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Cleston
Posted: Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:32 pm
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 110 Location: Brasil
--- description ---
In-depth analysis of the feared Lurker Swarm deck, before and after the release of LOTR TCG: Bloodlines.
--- end description ---

Hi all!

As I told you in my last article, today I was up to the new Rohan stuff.

I was.

Then I saw the following card spoiled:

10 - Mountain Troll
22 strength
6 vitality
5 site

When you play this minion, you may discard 5 Orc minions from play to make it twilight -10 and fierce.
Shadow: Remove 3 to play an Orc Orc from your discard pile. Its twilight cost is -2.

"Thrice the great ram boomed. And suddenly on the last stroke the Gate of Gondor broke".


WOW.......... possibilities go round and around... my Lurker Swarm deck.... WOOOOW.... Very Happy

So, as my first intention here is to learn to be a good article writer, and to achieve this I feel like sharing my feelings about the game with you, I cannot write about Rohan while thinking about Orc Orcs and Trolls... Sorry, maybe next time, okay?

In this article, we’re going to take a closer look at a deck building process. While many of you will find it repetitive, some of you may find it new, and some of you will disagree. I’ll love to see your arguments after this post, as I hope people disagree with me and together we’ll be able to discuss onto a better built.

So, this is our little schedule for this article:
a) Pre-Bloodlines Lurker Swarm
b) Bloodlines cards to go in this deck
c) Ins and Outs
d) Final Checking
e) Hunters Speculation


Here we go, then:
a) Pre-Bloodlines Lurker Swarm

Why pre-Bloodlines you ask me? Well, my standard game did not face any bloodlines yet. The only cards I have from this set are those Conor very kindly sent me for one of his contests a while ago. My retailer hasn’t got that much luck to bring some boxes around here, yes, that’s pretty bad, but let’s just go along, okay?

So, this deck type came to being with Black Rider, since Rallying Orc, precisely. The tech of playing minions while adding pool while spreading exertions through your opponent’s fellowship has proven to be very effective as a swarm and beatdown strategy. Sometimes you may want to push swarms, others you will want the beatdown. Either way you go, this deck is cool to play and effective in tournaments.

Let’s take a look at my last approach to it:

Goblin Hordes x4
Demoralized x4
Great Cost
Cave Troll’s Hammer, Unwieldy Cudgel x2
Cave Troll of Moria, Savage Menace x2
Beastly Olog-Hai
Rallying Orc x3
Orc Smith x2
Troll’s Keyward, Keeper of the Beast
Orc Skulker x4
Prowling Orc x4
Orc Strategist x4
Emboldened Orc
Grima, Wormtongue
Total: 34

I pair this with Saved from the Fire Gondor. It filters very nicely, and it is a tank to stop. Very solid, but this is not the case here, this is an article about how we’re going to bring this deck to Bloodlines environment. Which cards should I buy from Cobracards? Very Happy

9 Conditions is pretty nice for this deck, we can’t have less and we don’t want much more for now. Great Cost is so tech in this deck that I really would like to have two copies.

There are 2 Possessions, being the two Hammers, which I must confess I’m not that proud of using for more time. I’m willing to remove it, since it sometimes has absolutely no effect, as my opponent will be dead for the swarm if I can manage to play 6 or 7 lurkers. Less than that, either I’ll have no pool or no real use for it. Some of you will say this is a MUST have card, but my experience with this deck has shown me that I must go find something else to fill these 2 slots.

3 Trolls feel nice for now, since Goblin Hordes can go recurring them, and the Cave Troll is unique. Bloodlines will give us options, so we must keep eyes opened here.

2 non-Lurker orcs, those being the Orc Smiths, who can bring conditions back. If I could, I’d play 3, but we’ll probably want to drop one of those for more lurker madness.

Grima Wormtongue is rotating out, which is a shame IMHO. He has helped my very much against annoying Éomers and Durins. I’m sad you go, sneaky friend.

Okay, this is the shadow, it works pretty fine for me, I’ve got great tournament results with these, but sometimes it just won’t work. Sometimes I must rely on my fellowship for the win, and the only time I made my fellowship destroy itself I lost badly. That’d make a nice article, but not today, okay? I promise I’ll write about such a bad decision some other time. For now, those still with me will take a walk through Bloodlines’ Orc Culture.

b) Bloodlines cards to go in this deck

Let’s take a look at the star cards and the lurker dudes available here. Conor asked me for no links, and I won’t want to write down each single card, so I recommend you to open up another window and go see the Orc cards in Bloodlines available for sale.

Always Threatening: conditions? Nice, but this deck wants minions. Not a bad card at all, but it deserves its own deck.

Chamber Patrol: nice, let’s keep an eye on it, especially for its third region ability. While not really in theme, very powerful.

Enemy Upon Enemy: quite in theme card, and more hand extension. Too bad we don’t deal with burdens…. Yet… Hehe, kidding here!

Forced March: too bad that card is sold out (heard it Conor? Please, help me!!! Crying or Very sad ). Everybody knows this card is awesome, and everybody will want it into my deck. Me too, really, but I’ll try to be creative here, and making a forced march deck isn’t really my approach to creativity.

Howling Orc: nice 3 costed dude. If we cut off the 2 costed minions this would be a nice option to go along the other 3 costed ones. Keep track of him.

Massing Strength: the card Stupid-Swarms players have always hoped for has finally come. Too bad I’m no stupid builder, I’m a lurker, you know. I won’t be playing this card for now, no matter how loud you scream “You IDIOT!!!” Twisted Evil .

Ordnance Grunt: another sold out card… too bad, but even way I think he’s overrated. Anyway, this troll is so tech for troll decks, as conditions can be recurred with Smiths and sometimes you’d rather having an extra troll than a sitting-there-doing-nothing condition. One copy wouldn’t hurt my deck, would it?

Picket Denizen: although it’s sold out, it comes in starters, so no big deal. Nice ability to save my precious Prowling Orcs from death. But I think we’ll find no room for this one here, so we’ll be deciding on which 3-costed-lurker-dude to use in this deck.

Unforgiving Depths: when I know I’m going to face solo-Sméagol, I always include 2 Watchful Orc. This condition seems to help me much more than the orc, as he costs 4 and is no lurker. On the other hand, he can be recurred easier than the condition itself. Well, we’ll probably want one of this card too, just to enforce our path strategy (I must remember you that this shadow is going to be paired to Gandalf/Gondor, which has access to both Traveled Leader and Andúril Flame of the West, not to mention Well-Traveled and Pathfinder, so the shadow site-controller won’t really need to be a major theme here).

That pretty much includes all the relevant cards for my deck. Others are either not-so-good cards, or are not lurkers, or are out of theme.

Those still with me will now have some fun changing a pre-Bloodlines deck into a pre-Hunters one! Very Happy

c) Ins and Outs

Why don’t we start with is pretty much obvious?

Outs:
Cave Troll’s Hammer, Unwieldy Cudgel x2
Beastly Olog-Hai

Orc Skulker x4
Grima, Wormtongue


Why Beastly Olog-Hai? Because I don’t want this to be a Troll deck, it’s a lurker one, and the trolls are here for smashing faces and for joining the twilight party. I’m inclined to use only the Cave Troll, as he interacts nicely with the lurkers. Sometimes it’s a viable strategy to make each lurker win his or her skirmish, since opposing fellowship is hard to die, just to see my fellowship riding easily to 9. I’ve done it more times than I can remember. So I’ll stick with 2 copies of the toiling troll for now, with no hammer.

Orc Skulker is being dropped just because he’s too weak, and I play no events here. No other reason. Of course he throws my curve to the 3rd slot, and that may not be a very smart move, but let’s see where we’re getting to before bringing this very-little lurker back.

8 free slots… here we go…

Ins:
Chamber Patrol
Enemy upon Enemy
Howling Orc x4
Ordnance Grunt
Unforgiving Depths


This should make both the minion and the condition count of the deck raise, as it will contain no possession and no splashy card from now on. All the cards we wanted to include are in the list, which is pretty good. How many times have you faced a deck you wanted 45 cards, while you only needed 30 for the pair side? Well, in this article we’re just covering the shadow part of the build, so I won’t focus on this kind of problem.

Okay kids, this is where things start to get bad. We’ve put good cards in, bad cards out. Easy, right? Not really… Those still with me will recognize that this is the main ability of being a deck-builder…

d) Final Checking

This is where you grow from a 9 years old child to a true deck-builder. This is where you know yourself, know your cards, know your deck, know your strategy, know your Meta, and put this knowledge all at work into one single direction. You search for the maximum synergy possible, while still hoping to be as much loyal to the theme as you can. Focus, my friends (who are brave readers that can stand the fifth page of my Word .doc), Focus is key here.

Let’s take a look at how the deck is right now:

Goblin Hordes x4
Demoralized x4
Enemy upon Enemy
Unforgiving Depths
Great Cost
Cave Troll of Moria, Savage Menace x2
Ordnance Grunt
Orc Smith x2
Rallying Orc x3
Troll’s Keyward, Keeper of the Beast
Howling Orc x4
Prowling Orc x4
Orc Strategist x4
Emboldened Orc
Chamber Patrol
Total: 34

It was no big deal to come the long way up to here. From now on, I’ll take decisions based on my experience, my Meta, my way of playing, and my wishes about this deck. From now on much more people will disagree with me, and I want you guys to remember that it’s so natural for it to happen that I’m more than expecting your thoughts as answers to this post. Okay, on with the changes…

First of all, the condition count is high for my like: 11, I find it that I really could remove one of those. Someone will get cut (and therefore some strategy or objective will as well), I just don’t know who. Not Goblin Hordes and Demoralized for sure, which leaves us with 3 options. Why don’t we look closely at each of the three here?

1 - Enemy upon Enemy
Condition - Support area
Regroup: Spot an Orc lurker minion to stack that minion here.
Shadow: Remove a burden to play a Lurker minion stacked here as if it were played from your hand. That minion is twilight cost is -3.


Head goes processing the card: condition, low cost, not unique, no spotting requirement, hand extension for the cost of burdens, removes minions during regroup (which allows easier doubles), reduces twilight cost while playing, good for late game, my deck needs no burdens, my deck adds no burdens, only lurkers can be stacked, my deck is about lurkers, I have good hand extension, hand extension is never too much, sometimes I’d rather having dudes on discard for goblin hordes that trigger on the path than on this card that triggers on burdens since my deck controls path but no burdens, if I could manage both burdens and path I could use both Hordes and this one then having an outstanding hand extension, if I could manage everything I’d need not to play cards to have fun, Focus.

Decision: it’s out, for now… but I still feel curious about the use of it in my deck… someday I’ll run a copy to see what happens.

Outs:
Enemy upon Enemy


0 – Unforgiving Depths
Condition - Support area
While you can spot 3 underground sites, each Orc Orc gains muster.
Shadow: Discard this card from play and spot an Orc minion to replace the fellowships current site with an underground site from your adventure deck.

Head goes wild again: condition, no cost, no spotting requirement, not unique, first part good for allowing much needed card-flow, second part great for controlling the path, which is good for setting next site’s bomb, unuseful for the site it is played unless I need a high costed site but I need a cheap one text, or if I need a non-Underground text to trigger and then I need an Underground planted, no real argument against this card other than sometimes I get all the site-control I want, I can’t imagine how I’ll benefit from 10 muster orcs when I have no cards in hand, I’ve been locked up sometimes with free-peoples useless cards, when I get more than 2 musters in table my opponent is going to stop anyway, muster will only help with useless cards therefore, my fellowship can sometimes find itself with useless cards, if I draw many hordes early game I can discard one orc just to be able to draw more cards, muster is good, I’ve always loved muster, my deck has no muster both in free-peoples and shadow, my deck HAD no muster, now it has.

Decision: stay… but one copy, no more than that, as it can be decisive card against site-controlling fellowships and that’s all. Other than that, good card for mustering, and I like muster for its card flowing enforcement.

0 – Great Cost
Condition • Support Area
At the start of each skirmish involving an Orc minion, you may spot 6 companions to
exert a companion in that skirmish.
Shadow: Discard this condition and spot an Orc minion to make the Free Peoples player place a card from his or her hand on top of his or her draw deck.


Head is just so unstoppable: condition, no cost, no spotting requirement, no draw back, great for 6 companions hate, my deck ahs much 6 companion hate in the form of Demoralized, this card along with demoralized is such a pain, this card along with swarms is such a hard decision for the free-peoples player, I like to put pressure on opponent’s mind, pain cards are nice in this sense, thought situations lead to more mistakes and bad decisions taken, second part kind of useless against most fellowships, this card is such a bomb, I love that card, this deck needs one copy of it, why am I even wondering about to remove it?

Decision: stay… not in a Forced March deck, but this is no Forced March deck, this is my lurker swarm, and I love this card too much not to use it, some of you will find it useless and I encourage you to try to convince me. Sometimes I feel like removing it, but I like it too much to do it myself without a good argument to back my decision up…

Now that the conditions are closed, and we have one free slot for the rest of the deck, we have to take a closer look at an orientation I gave it a while before… why don’t we count the minion twilight cost curve?

2 – 2
3 – 12
4 – 6

This is though… I’ve made the minion curve go up searching for more power, and the price I paid was removing the very cheap ones. Let’s take the pros and cons about this decision.

Pros: when I get myself all those conditions and no roaming, I’ll want to draw an 8 strength minion instead of a 5 strength one. Cost won’t matter, as I’ll have twilight generation and enough pool to start the party anyway. If this minion can get even bigger we’re in the best of the worlds, how smart we are to decide this way!!!

Cons: when I get stuck with low pool and many conditions to play, I want a 0 costed minion. As it just won’t happen soon, I’ll have to deal with the lower cost I can find. If I have access to a 2 costed lurker, why not use it? Will my deck really need or want this extra-strength? How stupid we are to decide the other way, we’ll get stuck with minions and conditions and we won’t be able to play either of them! Let’s make our hordes and demoralized drops easier, let’s reduce the minion’s twilight cost! Without conditions in table, who cares about the minions’ strength?

Hell… this is not a decision to judge here, as I already mentioned that it’s my personal way of building my deck… I just want you, my hero reader that are still with me, to notice how important this whole process is when you go build your deck next time. If you’re convinced about it, I feel okay to finish the article right now… Wink kidding, let’s go until the end now, non-stop…

I feel like keeping the curve the way it is, but I can’t stop thinking about my main conditions’ spotting requirements. Perhaps I’ll nee to find a mix of 2 and 3 costed lurkers. Before bloodlines it was easy, just gather all lurkers and play. Now we have options, and those are scary, aren’t they?

Then, I guess I’ll be adding 3 of the 2-cost Orc Skulker. This fits the whole Enemy upon Enemy left before, but still requires me to remove 2 other cards.

Ins:
Orc Skulker x3


Another nasty question now: what to cut off the deck right now?

Answer? Focus. Focus on the deck’s main theme, focus on the deck’s main Meta counters, focus on the shadow’s main weakness, focus on the deck’s tech and center pieces, and focus on its synergy with my fellowship.

Until now, I have not taken into consideration the choice between Howling Orc and Picket Denizen. The first just seemed better, while the last seemed tech. Which one will my deck need?

Oooooh, wait a second Evil or Very Mad , I just threw at you some other problem without solving the previous…. Hey, but isn’t deck-building all about it? You go deep in one aspect, but then you realize you have some other stuff to look at.

My deck needs wound prevention. It screams for it, as my experience has shown me some couple of times. Ent players love to throw terrible and evil at my prowling orc just so they can feel safe again, resting on a mountain of twilight as usual. The same goes for annoying Rohan wounding decks, and the tech Shadowplay decks that are running around and causing many grown-ups to cry for their mammas. Howling Orc seems like a fine addition, but perhaps the picket denizen would do better at covering one of this deck’s weaknesses. Sure, why not?

Ins:
Picket Denizen x2


So, now we have to cut 4 slots of cards from our deck… hey? Where am I leading you, that’s my deck! Sorry, jealous moment shut off.

To keep the theme on, perhaps I should remove chamber patrol. Its uses are obvious, but my deck should be able to cover all of its uses. No wound in first region? Why would I want it? I often do absolutely nothing in first region! Undergrounds in region 2? Thanks, but I work hard to have it, you know, and one shadow turn won’t make a difference. They kill this little orc, either they just stop and he makes no difference at all. The extra-strength is the reason he’s in, but it only happens in region 3. I won’t hold him in my hand until then, and I’d rather fetch a lurker with my hordes in order to my combo to work. Some of you will say that I’m an idiot of leaving this bonus, and that it could win me games, and I must confess I feel like you’re right. The thing is, this card won’t make it through my personal quality control, you know what I mean? I know myself quite enough to notice that this card should clog my hand like evil, that I wouldn’t play normally if I had him in hand, that I would rather have a 2-costed dude that does nothing then a stronger one that has spotting requirements and sees real uses in region 3 only. It may seem like a great card, and it is. I just don’t feel like playing this card. I want my conditions to go to the ground ASAP, and if I drew only this minion I’d be so frustrated that I would not want to bring him back via hordes again. Another example would be when I drew him at shadow of site 6. do I play it so I could grab it again at 7 or do I keep it and go for the surprise effect? I know me, I’d instinctively go for the surprise effect, and this would end up clogging my hand. I wouldn’t doubt if I held it from 5 through 7 just to give my crowd that bonus, but then I clogged my hand for a bonus to a crowd I may not have been able to throw at my opponent. Though decision, but based on my way of playing, and the needs of this deck to go through it, this card is cut.

Outs:
Chamber Patrol


So, we’ll have to drop 3 more… as I already added the Picket Denizens, it’s now much easier, isn’t it?

Outs:
Howling Orc x4


Why 4 you ask? Well, for a base dude like him, I find it better having none than some. He’s not like the emboldened orc, he’s too vanilla for that, and one copy won’t make a difference.

Therefore we still have one room to finally close it, let’s put the card list together along with the changes so we can think together in one splashy card to make it:

Goblin Hordes x4
Demoralized x4
Unforgiving Depths
Great Cost
Cave Troll of Moria, Savage Menace x2
Ordnance Grunt
Orc Smith x2
Orc Skulker x3
Rallying Orc x3
Troll’s Keyward, Keeper of the Beast
Picket Denizen x2
Prowling Orc x4
Orc Strategist x4
Emboldened Orc
Total: 33

The orcs curve is about:

2 – 5
3 – 10
4 – 5
Much better then our previous one, huh?

Okay, so we still get 20 orcs as before, so the final card slot ended up being the one we dropped Enemy upon Enemy. This card slot should be anything at this point. The minion count is great for me, 20 orcs and 3 trolls. 10 support cards, all of them conditions, is a great number, but as the minion count is excellent I’d accept adding more support cards. A splash of a different culture is always welcome for me, as I love the surprise effect of “wait a minute, you just played that in this deck?”… too bad this deck misses a good one now that tower block is rotating out… before grima I used to use desert lord, for located, and so key, exertions, that lead to easier kills when the big dudes reached the skirmish phase. My very first version featured Gollum, Dark as Darkness as a way to get more exertions if needed, or even kill the ring-bearer in the regroup phase if they couldn’t handle it in the middle of all those many minions. At worst, he put the burdens to some use during skirmish phase, which will never hurt when you have prowling orc. Somehow I feel like adding Gollum back to the mixture, but I’d like to keep this deck more straight-forward. Then, let’s just take a look at how Meta is acting nowadays, which possibilities do we have, then we can decide our last card.

If we think condition discarding will be more harmful than ever, we must add another Orc Smith. He even helps our new-fighter Ordnance Grunt to be more effective. This is a valid inclusion, and I’d be happy with that one.

If we think there’ll be those pensky conditions out there, we must consider the possibility to use dread and despair. While I don’t like this card in a deck where Isengard Underling is not listed, I must confess that sometimes I just wanted this card to be there.

If we think that 6 companions fellowship will be the rule, and not the exception, we should add another Great Cost. That card hurts so much that it’s beautiful to see. Even our 5 strength little guys will find their exertion against an army, isn’t it fun?

If we think wounding will rule standard, we must include a third copy of Picket Denizen.

If we think that site manipulation will be a major care for all players, we must add a second copy of Unforgiving Depths.

If we want a fun and nice way to surprise our opponents, why not bring back the Dark as Darkness Gollum?

So there you have it, our 6 options for a single slot in the deck. I won’t take the option of cutting one card for both sides, as I’m not discussing the free-peoples side here, but I’d consider this option as the 7th.

While you go and think of this, why don’t we move to the next step and see how it can help us? Those still with me shall remember something I told you at the very beginning of this article…

e) Hunters Speculation

Remember that huge Troll? Oh boy, now I want a troll deck… Hehe, just kidding, in this deck we can find room for that troll too, just add another Troll’s Keyward and drop 2 other stuff while adding a copy of Mountain Troll. But I won’t mind changing my deck because of the card I don’t have. I’m willing to change my deck based on what I think that will be a major theme in standard from Hunters on. This way my deck will start Meta-countering it as soon as possible, and when new cards get to tournament scene it will be used to play against that strategy.

That said, what do I think will be good in Hunters that will make me decide my last card?

Ins:
Picket Denizen (3rd copy)


Yes, have you seen the elven stuff? G-R-E-A-T… tomorrow we’ll see a new Legolas, most probably, so I’ll close this article around here, wishing that you never ever build an elven archery deck, because I’ll be very mad at you…

For those of you still with me, thanks for the ride and here’s our lurker swarm shadow:

Goblin Hordes x4
Demoralized x4
Unforgiving Depths
Great Cost
Cave Troll of Moria, Savage Menace x2
Ordnance Grunt
Orc Smith x2
Orc Skulker x3
Rallying Orc x3
Troll’s Keyward, Keeper of the Beast
Picket Denizen x3
Prowling Orc x4
Orc Strategist x4
Emboldened Orc
Total: 34

In my next Article, I want to talk about Rohan, but who knows? Wink

Until then, may you open a Mount Doom ASAP to trade me, because I’ll I need it for this very deck I just showed you.

Cheers,
Winston “Cleston” Oyadomari
- "If I die, your deck will crumble!"
Gandalf (any of them)
Cleston
Posted: Thu Oct 20, 2005 12:46 pm
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 110 Location: Brasil
hey people,

I'm waiting for any comments, anything, come on, give me your thoughts on why I deserve a 3... Crying or Very sad , I'll be glad to follow the discussion up...
- "If I die, your deck will crumble!"
Gandalf (any of them)
hblika
Posted: Sun Oct 30, 2005 9:50 am
Joined: 20 Jul 2005 Posts: 287 Location: Norway
I'm sure the article is very good, if I only had the patience to read it in full. This is certainly a case where an article series had been a better idea. Honestly I lost interest after the first third, and scrolled to the end to see the final result of your new lurker swarm deck.

I actually hoped you had found a way to include the Mountain Troll in there, since the start of your article indicates that this is what you were going to do, and I actually was a little disappointed to see that it was not the case.
I'm not stupid. I'm just unlucky when I'm thinking.
Cleston
Posted: Mon Oct 31, 2005 12:10 pm
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 110 Location: Brasil
hblika wrote:
I'm sure the article is very good, if I only had the patience to read it in full. This is certainly a case where an article series had been a better idea. Honestly I lost interest after the first third, and scrolled to the end to see the final result of your new lurker swarm deck.

I actually hoped you had found a way to include the Mountain Troll in there, since the start of your article indicates that this is what you were going to do, and I actually was a little disappointed to see that it was not the case.


thanks for your review! it's always good to know how much people care to read... Laughing

I mentioned the troll as a preview from the hunters, but in no way I'd include it, since when i started writing there were just too few hutners spoilers to justify a hunters card in a standard deck. this is a standard deck, and that was the main reason. sorry to disappoint you, but I did a section just for speculation on hunters cards. perhaps it would be ncie to update it with the actual hunters cards we got this last weekend. i shall do it when i get the time.

you say it was better to have a series, but i find a series to be a bit spliced, then i would need people to vote me 3 or 4 times, and that wouldn't be a good idea in therms of contest. but for the future, yes, i shall do it.
- "If I die, your deck will crumble!"
Gandalf (any of them)
sickofpalantirs
Posted: Sun Mar 26, 2006 4:06 pm
Joined: 23 Mar 2006 Posts: 7750 Location: somwhere, over the rainbow way up high. There's a land that I heard of once in a lullaby.
pretty good article not much feedback compared to some must not hav been much competition
Cleston
Posted: Thu Mar 30, 2006 5:08 pm
Joined: 10 Aug 2005 Posts: 110 Location: Brasil
sickofpalantirs wrote:
pretty good article not much feedback compared to some must not hav been much competition


dude, sorry, I didn’t get what you meant here... Confused
- "If I die, your deck will crumble!"
Gandalf (any of them)

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