by a character, though I don't necessarily like the idea of it altering vitality or being moved around to companions [after all, Saruman wasn't giving the Palantir away].

That said, and this is sloppy, what about this thought?

To play, spot a Wizard. Plays to your support area.
Response: If a skirmish event is played, exert a character with 5 or more vitality (except the Ring-bearer) twice to cancel that effect.

I don't know if that covers a card that both sides can play the response to or if 5 vitality is too much, but the idea is that Saruman and his staff, Gandalf with his staff or ring, or Aragorn with Anduril can harness the Palantir to 'foresee' an event before it happens.

Feel free to edit thought to make it work, if you like it.
-wtk

January 05, 2016, 05:12:56 PM
Reply #18

Dictionary

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #18 on: January 05, 2016, 05:12:56 PM »
I do like that idea, although I'm not sure if it should work with vitality, since some versions of Trolls (Or Shelob) could use it to cancel events. Maybe I'm overcomplicating it, but:

[1] •The Palantir of Orthanc, Lost Seeing Stone [Isengard]
Artifact
Plays to your support area.
Response: If a Free Peoples skirmish event is played, any shadow player may exert their Wizard or Maia twice to cancel that effect (Or make their wizard strength - 2 until the Regroup phase if it is also a condition).
Response: If a Shadow skirmish event is played, the Free Peoples player may exert their Wizard (Or an unbound companion with resistance 8 or more) twice to cancel that effect.
Rare

This works off Sauron, Saruman and Deceived Wizards for the Shadow player(S), and high resistance guys (Or Gandalf/Radagast) for the Free Peoples player. By its wording, the Gandalf RB can also cancel events. What do you think?

EDIT: Realised that this is meant to be a Movie Block card, so I guess that makes my version kinda irrelevant...
« Last Edit: January 05, 2016, 05:15:44 PM by Dictionary »
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January 05, 2016, 06:09:21 PM
Reply #19

Durin's Heir

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #19 on: January 05, 2016, 06:09:21 PM »
My first post in a long time... I've been very busy and tired lately :(.

I like Ket's first Palantir. It's cool for the flavor to reveal X own cards and X opponent's cards; discarding is even better. Messing with the moves of the Free Peoples was one of the main uses Saruman gave to the Orthanc-stone. :up:

But the others don't convince me really. The transferrable one has the problem that Saruman didn't want to lose it by any means, even less to Gandalf (Grima got a chilling scold for that strumble). The "2-edged, event-cancelling" stone has a cool idea, but lacks a proper form and flavor; I'd try with something like this:

(0) •The Palantír of Orthanc, Stolen Heirloom [Isengard]
Artifact • Palantír
Plays to your support area.
Each time a non-stealth event is played, you may spot an [Isengard] Wizard to add [2].
Aragorn, Denethor and each Wizard gain this ability:
"Response: If a skirmish event is played, exert this character twice to cancel it."

Wizards = Gandalf, Radagast and Saruman. Aragorn and Denethor were rightful users of the Gondorian stones (as heirs of Anarion's authority; that's stated in the Unfinished Tales). Sauron shouldn't use that particular stone but only the Ithil Stone (and some [Sauron] cards might play with the "palantir" item class/unloaded keyword, with tricks like "spot X palantíri to add [X] and X threats" or so).

That leaves a total of 4 FP fellows and a single bad guy. But companions must beware of exertions, while minions don't care too much about that (and minion versions of the 3 Deceived Wizards can be created; I made 1 of each and will try to post soon :twisted:).

Hope you like it.
« Last Edit: January 06, 2016, 05:38:31 PM by Durin's Heir »
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January 06, 2016, 05:38:02 PM
Reply #20

Durin's Heir

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #20 on: January 06, 2016, 05:38:02 PM »
Here I post the first Deceived Wizard minion, Radagast Deceived:

[4]Radagast Deceived, Naive Messenger [Isengard]
Minion • Wizard
Strength: 8
Vitality: 4
Site Number: 3
To play, spot a Wizard or discard an [Isengard] condition.
Each character skirmishing an [Isengard] Wizard loses all strength bonuses from weapons.
Assignment: Heal an unbound companion to make the Free Peoples player assign him or her to an [Isengard] Wizard or add 2 threats.

This minion shares the same card title as the condition, so you can't have both on the board. But the playing cost allows you to discard the condition version (if you have it in play) just before playing this minion, just like [Gandalf] Recovered Seeing Stone does with [Isengard] The Palantir of Orthanc. Alatar Deceived and Pallando Deceived will share this playing cost trick.


The twilight cost and the site number are very low, but don't forget about the "to play" cost; he simply can't be splashed. His strength is a bit low, but the Throne of Isengard (and Staff of Saruman) corrects that, and having an additional [Isengard] Wizard to play tricks can be extremely useful.

The assignment skill heals ("assists") an unbound companion to mislead him/her towards an evil Wizard; the FP player may add 2 threats instead ("ignoring the urgency of the call", until it cannot simply be ignored). Healing someone to assign him/her can seem counterproductive, but with the Throne of Isengard in play the damage bonus will compensate that. And forcing a strong defender of your choice to fight a Wizard will clear the path for any other minion, let's say Sauron or The Balrog, to be confronted by smaller defenders. Cirdan? Gandalf's Staff? Eowyn LoI? Mablung?...

The passive sentence is there mainly to represent companions going unarmed towards what they think is a friend and counsellor. That gives better chances of winning those direct-assigned skirmishes, with or without the Throne.


I added no lore text because there's no room for it, if this "text card" is ever turned into a "graphical card" (the usual 7 lines of Decipher's cards are already saturated). That's a "bad habit" I got when working with Enola in his Hobbit Draft Game... but I think it's much better that way: too long texts lose a lot of flavor and strategic appeal; years ago, a guy in this forum said "simplicity is sexy" and I have to agree.

Again, hope you like it.
« Last Edit: November 18, 2017, 07:20:02 PM by Durin's Heir »
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January 07, 2016, 09:33:55 AM
Reply #21

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #21 on: January 07, 2016, 09:33:55 AM »
I really love the Radagast Deceived, good job! ;D I think the theme and abilities are perfect, and I think that even on his own he adds a lot of new flavour and strategy to Wizard decks. After all, Radagast Deceived (The condition) is by far the least useful of the 3 condition wizards, requring first an exertion/wound on Saruman and then a heal (Unless the Free Peoples player has Wizards), and even then will generally do less damage than Pallando and Alatar. The fact that he needs a heal forces most players to use Agent of the Dark Lord and Defensive Rush, which is the best healing combo I know for Saruman (If you know any other good ones, please let me know :))

I must say that I'd be tempted to use your version of Radagast all the time, as combining him with the Throne gives him good stats and he serves as another trigger for the other two condition wizards (Although I haven't seen their minion versions yet), although some expendable [Isengard] conditions would be needed. I like that he encourages the player to use a [Isengard] Saruman (Such as Of Many Colours) by ignoring weapon bonuses for [Isengard] wizards, as my usual issue with Of Many Colours is too little strength. I also think he opens up options for other versions of Saruman, such as Coldly Still, who would no longer need to worry about healing.

Also, regarding the "to play, spot a wizard" - so he can spot Gandalf or FP Radagast right? I like that this fits into the theme of spotting wizards on both sides, but I would of thought it might make him a little splashable, since many decks have either Gandalf or often a splashed Radagast for movement. Dunno if that would really be a problem though, since he's not that strong without the throne, and if the throne is played, it would benefit those wizards too.

All in all, great idea! I find it hard to judge whether or not it's overpowered just by looking at it, but as far as I can tell he seems okay. I like the Palantir too, it helps Saruman's Power in particular, as well as other expensive [Isengard] events. It also helps the shadow player to dodge Free Peoples skirmish events whilst not actually putting any shadow skirmish events in his own deck ;)
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March 27, 2016, 10:08:07 AM
Reply #22

Floydos

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #22 on: March 27, 2016, 10:08:07 AM »
According to that discussion about  [Isengard] Thédoen my opinion is:

 [2] •Théoden decieved, Saruman´s Puppet  [Isengard]
Minion • Man
Strenght: 6
Vitality: 2
Site number: 3
Théoden cannot be assigned to the skirmishes by any player.
To play spot  [Isengard] Saruman or  [Isengard] Grima.
Skirmish: Exert Théoden decieved to cancel all gametext of the  [Rohan] man untill the regroup phase.

 [1] Grima´s whispering  [Isengard]
Event
Shadow: Spot  [Isengard] Saruman to cancel the first sentence of the Théoden decieved, Théoden decieved gain str +2 and fierce untill the regroup phase.

 [1] Old and Tired  [Isengard]
Condition
To play spot a  [Isengard] man, plays on the FP Théoden
Each time is FP possession played on the Théoden, you may play  [Isengard] Saruman from discard pile to cancel that. Discard this condition.
FP may exert Gandalf twice to cancel that.

April 15, 2016, 07:41:55 PM
Reply #23

Durin's Heir

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Re: Isengard Men... and Wizards
« Reply #23 on: April 15, 2016, 07:41:55 PM »
- @Dictionary: My friend, your response was very nice, I'm sorry to answer so lately. When developing a DC my idea is always to fit the lore first, then fit the current format rules and keywords, then try to innovate the gameplay.

Negating strength from weapons will render weak many tank guys (like Elendil), while making others much easier to defeat (like Éomer or Gimli). The assignment skill can replace Saruman SotE (so you can use another Saruman), or even synergize with it to assure a specific unbound guy will face your wizard's malice. Combined with strength reduction (Men Will Fall), Of Many Colours will have better chances not only to survive but also to kill companions with one strike. It has counters however: The Voice of Saruman will now protect the Deceived Wizard conditions, which then will stay on the board unlike the minion versions.

You guessed right, these Deceived Wizard minions will often require [Isengard] conditions to discard (although this [Isengard] Radagast can spot a good wizard). So they will force you to pack expendable conditions, the best of them being Saruman's Ambition (costs (0), no spotting requirements and cheapens your [Isengard] events). That seems like a disadvantage, but looks are deceiving: the minion Alatar and Pallando will orbit around that card! I'll try to post them soon, they work by replaying and discarding [Isengard] events and [Isengard] conditions...

About the Palantír, it helps also with event heavy [Isengard] decks. ARfM and other [Isengard] shadow phase events will be adding twilight to play more minions/tricks, while the twilight made by events of other phases (yours or not) will serve other purposes (like Uruk-Hai Rampage). I'll post some shadow phase [Isengard] events to help the evil Wizards, so the Palantír will get more importance than what seems to have.


- @Floydos's additions are very good, regardless of his recurrent miswritings (but this is not the Oxford English Dictionary fanpage ;)). Those cards look great as counters to a specific culture, the way Decipher designed Curse From Mordor, Memory of Many Things or Goblin Warrior. That can be changed to be more general... or not. Specific counters work well to balance the meta. If the idea is to make them more general, I'd do this:

[1] Grima's Whispering  [Isengard]
Event • Shadow
Spot [Isengard] Saruman or Grima to make an [Isengard] Man strength +2 and fierce (and you may cancel the first sentence of his game text if is Théoden Deceived) until the regroup phase.

A generic but predictable pump for [Isengard] Men, which also unleashes Théoden Deceived if he's the target. As said before, being a shadow phase event allows the Palantír to add twilight ;).

[2] Old and Tired  [Isengard]
Condition
Strength -1
To play, exert an [Isengard] Man. Plays on a Free Peoples man.
Response: If a possession is played on bearer, play a Wizard from your discard pile (and discard that possession if bearer is Théoden); Gandalf may exert twice instead. Discard this condition.

For anyone but works better on Théoden (An Already Troubled Mind can play this on any unbound companion, so only a FP man is a mere formality). Also reduces 1 strength now. Cost raised to [2] and an exertion to prevent stacking many copies at once on the same companion.


Saruman's Puppet should have a higher vitality, and a line to protect [Isengard] men from archery (but different from the first line that prevents him from figthing). But seems very nice anyways. I'd change the skirmish skill to negate the text of any FP man, an non- [Rohan] men might exert to prevent that.

[2] •Théoden Deceived, Saruman's Puppet  [Isengard]
Minion • Man
Strenght: 6
Vitality: 3
Site number: 3
To play spot Saruman or Grima.
Théoden cannot be assigned to skirmishes by any player.
[Isengard] Men cannot take archery wounds.
Skirmish: Exert Théoden Deceived to cancel all gametext of a man until the regroup phase. That man can exert (if isn't [Rohan] man) to prevent that.

So we would have 2 different versions of Théoden Deceived.
« Last Edit: April 15, 2016, 08:03:03 PM by Durin's Heir »
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April 15, 2016, 08:34:42 PM
Reply #24

Durin's Heir

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Re: Isengard Men... and Wizards
« Reply #24 on: April 15, 2016, 08:34:42 PM »
I'll post 3 cards before posting the other Deceived Wizards.

With all the dependance on conditions and artifacts, this new Saruman [Isengard] subcultures (Wizards and Men) will need cards to fetch the key cards from the start. Those should be Saruman-related cards of course. So here I post 1 new version of Saruman to get your support cards, and 2 events to get Saruman ASAP (the way Gollum does):

[5]Saruman, Master of Ring-lore [Isengard]
Minion • Wizard
Strength: 8 7
Vitality: 4
Site Number: 3
Saruman is strength +1 for each artifact you can spot (limit +4 +5).
Shadow: Exert Saruman to play an [Isengard] condition or artifact from your draw deck.
"'His knowledge is deep... The lore of the Elven-rings, great and small, is his province. He has long studied it, seeking the lost secrets of their making.'"

This Saruman allows you to pull your conditions and artifacts. His cost is higher, but the Site Number compensates it a bit (the library of Rivendell is at site 3, right? :lol:). And gets stronger with each artifact (FP or Shadow, he studied both!), which is something to consider. Now, his main fighting tricks are artifacts, so with only Saruman's Staff + Throne of Isengard and no other artifact he'll be strength 15 dmg+2 fierce (but that requires a good lot of twilight).

Obviously this is made to play The Voice of Saruman, as many copies as you can, and the Palantír at site 2 (with those you start harvesting twilight). And if possible, the Throne too.


[1] Only A Change Of Means [Isengard]
Event • Shadow
Play Saruman from your draw deck or discard pile and spot X up to 3 threats and burdens to take X the same number of [Isengard] cards from your discard pile into your hand.
"'We can keep our thoughts in our hearts, deploring maybe evils done by the way, but approving the high and ultimate purpose: Knowledge, Rule, Order.'"

This is meant to: 1) allow you to build Saruman-centered decks by making him present at every site (like Captured By The Ring or We Must Have It), 2) retrieve discarded [Isengard] cards so you can strike again (Cruel Caradhras? Men Will Fall? Decevide Wizard minions?) or rebuild your strategy. It spots threats and burdens ("Gandalf's worry and concern" while imprisoned) to get those [Isengard] cards back, so you'll need a way to get threats/burdens to maximize its effect. Worry and Cruel Caradhras will get you burdens, while An Already Troubled Mind or Radagast Deceived (the minion) will get you easy threats.

With a way of pulling Saruman in each site, you can pack different versions of Saruman to use the one that suits better the circumstances (as Gollum players do). So you'll pack (4x of this event and) 1x Master of Ring-lore to play him at the start and set up your key conditions and artifacts, and later you can pull another version depending on your needs. Please note that it requires to play Saruman and not to spot him (like So Polite), that prevents loops in the same Shadow phase.


[1] Deep In Their Counsels [Isengard]
Event • Shadow
Spot Saruman (or play from him your draw deck or discard pile) to reveal the Free Peoples player's hand. Add [1] or draw a card for each Free Peoples card revealed. Add [2] or draw 2 cards if you reveal a Free Peoples card.
"Galdor of the Havens, who sat near by, overheard him. 'You speak for me also... What of Saruman? He is learned in the lore of the Rings, yet he is not among us...'"

The counterpart of Treachery Deeper Than You Know, another event to play Saruman but this one is meant to add twilight or draw cards while looking at the FP player's plans. With the Palantír of Orthanc, you'll add [2] each time you play any of these events (and Saruman's Ambition will make them cheaper). Twilight has always been the worst issue regarding Isengard.


These 3 (+ Palantír and Voice) should provide a strong base on which build the rest of the subculture...
« Last Edit: November 02, 2017, 09:24:50 PM by Durin's Heir »
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April 17, 2016, 09:19:21 AM
Reply #25

Floydos

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #25 on: April 17, 2016, 09:19:21 AM »
@Durin: Yes. I have problems with the correct wording :-) If you want, I can create "cards".

Btw.: Can you be that nice and check and correct wording in my topic "expanded Southron strategies", please? I would be very grateful.

Abaddon

April 25, 2016, 09:12:42 AM
Reply #26

Dictionary

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #26 on: April 25, 2016, 09:12:42 AM »
@Durin's Heir: Better late than never! I'm happy to see more of your ideas for the [Isengard] culture.

I like Master of Ring-Lore. I know the cost is already one higher, but I wonder if his base strength should be one less, similar to Friend of the Shirefolk? He'll still have much higher strength than average in the long run, especially since a) he can spot Free Peoples artifacts and b) artifacts are very hard to discard. The limit of 4 is cool too, as there are exactly 4 [Isengard] artifacts (Throne, Palantir, Staff, Library). That said, I might be tempted to splash Throne of the Dark Lord if I weren't relying on staffs.

I'm hazy about Only a Change of Means, it looks like it could be too powerful. After all, getting a few burdens and threats out is not very difficult (Players could just splash Eternally Threatening) so this card could be retrieving anything from 2 to 8 cards to the Shadow Player's hand. Maybe a limit would help with this? Or maybe it could be for each 2 threats and/or burdens? I like that it plays Saruman too, and that it can retrieve his staff, which adds value to the earlier versions of him.

Deep in their Counsels is cool, again I feel like a limit might be needed, otherwise a player could grab all 4 copies of this event per one copy of Only a Change of Means (Which can recycle other copies of itself) and then draw potentially a dozen or so cards against a player holding a few Free Peoples events.

To conclude, I really like the cards :) I'd say I'm most worried about Only a Change of Means, because discard recycling is where most of Expanded's borderline loops occur (Goblin Hordes, Beorning Axe). What do you think?

I also like Floydos' additions. I think that thematically they work well, and I believe the suggestions by Durin's Heir increase their versatility.
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May 04, 2016, 01:44:10 PM
Reply #27

Durin's Heir

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #27 on: May 04, 2016, 01:44:10 PM »
- @Floydos: Sure! I'll be working on that. But please have some patience, I've been really busy and will have little time in the coming days. Your card images and new tactics look very nice! :up:



- @Dictionary: Really thanks for your kind support ;D! Those were gathering dust duting months, just didn't have the time or mood to post them. There's more to come.

You are right about Only a Change of Means and Deep in their Counsels. The first was meant mainly to allow his staff to aid him anytime... I think it will need a limit around 3 (to be akin ARfM); threats depend on your opponent's fellowship (Solo Smeagol >:(), and can be removed somewhat easily (Hearts Raised or Thrarin DS), so depending on 2 threats/burdens to recover a single card can be really crippling. Another detail about Only a Change of Means is that it triggers Betrayal of Isengard (just like ARfM), so [Isengard] card recovering has a natural lore-consistent enemy.

"Play Saruman from your draw deck or discard pile and spot up to 3 threats and burdens to take the same number of [Isengard] cards from your discard pile into hand."

Deep in their Counsels requires Saruman, which means 3 to 5 twilight (+2 if roaming). I agree that it needs a limit, but recovering his own twilight cost seems fair (and the change above limits this card's potential too). The new Palantír can add twilight too, so I fix the number of cards drawn or twilight added to 2, if you spot a Free Peoples card:

"Spot Saruman (or play from him your draw deck or discard pile) to reveal the Free Peoples player's hand. Add [2] or draw 2 cards if you reveal a Free Peoples card."


I like your suggestion about Master of Ring-lore, he can be strength 7 but then the limit would be +5 strength. Besides, there's another [Isengard] artifact he will use... what's the point of spending so many ages in Ring-lore study, if you cannot forge your own Ring? ;)

(0)Saruman's Ring, Carefully Crafted [Isengard]
Artifact • Ring
Vitality +1
Plays on Saruman. He is lurker and fierce.
Maneuver or Skirmish: Remove [2] or a threat to heal an [Isengard] minion.
Shadow: Exert your Wizard twice to add a threat or add an [Isengard] token on a condition.
"'But I rode to the foot of Orthanc, and came to the stair of Saruman... He wore a ring on his finger.'"

So you can exert Saruman 4 times to control a site with Down To The Last Child (without packing any Uruk). Or add threats to use with Only a Change of Means (at the early game, you fetch 1st Master of Ring-lore, play from deck this Ring and Staff, add threats and then Only a Change of Means will be recovering those tools with any version of Saruman you feel like playing ;)).

The healing skill recycles Uruk Shaman's, but is wider as it helps any [Isengard] minion like Grima or a self-exhausted Saruman SotE, works also at skirmish, and can rely on threats besides twilight. As you will certainly notice, healing at maneuver helps to trigger the Radagast Deceived condition before the assignment phase, and makes triggering Pallando Deceived much less costly ;).

Berserk Slayer et al will have more tokens and better healing to tear defenders apart. Warg-riders too will have healing, to keep Foul Horde's damage +1 going, and the skirmish-ability cancelling too (with the new Palantír stopping their events)...
« Last Edit: May 04, 2016, 01:52:25 PM by Durin's Heir »
“If you're not careful, the newspapers will have you hating the people who are being oppressed, and loving the people who are doing the oppressing.”  - Malcolm X

May 05, 2016, 06:37:51 AM
Reply #28

Floydos

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #28 on: May 05, 2016, 06:37:51 AM »
Oh, I just got an idea. To represent capturing Gandalf during his arriving into the Isengard by Saruman I got an idea about a card:

 [4] •Orthank prison  [Isengard]
Condition
To play spot Saruman.
Plays to support area.
Each time Free peoples player plays a event that require spot Gandalf, you may exert Saruman to stack that event here (limit 1 card). Each time Free peoples player will play copy of event stacked here, he must exert Gandalf to play it.

Or
Each free peoples plays event that requires to spot a Gandalf you may exert a Gandalf.

May 07, 2016, 09:44:42 AM
Reply #29

Dictionary

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #29 on: May 07, 2016, 09:44:42 AM »
@Durin's Heir: You make good points. I like the revised versions of the cards :up:

Saruman's Ring is a great idea! Carefully Crafted is a fitting subtitle too. Considering the number of Rings done by Decipher, I find it strange that they missed that one, as it may well have had some lesser powers to aid its bearer (Although I'm speculating a bit there).

Despite being a [Isengard] card, I'm intrigued by the ability to give any Saruman Lurker. I'm sure that must open up some good combos, particularly for Coldly Still, as it lets him benefit from [Men] cards like Armored Easterling and prevents the Free Peoples player from killing him immediately. Curunir would also benefit, as he's quite weak without Lurker. Fierce is good too, means Saruman can use Throne of Isengard's boon on another minion.

The text abilities on the card are also pretty cool. Access to healing would help a lot in Expanded with there being so many wounding decks (Counteracts Powerful Guide and Last Ruling Steward), and healing Foul Horde also helps its ambush, which in turn makes more twilight for the ring.

Extra vitality is great for Agent of the Dark Lord too, he'd have 7 vitality with Isengard Siege Bow + Staff of Saruman + Saruman's Ring :twisted:

@Floydos: Interesting card, it kinda reminds me of the Southron card Wrath of Harad. Maybe you could word it like this:

[4] •Orthanc Prison [Isengard]
Condition
To play spot Saruman.
Plays to your support area.
Each [Gandalf] Spell gains this cost: "Exert a [Gandalf] Wizard."

Expensive, but a nice anti Gandalf card, particularly against Powerful Guide, although he might discard it pretty quickly with stuff like Pallando. Perhaps it could be a possession? That would, as a general rule, give it more durability, which it's going to need if it costs 4, is unique and has to spot Saruman.
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May 09, 2016, 04:30:31 AM
Reply #30

Floydos

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #30 on: May 09, 2016, 04:30:31 AM »
@Dictionary:

Yes, possession would be ok, or artefact.

May 09, 2016, 04:32:53 AM
Reply #31

Floydos

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Re: Isengard Men
« Reply #31 on: May 09, 2016, 04:32:53 AM »
Maybe another card:

 [1] The Treachery of Saruman  [Isengard]
Event
Each time  [Gandalf] Wizzard loses skirmish, you may spot Saruman or 2 [Isengard] Men to discard all attached followers to him.