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Felipe Musco
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:44 pm
Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 2434 Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
I actually don’t like Ryusei in this type of deck very much... Hard to "pop" him. Also, if you’re reffering to Cryoclasm, I think it should be SB. If it was Pyroclasm, than definitely MD. I think it’s missing Magnivore to wrap things up, and the Barbarian is only THAT nice with the Kiki-Jiki lock... Also, Rumbling Slum can be nice, too, since it’s rather cheap AND survives Wildfires.
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La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 12:54 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
I fully intended cyroclasm to be MD. The only deck in standard that’s good and doesn’t have blue or white is gruul beats, which needs to have it’s mana around, and can be stalled out with some destruction and then ryusei.

Slum is good in wildfires, true, but he’s not really good here. Wildfires isn’t good in an LD deck because they never have four land to lose. If they did, they could have already played out the board and have real threats in play.

The problem with cutter and kiki is that they both cost five... that means it would be a while to get them out.

Vore isn’t too necessary... a kill is a kill and ryusei is a kill. Truth be told, if they have no land even llanowar elves can kill.
BrianBoitano
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:08 pm
Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 124 Location: Houston, TX
[arrogant comment]only good deck without white and blue is Gruul beats, huh? What about Golgari sacrifice? Huh? Huh? [/arrogant comment] Razz
hehe Anyways I do agree that Cryoclasm is a good MD, by the following logic:
Cryoclasm MD, Vs white/blue: Keep it in all 3 games, never hurts you
Cryoclasm MD, Vs non white/blue: Game 1 dead card, game 2 and 3 sideboarded out, hurt you once
Cryoclasm SB, Vs white/blue: Sideboarded in 2nd and 3rd game, missed 1 game with it, so hurt you once
Cryoclasm SB, Vs non white/blue: never hurts you
So as you can see, in each case (MD vs SB), in one case it never hurts you and in one case it hurt you once, so the deciding factor is the ratio of decks with W/U to those without. If that ratio is heavy in the W/U side in your metagame, it’s your best interest to MD it. If that ratio is slim on the W/U side in your metagame, it’s in your best interest to SB it.
Hmm, Vore is cheaper and sometimes the same size as Ryusi, while Ryusi is more expensive and always big. This also is a metagame decision, as if people play things that can trade with Ryusi then he’s more valuable, if they can’t kill him then as Felipe said he won’t pop, and Vore will be better.
Hope this helps, although I didn’t really back one or the other definitively Mr. Green
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La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 3:17 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
I mean meta by the book. B/W is the best, meaning it helps. G/R is second, it doesn’t. Heartbeat is fourth, it does. URzatron/Vore/other fires stuff is third, and it helps. 3/4 of the top decks have it, not to mention sea stompy, firemane control, and glare, three decks in the top ten (at least to me). They all have targets for cyro.
Felipe Musco
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 5:43 pm
Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 2434 Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
I think we should get back on track. This thread’s supposed to help Grail’s deck, not build a new one! Razz
Although I’m not sure WHAT I could suggest to improve it... The pieces are all so... unreplaceable...
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La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:00 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
I added another list to the main post. Thoughts on the second list vs. the first?

Edit: Thoughts on scorched rusulka?
BrianBoitano
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:29 pm
Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 124 Location: Houston, TX
Hmm. I just realized something. You’re splashing blue pretty much just for Sky Hussar. You have Rewind, but that’s double blue. Maybe you could utilize this splash a bit more? Clone (too bad using Clone on Kiki doesn’t work without Mirror Gallery), Court Hussar, Daring Apprentice (not very easy to do with the UU, BUT it’s really nice with Kiki once you get them out), Keiga, the Tide Star (expensive, but worth it to use Kiki to gain control of TWO creatures permanently), Puppeteer (to re-use Kiki), Sage Aven, Teardrop Kami (combos with Kiki for infinite sacrificed Kamis, if you had some coming into-play or "tap an untapped creature:" ability, this would be useful, but right now it isn’t), Kiki + Vedalken Dismisser means your opponent loses a creature a turn, and can’t play them again or else they’ll draw nothing but THAT creature for the rest of the game Very Happy, Vigean Graftmage can mean more utility with Kiki, but is kind of delicate.
Well, those are all the "Standard blue creatures" that I found to be good with Kiki in your deck, I ignored most with UU in the casting cost, since you’re only splashing at the moment. Some are worth considering, so let me know what you think.
The other option is of course choose a different combo creature than Sky Hussar for the win, then you could cut blue entirely and your mana base would be more stable. If needed, I could look for some R/W combo creature for ya, but that’s if you would like me to Razz.
Edit: Scorched Rusalka? Decent with Kiki, decent as a chump blocker, so he’s good with me.
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Felipe Musco
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:35 pm
Joined: 18 May 2006 Posts: 2434 Location: Florianópolis, SC, Brasil
I don’t think Scorched Rusalka would fit nicely into this deck... I liked the first build better for mana-base purposes, I don’t think Llanowar Elves are really THAT necessary. You made the right choice about dropping the Izzet Cronarch + Rewind combo, though, didn’t like it one bit. You could add in Minamo, School at Water’s Edge, for helping untap Kiki-Jiki, and you could alter the deck concept a bit for stalling opponents, by adding in that creature that taps all other creatures as it comes into play (can’t remember the name right now, sorry). This way, you tap Kiki-Jiki during your opponent’s turn and tap all of his creatures! You could try and combo this with Exhaustion, but maybe this is too much?
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BrianBoitano
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 6:58 pm
Joined: 16 Jun 2006 Posts: 124 Location: Houston, TX
Felipe Musco wrote:
...and you could alter the deck concept a bit for stalling opponents, by adding in that creature that taps all other creatures as it comes into play (can’t remember the name right now, sorry).

Are you talking about Thundermare? As far as I can tell, this is the only creature in Standard that does this. It’s an interesting idea, but I think for Kiki-Jiki, there are better creatures that don’t cost as much (or cost the same, like Keiga). I like the Minamo addition, it doesn’t hurt you, so why not?
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La_Sin_Grail
Posted: Thu Jul 13, 2006 7:15 pm
Joined: 14 Aug 2005 Posts: 806 Location: Maryland
I like the minamo idea a lot. I looked at daring apprentice, I was just afraid of double blue when blue is only a splash for hussar.

I’ll also explor dismisser. Thanks, guys, you’ve been a big help so far. Keep up the good work!

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